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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: lillian66 on Thursday 10 September 09 13:14 BST (UK)

Title: Dunkirk
Post by: lillian66 on Thursday 10 September 09 13:14 BST (UK)
I think I know the answer to this will be NO but thought I would ask anyway.

My grandfather was at Dunkirk and his return date to UK was 28/5/1940.  He talked about being brought home on a small destroyer.

Is there anyway I could find out which ship/boat picked him up?  Or at least maybe narrow it down?

Thanks
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: jds1949 on Thursday 10 September 09 16:05 BST (UK)
17,804 men were evacuated from Dunkirk on the 28th May. There were approximately 39 destroyers used at various times during the whole of Operation Dynamo.

An excellent account of the whole evacuation from your point of view would be:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UqEOScq-AjUC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=destroyers+at+dunkirk&source=bl&ots=oBaNQTNRZM&sig=Yx_z8iwyhoz6jokkjPKuc-p6CXA&hl=en&ei=rhKpSpKiEInSjAe_hrDsBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9

which names a lot of the destroyers involved. [If the link doesn't work - google "Destroyers at Dunkirk" and click on the one which has "Google Book Result" in its listing.

Good luck,

jds1949
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: paulcheall on Tuesday 01 November 11 19:01 GMT (UK)
My Dad was brought back on the Lady of Mann on 30 May:

"There by the side of the jetty, a ship was waiting to be loaded with human cargo. We walked along the wooden pier and back came the planes - it seemed never ending - trying to bomb our ship but without success. We walked along for about a half-mile to the ship we would be boarding. Miraculously, the Mole was still intact, but there was a six-foot gap in the planking where a bomb had gone through without exploding and loose planks had been put across. Another thirty yards and we came to our ship. At the top end of a gangway stood an officer, counting soldiers as they went aboard.

The ship was a ferry ship called The Lady of Mann (how could I forget that name?). How lucky we considered ourselves to be; out of all those thousands of men, we were being given the opportunity to be evacuated. It was almost impossible for men of the same companies to stay together, but that was no consequence at a time like this.

The ferry was fast becoming packed with grateful lads. The Captain would know how many men the ship could carry, but God alone knows what would have happened had a bomb hit us! I was lucky enough to be on deck to see what was happening and it must have been very claustrophobic down below deck. I kept my eyes on the nearest Carley float in case the worst happened. The fact that we had managed to get on a boat was no guarantee that we would reach England because the Luftwaffe was doing its utmost to prevent us. As the ship was filling up, a Padre came and stood on a ladder, called for silence and prayed for our deliverance to England. At last, packed like sardines, the ship started to tremble and, so very slowly, we pulled away from the Mole - it was 1800 hrs."

Being a little taller than many of the lads enabled me to have a panoramic view of the whole length of the beach - how many of those boys would get back to England and how many would be killed or taken prisoner? The beach was as crowded as ever; then suddenly I saw a German fighter plane skimming above them, firing cannons - it reminded me of a row of dominoes being knocked down from one end.

You can read more at http://www.fightingthrough.co.uk/#/prologue-to-war-diary/4541825257
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Bluebell66 on Monday 27 October 14 22:59 GMT (UK)
Thank you for posting this. My great grandfather Tom Woods was the captain of the Lady of Mann. Lovely to hear a first hand account of what it was like at Dunkirk. He made several trips, saved thousands of lives and we are all very proud of him. I know that the ship was packed well beyond capacity on some trips.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: barryd on Monday 27 October 14 23:57 GMT (UK)
My father was at Dunkirk with the Durham Light Infantry. Later on during the War he saw a notice for volunteers for the RASC as the Army needed office staff to organize in the background. He was accepted but at El Alamein he was delivering supplies in army lorries and had hearing problems from the shelling. So much for pen pushing. Injured playing football he was in the background in the organizing of the Italy Campaign and was given the Italy Star but was not near the battlefield.

German War Crimes were fairly frequent at Dunkirk. Some of their leaders were caught after the war.

