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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: SpudW on Wednesday 09 September 09 17:05 BST (UK)
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I'd be interested to know if anyone has any info relating to the John Mckenzie who married Margaret Nairn on December 25th, 1789, in Scotstarvit, Ceres, and whose descendent whould later found the well-known Edinburgh funeral parlour McKenzie and Millar.
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I haven't followed this up as he isn't in my direct line, but in my family tree I have a John McKenzie born c 1816 in Ceres - he may well be a relative of your John McKenzie.
(And even if I can't help you, perhaps you can help me!!!!!)
You can view my tree at www.johnsimpson.tribalpages.com
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Hi Spud. the fife death CD has 1 john mckenzie, ceres:
John Mckenzie buried 5/6/1829 age 72 consumption.
that would make his birth 1757 which would fit with the marriage you have.
Diddy
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Thanks for both your contributions! The death info sounds relevant: I wonder if there will be a death cert from that period? I would really like to establish his parentage.
As for the 1816 John McK, there's the outside possibility that he's the son of the son of my first post's John McK, though I have no concrete evidence unfortunately. I know that John McK (1)'s son - another John McK! - married Margaret Garland in Ceres in 1815, so there's every possibility they had a son in 1816 and, following naming patterns, called him after the grandfather - otherwise the first son I have is William in 1825 (my direct decendent). Thanks again!
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I am also descended from John McKenzie and Margaret Nairn's son John McKenzie who married Margaret Garland. I am descended from their son Alexander McKenzie who was born in Kettle in1829. I agree that it is likely that they had a son, John, born in 1816. John McKenzie and Margaret Garland appear to have followed the naming convention and John was the only child I could not find in my research. Margaret Garland's parents were likely David Garland and Agnes Haxton (married 1780 in Markinch). The oldest daughter of John McKenzie and Margaret Garland was Agnes (~1817), the next daughter Margaret (1819) and then the twin sons, David and William (1825).
My ancestor Alexander McKenzie was listed in the 1851 census as living in Drums, Falkland and I could not figure out why he moved to Falkland. If John McKenzie (1816) was his older brother and he lived in Falkland, this would help explain why Alexander moved to Falkland.
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hello
John McKenzie who married Margaret Garland. I am also descended from their son Alexander McKenzie
who was born in Kettle in1829?
.Alexander McKenzie marr 1st agnes fleming
2nd ann ritchie 1873
childrne born to 2nd marriage John ,Robert, Alexander b1879(my g/father) ,James ,Janet ,Annie
does this fit with what you have
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Hi,
Interesting to know you are related through the same line. Ann Ritchie and Alexander McKenzie were the parents of Annie Ritchie. Annie Ritchie was the mother of my grandfather - Alexander McKenzie Steele.
How are you related? Through the Fleming family or the Ritchie family? I am happy to share my research with you.
I have a picture of the McKenzie family in Vancouver, B.C., Canada in the 1930's. I wonder how they are related to all of us? I don't have any first names on the photo but would be happy to share it.
Regarding the earlier posts and John McKenzie (1792), info from the census (1851) shows that John was a limestone miner living in Kirkforthar Feus, Markinch. He was dead prior to the marriage of his son Alexander in 1860 according to the marriage certificate. Of note, I found a newspaper clipping in the historical society library in Edinburgh. In the Fifeshire Advertiser on Sept. 9, 1854 and the Fifeshire Journal on Sept. 14,1854 the death of a Mr. McKenzie of Kirkforthar Feus who worked in the Forthar Lime Works is shown. There is no way of knowing if this is the same person but the odds seem reasonable. It would be interesting to search the local cemetery records to learn more. Unfortunatley, I don't think I will be visiting the area and can not do so.
Happy researching!
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Just noticed you indicated you are related through Alexander. I have the children of the first marriage as Jane (1860 - ?), Margaret (1862 - ?), John (1864 - 1915), Alexander (1866 - 1867), and Robert (1867 - ?). The children from the second marriage I found are Janet (1873 - 1885), Annie (1875 - 1942), Mary (1878 - 1878), Alexander (1879 - ?) and James (1881 - 1902). I have a picture of the headstone of Alexander McKenzie (drowned in the Old Monkland Canal in 1829 - 1900). The headstone for Alexander shows also Jessie (Janet), James and John. Ann Ritchie (~1845 - 1917) is in a separate grave a few plots further along the same row.
