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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: maraussan on Saturday 05 September 09 19:43 BST (UK)
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Hi can anyone help me as I seem to have hit a brick wall. I am looking for my gggrandparents - William Loates born 1837 Melbourne Cambs and his wife Mary born 1836 Liverpool. The 1861 census shows them living at Christchurch Surrey with their first child Joseph, my ggrandfather born in 1861 at Christchurch. William is listed as being a coal porter. The 1871 census lists Mary, Joseph ,William 1867, George 1869 and Jane 1871. No mention of husband. The 1881 census only lists George who is an inmate at the Central London District School at Hanwell. I believe it was a school for pauper children. I can find no other reference for the rest of the family.
Any help much appreciated.
Pat
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1871 - RG10/593; Folio: 36; Page: 4 - St Saviour, Southwark, Christchurc
Mother Mary is shown as -W- a widow, so given the 8 month old child present, you have a neat narrow timeframe to locate Father Williams death :)
would have preferred St Saviour District, but how about;-
Deaths Jun 1870
Loate William 35 St. Olave vol 1d page 112
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Age not correct, but thats far from unusual, so given the District and the fairly rare name, worth a punt!
Deaths Jun 1874
LOATES Mary 42 St. Saviour vol 1d page 2
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I notice that in 1891 and 1901, Joseph states his PoB as Blackfriars .....
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Have a look at this family in 1881: the head was born Cambs, Milbourne [sic], and altho transcribed as Soates looks like Loates....
There is a 19 year old Joseph boarding with them....
RG11/692; Folio: 23; Page: 40 - Camberwell, Christchurch?
More readable in 1871 ...
1871 - RG10/593; Folio: 55; Page: 41 - Christchurch Parish, St Saviour Southwark
33, Broadwall
Fordham Loates 29 Head COKE BURNER Cambs, Melbourne
Sarah Loates 27 Wife Notts Hucknall Tankard (from the 1891 census*)
William G Loates 1 son Christchurch
Pound to a penny that Fordham Loates is Joseph's Uncle .... :)
* Also from 1891, Fordhams MIL is with them, her name is Mary Boot, also born Hucknall T, Notts.
Might help locate a marriage for Fordham & Sarah ?
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Fordham is lodging in Camberwell in 1861, jumping back to 1851 theres actually 2 Fordhams in Melbourne, but this one has a bro William of the right age to be your man..
1851 - HO107/1708; Folio: 180; Page: 9 - Melbourn, Cambs
Drum Lane, High Street
all state born in Melbourn
Ann Loates/r 52 WIDOW Head Wid of Ag Lab
Thomas Loater 19 son Ag Lab
Susanna Loater 17 dau
William Loater 15 son
Elsie Loater 12 son
Fordham Loater 10
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I have the following data for a William Loates. His son William was born in 1835?. I have no further details of William. If this is your family Fordham Loates was my GGrandfather. Note that there are two William Loates' as asons of William
________________________________________________________________________________
Family of William LOATES and Ann FORDHAM
________________________________________________________________________________
Husband: William LOATES (1793?-1846)
Wife: Ann FORDHAM (1798?- )
Children:
William LOATES (1816-1831)
John LOATES (1819- )
Emmala LOATES (1819- )
Joseph LOATES (1824- )
James LOATES (1826- )
Elizabeth LOATES (1829-1846)
Thomas LOATS (1830-1900)
Susan LOATES (1833?- )
William LOATES (1835?- )
Ellis LOATES (1838- )
Fordham LOATES (1841-1911)
Marriage 15 Jul 1816 Melbourn, Cambridge, England
Husband: William LOATES
Name: William LOATES
Sex: Male
Father: John LOATES (1768-1795)
Mother: Mill HARPER ( - )
Birth 1793 (app)
Death 1 Nov 1846 (age 52-53) Melbourn Cambs
Census 1841 (age 47-48) H0107 63 17 5B
