RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: excookie on Tuesday 01 September 09 21:10 BST (UK)
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Hi firstly this is a great site and I am fairly new to it.
I have come to a stop on my family tree although I am well down the road is there anyone out there that has any info about Charles Chaloner abt 1745 Holt area Flintshire Wales married to Mary Matthews.
Many thanks.
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Lots of Chaloners / Challinors in my tree (No Charles though)
Check out the web link on the left ....
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Hello there,
I have just started investigating a friend's ancestry.
My friend descends from Timothy Chaloner, bap. 10 Nov 1833 in Holt (s/o George and Anne).
The IGI includes a great number of records; have either of you perhaps sorted them into families?
Justin
PS We should move this to Denbighshire.(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: now moved :)
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many thanks ;)
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hi my name is kirsty chaloner i am situated i chester flint my grandad was clifford chaloner from the lache chester i am investigating the family tree and i would like any information on the chaloners from holt as i have found that my grandfather was the nephew of william chaloner (bill) from holt whom to my knowledge was the main chaloner who started off in holt and found that williams granfather samual chaloner was a basket maker by trade. i have learnt that the ancestors i am looking for now own a scrapyard in llay near wrexam. if anybody can help i would be very grateful or if anybody is related to the same chaloner family please contact me.
kind regards
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Hi Kirsty
sorry my other half is excookie did you get my reply ?
challo
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I am descended from Martha Pemberton, who married basket maker Timothy Chalenor in Wrexham in 1850 and thence lived with him in Holt, Denbighshire, baring him five children from 1851-9: Emma, Timothy, Arthur, George and Samuel John. Would be very pleased to hear from their descendents, please reply to thread or PM me.
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Hi steVP.
sorry but have none of yours in my tree.good luck on your research
challo
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My grandfather five times removed was George Chaloner and his brother was Charles Chaloner born 1745 in Holt,Denbighshire.Charles married Mary Matthews on the 17th August 1771 in Holt,Denbighshire.Mary Matthewswas born in 1761 and she died in Holt,Denbighshire in 1840 and they had four surviving children.I am a descendant of that tree and I have been doing this tree for a long time and might be able to help you if you are interested.Kind Regards.
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Hi mr pinkwhistle.
I am a descendant of thomas 1780, I have gone back as far as john chaloner abt 1695 married to margaret williams 1694/95 and I think I have the fathers of both,timothy chaloner and john williams, have you any more info on them.
regards
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I hope this helps.John chaloners father was Timothy Chaloner and mother was Ann.Timothy was born in 1667 and he and Ann married on the 6th May 1703.Timothy's father was John Chaloner(spelt Chaleneur) who was born 1640 and mother was Debra Brettorgh born 1645.They were married in 1667 in Chester,Cheshire.The Thomas born 1780 whom you talk about married Elizabeth Ellis on the 8th October 1824.He died in Rosett on the 2nd March 1853.Elizabeth was born 1785 and she also died in 1871 in Rosett.I hope this helps.If you need anything else let me know.Kind Regards.
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My Challenor line stretches to Edward, born in Gresford, around 1747. Two sons, Edward (1786-) and David (1784- my 4*great grandfather) were transported to Van Diemans's Land in 1833. I'd like to trace the family back further, and find links to other descent lines. Locations of interest are Chester environs, wider Cheshire, Staffordshire, Denbighshire & Flintshire. Of course I'd love to find what happened to the transported brothers but the trail runs cold in the 1840's.
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Edward and David Chaloner were eventually pardoned and interestingly someone was trying to find them in 1876 I think in the Police Gazette in Australia under missing persons. I came across them in the criminal records and I was seeing if they were linked to the Chaloners from Holt but there seemed to be no link to that line. I will have a look and see what else I have got for you as I kept some of the records just incase. I will do it tomorrow.