I would imagine there are no lists of which soldier sailed in which ship crossing back over the channel.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: paulcheall on Tuesday 28 October 14 12:10 GMT (UK)
It is nice to hear about your Dad. I would love to post some info about him and a few photos if you have any, on my web site at www.fightingthrough.co.uk. My dad and Britain owes him a debt of gratitude.

Paul

Thank you for posting this. My great grandfather Tom Woods was the captain of the Lady of Mann. Lovely to hear a first hand account of what it was like at Dunkirk. He made several trips, saved thousands of lives and we are all very proud of him. I know that the ship was packed well beyond capacity on some trips.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: paulcheall on Tuesday 28 October 14 12:16 GMT (UK)
Dad often mentions the DLI and RASC in his memoirs, in particular paying tribute to the important role in ther war played by the RASC. Re lists of soldiers boarding the Dunkirk craft, Dad certainly implies this was not done. Many soldiers got separated from their units and when they all got back, to Cardiff for many of them, they had to be sorted out carefullt to make sure there were no infiltrators amongst them.

Paul

My father was at Dunkirk with the Durham Light Infantry. Later on during the War he saw a notice for volunteers for the RASC as the Army needed office staff to organize in the background. He was accepted but at El Alamein he was delivering supplies in army lorries and had hearing problems from the shelling. So much for pen pushing. Injured playing football he was in the background in the organizing of the Italy Campaign and was given the Italy Star but was not near the battlefield.

German War Crimes were fairly frequent at Dunkirk. Some of their leaders were caught after the war.

I would imagine there are no lists of which soldier sailed in which ship crossing back over the channel.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: GrahamSimons on Tuesday 28 October 14 21:27 GMT (UK)
A distant relative was decorated for some of the planning and organisation work behind Dynamo. While I've found the paperwok behind this, I rather hoped to find some documents at Kew about his role but struggled to find any detailed information. I had much less luck than with, for example, War Diaries for the struggle at Monte Cassino. My hope is that there is plenty of original material somewhere which will one day come to light. On the other hand I would imagine that the various ships involved were more concerned to get men home than to keep records of their passengers: and with the army units getting detached and mixed, their War Diaries won't be of much help.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 28 October 14 22:21 GMT (UK)
There's a small article about the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company boats at Dunkirk:
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/manxboats1940.html
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Bluebell66 on Wednesday 29 October 14 09:06 GMT (UK)
i am new to this site and am not sure how it works. If you give me your email address I can forward a few things of interest.
I have inherited lots of memorabilia relating to my great grandfather. He was in his sixties when he took the Lady of Mann to Dunkirk and went for days without any sleep. I have a list of crew but no passenger lists, am sure it would have been too chaotic for that. Probably the most interesting thing we have is copies of his daily letters home to his wife. The originals are now in the archives of the Manx Museum. Regards, Sarah
It is nice to hear about your Dad. I would love to post some info about him and a few photos if you have any, on my web site at www.fightingthrough.co.uk. My dad and Britain owes him a debt of gratitude.

Paul

Thank you for posting this. My great grandfather Tom Woods was the captain of the Lady of Mann. Lovely to hear a first hand account of what it was like at Dunkirk. He made several trips, saved thousands of lives and we are all very proud of him. I know that the ship was packed well beyond capacity on some trips.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Wednesday 29 October 14 09:34 GMT (UK)
Dunkirk is my specialist area. If anyone wants to know anything about Dunkirk just ask. I have over 400 books on the subject and close to 1,000 unit war diaries covering the BEFs time in France between Sept 39 and June 1940.

Going back to the original poster. Do you know the unit he was with and what Port he docked at? I may be able to narrow it down with this info. Sadly, I suspect due to the chaotic times, there are no nominal rolls that I know of that list men to evacuation craft.

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Wednesday 29 October 14 09:39 GMT (UK)
Bluebell....

Lady of Mann evacuated a total of 2,906 soldiers as follows:

She arrived at Folkstone at 2212hrs on the 31st May 1940 and unloaded 774 troops and then sailed along the coast to Dover and unloaded a further 870. She then docked at Dover at 0600hrs delivering 18 troops and finally she was back at Dover again at 0710hrs on the 4th June and unloaded 1,244 troops.

