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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: JamesSut on Tuesday 04 May 04 21:41 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Chris in 1066Land has already helped me out greatly with various lookups in the 1841/51 censuses for Hastings. I now need to move further afield in Sussex, apart from one or two more Hastings ones! Any help with the following greatly appreciated in any census 1841 - 1871.
I know it's a lot to plough through. I've enclosed an image showing how some of them fit together (our best guess).
Thanks in advance,
James
1) Peter Shaw born c.1813 South Malling, East Sussex.
Living in Southeram, South Malling 1850.
I think he died late 1881 but can't find him in online 1881 census.
John Shaw, his son born Dec 1849
Elizabeth Shaw, his daughter born 1847
2) Harriet Divall born c.1820 Fletching, East Sussex (married Peter Shaw 1842 in South Malling)
3) William Divall born c.1790 Ringmer, East Sussex
Lived Fletching 1816-1837 at least, with wife Jane and lots of children born in that time period inc. Harriet.
4) George Hemmings Watson born 1810s?
Living Rope Walk in Rye 1839, a hairdresser
Wife Jane (formerly Huckstep)
Is Huckstep a common surname? Her parents may be Nathaniel and Mary Ann
5) George Hemmings Watson born 1839 in Rye, East Sussex (Rope Walk)
6) Zebulun Swain born before 1784, daughter Maria born in Hasting c.1804
7) Frederick Isaac Willy born 1837 St Pancras, Middlesex
Married Sarah Willard Saint Clements, Hastings in 1863
1871 census would be helpful
8 ) Sarah Willard born c.1838 Etchingham, Sussex
Father Robert Willard, mother Mary Wackford
see marriage above
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Hi
Here are some Shaw burials from South Malling
1807 July 13 Shaw Ruth f
1820 July 9 Shaw Nathaniel m age 6 T.P
1830 April 2 Shaw Richard m 60 years T.P
1830 Nov 25 Shaw Daniel m infant T.P
1834 April 14 Shaw Silas m 25 years Southover
1840 July 1 Shaw William m 50 years Surrey
1846 July 5 Shaw Hannah f 35 years T.P
1853 June 9 Shaw Martha f 1 year 8 months T.P
As you can probably see, your Richard is amongst them
Chris in 1066Land
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Thanks Chris,
I think Hannah Shaw is one of his children (age at death matches DOB). I'm assuming these are dates of burial, not dates of death, is this right?
James
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Hi James
Yes, you are quite correct - they are date of Burial as transcribed from the Burial Register.
I am slowly trying to work my way through the rest of your big list - but no promises!
Chris in 1066Land
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Hello all,
From my original list above, I now think 6) Zebulon Swaine was born in 1769, which may be too early to appear on the 1841 census. I have two more generations of Zebulon Swain(e)s though, born 1788 and 1815, do they appear on any early censuses for Hastings? In 1881 I have parts of this Swaine family living at 2 and 9 Woods Passage, Hastings. Who was living as those addresses in earlier censuses?
Any help appreciated,
James
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Hi James
HO 107/1 Folios 1 19; All Saints, Hastings.
All Saints Street
SMITH Mary, 60, born in Sussex
FRENCH Sarah, 60, Sussex
SWAIN Zeb, 55, Fisherman, born in Sussex
Lucy, 55, Sussex
Zebulon, 25, Labourer, born Sussex
SWAIN William, 35, Fisherman, born Sussex
Mary, 35, Sussex
Charlotte, 9, Sussex
Mary, 7, Sussex
William, 4, Sussex
Ann, 4months, Sussex
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi James
1) Peter Shaw born c.1813 South Malling, East Sussex.
Living in Southeram, South Malling 1850.
I think he died late 1881 but can't find him in online 1881 census.
John Shaw, his son born Dec 1849
Elizabeth Shaw, his daughter born 1847
1851 Census
HO 107/ 1643/ Folio 309/ Page 112 Southerham Farm, South Malling, Lewes.
