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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: flamingo66 on Monday 07 September 09 20:17 BST (UK)

Title: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: flamingo66 on Monday 07 September 09 20:17 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,

I've got my great-great gran's marriage certificate from the GRO through today (I think I'm keeping them in business at the moment!), and her husband's address is Fortune Place, Fortune Street, Manchester, and her address is Richmond Street, Ancoats, Manchester at the time they were married in April 1898.

I can't find either of them on the Manchester Image Collection - does anyone know whereabouts these streets were? My Nanna thinks that Richmond Street was near Rigel Street, but I have got Rigel Street on a print-out map from the library and can't see it anywhere.

Hope you can help!

Thanks

Katie  :D
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: gwynt on Monday 07 September 09 20:27 BST (UK)
Hi Katie,

There is still a Richmond Street in Central Manchester:-

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Richmond%20Street%2C%20Ancoats%2C%20Manchester&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Cheers,
Gwyn
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 07 September 09 21:00 BST (UK)
Richmond Street and Fortune Street can be found very near Livesey Street on the Godfrey map 104.07

rigel street manchester england - can be found on google earth and is on the spot of Richmond Street

Sorry Gwyn it is not the Manchester central one

Ken
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 07 September 09 21:02 BST (UK)
Richmond Street Newton Heath photos can be found on the images site
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: flamingo66 on Monday 07 September 09 21:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Ken, so Nanna was right when she said Rigel Street was near Richmond Street, if they are one in the same! They married at St Patricks RC Church, Livesey Street, Collyhurst, so that makes sense!) ;D

I don't think that the Richmond Street, Newton Heath and the Richmond Street, Ancoats (on the census) could be the same street on Manchester Images, could they? As they are two towns apart, I though they must just coincidentally share the same street name.

Thanks to Gwyn too

Katie
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 07 September 09 21:17 BST (UK)
Hi Katie

Ancoats and Newton Heath border each other with Miles Platting and if they wed at St Pat's more than likely Newton Heath

Rigel Street replaced Richmond Road during the slum clearance in Manchester

What are the other streets on the next few pages of the census?

This will clear up any doubt

Ken
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 07 September 09 21:27 BST (UK)
Interesting problem - I suspect the images marked as Ancoats are the same place as the Newton heath ones

cut and paste this into the images site - Ancoats, Kemp Street/Late Richmond Street (facing east) - now look at the name on the road Rigel Street

I cannot see them being anywhere else
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: gwynt on Monday 07 September 09 21:33 BST (UK)
Yeah the streets (at least parts of them) in the census district are Oldham Road, Butler Street, Elizabeth Street, Rodney Street, Portugal Street, Richmond Street and Leigh Street Earl(??) which fits in with Rigel Street I reckon.
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: uk2003 on Monday 07 September 09 21:47 BST (UK)
All the correct on the map  ;)
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: Viktoria on Monday 07 September 09 23:44 BST (UK)
There was a district in that part of Manchester named NEWTON, it bordered on Collyhurst, and Miles Platting.We always put Newton as our postal district until about 1956 .
 It included Bradford Road  where I lived. Later it got engulfed by Miles Platting and Newton was lost .Many  other districts disappeared---Chetwood, Travis and Travis Isle, Horrocks and Great Horrocks , Holt Town,New Islington.                                                                                       
 Newton Heath is much further up Oldham road , near Church Street and ends where Failsworth begins.                                                                                                                                                   
 Ancoats is bounded by Great Ancoats street and Ashton new Road and Oldham Road, it becomes Beswick partly along Cambrian Street which runs between Bradford Road and Ashton new Road.
No doubt the district boundaries changed over the years but there really was a district called Newton-not to be mixed up with Newton heath.Viktoria.
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: flamingo66 on Tuesday 08 September 09 23:11 BST (UK)
Thanks for that! It does say 'late Richmond St' under Rigel Street on the road sign after all. 