Kind Regards
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For the person interested in Edward Chaloner who was transported to Australia along with his brother from Denbighshire (born 1782) he was convicted of sheep stealing and sentenced to life .He was convicted on the 16th March 1833 at Ruthin. He was initially transferred to the Prison Hulk Ship The Justitia at Woolwich and was then transported on the 11th July 1833 aboard the Isabella to Van Diemens Land. After nearly fourteen years he was released on a ticket of leave and it was said he was a person on good conduct. On the 28th June 1876 in the New South Wales Gazette somebody was appealing for his whereabouts via the police on page 202.They believed he died 10 years previously. From what I can see he died in Victoria around 1871. I will send more information about David Challenor shortly.
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A bit more information regarding Edward and David Chaloner-David Chaloner was also convicted at Ruthin on the 16th March 1833 after being convicted for receiving stolen goods-the sheep.His trial along with his brother was in Lent 1833.Like his brother he was then transferred to the Prison Hulk Ship The Justitia and then transferred to the Isabella which set voyage on the 11th July 1833 to Van Diemens Land. David received a ticket of leave and pardon between 41 and 42 and his conduct was listed as good. Hope this helps.
Kind Regards.
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Thanks, I now have records of conviction in 1819 (David), although not the circumstances, and I have convictions (along with accomplice David Roberts), Justicia in Woolwich, Isabella to VDL Jul-Nov 1833, three convict musters, Tickets of Leave ('41 & '42) and pardons ('42 & '47). The Edward "Challnor" death in '61, Vic. is as close to finding anything that matches both Edward and the Police Gazette notice.
As far as the rest of their families - I have substantial info on their sister Christina Challenor Richardson's descendants, and both David's wife Jane Tiltson's ancestors, and their [only child] son James' descendants - which include me.
Missing info on Edward's wife and daughters [ignoring infant death of son] - all I have is unsourced names and dates ... ditto for Edward and David's parents.
My main interest in David is his history pre 1819 and post 1842 - the circumstances of his trial for Murder/manslaughter and if there was any sign of him in the Aust. colonies after his pardon.
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I'd be grateful if someone could tell me the sources for their conclusion that Timothy Chalinor is John Challinor's father. This lead to Debra Brettorgh is an important one as her surname has been misread. It should be Brettargh. Her father is a James Brettargh and his family is easy to trace back to Elizabethan times. The Brettarghs are an old well established family from Little Woolton near Liverpool with roots well into the Middle Ages.
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Hi,
Further to my last, as mentioned, I would be grateful for some firm evidence that Timothy is the father of the John Challinor, who married Margaret Williams. There are at least three possible fathers for this John. The first being the baptism of John to father Timothy in Chester on 1 Jan 1695, the second being the baptism of John in Bulmer to father John on 5 Jul 1698, and the third being the baptism to father John in Middlewich on 31 Dec 1695. (Bulmer is only about 10 miles from Holt). I would be thrilled if we could prove the link to Debra Brettargh as this this would open a link to Medieval families, but we need to get this right.
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I'm interested too Dick, the John married to Margaret Williams is my 7th great grandfather, in 1720 (after his marriage) he was made freeman of Chester and described as 'son of Timothy'
What I'd like to know more about is the details of Timothy's dob, Timothy and Ann's marriage, and his parents, that have been posted above, hopefully mr pinkwhistle will return :)
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Hi Linda,
Thanks for your message. I'm delighted that we've got some proof that Timothy is John's father. Can you post the link on this site?
As mentioned, we are trying to confirm the data supplied by Mr Pinkwhistle, who unfortunately has not responded to any of the concerns raised. Timothy was christened on 1 Jan 1695 at St Olave's, Chester. Mr Pinkwhistle has John Chaloner and Debra as Timothy's parents. However, the John Chaleneur and Debra Brettargh to whom her refers were married on 23 Mar 1667. This is almost a thirty year gap between the marriage and the birth of Timothy (Debra appears to have been born on 8 Feb 1653 to father James Brettargh (1625 - 1665). This gap would make it most unlikely that she was the mother (she would have been aged 44 or 45 at the time of Timothy's birth). Not impossible, just unlikely.
However, as mentioned, if Deborah is Timothy's mother, this would be a most exciting development. I already have an outline tree taking Deborah back to the Brettarghs of Brettargh Holt, near Liverpool. This family goes back to the 13th/14th century with links to many other families.