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hi
Ann Ritchie and Alexander McKenzie also were parents of alexander mackenzie (brother to annie) who was my grand father b1879 married agnes park mcdonald and emmigrated to perth australia. Was Annie born about 1876, i did notice the name steel on death form How far back have you gone on this line ?
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So nobody's been able to push back beyond 1789 to find out anything about the first John McK's parentage?
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I could not get further back then John Mckenzie who married Margaret Nairn. I have some possibillities for Margaret Nairn.
Interesting about Alexander going to Australia - my grandfather indicated that someone in the family had gone there but I thought he said John had joined the marines, moved to Canada and then to Australia. Did they go directly or via Canada? Do you know if they ever visited British Columbia, Canada? As mentioned, i have a picture of the McKenzie family in Vancouver in the 1930s. Do you think you would recognize anyone? If so, I can find it and post it.
He also mentioned one of the family - I think Robert - went to Transvaal, South Africa and worked at the Golden Coach Hotel.
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On his marriage form( 1918) Alexander was able seaman at hms Vernon He was apparently affect by mustard gas during the war,he had 2 children born in Coatbridge. In late1923 he and his family emmigrated via London on the ship the Balranald to Fremantle Au. Unless he went during or prior to the war i don't think he made it to BC. He died 1950, i will find a pic for you and yes i would like to see your picture
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I wonder if my grandfather was confused in his later years and it was your relative that he was talking about. My grandfather was at Ypres in the mustard gas attack but happily did not suffer any long term effects.
I tried posing three pictures but the system crashed on me. I am trying now with one picture - my grandmother and the McKenzies. My grandmother is on the left in the picture.
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only this one at the moment as i'm at work, average quality
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For Margaret Nairn, I have:
1756: Margaret Nairn, born April 22nd to Andrew Nairn (weaver) & Elspeth McQuare, Scotstarvit, Ceres, Fife.
It's frustrating not to be able to follow back from John, though.
There were always rumours in my own family that some McKenzies went to Canada, but I've never been able to confirm it.
Interesting that another branch of the family ended up in Perth, Aus, since my uncle's family is there too! Are there still descendents living there?
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there are still plenty of descendents living here and from one of his sons (my father) about 30 people There are also descendants of a daughter in Perth His first son lived on the south coast ,the others over east
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I tried posting some more pics but I keep getting a message the pics are over the limit. i am not sure if there is a way to share emails without us posting our email addresses online. If anyone knows, please advise
Anyhow, in terms of Margaret Nairn, my final choice was also David Nairn and Elspeth McQuare, particulary as John MacKenzie and Margaret Nairn had a daughter named Elspeth. I did not find the birth of a son David though.
I found four possible births in Fife, one in Ceres (1756), two in Newburgh (1755 and 1757 - less likely) and one in Monimail (1768). Monimail is close to Ceres and if this one is correct, her parents were William Nairn and Margaret Smith. John MacKenzie and Margaret Nairn did have children named William and Margaret but I leaned to the other choice of David Nairn and Elspeth McQuare given the name Elspeth is less common. Guess we will never know for sure unless we find family headstones or family bibles!!
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Interesting about your grandfather Alexander having two children born in Coatbridge. Annie Ritchie McKenzie and her parents (Alexander McKenzie and Ann Ritchie McKenzie) lived at 70C Dunbeth Road, Coatbridge when her illegitimate son, my grandfather, Alexander McKenzie was born in 1895. The name Steel was added to my grandfather's name sometime after Annie married Alexander Steel and by the 1901 census my grandfather was shown with the last name Steel. (He changed the spelling to Steele).
When Alexander Mckenzie (1829) died in 1900 his residence was shown as 60 Ronald Street, Old Monkland and when Ann Ritchie McKenzie died in 1917 her residence was 67 A/1 Dundyvan Road, Coatbridge. Are any of these addresses matches for your grandfather Alexander? Annie Ritchie McKenzie died in 1942 in Shotts.
Funny how many Alexander McKenzie's there are! It gets confusing at a point! You can just imagine when the family came together in the old days how confusing it would be!
