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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: chesters on Wednesday 02 September 09 16:39 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone help in transcribing this place name? The one I am after is the middle one.
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4392/denbigh.png)
Thanks,
Chesters.
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Could it be Tywyn, near Abergele?
Jen
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Hi chesters,
I thought the first letter was a G :-\ and ending in wern ???
Are there any capital Gs to compare it to?
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Hi Chesters
Can you give us the census reference, then we can look at the original for comparison :D
Linda
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Hi, thanks for quick replies.
Here is the full image:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/213/63790814.jpg
Also, I forgot to mention in 1851 (this image is 1861) he put his place of birth as Llanfechain in Montgomeryshire.
Chesters.
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It doesn't look like the G at the beginning of Gardener ( line four) to me. But I am struggling to see a letter which it does look like?
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I think it looks more like the I in Iron Bridge (2 lines below in original) than anything else
There are no uprights or tails, so we've probably got a lot of n, w, m, r, e etc. Could be any where in Wales really :D :D
Does anyone know where the old border was between Montgomeryshire and Denbighshire? That might narrow it down a bit as he seems to have crossed over between 1851 & 1861!
Linda
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genjen, I thought it was a T initially and it looks like the letter at the begining of the second place name, which I assume is Totham, Essex.
Chesters.
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Yes, It does look like that.
I am still inclined towards Tywyn - which is in Denbighshire - but incorrectly spelled "Tuwun". If you think about the pronunciation of the "y" in Welsh words, it is possible that whoever wrote it down thought that's how it was spelled. ???
Jen
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could be that Jen, although it is a way off Llanfechain and from Whittington and West Felton, where he lived when married.
Chesters.
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It looks like Trewern to me. I don't know of one in Denbighshire but there is one in Montgomeryshire - miles from the Denbighshire/Mont border thougfh - nearer Kington/Presteigne(Llanandras)
Gadget
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Yes much more likely a T than a G, I was looking at a curl on the letter below :-[
maidmarion
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There is a Gwern, just south west of Llanfechain
Tre just means town/township so it could be Trewern with the 'g' dropped/mutated
Gadget
Added - it's very much Mont/Denbs borders around there as well - Llangedwyn, etc.
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Thanks for all the help so far.
It doesn't look like this one's going to be very easy to solve :-\
Chesters.
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Given where he spent most of his life, it is unlikely to be on the Denbighshire coastline and more likely to be in north Montgomeryshire.
I've checked all my Montgomeryshire baptisms for 1790-1800 and can't find a suitable candidate. Was it possible that the family might have been non-conformists?
I'll get my local maps out :)
Gadget
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How about this Trewern:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=329465&y=333125&z=115&sv=329465,333125&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=615&ax=329465&ay=333125&lm=0
It's just to the west of Gobowen and NW of Whittington and just on the Shropshire side of the border with Denbighshire.
Having been born and brought up not far from there, the west side of the road was often regarded as part of Wales and not England.
Gadget
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I have had this sort of problem before. It is possible to put the unknown placename on the left of the screen and alongside it bring up the 1881 census.
At the bottom of the search page enter the country name ie Wales and then the county 'Denbighshire' and the next box are all the parishes in a sub box which you can scroll down and compare with the unknown place. Change the county and you will get all its places.
I have done this for Denbighshire and Flintshire and cannot find any match.
Trewern does appear in Montgomeryshire.
The boundaries for Flint and Denbigh have changed considerably since the Clwyd era. Even so Trewern is still a good way south of Denbighshire.
What does the previous census show as his place of birth?
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Hi Eldon
I don't think it's the Trewern in south Montgomeryshire that I saw on the Gazeteer and mentioned yesterday.
I've since focused on the area where he lived and where he said he was born on the 1851.
My money is either on the Trewern near Gobowen or the Gwern near Llanfechain but, given the Gobowen one is so close to Whittington and it would be known locally, I'm opting for that one.
Gadget
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Eldon, in 1851 he says he was born in Llanfechain.
yes Gadget, they do seem the most likely two. The only possible christening I have found so far in one in 1790 in Llansantffraid ym Mechain. I have no reason to believe he was non-conformist, he was married and his children were christened in a church.
Chesters.
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The word is Salop
Whittington must be in Shropshire
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I'm with Gadget - Trewern.