As such, I am very keen to make sure that we get this link right and we really need Mr Pinkwhistle to confirm his sources.
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Hi Dick
it was John christened 1695 Timothy's son
Timothy as his father, could well have been born in 1660s so there wouldn't be a big gap
which is why I wanted Mr Pinkwhistle to explain his post
re John
23 Apr 1717 John Challinor of Holt, co. Denbigh, barber and Margaret Williams of Holt, spr.
26 Sep 1720-1 John s. of Timothy Chaloner, yeoman, and p. of Stephen Soane of Chester, periwigmaker.
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Hi Linda,
Am trying to put together sources.
Have got your source re. John being granted freeman of City of Chester and being the son of Timothy and patron of Stephen Soane (periwigmaker) http://www.mocavo.co.uk/The-Rolls-of-the-Freemen-of-the-City-of-Chester-Part-Ii-1700-1805-Volume-55/680824/57
However, have still not found your other source re. the 23 Apr 1717 with John's occupation of barber. Clearly the barber connection would link him with Stephen Soane- periwigmaker Could you send me the link.
I have not yet found it, but I think there may be a will. I'll see if I can pin it down.
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First name(s) JOHN
Last name CHALLINOR
Marriage year 1717
Marriage date 23 Apr 1717
Marriage place CHESTER
Parish St. Oswald
Spouse's first name(s) Margerett
Spouse's last name Williams
City or town Chester
County Cheshire
Country England
Reference item 3 p 84
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain
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no will that I know of but he was administrator of his mother Ann's estate
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Thank you Linda for the information sent.
However, there are still problems.
Mr Pinkwhistle had Timothy born in 1667 to John Chaleneur and Debra Brettargh. He also has Timothy as marrying a lady called Ann on 6 May 1703.
I now have no doubts that a Timothy Challinor, Yeoman, was the father of the John Challinor, who married Margaret Williams in 1717.
The problem is that I have now found a record of a Timothy Challinor baptised on 6 Dec 1666 in Huyton by Roby (very much Brettargh country) to a William Challinor. This William Challinor was baptised in Huyton by Roby on 29 Apr 1646.
There are at least two problems here. There is clearly at least one alternative father to the Timothy provided by Mr Pinkwhistle. The other problem is that we know John Challinor married Margaret Williams on 23 Apr 1717. If Mr Pinkwhistle is right and this John is the son of the Timothy Challinor, who married Ann in 1703, John would have aged 14 at best on his marriage to Margaret Williams.
Also , I don't think John would have received the Freedom of the city of Chester in 1721 at the tender age of 17 or 18. That doesn't make sense. As a barber (presumably a well respected one and possibly a wig maker as well), he would have had to have gone through his apprenticeship and trading independently before any such honour would be given.
Given the date of his marriage and the honour of Freeman, the earlier baptismal date of 1 Jan 1695 to father William would be much more likely., ie 22 when married, and 26/27, when he received the Freedom of the City and even that age would be good going to be honoured as a Freeman.
Again, we need Mr Pinkwhistle to confirm his sources.
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but John's baptism in 1695 states he was son of Timothy, so there definitely was a John Chaloner born in 1695 with a father Timothy and that Timothy must have married before 1695
so it therefore follows that there was a Timothy Chaloner married sometime before 1703
I'm fairly sure the confusion is because Timothy (father of John) was made freeman of Chester in 1703/04 by petiton and this document can be found in a book called Marton Marriages. Addenda Et Corrigenda. (Marriage) so some people are assuming it's a marriage record, whereas I've actually seen this 1703 record and it is a petition for freeman
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I am not arguing that a John Challinor was born in 1695 to a father called Timothy. The problem is "who were Timothy's parents. There is the Timothy born in 1665 to John Chandler and Debra Brettargh, and there is the Timothy baptised on 6 Dec 1666 in 'Huyton by Roby' to father William Challinor.
Attached is a ref: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J389-LYR
We need to be certain.
The excellent information you provided about Timothy being made a Freeman in 1703 could be the key. I recall that John's had information about his father when he was made a Freeman in 1721. If your petition of 1703 Timothy had such information, it would be a clincher. It would also help if we had a date for the marriage of Timothy to this Ann.
