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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: dsjturner on Thursday 03 September 09 17:25 BST (UK)
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Hi!
I was just wondering whether anyone was researching the Bates family from the Forty Green/Penn area of Bucks?
I am particualrly interested if anyone has any connection to Joseph William Bates (1890) Charles Bates (1892) Alice Bates (1894) Albert Edward Bates (1895) and Emma Bates (1898) all born in Forty Green/Penn to Sarah and Joseph Bates.
I have recently identified some photos of them and would love to share them if anyone thinks they have a connection.
Daniel
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Hi Daniel
Maybe distantly connected to your Bates. Maria Jane Bates was my G Grandmother. She was born 1846 at Forty Green, daughter of Joseph (b1799 Penn) and Betsy Street. Joseph was the son of William Bates (b 1763 Penn) and Ann Perfect (b1769 Penn). So not directly linked but maybe distant cousins?
Christine
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Hi Christine!
Thanks you for your reply! I've had a look at my tree and I think there is a distant relation! William Bates and Ann Perfect are my 5 x Grandparents!! My 4 x Grandfather was James Bates who was the brother of your Joseph Bates.
I'm only a beginner so wouldn't even like to guess what kind of relation it is!!
Daniel
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Hi Daniel
I wouldn't know either. Some sort of cousin maybe? However many times removed ?
Happy researching
Christine
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ha ha yes something like that!! It's a relation somehow!
Daniel
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Shall I join in?
My husband's 4x grandfather is also James Bates. According to FTM kinship report that makes Daniel my hubby's 5th & 6th cousin.
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Hi alisont!
Yes join in the more the merrier!!! It's good to hear other people are related!
Daniel
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I have BATESes in Bucks, but much further north.
I have a Newman BATES (who doesn't seem to have a connection to the crowd of them in Drayton Parslow) who was part of the family in Wingrave.
I suspect he may have spent a chunk of time in London - but that might be another one!
He and his family ended up in Northall, with hatch/match/dispatch events in nearby Edlesborough.
Christine
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Hi, My grandfather was John Philip Bates (Jack) and his father was William. I think there were Josephs in the family too. William worked on the railway. A cousin has photographic evidence that he drove the royal train (King Edward, I presume). He was very tall and played a silver trombone in a local band. His wife was Sarah. MY grandfather had a twin, Dora who died quite young. Also in the family were Mabel, Nellie, Ethel, Basil and Gertrude. Sarah died in an old people's home in Winslow.
Might we be related?
Christine.
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Hi Christine,
Were your Bates from Penn? If so there is probably a connection somewhere. I don't think I have a direct link to any of the names but on the other hand most of my Bates past families had lots of childrens which I haven't researched. So it is possible that your Bates's are descended from a sibling that I don't have on my tree. So if they are from Penn could be distant cousins?
Regards
Luckygirl
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Hello!
I've looked on my tree and found 3 William Bates with sons called John! Do you know Williams dob at all?
Daniel
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Hi,
No. Idon't know those details. However, it seems my grandfather's grandparents were William and Arabella Bates of Fenny Sratford if that helps. They lived on a farm there called Yard's End. I think this William was born at Drayton Parslow. Arabella's maiden name may have been Mead because they also brought up Arabella's nephew called Merrick Mead who was possibly the illigitimate son of one of the Beecham family from Mursley (pill maker and also father of Sir Thomas Beecham). Mother was a maid at the Beecham family residence. The child was well provided for by somebody at any rate - more than could be accounted for by a servant's wages.
Thanks,
Christine Thompson.
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Hello!
None of those names ring any bells unfortunately. You never know though if we dig deep there may be a connection!!
Daniel
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Hi,
No. Idon't know those details. However, it seems my grandfather's grandparents were William and Arabella Bates of Fenny Sratford if that helps. They lived on a farm there called Yard's End. I think this William was born at Drayton Parslow. Arabella's maiden name may have been Mead because they also brought up Arabella's nephew called Merrick Mead who was possibly the illigitimate son of one of the Beecham family from Mursley (pill maker and also father of Sir Thomas Beecham). Mother was a maid at the Beecham family residence. The child was well provided for by somebody at any rate - more than could be accounted for by a servant's wages.
Thanks,
Christine Thompson.
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Hi christine
My grandfather was merrick mead. He was the iliegitimate son of Thomas beecham and Elizebeth Mead. He was sent to live with his aunt and uncle at the age of five. Philip and arabella bates. If you look at the 1901 census you will see them. Arabellas sister, Lois sewell married John Mead my great grandfather. Merrick had a short life he died tragically on the 12,8,1925 aged 32 he was married with three childen. My dad was his only son. If you look at Merricks full name MERRICK RICHARD BRIDGEMON MEAD, his mother was not aloud to use his real surname so she picked one of his middle names that most sounded like Beecham. Merrick is buried in a paupers grave in rugby were he died.