Baptism 5 Jul 1795 (age 1-2) William of John and Mary
Christening
Occupation Labourer
Wife: Ann FORDHAM
Name: Ann FORDHAM
Sex: Female
Father: William FORDHAM ( - )
Mother: Elizabeth (UNKNOWN) ( - )
Birth 1798 (app) Melbourn Cambs
Census 1851 (age 52-53) H0107 1708 180B
Baptism 14 May 1798 (age 0) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 1: William LOATES
Name: William LOATES
Sex: Male
Birth 16 Aug 1816 Melbourn Cambs
Death 25 Nov 1831 (age 15) Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 17 Aug 1817 (age 1) Melbourn Cambs
Christening
Child 2: John LOATES
Name: John LOATES
Sex: Male
Spouse: Marianne DISBURY (1818?- )
Birth 17 Aug 1819 Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 17 Jul 1825 (age 5) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 3: Emmala LOATES
Name: Emmala LOATES
Sex: Female
Birth 11 Jan 1819 Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 17 Jul 1825 (age 6) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 4: Joseph LOATES
Name: Joseph LOATES
Sex: Male
Spouse: Emma MUNCEY (1826?- )
Birth 6 Feb 1824
Census 1851 (age 26-27) Melbourn Cambs
Occupation 1851 (age 26-27) -; Farm Labourer
Baptism 17 Jul 1824 (age 0) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 5: James LOATES
Name: James LOATES
Sex: Male
Spouse: Mary Ann HARMAN (1829?- )
Birth 31 Dec 1826 Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 8 Jul 1827 (age 0) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 6: Elizabeth LOATES
Name: Elizabeth LOATES
Sex: Female
Birth 22 Dec 1829 Melbourn Cambs
Death 16 Jun 1846 (age 16) Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 11 Jul 1830 (age 0) Melbourn Cambs
Christening
Child 7: Thomas LOATS
Name: Thomas LOATS
Sex: Male
Birth 1830 ?Bassingbourn, Melbourn, CAM, ENG
Death 21 Dec 1900 (age 69-70) Geelong, VIC, AUS
Baptism (1) 14 Apr 1833 (age 2-3) Melbourn Cambs
Baptism (2) 14 Apr 1833 (age 2-3) Melbourn, CAM, ENG
Burial Eastern Cemetery, Geelong, VIC, AUS
Emigration 20 Oct 1852 (age 21-22) from London, ENG
Immigration 4 Mar 1853 (age 22-23) to Portland, VIC, AUS
Religion -; Independent
Ship 1852 (age 21-22) Duke of Richmond
Christening
Child 8: Susan LOATES
Name: Susan LOATES
Sex: Female
Birth 1833 (app) Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 5 Mar 1837 (age 3-4) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 9: William LOATES
Name: William LOATES
Sex: Male
Birth 1835 (app) Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 5 Mar 1837 (age 1-2) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Christening
Child 10: Ellis LOATES
Name: Ellis LOATES
Sex: Male
Spouse 1: Elizabeth Soundy Gash (1841-1885)
Spouse 2: Zilpah Matilda BOSTON (1839- )
Birth 18 Aug 1838 Camberwell, Surrey, England
Baptism 19 Jul 1840 (age 1) Melbourn Cambs
Christening 19 Jul 1840 (age 1) Melbourn Cambs
Death
Child 11: Fordham LOATES
Name: Fordham LOATES
Sex: Male
Spouse: Sarah BOOT (1842?- )
Birth 28 Aug 1841 Melbourn Cambs
Baptism 19 Aug 1849 (age 7) Melbourn Cambs
Christening
Census 1901 (age 59-60) RG13_PC511_FO147_27 - 146
Death 2 Feb 1911 (age 69) Camberwell, Surrey, England
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Well, the OP was Last Online: 2009-09-13, 03:00:49, but hasnt seen fit to comment on the findings.
Lets hope your details will be of interest ;)
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Sorry I did not respond quickly but I have been away from home. A close friend without any other support had major heart surgery in Paris and I have been with her. No internet access at the hospital. I do appreciate the time and effort that people put in finding information. Now that I have net access I will continue with my research at the same time caring for my friend.
Best wishes
Pat
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Hello HinInverness,
Thanks for the very helpful information and great news. William Loates (1835 approx) son of Fordham and Ann was my gggrandfather. I have further info about him which might be useful.