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yes it is confusing, 1901 census has him at 60 ronald street age 21 and when my g/father married 1918 they where at 132 Buchanan st Coatbridge and him occasionally at HMS Vernon 1st born son Alexander Park Mackenzie comes up in search as b1920 COATBRIDGE OR OLD MONKLAND but there's no image to view for more info. The second (daughter) i'm sure was also born there ,all 4 listed on the passenger list
The 1901 census has his wife as a child at 128 Buchanan st Very hard to find him on anything between 1901 and 1918 as a lot of results come up
what is known about John Mckenzie/Garland and John Mckenzie /Nairn ,I've only been searching a short time and have lots missing info. I ended up on this board when i googled Mckenzie/Garland a fair jump from where i was
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I can answer the question about the McKenzie family in Canada. William McKenzie (my great grandfather x3 - 1825-1913) emmigrated to Canada with his daughter Cecilia McKenzie Williamson (and her husband), while his son John Mckenzie (my great grandfather x2) stayed in Scotland. The Mckenzies moved to Winnipeg, Manitoba (and may eventually have moved west to British Columbia). Interestingly, my great grandfather, who married a Millar (hence the McKenzie and Millar undertaker business in Edinburgh) went to Canada in the 1930's to visit his McKenzie family (as well as Millar family who had also moved to Canada) and took a movie camera with him. Hopefully we will have these digitized in the near future.
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Ah well now, that's fascinating! So we share a great grandfather, then! That movie film will be fascinating to see if you manage it!
Have you done much research into the Millar side? I have some info on them: the most interesting titbit concerns William Millar who fought with the Black Watch at Waterloo - my cousin has his medal.
Meanwhile, I've been toying with the idea of trying to put the two strands of the Perth Mckenzies together for a pint and a chat or something...let me know if you're interested mac64!!
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Hi SpudJW,
I don't have much information on the Millar side of the family, although I do have a few photos (and an early 19th century drawing too). I remember my father telling me about somebody in the Millar family who acted as Queen Victoria's chaplain in Edinburgh (although I haven't found any evidence to support that). I hadn't heard about the Waterloo connection.
the films will definitely be interesting as they contain footage of my grandfather as a child along with his siblings (and their childhood home in Edinburgh, which is still standing). Since you are connected through both the Millar and McKenzie lines, I'm guessing that your grandfather must have been one of my grandfather's brothers: either William or John McKenzie?
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That's right, William, to be exact. My mother was his daughter Doris.
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My father Neil was Alfred McKenzie's son. I think I may have some pictures of your mother. I'll see if I have scanned versions of any of those.
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I don't remember meeting any of William's brothers, but I used to visit their sister Mary and her husband whenever I was in Edinburgh. She was a lovely woman.
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I'd love to see the pics from the McKenzie visit to Canada. I posted a picture previously of the McKenzies visiting my grandparents in British Columbia in 1939. Do you recognize anyone in the picture? My g-g-grandfather was Alexander McKenzie (1829 - 1900) and his daughter, Annie McKenzie (1875-1942), was the mother of my grandfather (ilegitimate), Alexander McKenzie (Steel).
Out of interest, has anyone in Scotland been able to track the death of John McKenzie (1792 - 1854?). As mentioned in an earlier posting I found a death in the Fifeshire papers of a Mr. McKenzie on Sept. 6, 1854 in Kirkforthar Feus, who worked in the Forthar Lime Works. I know from the 1851 census that he lived in Kirkforthar Feus. I could not find a death record at Scotland's People but I am wondering if anyone has located a headstone?
Also, I noticed in the 1861 census that William was living with his son (John) and daughter (Cecilia) mentioned in one of your early postings. I noticed that Agnes was also living with the family. I was never able to find birth or death info for Agnes. Has anyone tracked the other children in the family? Did Wiliam's twin brother, David, or the other children stay in Fife? Alexander, my g-g-grandfather is the only one I was able to track.
I'm happy to share my info and any other pics of the McKenzies that I have.
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It sounds like a good bet, Dijo. If he'd died after 1855, he'd most likely be in the official records, and we know he was a limestone miner and living in Kirkforthar Feus.
I have Agnes born in 1817, by the way.