It's worth pointing out that the Germans marched into Dunkirk on the 4th June when the finally rear guard was told to lay down their arms, I suspect most of her last cargo would have been French troops.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Wednesday 29 October 14 09:42 GMT (UK)
Further reading shows she also evacuated troops from the West coast of France after Dunkirk surrendered so without checking I suspect she would have taken part in Operation Cycle and Operation Aerial as well as Operation Dynamo.

I have just found a picture of her in France loaded with troops. Let me know if you'd like to see it.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Bluebell66 on Wednesday 29 October 14 09:46 GMT (UK)
Further reading shows she also evacuated troops from the West coast of France after Dunkirk surrendered so without checking I suspect she would have taken part in Operation Cycle and Operation Aerial as well as Operation Dynamo.

I have just found a picture of her in France loaded with troops. Let me know if you'd like to see it.

Would love to see it thanks. There was a photo amongst my great grandfather's belongings that fits this description but there was nothing written on it and we were unsure if it was the Lady or where it was taken. Can you post photos on this site?
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Wednesday 29 October 14 10:54 GMT (UK)
There's a couple of Post Dunkirk pictures of her in this thread below, I know it's Wikipedia but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lady_of_Mann

I'm just working on the Brest pics
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Wednesday 29 October 14 11:03 GMT (UK)
The pictures I posted on WW2Talk have disappeared when the forum changed service provider - You can see a couple of others in the link below

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/12917-1940-dunkirk-france-belgium-related-pictures/page-7

See posts 207 and 210
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: paulcheall on Monday 03 November 14 16:33 GMT (UK)
Sarah - I think the messages below got a bit mixed up but if you are sayong you will send me some material please forward to
Mod comment. Email address removed as per Rootschat anti spam policy. Please use Rootschat Pm system to exchange details instead
Many thanks
Paul
PS Please note when posting a reply to anything you need to position your cursor at the very start of the note to avoid typing into the middle of the previous note

i am new to this site and am not sure how it works. If you give me your email address I can forward a few things of interest.
I have inherited lots of memorabilia relating to my great grandfather. He was in his sixties when he took the Lady of Mann to Dunkirk and went for days without any sleep. I have a list of crew but no passenger lists, am sure it would have been too chaotic for that. Probably the most interesting thing we have is copies of his daily letters home to his wife. The originals are now in the archives of the Manx Museum. Regards, Sarah
It is nice to hear about your Dad. I would love to post some info about him and a few photos if you have any, on my web site at www.fightingthrough.co.uk. My dad and Britain owes him a debt of gratitude.

Paul

Thank you for posting this. My great grandfather Tom Woods was the captain of the Lady of Mann. Lovely to hear a first hand account of what it was like at Dunkirk. He made several trips, saved thousands of lives and we are all very proud of him. I know that the ship was packed well beyond capacity on some trips.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: lillian66 on Wednesday 12 November 14 20:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks to everyone for your posts.

From his service record here is what I can make out.  He was originally a driver with the RASC and went out with the BEF on 24/9/1939.  His record suggests that after some leave to the UK he returned to France on 30/4/1940 and was posted to 2nd Super Heavy Battery.  He returned home on 28/5/1940 which I assume is the date he was evacuated from Dunkirk.  He was then posted to 17th Motor Coach Company stationed in "Maben"?? Cant make out this word so any pointers appreciated.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Thursday 13 November 14 08:45 GMT (UK)
I
Thanks to everyone for your posts.

From his service record here is what I can make out.  He was originally a driver with the RASC and went out with the BEF on 24/9/1939.  His record suggests that after some leave to the UK he returned to France on 30/4/1940 and was posted to 2nd Super Heavy Battery.  He returned home on 28/5/1940 which I assume is the date he was evacuated from Dunkirk.  He was then posted to 17th Motor Coach Company stationed in "Maben"?? Cant make out this word so any pointers appreciated.