1861 census RG09 312 138 10
William Loates born 1837 Melbourne Cambs, occupation coal porter
Spouse Mary - no surname born 1836 Liverpool
Son Joseph Loates - my ggrandfather born 1861 Christchurch, Surrey
Residence 8 Broadwall Southwark
1871 census RG10 593 36 4
Mary Loates widow occ mangler, birth place shown as Lancashire
Son Joseph
Son William 1867 Christchurch Surrey
Son George Loates 1869 Christchurch, Surrey
Daughter Son Jane Loates 1871 Christchurch, Surrey GRO ref shows her as Mary Jane
Residence 33 Broadwall Southwark
William Loates snr died 1870 GRO ref 1d 112 St Olaves
1881 census GR11 1356 ? ?
Son George Loates
Inmate at the Central London District School, Hanwell, Middlesex - I believe this was a school for pauper children
Can find no trace of Joseph, William or Jane on this census
Mary Loates died 1874
1891 census RG12 506 104 38
Joseph Loates occ Railway Engine Fireman
Spouse Eliza Hamilton born 1865 Horsleydown Surrey, married 20 June 1886 Southwark
Daughter Florence born 1887 New Cross
Daughter Grace Loates born 1889 New Cross, died 1894 GRO ref Greenwich 1d 517
Residence Casella Road East, St Paul Deptford, Hatcham
1901 census
Joseph, Eliza and Florence
Eva Loates - my grandmother born 1892 New Cross
Baptised 13 November 1892 All Saints, Deptford
Residence St Georges Road, Hastings, Sussex
1911 census
Joseph and family lived at Waterworks Road, Hastings, Sussex
Occ Stationary engine driver
Eva Loates married George Grant Hill 1916, Hastings
Daughter Irene Eva Hill born 20 March 1918 Hastings, died September 2004
Florence Loates married Russell Clair Quick 11 July 1917 St Andrews Church, Hastings
Russell Quick born 11 March 1893 Tawas City, Michigan, USA
Occ Canadian Expeditionary Force WW1
Daughter Hilda Quick born 1918
Family emigrated to Canada, ship Melita, port of arrival, Quebec
Florence died 1970 Ontario, Canada
Russell died 10 March 1974, Rosedale, British Columbia
Place of burial - Florence & Russell, Oakland Cemetery, Mosa Middlesex, Ontario
Grave ref MX-MO-507
Joseph Loates died 21 November 1927 aged 66 Hastings
Eliza Loates died 15 April 1934 aged 69 Hastings
Hope this helps with William's line of the Loates. It looks as though there is a link between Fordham (child 11) and William (child 9) on your list
Happy reading
Pat
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1881 census GR11 1356 ? ?
Son George Loates
Inmate at the Central London District School, Hanwell, Middlesex - I believe this was a school for pauper children
Can find no trace of Joseph, William or Jane on this census
Have you reviewed the earlier posts of this thread?
They establish fairly firmly that Fordham was indeed Joseph's Uncle ..... :)
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Hi Pat
Thanks for all that information. I can get back to 17??; a John Loates who married in 1738 but not with the depth of info that you have.
I will put it into my family tree and see where it takes me.
Are you a Loates too?
Regards HinInverness
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Hi HinInverness,
My grandmother was Eva Loates 1892, her father was Joseph Loates 1861 and his father William Loates 1837. The Loates line stopped after Eva, no sons but I am directly descended from William brother of your Fordham. I think we may be 4th cousins.
Best wishes
Pat
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Hi HinInverness,
I should have said that Eva Loates and husband George Grant Hill had one child, a daughter Irene Eva, who was my mother. She died in 2004.
Also thanks to a previous reply from Rootschat I have found Joseph Loates on the 1881 census. The transcription I have shows the name as Coates but it is definitely Joseph who is boarding with Fordham and family. Both Fordham and Joseph are listed as being railway labourers and the family living in Camberwell. Writing on census records is always a problem for transcribers as not clear. Ref is RG11 0692 24
Best wishes
Pat
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Thanks Passed Master
Yes, Joseph Loates confirmed as living with his uncle Fordham. I had difficulty reading the original census image but managed to read the address , did an address search and found a transcription which had Loates transcribed as Coates. Must be very frustrating for transcribers as some of the enumerators scripts very difficult. Still trying to find William 1867 and Jane 1871 no luck at the moment.