SHAW Peter, Head, Marr, 37, Ag Lab, born South Malling
Harriett, Wife, Marr, 31, born Fletching, Sussex
Peter, Son, Unm, 7, South Malling
Silas, Son, Unm, 6, South Malling
Elizabeth, Dau, Unm, 4, South Malling.
Harriett, Dau, Unm, 2, South Malling
John, Son, Unm, 1, South Malling
Chris in 1066Land
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Thanks again Chris,
I'm pretty sure now that the Zebulon Swain(e) born in 1769 was dead by 1841. His wife's name was Ann (nee Tolhurst in c.1766), is there a 74ish year old Ann Swain in that area of Hastings? a long shot, I know.
The Shaw household you have found for us gives us more siblings and ties in nicely with the date of the marriage certificate we have on 27th Mar 1842 on which they both give their residence as Southerham. Do you have the 1841 census for Southerham as well? :) Are there any Shaws or Divalls?
Just found that bits of the Downs round Southerham Farm are now a nature reserve, may pop down for a visit one weekend.
http://www.sussexdownsmen.org.uk/downsmen/conservation.html (http://www.sussexdownsmen.org.uk/downsmen/conservation.html)
Cheers,
James
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James
Hastings - All Saints Burial Register
1839
Zebra Swaine St Clements Parish, 1st Feb 1839 aged 74 years.
Sorry no sign of Ann aged about 74 in the 1841 census for Hastings, she does not appear in the burial Register records I have either (1813 1853)
Sorry, do not have the 1841 for Southerham
Chris in 1066Land
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James
4) George Hemmings Watson born 1810s?
Living Rope Walk in Rye 1839, a hairdresser
Wife Jane (formerly Huckstep)
Is Huckstep a common surname? Her parents may be Nathaniel and Mary Ann
1851 Census Rye
HO 107/ 1634/ Folio 354/ Page 138 Rope Walk, Rye
WATSON George, Head, Wid, 35, Hairdresser, born Rye, Sussex.
George, Son, Unm, 11, Scholar, born Rye
Rebecca, Dau, Unm, 9, Scholar, born Rye
Although there are 17 people in and around rye with the surname Huckstep / Huckstepp in the 1851 census, there is not a Nathaniel or a Mary Ann
Chris in 1066Land
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James
8 ) Sarah Willard born c.1838 Etchingham, Sussex
Father Robert Willard, mother Mary Wackford
see marriage
1841 Census
HO107/1 108/6 Folio 1-15 Etchingham
WILLARD Robert, 30, Ag Lab, born Sussex
Mary, 25, Sussex
Mary, 7, Sussex
Harriet, 6, Sussex
Frances, 4, Sussex
Robert, 2, Sussex
Sarah, 5months, Sussex
1851 Census
HO107/ 1639/ Folio 201/ Page 57 Hurst Green, Etchingham, Sussex
WILLARD Robert, Head, Marr, 46, Ag Lab, born Salehurst
Mary Ann, Wife, Marr, 40, Ticehurst, Sussex
Robert, Son, Unm, 12, Scholar, born Etchingham
Sarah, Dau, Unm, 10, Scholar, born Etchingham
Ellen, Dau, Unm, 8, Scholar, born Etchingham
Frederick, Son, Unm, 5, Scholar, born Etchingham
Horace, Son, Unm, 3, born Etchingham
HO107/ 1639/ Folio 166/ Page 42 Tunbridge Wells Branch Railway
WILLARD Harriett, Servant, Unm, 17, House Servant, born Etchingham, Sussex.
In the home of Charles Edward Wilkes, Civil Engineer of Railway
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for yet more useful info. Knowing a more accurate DOB for George Watson helped me find him on the 1881 census, living with his unmarried sister Mary Watson, who was aged 75. Is there a 45 year old unmarried Mary Watson living in Rye in 1851? Hopefully with her parents! (who may have been John and Margaret).
I will digest the Willard info tomorrow.
James
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Hi James
Is there a 45 year old unmarried Mary Watson living in Rye in 1851? Hopefully with her parents! (who may have been John and Margaret).
Unfortunately there is only 1 Margaret Watson, but she is 43 and Married to William Watson, Marrinere - so not much help there.