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Hi Dijo, I don't recognize any of the people in your photograph. I only remember my grandfather speaking about family in Manitoba (although it's not unreasonable to expect some of them to have moved to B.C.).
I was interested to read that William had a twin brother; I wasn't aware of this.
Spud, I knew Mary quite well and I still see her husband, Robert, a couple of times a year (he also happens to be my grandmother's brother - she was married to Alfred Mckenzie). Robert has an amazing memory for details about the Mckenzie family and the last time I was there he let me make copies of a bunch of his photographs.
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Hi,
Thanks for letting me know about the photo.
My research shows 10 children born to John McKenzie (McKinzie/MacKenzie) and Margaret Garaland. John ~1816 in Ceres; Agnes ~1817 in Kettle; Margaret March 1, 1819 / baptized March 14,1819 Coalton, Kettle: Ann May 4,1821 / bap June 3, 1821 Cults; David and Willliam Sept. 9,1825 / bap Sept. 25, 1825 Bowhill, Kettle; Mary July 20, 1827 / bap Aug. 19, 1827 Kettle; Alexander Dec. 17, 1829 / bap Jan. 17, 1830 Kettle; Andrew June 15, 1832 / bap July 18, 1830 Bowhill, Kettle; James July 21, 1835 / bap Aug. 9, 1835 Bowhil, Kettle.
In the 1841 census, only John and Alexander are missing from the list of the family who are living in Bowhill, Kettle. In 1851, the family is living in Kirkforthar Feus but only Agnes, Margaret and James are living at home. I believe John (married with children) and Alexander are living in Drums, Falkland. William (married with a child) is lving in Collessie. In 1861 William is living with his sister Agnes and his children in Kinglassie and in 1871 is living in Markinch with his children. Alexander had moved to Lanarkshire by this time. In the 1871 census, Margaret Garland (83) was living in Markinch with her daughters Margaret (50) and Mary (38). I could not track the other family members.
I have copies of some docs for the family and have viewed all the "originals" at the archives in Edinburgh to ensure their accuracy.
Hope this helps and you can connect some dots from this info.
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Thanks for sharing all this Dijo!
I wonder if anyone has any ideas for how we can try to identify the first John McK, the subject of my original post.
One unusual thing is that the marriage with Margaret Nairn seems to have been quite a late one for these days, since if her parentage is the one we think it is she was 33 in 1789. Which would also explain why the kids seem to stop in 1800.
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I think the chances of trying to identify the original John McK are slim. A family bible would do the trick (I am surprised how many bibles are still in families - I would never have traced my great-grandfather John Smith without it!). The other possibility would be to search cemeteries, monumental inscriptions and burial records. I was briefly in the Fife area a couple of years ago but did not do any of these ideas justice. I skimmed the monumental inscription books for some cemeteries in the area but found nothing. I have found old headstones that are not listed in the MI books so it is certainly worth visiting cemeteries. I have found at cemeteries that many have the original records of burial and if you know the date of death, the folks will search though their records. The best bet for all these options is to live in the area and have time to do the research. I'm live in Canada and never have enough time to do everything when I visit Scotland! Love to know if anyone else has other ideas.
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spud
never shy of a pint or 3,gathering the clan together might take some effort though. it took a bit to of work for a get together for mums 80th
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That's a fine looking bunch! Yes, I wasn't thinking of anything so comprehensive - it just seems ironic that two strands of a family descended from two brothers should be in the same far-flung town (from a Scottish perspective anyway) and not know each other! If I was there, it would be easy to organise, but I'm in Italy. I'll try to think of something anyway.
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Hi - after reading all the posts re John Mckenzie - I am at the stage of not being able to find John Mackenzie's 1757-1829 parents. My mother was Gladys Mckenzie (married Smith) her father being John Mckenzie 1883-1959 my grand-father, GG was another John 1850-1916 and then GGG-William 1825-1913, GGGG- John 1792-1854, hitting the road block at John Mackenzie 1757-1829
My parents moved to Adelaide Sth. Australia along with Aunt Jennie (Janet) Conner sister to Annie whom married John Mckenzie my grandmother. Agnes daughter to Annie also moved to Australia
Enjoy reading all posts re Mckenzie/mackenzie and information provided