Thanks for help at least I'm one step closer.
Pat
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All the early Loates families in Melbourn were recorded without the 'e'. Parish registers at Melbourn are very concise about this. When young Thomas Loats emigtrated to Australia he appeared on the ships passenger list as 'Looks' but retained 'Loats' when he arrived. Consequently all those in Victoria State were 'Loats', a spelling tjhat survives to this day I believe. Being a Loates I have studied the Loates families in Cambridgeshire and have found over 20 variants, with Lofts and Loughts being the most common. Of course, there was Archer Bell Loates who being slow of speech had his name written as Archer B
A. Loates
Cambridgeshire
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In Melbourn, Cambridgeshire, the Loates families had their names written as Loats. Only in an early census did it become Loates and when some moved to London they couldn't make up their m,inds how to spell it. Whem Thomas Loats emigrated to Australia he briefly appeared as 'Looks' on the ship's passenger list - probably a pronounciation thing but he retained 'Loats' on arrival in Victoria and that spelling has survived to this day down under I believe. Being a Cambridgeshire Loates I have studied the name closely and have found over 20 variants, mainly Lofts and Loughts. The strangest has to be Archer Bell Loates. Born in Cambridge he married at Cherry Hinton his name was recorded in the register there as Archer Belloats. Two children were had Belloats as a family name but later Archer Belloats moirphed into Archibald Loats or Loates.
Be lucky
Anthony 'Andy' Loates Cambridgeshire.
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Hi Andy
Thanks for the message about alternative spellings for Loates. I have "lost" a family member. My great grandfather Joseph Loates was one of the children of William Loates, a brother of Thomas who went to Australia. William moved to London and married in 1859. There were four children of the marriage. William died a few months before the birth of his daughter Mary Jane in 1870 and his wife Mary Ann died in 1874 after contracting TB two years previously.
I am trying to find Mary Jane but without success. The 1871 census lists her as Jane and the family living at 8 Broadwall, Christchurch, Southwark where the mother supported the family by working as a mangler. The 1881 census lists Joseph as living with his uncle Fordham Loates in Camberwell before marrying and eventually moving to Hastings, Sussex. George, another brother, was an inmate at the Central London District School in Hanwell. He had been placed there by the Christchurch Poor Law Union and went on to join the Royal Navy before dying in the Royal Naval Hospital, Chatham in 1894.
I assume that Jane was also in the care of the Christchurch Union but can find no further census records. I have also looked up the bmd's for death and marriage but no luck. I know that children were sent overseas, particularly Canada, by various institutions for a new life but I'm not having any success. Did she return to relatives in Melbourn?
Any help and advice you can give would be very much appreciated as I would like to know what happened to her.
Thanks a lot
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Regarding Mary Jane Loates. As she was about 4 when orphaned I would assume she went to the nearest Poor Law Union ('workhouse'). They apparently didn't bother chasing up possible relatves in those days. (I have a similar thing in my family - an 11 year-old orphan was packed off to Canada despite having siblings, uncles, aunts, grandparents et al).
In a workhouse she would have been given various tasks from an early age and by the time she was a teenager she would have made an ideal housekeeper, lady's maid, etc. If she was hired by a good family she may have travelled overseas with them, especially if the master was a firebrand Anglican parson intent on converting the pagan world !!!
If she was a resourceful girl sha may have gone overseas by herself. (Again in my family I have an Eliza Loates who was last heard of as a 15 year-old teacher in 1851. She finally turned up in the US 1880 census).
Did she drop the 'Mary' and use 'Jane' as her given name?
Was it changed 'accidently'? (Getting back to my lot, when a birth was registered in Kent either the registrar was hard of hearing or the informant's speech was adrift because Loates became Loakes, a name which he and his children retained.
Also, in Cambridgeshire there is a case of mis- translation. A family called Toates has been recorded as Loates. Checking the original , a Victorian longhand ' T' hs been transcribed as an 'L'.
These are just a few alternatives you can try
Be lucky
Andy Loates