Margaret Watson, Head, Widow, 79, Gentlewoman Land / Fund Holder, born in Rye is listed as living in Middle Street, Rye.
There is only 1 John watson, aged 5
Chris in 1066Land
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hi James
if you don't already know about it, this page has a lookup system too just for sussex, so if no one at rootschat can help you someone there might be able to.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/w.jowett/sussexlookup.html
Tara
p.s. other counties have them too :) just type in: lookup exhange england and your county in a search engine and shouldn't be too hard to find.
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I have just stumbled rather belatedly upon this correspondence through an Internet search. I can confirm that Zebulon Swaine, born 6th August 1769, was in fact dead by the time of the 1841 Census. A report of the inquest on his death was carried in the Hasting Chronicle for 2 Feb 1839 (held in Hastings Library). The text reads: Sudden Death
An inquest on the body of Zebulan Swain, was held at the Cutter Inn, on Tuesday, the 29th inst., before J.G.Shorter, Esq., coroner
William Swaine, fisherman, deposed that he was son of the deceased, and was with him on the 28th Jan., near the beach. Deceased was speaking to his son Zebulon, when he fell backwards, and spoke no more. He had been living in the County house [ie Hastings Union Poor Law institution]; he quite prized it, and was satisfied with his treatment there in every respect; has said he would rather be there than anywhere. Had generally met him to assist him up and down the hill; he has never been subject to fits before. Deceased had a cup of coffee and a piece of bread in the morning, at a gentleman's house in the square. He was 74 years of age.
Frederick Ticehurst deposed that he was a surgeon, and also attended at the Union house. Knew deceased in that establishment; he had been subject to a dropsical affection of the chest for many years, but had never undergone any operation; had taken medicine for it. Came to him soon after 11 o'clock yesterday, but he was dead; thinks he came by his death from the disease alluded to. Any sudden exertion in his state might occasion death.
The jury returned a verdict of "Died by the visitation of God."
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Thanks to Chris, Tara and Peter for their replies.
I hadn't seen the lookup exchange site, I may give people on there a try for info (and look for other counties).
The newpaper story on the inquest into the death of Zebulo/u/an Swaine in very interesting. I'm slightly surprised there was an inquest, considering he was 74 and known to be ill by his own doctor. I like the 'Died by the visitation of God' verdict. This seemed to be the standard verdict when the death was not suspicious, I wonder when they stopped using it.
James
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Hi Chris,
I noticed that you now have the 1841 census for Rye. Are the two George Hemmings Watsons there in Rope Walk? They should be aged 25 and 1. Hopefully Jane was still living (and with them).
Cheers,
James
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Hi James
Yes, they are there in the Rope Walk
1841 Census Rye, Sussex
HO107/1109/5 Folios 19 39; Rope Walk, Rye, Sussex
WATSON George, 25, Hairdresser, born in Sussex
Jane, 25, born in Sussex
George, 2, born in Sussex.
Chris in 1066Land
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Thanks again Chris :) I now know Jane was born in Sussex at least.
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Hi James
Re WILLARD
From the information you have can you see any connection to the following Willard family from Etchingham, Sussex
William Willard, b. abt 1818 Etchingham
+Hannah, b. abt 1821
..James Willard b. abt 1857
..+Diana, b. abt 1860 Fairlight, Sussex
....Ernest Willard, b. abt 1882 Eastbourne
....William James Willard, b. abt 1884 Jevington
....Albert Edward Willard, b. abt 1886 Jevington
....Charles Willard, b. abt 1888 Jevington
....Annie Willard, b. abt 1890 Wannock
....+George Nelson Ranger, b.22 Jun 1887 Eastbourne, d. 4 Oct 1983
Eastbourne, m. 3 Oct 1914
..Jane Willard b. abt 1860
..Albert Willard b. abt 1863
I am a decendant of Annie Willard & George Ranger and would like to hear of any connection there may be.