Thanks again

I have the 2 Super Heavy Battery War Diary covering this period but unfortunately nearly all of it is missing from the file. It only contains a few entries for March and the April and May months just contain Officer Field Returns.

Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Doodes on Monday 17 November 14 10:49 GMT (UK)
my Father was evacuated from Dunkirk, he was with the Royal Engineers date given was 31/5/1940, he was injured and then went to N .Africa and was injured again, finally being discharged due to wounds in 1944.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Monday 17 November 14 12:24 GMT (UK)
my Father was evacuated from Dunkirk, he was with the Royal Engineers date given was 31/5/1940, he was injured and then went to N .Africa and was injured again, finally being discharged due to wounds in 1944.

Do you know what Company he was in?
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Doodes on Monday 17 November 14 13:06 GMT (UK)
Hi

no i dont i'm affraid , will have to have a dig around to see if i can find any other info
his name was Thomas Charles Louch

regards

Dave
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Monday 17 November 14 13:27 GMT (UK)
Hi

no i dont i'm affraid , will have to have a dig around to see if i can find any other info
his name was Thomas Charles Louch

regards

Dave

Apply for a copy of his service records from the MoD. They'll tell you all his units, postings etc
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Doodes on Monday 17 November 14 13:40 GMT (UK)
thanks for that, will see what info i can get
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: mtrimble on Tuesday 15 November 16 20:03 GMT (UK)
Dunkirk is my specialist area. If anyone wants to know anything about Dunkirk just ask. I have over 400 books on the subject and close to 1,000 unit war diaries covering the BEFs time in France between Sept 39 and June 1940.

Going back to the original poster. Do you know the unit he was with and what Port he docked at? I may be able to narrow it down with this info. Sadly, I suspect due to the chaotic times, there are no nominal rolls that I know of that list men to evacuation craft.

Cheers
Andy

Hi There,

I'm trying to find out names of Dunkirk survivors who were picked up by the Llanthony, the motor yacht owned by Lord Astor that was captained by Robert Timbrell. I realize this is really looking for a needle in a haystack as only 280 men were evacuated on the Llanthony. Any ideas are appreciated.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 15 November 16 20:17 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat Mr trimble.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: mtrimble on Tuesday 15 November 16 20:59 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat Mr trimble.


thank you!
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 15 November 16 21:28 GMT (UK)
Had an uncle escaped at Dunkirk myself. Strange no mention on here of the Highland Division abandoned by Churchill & still fighting Rommel at St Valery a fortnight after Dunkirk till the ammo' ran out. A long march into Germany & a bullet for the stragglers followed.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 15 November 16 22:56 GMT (UK)
The RASC    were  immobilising motorbikes in store depots in France during June 1940  by smashing them with Sledge Hammers.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Thursday 17 November 16 21:44 GMT (UK)
Dunkirk is my specialist area. If anyone wants to know anything about Dunkirk just ask. I have over 400 books on the subject and close to 1,000 unit war diaries covering the BEFs time in France between Sept 39 and June 1940.

Going back to the original poster. Do you know the unit he was with and what Port he docked at? I may be able to narrow it down with this info. Sadly, I suspect due to the chaotic times, there are no nominal rolls that I know of that list men to evacuation craft.

Cheers
Andy

Hi There,

I'm trying to find out names of Dunkirk survivors who were picked up by the Llanthony, the motor yacht owned by Lord Astor that was captained by Robert Timbrell. I realize this is really looking for a needle in a haystack as only 280 men were evacuated on the Llanthony. Any ideas are appreciated.

Many thanks.

Unfortunately not-I could probably tell you the trips she made and when and where she landed disembarked troops and how many but no names or nominal rolls. Nominal rolls would be like finding the Holy Grail ;)
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: mtrimble on Tuesday 29 November 16 15:15 GMT (UK)
Dunkirk is my specialist area. If anyone wants to know anything about Dunkirk just ask. I have over 400 books on the subject and close to 1,000 unit war diaries covering the BEFs time in France between Sept 39 and June 1940.