Julie Mead
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Thanks for all that. Just curious to know where the name "Merrick" came from. It's not a common name.
Christine.
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Hi christine, We are a very nautical family. Merrick means strong ruler of the sea. Is there any info you could share with me. Are the bates family aware of Merricks existence.
Regards Julie
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Is it a coincidence that there was a Mr Merrick Selby-Lowndes who lived in Mursley?
As a child, I was always told that my grandfather had been raised with an illegitimate member of the aristocracy but I didn't know who it was until very recently. Which Thomas Beecham was Merrick's father, the pill maker or the conductor?
What would you like to know about the Bates family? I think my grandfather might be what you would call a "lovable rogue". I loved him to bits as I think so did several of us grandchildren. Although, I think my grandmother and their children may have thought differently. He was quite fond of a drink and inclined to be bad-tempered when he'd had a few. I'm fairly sure he had an illegitimate child, a daughter who is about the same age as me. Legend also has it that he got expelled from a local school for "accidentally" locking the headmaster in a walk-in cupboard overnight. He joined the army under age at the start of the first world war and ended up in hospital in Barnards castle after being gassed. We were also told that his mother, Sarah, was the daughter of a vicar. It seems clear to me now that this was not true. However, Grandad used to talk about a Salvation Army chapel and I wonder if maybe Sarah's father was involved in preaching there. Grandfather was one of a big family of children but the only one I can ever remember meeting was called Aunt Tot who lived in Hillmorton, Rugby. I think she may have been Mabel and was called Aunt Tot because she was tall for a girl (grandad's father was also tall. I do actually have just one photo of this great-grandfather.
Christine.
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Hi Christine, Thomas Beecham, or old tom as he was known was born in 1820 witney oxon, he died in1907 he was the the one who started beechams pills and so fourth. One of his children was joseph beecham who was the father of sir thomas beecham the famous condutor so his grandfather was old tom .Joseph Beecham was Merricks half brother. One of old Toms sons died young and there was no course found, i have a heart defect that would have killed me, a heart electrical fault that kills young people, runs in familys. genes united are not always a good thing. How are are we related from the bates at yardend farm. Regards Julie
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Distantly, by marriage. Arabella was Merrick's great aunt on her side of the family and my great great grandmother. My grandfather was also brought up by Philip and Arabella (his grandparents) but was not a blood relative of Merrick because he was related through Philip's side of the family (the son of Philip and Arabella's son). Don't know what sort of relative this makes us.
Do you have any contact with the Beecham family? Have you researched Arabella's side of the family?
Christine.
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Hi christine, Arebella sewell was one of four childen. Lois, John and sarah, all born in little kimble bucks. There father was Edward and mother rebeca. Edward was a farm labourer, and rebeca was a turnpike gate keeper. Lois sewell was john meads second wife. They had twelve children. Bye the way Thomas Beecham was seventy and Elizebeth was twenty two went they had an afair, just after he got rid of his third wife. There was another illiegitmate child born to Thomas, a girl violet roberts born when Thomas was 80 years old. I have spoken to emma beecham Thomas beechams great great grandfather . She put me on to a book written by one of old toms great grandaughers, A guinea a box by anne francis. It is all about the beecham family, with a lot of family photos. Thomas was a terrible womaniser, emma new of the illiegitmate children, she said Thomas took care of them, he liked children. Is it possible there could be an old picture of merrick as a child with any of the bates family.
Regards julie
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Hi Christine, I forgot to mention, Merrick named his first child scissy after philip and Arabela's daughter Scissy was a mother to Merrick and he never forgot her.
julie
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Hi, I have never seen any photos of my grandfather or his siblings as a children. So no, I'm sorry, I don't have one of Merrick. Thinking about it, I guess Merrick and my grandfather were blood relatives. Something like second-cousins through Merrick's grandmother being Arabella's sister. Are there any dyslexics among your family members? Two of my children are dyslexic and I have carried out university research on dyslexia and am going to be teaching on it at university next term. I will talk about the genetics of dyslexia (not straightforward, possibly an inherited susceptibility) and it would be great if I could use my own family as an example. My grandfather always came across as an intelligent man but clearly preferred practical stuff. I also get the impression that he was the class clown. Possible signs of dyslexia.
Christine.