Regards
David
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Hi David,
I'm assuming this is your William Willard in the 1881 census with Hannah and Albert:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/household_record.asp?HOUSEHOLD_CODE=1881BR_1112804
He's listed as being born in Salehurst (not too far from Etchingham).
We have a Robert Willard born c. 1804. His Christening on the IGI in 1808 in Salehurst gives his parents as Robert Willard and Sarah.
They could be brothers, but I've got no link.
James
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James,
I found your post by 'Googling' for 'Frederick Isaac WILLY', born 21 Apr 1837, St Pancras, London. I've just added him to my tree.
His parents were Thomas WILLY (b1799 South Petherton, Somerset) and Elizabeth ?? (b1806 St Marylebone). I haven't found a marriage yet.
My interest is in Thomas's sister Ann WILLY, born 1798 South Petherton. She was my 3g-grandmother.
I have the census information if you still require it.
Best regards,
John
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Hello John,
Thanks for your post, the attached image shows the three oldest levels of the Willy tree we have so far. All Centuries, Decades and Years listed in our tree are plus or minus one.
The Ranney surname is a bit of a guess at the moment based on a marriage on the IGI in Paddington.
The oldest census we have is Frederick Isaac lodging in Hastings in 1861, any info you have before that would be greatly appreciated. We don't yet have the link to Somerset ourselves.
Look forward to hearing from you,
James
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Hello James,
Thank you for posting the image. The 1828 marriage to Elizabeth RANNEY is certainly a possibility. Its on Pallotts Index and says they are Widow and Widower, so an earlier marriage to look for.
Some census information...
1851 Census
5 Thanet Street
Grays Inn Lane, St Pancras, Middlesex
Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship
Thomas Willy abt 1800 South Petherton, Somerset, England Head, Joinr. Carpenter
Elizth Willy abt 1806 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Wife
Thomas Willy abt 1833 Pancras, Middlesex, England Son, Apprentice to Cardmaker
Fredk Willy abt 1838 Pancras, Middlesex, England Son
Elizth Willy abt 1846 Pancras, Middlesex, England Daughter
1841 Census - Ref HO107 682 2 f27
5 Thanet Street, St Pancras
Thomas Willey 40 Carpenter
Elizabeth 35
Thomas 8
Frederick 4
John 5 months
All born in County
[kindly provided today by Barbara]
I have Thomas WILLY born 5 Sep 1799 South Petherton, Somerset. His parents were Thomas and Christian. Thomas was born 20 Apr 1767 but I've not been able to find him anywhere - the name and date is written on a small piece of card my mother has. I found a marriage for Thomas WILLY and Christian BROWN 3 Dec 1791 Yeovil, Somerset. I think this is probably the right one.
Best regards,
John
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Hello James
I've recently taken up researching my dads side of the family-the Watsons,
and I note you are looking into George Hemmings Watson. He is my great grandad, and my great
great grandad!
They shared the same name and both were hairdressers.
Only yesterday ( 16-10-15) I received one of the Georges' birth certificates with his
mums maiden name, Huckstep-this spelling is illegible on the certificate so when I saw your
post I was really pleased I had identified it.
Rope Walk was their residence in 1839.
I have some more certificates and other info if you're interested.
Alan
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Hello Alan,
I see from one of your other posts that your grandfather was a George Albert Watson. Was he born in 1903?
This could be him in our WorldConnect tree:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=ellensut&id=I19613 (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=ellensut&id=I19613)
We didn't have his middle name as we were working down this branch through the censuses/FreeBMD and there were two George Watsons born in Hastings R.D. in 1903.
George Hemmings Watson (b. 1839) was my wife's 3xGreat Grandfather, through Ethel May Shaw:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=ellensut&id=I10169 (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=ellensut&id=I10169)
We have the same birth cert. as you. We also have a copy of the baptism record of his father (George Hemmings Watson) from 1815.
We've not managed to find his marriage to Jane Huckstep in the 1830s.
James
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Hello James
My granddad George Albert Watson was born in 1903. He died in 1965 when I was
2 years old. He is buried in the Hastings Borough Council Cemetery in a common grave with
just a number! I obtained this information from the Register Office in Hastings.
