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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jeannie1000cc on Tuesday 08 September 09 23:46 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Hoping to find more details on my g.g.g.g.grandparents, Thomas Mathews & ?:
Father: Thomas Mathews, Laborer
Mother: ?
Sarah Mathews, b. abt. 1820-1821, E(a)rdington (in Stafford as per census)
Sarah Mathews m. Thomas Budd, Shenstone, Stafford 27-Apr-1845 (cert.)
(Thomas Budd b. abt. 1824, Elford, Stafford)
Children (1851 Census): Patience Budd, b. abt 1845, Lichfield, Stafford
William Budd, b. abt. 1846, Wednesbury, Stafford
Thomas Budd, b. 14-Nov-1848, Wednesbury, Stafford
Curiously, I did not manage to find Sarah and Thomas Budd's family in any other census. Any leads would be helpful. Thank you.
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It's possible Sarah died and Thomas remarried:
Deaths Jun 1854
BUDD Sarah
West Bromwich 6b 450
Marriages Dec 1856
BUDD Thomas Spooner
KNIBB Esther
W. Bromwich 6b 911
1861
RG9/2025; Folio 76; Page 2
(?)Laws Lane, W Bromwich
Thomas BUDD - Head - 38 - Labourer - Elford
Esther BUDD - Wife - 50 - Cundercott
Thomas BUDD - Son - 13 - Labourer - Wednesbury
Charles BUDD - Son - 10 - Labourer - Wednesbury
John NIBB - Son-in-law - 20 - Labourer - Samford
Emma NIBB - Dau-in-law - 8 - Samford
The middle name Spooner on the marriage record is a bit odd though... ???
Rambler
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Good find Rambler :)
Yes, Spooner is strange unless it goes further back ???
Jeannie 1000cc :)
Sorry if you already have this :-[
But as I cant find Sarahs parentage looked at the Budds.
Thomas Budds parents were Thomas Budd and Frances Middleton married 14 March 1812, Elford.
In 1841 Thomas has left home but younger siblings Elizabeth 1834 and Charles 1830 are still at home with Thomas and Frances in Elford.
HO107/979/8/Elford
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I'm not sure whether you have this:
Patience BUDD m. Thomas MASON, 16 Mar 1868, Bishops Ryder, Birmingham
1871
RG10/3118; Folio 11; Page 16
Derby St (Ct 2, 4 House), Birmingham
Thomas MASON - Head - 30 - Iron Caster - Birmingham
Pashans MASON - Wife - 25 - Birmingham
Thomas MASON - Son - 2 - Birmingham
Ann FIRKIN - Lodger - 20 - Butter Maker - Birmingham
1881
RG11/3001; Folio 56; Page 4
13 Staniforth St, Birmingham
Thomas MASON - Head - 40 - Malleable Iron Caster - Birmingham
Patience MASON - Wife - 38 - Litchfield
Thomas MASON - Son - 12 - Birmingham
Mary Ann MASON - Dau - 7 - Birmingham
Charles MASON - Son - 5 - Birmingham
Mary FISHER - Relative - 52 - Servant to Family - Litchfield
Rambler
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Hi Rambler,
Many thanks for your post. The Sarah Budd of West Bromwich is most likely not my Sarah. Coincidentally, there were two Thomas and Sarah Budd families close to each other in the 1851 census. One family lived in West Bromwich and had no mention of a son Thomas. The other lived in Wednesbury with a son Thomas (my g.g.grandfather) born in the correct year. So the Wednesbury family is my family. It has made some searches since a little more challenging, this odd coincidence.
I did not already have the additional info you kindly provided for Patience Budd. I will add it to my family file, with thanks again.
Hi Trish 1120,
That is great info, many thanks to you also for your post. I had already found Thomas (jr) and Thomas (sr) separately in the 1841 census but could not tie it together for sure. Theory confirmed with your kind help. As for the Budd info, that sounds like a perfect fit. Would it be forward of me to ask your source for these two records so I may add this source info to my family file? Thank you so much once more.
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Hi again Rambler,
A classic beginner's mistake - I rushed to answer before carefully looking things over :-[. Eight years and still learning.
Your theory would certainly explain why Thomas and Sarah Budd are not to be found in any other census. Also, date/place of birth for Thomas (head) and Thomas (son) are a match to my 1851 family. My dilemma now is that I should ask for her death certificate, but the only determining factor would be her age. Either Sarah from 1851 Wednesbury or Sarah from 1851 West Bromwich would have likely been reported by the widower, Thomas Budd in both cases. My Sarah was 30 and the other was 37 in 1851. Or I could ask for the Budd-Knibb marriage certificate to find the groom's father. I suppose to be sure I should ask for both. I'll let you know all the details when I get this sorted out. Sorry for repeating - many many many thanks once again!
As for Sarah, someone has suggested it is possible she is from Eardington in Shropshire. I had ruled this out a while ago considering the proximity of Erdington to other parishes associated with the family. I am very new to both RootsChat and the whole genre of online forums; would you suggest I post in the Shropshire forum as well?