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Hi Chistine
Yes, i have dyslexia and so does my son. I was labeled backwards at school, but things moved on and my son was diagnosed early and had help, he also has dyspraxia. I was labeled clumsy. I have four children, three girls and a boy. They all have short term memory problems but are intelligent. My son was labeled disruptive at school before he was diagnosed, he also had frontal lobe epilepsy but grew out of it. let be know if i can be of help in your research. If you go to rugby advertiser and search FAMILY RESEACH FINDS TRAGIC STORY, you can read what happened to Merrick.
Regards Julie
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Well. That's interesting! I'm not dyslexic although I do vere in that direction and I certainly underachieved at school. My teachers would be amazed at what I now do professionally. A couple of my children (the dyslexic ones) are also clumsy. However, there is a fair amount of crossover between dyspraxia (also known as Developmental Co-ordination Disorder), ADHD and dyslexia (and, anecdotally, Asperger's -also in my family). The jury's still out on whether these are separable conditions or different places on a more general spectrum. My take on it though is that these are differences not deficits. They all have an "up side" as well as a "down". It's just society's current obsession with literacy and the need to account for underachievement that has transformed them into deficits. With 10% of the population diagnosed dyslexic and possibly a further 10% undiagnosed, it simply does not stack up for all these people to be "abnormal".
Christine.
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Hi there, I've just joined the forum and sorry to jump in on your thread but I'm interested in the dyslexia angle. I'm through the Fenny Stratford/Drayton Parslow Bates' with my GGF being William Kightley Bates b 1856 in Fenny Stratford and his parents were David Bates & Elizabeth Purcell, I imagine that there must be a relationship to William & Arabella as they are all from Fenny Stratford but I don't know how. The point is that I'm mildly dyslexic but my son is severly dyslexic, problems with short term memory and has just started adult literacy/numeracy classes - is this a Bates curse ???.
Strangely, our family legend also talks of an illegitimate link to nobility and also that Howard (my middle name) is a link to an old family surname but yet to find that link.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
I don't think of dyslexia as a curse, just a difference that societal attititudes make into a disability. Interestingly, although figures for dyslexia are the same world-wide, it's less noticeable in languages such as Spanish and Italian where the spelling system is straightforward.
Christine.
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Hi Christine,
Many thanks for the response, perhaps to call it a curse was a bit strong but I'm intrigued how it exists in several lines of the same family, I can understand the language angle.
I've found a link in our lines and we have a common Philip Bates who is my 7th GGF B 1658 in Drayton Parslow but through a different spouse (I can find 3 for him).
Phil
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The genetics of dyslexia are still not fully understood but it definitely runs in families. I'm sure we'd be a good family for researchers to investigate as it runs through so many different lines. Of course, we can only speculate about former members of our family possibly being dyslexic but it's a fascinating topic. Do you know of any other members of your family who might be dyslexic?
Any ideas who the illegitimate link to nobility was in your family or might it have been Merrick Mead?
Christine.
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Hi Christine,
Fascinating and to think that it would appear that its been in the family for at least 350 years. We breed dogs and would hope to breed out a "defect" in 5 or 6 generations providing we don't double up on it. Sorry I can't help with any others as I lost touch with my grandfathers siblings families 50 odd years ago.
Our family legends suggest that there is a Bates family crest and that the name Howard is an old family surname, so I would think that Merrick Mead is too recent but then family legends often get confused and mixed but I get the impression that the illegitimacy legend if its true dates back to the 1500's or earlier. I'm currently stalled with my 9th GGF John Bates who was born 1585 in DP and married a Mary Rutland.
Phil
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Ok. Dyslexia would have been an evolutionary advantage in times past and probably still is in some non-literacy-dependent cultures. To be able to think outside of the box, which dyslexics can often do, would be just the kind of person you'd want in charge in many situations. Did you know Winston Churchill was dyslexic? I don't go with the idea that all dyslexics are geniuses by the way, just that dyslexia is a particular manifestation of "normal" which confers particular cognitive advantages, creativity often being one of them. Just the same really as some of us being better at maths and others at languages. We would never dream of describing those of us who struggle with one of these as being "defective". Dyslexics are however disadvantaged in a society which equates being literate with being intelligent. Your son just has a range of talents that are currently undervalued by society.
In terms of the Bates family, they could well have added to the dyslexic gene pool through their marriage partners. Hope you manage to find your thread of the family.
Christine.
Christine.
Christine.
Christine.
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Yes, I agree that over the generations there must have been some doubling up of the problematic genes and that it isn't all down to the Bates males. My son does have a high level of intelligence but struggles with English & Maths but now he has started classes - they call them ALAN around here he has come to realise that he isn't that bad off as there are some that also struggle but also have a low level of intelligence to go with it.
Many thanks for your help and I'll let you know if I find the link.
Best wishes
Phil