I've been meaning to visit but haven't got round to doing it yet.
His wife Margaret Grace is buried in the same cemetery as is their daughter, my aunty Kay.
What a small world. I think Jane Watson nee Huckstep died in 1845?
Regards
Alan
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Hello james
Is there anymore information you would like post G.A.Watson?
Alan
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Hello,
In a prior post, many years ago, there was a question about Elizabeth Willey's maiden name, with reference to the 1841 and 1851 census records for her husband Thomas Willey of Grays Inn Lane)(5 Thanet Street), Saint Pancras Parish, Middlesex.
My current inclination is that the following may well be the applicable marriage for Thomas and Elizabeth: at St. Mary, Lambeth, on August 4, 1833, Thomas Willey otp bachelor married Elizabeth Playfer (Playser?) otp spinster. Both signed the register. Witnesses were Jas. Longman Gawler and John Seager. This fits quite well with the birth of the 8 year old son Thomas in the 1841 census.
Bill
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Hello Bill,
We think we've found their two younger children's births (Thomas Q1 1841 and Elizabeth Mary Emma Q1 1846) on the GRO website with mother's maiden name Matthews. Although we haven't paid our £7 each to confirm it's them.
We're then thinking that Elizabeth Matthews first married a Ranney, but can't find that marriage.
The eldest child Thomas was born 5th May 1833 according to his baptism in 1835, there's a note above the date which we can't read (image attached).
James
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I don't have access to the actual image of the baptism of Thomas, but as I write this I am looking at the familysearch.org transcription, which shows Thomas Willey (not Willy), birth date 5 May 1833, christening date 6 Dec 1835 at Old Church, Saint Pancras, London. Parents Thomas and Elizabeth Willey. I think maybe the image in your post says: "said to be born 5 May 1833".
For Thomas Willy born in South Petherton in 1799, I just found an 1870 death registration - 4th quarter Pancras R.D., age 71.
I have not been able to find Thomas' location in 1861. He was definitely not at 5 Thanet Street.
Son John Willy seems to have died in 1845. There is a Pancras R.D. death registration.
I have found son Frederick in Hastings, Sussex and he married and raised a large family.
Nothing known yet about Elizabeth Mary Emma that you mention.
Bill
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The eldest child Thomas was born 5th May 1833 according to his baptism in 1835, there's a note above the date which we can't read (image attached).
James
Said to be born
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With respect to Thomas Willey and Christian Brown (married 1791 in Yeovil, Somerset), they baptized the following children at the Roundwell Independent Chapel in South Petherton:
* Elizabeth 29 Sept 1793
* Sarah 21 Jan'y 1794
* Mary 8 Mar 1795
* Mary 21 Apr 1796
* Ann 19 Jan'y 1798
* Thomas 5 Sep 1799
* John Hillard 8 Jun 1801
Christian (Brown) Willy was buried in South Petherton Parish on 8 July 1801.
I understand that John who has posted in this thread is descended from Ann (1798). John, do you know where widower Thomas went after Christian died and whether Thomas remarried? Where was your Ann married and who was her husband?
Bill
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With respect to Thomas Willey and Christian Brown (married 1791 in Yeovil, Somerset), they baptized the following children at the Roundwell Independent Chapel in South Petherton:
* Elizabeth 29 Sept 1793
* Sarah 21 Jan'y 1794
* Mary 8 Mar 1795
* Mary 21 Apr 1796
* Ann 19 Jan'y 1798
* Thomas 5 Sep 1799
* John Hillard 8 Jun 1801
Christian (Brown) Willy was buried in South Petherton Parish on 8 July 1801.
I understand that John who has posted in this thread is descended from Ann (1798). John, do you know where widower Thomas went after Christian died and whether Thomas remarried? Where was your Ann married and who was her husband?
Bill
Bill, just got back to this after a long break!
I don't know what happened to Thomas WILLY but his daughter Ann WILLY married Samuel CROSS at St Marylebone 23 Nov 1825. Samuel was born in 1786 at Great Warley, Essex.
John