All this and the release of The Beatles RockBand, what a great week! ;D
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I've looked at the "other" Thomas-Sarah couple, and they are still together on the 1861 census, with children Nathaniel and Sarah. (RG9/2029; Folio 106; Page 24)
So the 1854 death isn't that Sarah, although of course it might be a child - it's a nuisance the age isn't given in the index!
I would definitely invest in the Budd-Knibb marriage cert, funds permitting, and hopefully that will confirm whether it's the same Thomas. I'm still looking for William and Patience in 1861 - William apparently resurfaces married to Annie/Hannah from 1871 onwards.
If you post on the Shropshire board, include a link to this thread so folk can see what has been posted here and avoid going over the same ground needlessly. (Just copy and paste the address from your browser window.) It seems more likely Sarah was from Staffordshire as you say, but with genealogy you never know!
Rambler
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Hi Jeannie :),
Sorry I should have put my source up on post so have amended it below.
From IGI at Familysearch;
Thomas BUDD
Christened, 14 July 1822, Elford, Staffordshire
Parents, THOMAS Budd and FRANCES
Siblings on same batch ( let me know if you do not know how to do this);
MARY ANN Budd, 13 June 1813
HANNAH Budd, 17 September 1815
JOHN Budd, 02 Decmber 1817
THOMAS Budd, 14 July 1822
GEORGE Budd, 10 February 1828
CHARLES Budd, 08 August 1830
ELIZABETH Budd, 1834 ( no exact date given)
As eldest child was born 1813 I looked ffor a marriage Thomas Budd to a Francis 1815+/- 5yrs on IGI.
Thomas BUDD/Francis MIDDLETON 1812, was the only one that fitted.
I looked for a Francis Budd living in Elford and found the 1841 Census, which confirmed Thomas/Francis and younger children still living at home ;D
As Thomas snr was aged about 45 in 1841 , rounded, I looked for a christening for him as well 1796+/- 5yrs.
Thomas BUDD
26 December 1791, Elford, Staffordshire
Parents THOS Budd and HANNAH
Looks good as they named a daughter Hannah.
Siblings on same batch;
THOMAS, 13 April 1789, died 18 August 1790
JOHN, 10 May 1783
ANNE, 31 May 1795
Marriage just before birth of first child;
THOMAS Budd
Hannah TOWERS
29 June 1782, Saint Mary, Lichfield, Stafford
There is a submitted ie info by another person on here as well. It says Thomas was born 1854, Elford . Hannah 1761 Lichfield.
You can check this for yourself. But rember alwats look for extracted records and check all submitted ones.
Cheers,
Trish :)
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Wow! :o you've both gone way above and beyond. I'm very thankful for not only your great assistance but also for your kind advice. I've decided to go for Sarah Budd's death certificate first, and if the details fit, I'll request the Budd-Knibb marriage, and check out the rest while waiting for the postman. Details to follow soon...
I hope I have a chance to pay forward your generous and spirited efforts. Thanks again :).
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Jeannie
If you do obtain the marriage certificate for Thomas BUDD and Esther KNIBB, could you please share with me her father's name? She had first married William KNIBB c1832 I would guess.
Do you have her as dying 04qtr1884 Walsall District? She was still with Thomas on the 1871 census (indexed as RUDD at ancestry) and a widow in 1881 at Elford. She was born at Condicote but quite when is hard to tell because her age in census returns seems to vary somewhat.
I haven't picked up Thomas' death either.
Alan Jackson
Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study
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I think I have now found Esther's baptism as HOLTOM on 29th March 1809 at Condicote to a William and Mary which fits with a William KNIBB/Esther HOLTHAM marriage at Lighthorne on 24th June 1828.
Alan
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Dear Jeannie
I wish I'd seen your Rootschat postings earlier as I could have saved you a load of time. Thomas MASON & Patience BUDD were two of my great grandparents and I researched the Budds and the Masons over twentyfive years ago. My family database contains well over 96,000 people. I was born in Oxfordshire to Frederick Norman HAZELL and Florence Victoria MASON. I can let you have a Budd tree back to Thomas & Rebecca BUDD, the parents of Thomas BUDD bapt. 1754 at Elford, Staffs., who married Hannah TOWERS and was the father of the Thomas who married Frances MIDDLETON. I presume you are a descendant of Albert Edwin BUDD (1876-1958), who emigrated to Canada in 1912. I am a retired consular officer and live in Tenerife in the Canary Islands.
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Hi,
Thanks for your message. I am indeed a descendant of Albert Edwin Budd, by his daughter Rose. I haven't picked up my research for a couple of years, but my Budd research did go quite well. I am a direct descendant of Patience Budd's brother Thomas. My brick wall is on the MATHEWS/MATHERS/MATTHEWS side - I've yet to find conclusive documentation regarding the parentage of Thomas (1822-1901) Budd's first wife, Sarah Matthews (d. May 2, 1854). Any info you have in this regard would be welcome. Thanks again and best wishes, Jeannie.