So Richmond Street, Newton Heath is a completely different street then. The houses look completely different too! Wonder why they changed road names, bit confusing! Though I know it happened a few times in Ancoats - Prussia St to Kemp St, German St to Radium St, Sanitary St to Anita St - I just didn't know about the one I needed!  ::)

Unfortunately no photos of Fortune Place or Fortune Street on Manchester Images  :(

Thanks again for the info and help  ;D

Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Wednesday 16 June 10 15:33 BST (UK)
I know this is an oldish thread but.........................

does anyone know when and why Richmond Street became Rigel Street?

What was Kemp Street previously known as? I can't make out what is on the street sign.

There was a pub on Rigel Street called the Rose and Crown....... was this once the Oddfellows........was it on the corner with Prussia Street? Did Prussia Street become Kemp Street????

My gt gt gt grandparents lived at 18 Richmond Street, hence my interest.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: Barbara.H on Thursday 17 June 10 10:49 BST (UK)
re Richmond/Rigel St; looking at various maps, it seems to have changed name between 1930-1939.  As to why, I don't know, but there wass another Richmond St at the far north end of Newton Heath (off Droylsden Rd), so the name change may have been to avoid confusion between the two.

Richmond St off Droylsden Rd is now Rossington St!
[edit: this is the district Viktoria mentioned, i.e. near Church St]

 :) Barbara
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: flamingo66 on Thursday 17 June 10 23:21 BST (UK)
Hi Martin

Kemp Street was previously Prussia Street - my mum's uncle lived on Kemp Street when she was little, but the park there was still known as Prussia Park even after the change of name.

The Oddfellows and Rose and Crown were two different pubs - the Rose and Crown was a Victorian red brick with two front doors side by side, the Oddfellows was rendered white and the door was on the corner between Kemp St (Prussia St) and Rigel St (Richmond St).

If you are on Facebook, there is a fab group called ANCOATS FOREVER with lots of photos of old Ancoats, and loads of expert local people who can answer anything about 50s and 60s Ancoats!! Also have a look at the Manchester Image Collection (run by the council) if you haven't already - you can search thousands of photos by street all over Manchester going back to the early 1900s.

Katie :)
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: Mr. MIGKY on Friday 18 June 10 08:25 BST (UK)
There are a few maps on this site that might help you ?
Migky  ;)

Click 4 Maps of Manchester (http://www.artus-familyhistory.com/source/Early%20Maps.html/source/Early%20Maps.html)
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Friday 18 June 10 14:26 BST (UK)
brillaint, thank you both.

Do you know where the Rose & Crown was?
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: 0rinoco on Friday 18 June 10 16:48 BST (UK)
Martin. There were two pubs called the Rose and Crown, one on Great Ancoats Street, the other, which is probably yours, in Rigel St.
Also, looking at my book of old Ancoats pubs, I see that the Rose and Crown appears to be listed as being in Rigel Street as early as 1920.
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Friday 18 June 10 21:33 BST (UK)
Thanks Orinoco.................. I was hoping to find out where on Rigel Street it was
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: 0rinoco on Friday 18 June 10 22:14 BST (UK)
Martin. First, a bit of a mystery here. Prior to 1900, the street was known as Richmond Street. Some time between 1900 and 1909 it became Rigel Street. By 1930, it had reverted back to Richmond Street (see attachment below)
As to the address of the Rose and Crown, one possibility is number 13 Rigel Street which is described as home to James Baron, a beer retailer in 1909.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Friday 18 June 10 22:45 BST (UK)
that's great thanks.................. any idea where no 18 was? South or North side?
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: 0rinoco on Saturday 19 June 10 11:17 BST (UK)
that's great thanks.................. any idea where no 18 was? South or North side?

Number 18 would have been on the South side, on the section of Rigel Street between Prussia Street and Rodney Street. The numbering began at the Prussia Street end.
As a matter of interest, I have just updated that particular section of the map to include some previously omitted streets in the vicinity.
Cheers.
Eric
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: kooky on Saturday 19 June 10 17:34 BST (UK)
Thanks for this thread. My family lived in Prussia St., in the 1881 census. I now know that it became Kemp St., so I can look at the maps again!
Kooky
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Monday 21 June 10 21:57 BST (UK)
Just for giggles I was looking on the 1881 census and 28 Richmond Street was known as the Rodney Inn. Perhaps this became the Rose and Crown?
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: 0rinoco on Tuesday 22 June 10 08:15 BST (UK)
Martin. Interesting link http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alscot1/GeorgeLeighRoseCrown.htm

Second picture down.

Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Tuesday 22 June 10 09:31 BST (UK)
Thanks Orinoco. I saw this on the manmates site, which was my first inkling of a pub on Richmond Street.

There are a couple more pictures on the images.manchester.gov.uk site, although I have to question their geography - seems to me that their idea of north and south goes against what is shown on maps.
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: GandLMartin on Friday 25 February 11 11:50 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm new to this game. I searched the name DARDIS (Ireland) and your name came up. Do you have any interests/connections with Dardis family?
Cheers  ***Geoff Martin     

PS please tell me if I'm not going about this the right way!

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Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: kooky on Friday 25 February 11 12:25 GMT (UK)
One of my gt gr father's sisters Martha Clulo was a boarder at 3, Richmond St. with the Cooper family, in the 1881 census.
Kooky
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Friday 25 February 11 15:11 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm new to this game. I searched the name DARDIS (Ireland) and your name came up. Do you have any interests/connections with Dardis family?
Cheers  ***Geoff Martin     

PS please tell me if I'm not going about this the right way!

Email addy removed in accordance with RootChat's Privacy Policy.  Please use our secure Personal Messaging system to exchange personal information.  You will be able to access this facility once you have made 3 posts.

Geoff I've sent you a pm. You'd best get another couple of posts up so you can read it!
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: GandLMartin on Saturday 26 February 11 00:18 GMT (UK)
Here a null post to get to 3
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: GandLMartin on Saturday 26 February 11 00:18 GMT (UK)
Here's another
G
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: GandLMartin on Saturday 26 February 11 00:19 GMT (UK)
And a third
GM
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: Roddyfamiliy on Monday 19 August 13 14:21 BST (UK)
Hello am new to the website

Just been reading some of your memories from the area where my family used to have The Rose and Crown pub on Rigel Street in Ancoats - They were the Roddy family. Sadly one the family have jsut passed away, however she left an album of pictures of the days when the used to run the pub before moving to the Hare and Hounds in Shudehill.

If anyone has in interest I can post a few pics hopefully!
Or if you remember frequenting any of the pubs I'd love to hear from you!
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: martin young on Monday 19 August 13 14:34 BST (UK)
Hi I'd love to see some pics of the Rose and Crown....... I know the Hare and Hounds fairly well!!!
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: Roddyfamiliy on Monday 06 April 15 22:44 BST (UK)
Hi!

These posts are really interesting as my great grandparents John and Bridget Roddy owned an off license on James Street in the 1900's. They had moved over from Roscommon, Ireland.
My great Uncle John at some point ran The Rose and Crown on Rigel Street. My Nana was Doris Roddy who married Eddie Duddy and for several years they lived there when my mum Mary Duddy was born.
To the best of my knowledge the pub was pulled down in the 1960's, my Uncle Jim Roddy - who was known as the Bishop of Moston had taken over the license from his brother John who had died some years earlier. Jim Roddy then went on to manage The Hare and Hounds, Shudehill....

tbc
Title: Re: Richmond St, Ancoats, and Fortune Street, Manchester?
Post by: pwolsty on Friday 04 December 15 19:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Flamingo66

My grandfather was born at 11 Fortune Street in 1893 and was at 3 Fortune Place on the 1901 census. I have found these streets on the 1891 Manchester (NE) OS map but I am struggling to work out which district they are in. On my granddad's birth certificate the Registrar's Sub-district is given as St. George. This is the church just round the corner on Oldham Road. Richmond Street runs parallel to Oldham Road on the opposite side to St. Georges. Since Oldham Road marks the parliamentary, borough and ward boundaries, Richmond Street has a different address. It is in New Cross Ward and probably in Ancoats.