Going back to the original poster. Do you know the unit he was with and what Port he docked at? I may be able to narrow it down with this info. Sadly, I suspect due to the chaotic times, there are no nominal rolls that I know of that list men to evacuation craft.

Cheers
Andy

Hi There,

I'm trying to find out names of Dunkirk survivors who were picked up by the Llanthony, the motor yacht owned by Lord Astor that was captained by Robert Timbrell. I realize this is really looking for a needle in a haystack as only 280 men were evacuated on the Llanthony. Any ideas are appreciated.

Many thanks.

Unfortunately not-I could probably tell you the trips she made and when and where she landed disembarked troops and how many but no names or nominal rolls. Nominal rolls would be like finding the Holy Grail ;)

Okay. thanks for letting me know.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Dyingout on Tuesday 29 November 16 17:38 GMT (UK)
Dunkirk is my specialist area. If anyone wants to know anything about Dunkirk just ask. I have over 400 books on the subject and close to 1,000 unit war diaries covering the BEFs time in France between Sept 39 and June 1940.

Going back to the original poster. Do you know the unit he was with and what Port he docked at? I may be able to narrow it down with this info. Sadly, I suspect due to the chaotic times, there are no nominal rolls that I know of that list men to evacuation craft.

Cheers
Andy

Andy my Father was at Dunkirk He was paymasters clerk to one of the battalions of the Northamptons.
He would never open up about the horrors of the evacuation, until one drunken night in Ostend on one of the dunkirk vets pilgrimages. The scene was about eight vets sitting around a table of a Small estamine drinking brandy, then the conversation turned to where were you in 1940. the stories were pretty gruesome, it was then that someone said about the Massacres at Paradis and Wormhout and my father said to my suprise that he was so close to one of them that he heard the machine gun fire. Now this is over 45 years ago, and my mind has become a bit befuddled and can't remember the details. But after that night he opened up on a few occasions and the horrors that those guys went through was horrendous.
 He was on the beach at La Panne and was strafed by an ME 109. They all cowered down in the dunes, once the plane had gone he turned over and shook his driver who was next to him he was dead two bullets in his back, shook the other guy next on the other side same thing. Although a jovial man all my remembering part of my life, there always seemed to be some underlying sadness.
He was finally picked off the beach at La Panne on the second and disembarked from a Ramsgate trawler at Ramsgate on the morning of the 3rd. And he still had one up the spout when he handed over his .303.
My Mother who was newly married to him in September the year before, said that he suffered flashbacks and nightmares for months after that. 

Sadly we lost him just after his 65th birthday and the memories I wished I could have gleaned from him were gone forever.
Time to apply for his war records and find out where he was for the rest of his long war. I know he went to Scotland and Ireland just after Dunkirk but the rest is a mystery as service books were not filled in in time of war.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Drew5233 on Tuesday 29 November 16 22:52 GMT (UK)
He would have been with the 2nd or 5th Battalion.
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: Carolechiv on Wednesday 30 October 19 07:25 GMT (UK)
I am an amateur family historian, and I am going to attempt to write up my paternal history - I am in the research stage. Recently when interviewing very elderly relatives they referred to an Uncle (Ernest Green) as involved in the 'second wave' rescue at Dunkirk. Would someone be able to interpret that for me please. I don't know Ernest's regiment yet, I have sent for his marriage cert. hoping to get some details from that. Apparently he had a desk job as a clerk in the army, but 2 days before he was sent to Dunkirk he practised with a rifle. So he had next to no experience as an infantry man before experiencing combat.
Thank you
Title: Re: Dunkirk
Post by: stevej60 on Thursday 31 October 19 12:13 GMT (UK)
My uncle was killed on May 26th when C company 9th DLI,s HQ which was a school in Provin recieved a direct hit at 6AM.twenty plus men were killed in that one incident.they were buried in the local churchyard and moved into lille cemetery
Four were unidentified I.d like to think Bob
Was one of them.Fortunately all the Durham battalions got back reasonably intact including his Brother in law.