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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: benjy83 on Saturday 05 September 09 00:33 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Not sure if this has already been asked, but I'm having a right old time trying to find some marriages in Northumberland (Newcastle/Tynemouth etc.)... I'm wondering if there are some missing or incorrectly transcribed indeces from the 1920s that anyone knows about?
I'm trying to find a marriage between Elizabeth Jane Smurthwaite and Joseph Kirtley (neither are particularly common surnames!)... their first child was born in 1927 so I initially looked through just the 20s, but I have ended up checking ALL dates, to no avail.
My second case is a Hall/Hoper marriage in again the 20s. I'm trying to eliminate some John Halls and Thomas Halls (very common names by the looks of it). I think the Thomas Hall I'm after has a mother whose maiden name was Hoper (he was born in 1927) and his dad's name (from Thomas' marriage certificate in the 50s) is John Hall. However, I can't find a John Hall/Hoper wedding, or even a John Hall/+ other wedding which would correlate to any of the Thomas Halls from 1927.
I hope this makes sense and that someone could shed some light on it all!
I understand that "common-law marriages" were commonplace, but I would have thought people would have "made it official" more often than not by the 1920s! If they were in a "common-law marriage" the "wife" still take her "husband's" surname?
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Hi
marriage between Elizabeth Jane Smurthwaite and Joseph Kirtley
Was Elizabeth old enough to have been married previously? Just a thought - because she would have re-married under her married name - not her maiden name and may account for why you can't find it
Children born to the second marriage would show her maiden name as Smurthwaite as that was her actual maiden name
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Thanks for the reply!
I thought that too (she could have been a widow, I thought).
I found a marriage between a Joseph Kirtley and an Elizabeth Kail in Quarter 3, 1917 in Sunderland. Not sure if they gave their middle names when getting married. I know from doing ym own tree that sometimes they were omitted!!
I chased this lead up somewhat, but I couldn't find a previous Smurthwaite/Kail wedding, annoyingly!
It's quite frustrating!!!
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I have just been looking at Elizabeth Jane Smurthwaite birth entries on freebmd and the last one shown is 1890 so she would have been 37 when first Kirtley child was born and old enough to have possibly been married earlier
Possibility?
Marriages September qtr 1909 (checked on 1911 census)
Elizabeth Jane SMURTHWAITE Auckland 10a 438
Matthew Ellice R Colman
1911 shows her b 1887 and one child b 1910
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This Elizabeth Jane was b 1884 according to the 1911 census for Hartlepool
Samuel James Gough / Elizabeth Jane Smurthwaite
September qtr 1905 Hartlepool Volume: 10a Page: 269
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Do you know when Elizabeth died? Her death reg would show her age which would give us a clue to her birthyear
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I understand that "common-law marriages" were commonplace, but I would have thought people would have "made it official" more often than not by the 1920s! If they were in a "common-law marriage" the "wife" still take her "husband's" surname?
Just to point out that in England and Wales there is no such thing as "common law marriage" (in spite of what you sometimes see in the media), whereby unmarried persons who live together and behave as if they were married are treated as man and wife. It has not been possible to enter into an informal marriage in this country before and after the passage of Lord Hardwicke's Act in 1753.
There is a difference between using the term 'common law wife' and a 'common law marriage.'
A 'common law wife' may be a wife in fact but in law, common or otherwise, she has no such status.
Stan
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The Kirtley / Smurthwaite marriage took place in Carlisle Dec Q 1925 10b 924.
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And I think thomas Hall's mother's maiden name was Roper - birth Hall Thomas Tynemouth March Q 1927 10b 548.
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Marriage - John Hall to Annie Roper Dec Q 1926 Tynemouth 10b 393
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Hi All,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. In the middle of a house move and it been a bit hectic!!
Alpinecottage, thank you *so* much for your help. I'm using Ancestry, and none of the December 1925 images seem to line up correctly (for example, the "S" pages start on "Thomas, Sarah A." so I think something has gon wrong there, hence why I didn't find this sooner!
I had found a Smurthwaite in Carlisle, but assumed it wasn't the Smurthwaite I needed as I thought that side of the family was purely North-East based. I can now get the marriage certificate with your help... a massive thank you!
Thanks for the help with Thomas Hall too, this too has proved to be really helpful! I'm out of my rut! For the moment, anyway!
Best wishes,
Ben
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It is not just this page, this is a fault in all the Ancestry BMD transcriptions. No one seems to have used common sense and realised that indexing the last name on a page which was not in sequence would completely muck up the search facility. :)
Stan
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A pleasure! It was easy-peasy - I used Freebmd!