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Remember I said that a connection to Debroah Brettargh would have been a major development. The entry we all found for the marriage of Deboarah brettargh to John states that John's surname was Chandler, not Challinor. (Chaleneur). However, Mr Pinkwhistle and the rest of us maybe thought that could easily have been a mistake in translation. Often happens.
However, I've just found an entry that refers to the will of a Deborah Chandler in 1686:
"The will of his widow, Deborah Chandler, was dated and proved in 1686; she desired to be buried in the chancel of Childwall church next to the body of her late husband, James Brettargh. There are mentioned her daughters Hitchmough, Hanna, Phoebe Potter; her grandchildren, Thomas Brettargh, Edward and Phoebe Richardson, and Deborah, wife of Mordecai Cocker of Cockshead."
It would appear that James Brettargh was her first husband and that after his death, Deborah married John Chandler and became Deborah Chandler. You will note that a number of names are mentioned in the will and there is no mention of a Timothy Chandler. I cannot imagine that had he been her son and alive that she would have omitted him from her will. Looks like the kiss of death for Mr Pinkwhistle's proposed tree. Shame!!
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I am not arguing that a John Challinor was born in 1695 to a father called Timothy. The problem is "who were Timothy's parents. There is the Timothy born in 1665 to John Chandler and Debra Brettargh, and there is the Timothy baptised on 6 Dec 1666 in 'Huyton by Roby' to father William Challinor.
Attached is a ref: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J389-LYR
We need to be certain.
The excellent information you provided about Timothy being made a Freeman in 1703 could be the key. I recall that John's had information about his father when he was made a Freeman in 1721. If your petition of 1703 Timothy had such information, it would be a clincher. It would also help if we had a date for the marriage of Timothy to this Ann.
Timothy was not made a freeman by right of being a son or apprentice of a freeman, this was a petition to be made a freeman so it doesn't mention his father or master. It does however state that he was married to a daughter of the late John Wilme
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RE Challinor/ Chalenor etc Family from Glyn Challinor
I have traced my tree from the present day back to Timothy Chalenor, borne 1666, married Anne Wilme 1677-1731 but can get no further. He was one of the Denbighshire Chalenors who seem to go back to Sir Thomas Chalenor 1564-??? wwho married Elizabeth Fleetwood 1568-1643
Mary Matthews 1748-1807 married Charles Chalenor 1745-???, son of Charles Senior 1780-1825 and father of Thomas 1780-1825
Happy to share my tree and to receive information to fill thee gap between 1564 and 1666
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
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Hi All,
My name is Glyn Challinor and I have managed to trace my family tree from today back to Timothy Chaloner born 1666 marroied to Anne Wilme 1677-1731 The name seems to have changed over the years due to the various spellings but my tree currently includes many of the names I read in this forum. I was born in Frodsham, Cheshire and most of my descendants came from around the Chester area. My tree is available on the My Heritage Site and I am happy to share any information I have with any other Challinors from any branch of the family
I am currently stuck on the Challinor tree at Timothy but have traced my Grandmother's line back to 250 AD. If anyone can help me get back past Timothy Chalenor I would be very grateful.
With thanks
Glyn Challinor
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses
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RE Challinor/ Chalenor etc Family from Glyn Challinor
I have traced my tree from the present day back to Timothy Chalenor, borne 1666, married Anne Wilme 1677-1731 but can get no further. He was one of the Denbighshire Chalenors who seem to go back to Sir Thomas Chalenor 1564-??? wwho married Elizabeth Fleetwood 1568-1643
Mary Matthews 1748-1807 married Charles Chalenor 1745-???, son of Charles Senior 1780-1825 and father of Thomas 1780-1825
Happy to share my tree and to receive information to fill thee gap between 1564 and 1666
Hi
I've not seen any indication that Timothy was from Denbighshire or even lived there, The Timothy who married Ann Wilme lived in Chester, his son John later lived in Holt Denbighshire
Linda
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Thanks Linda,
Was Timothy's son John Chaloner born and died and married to Margarett Williams, if so, he is the Holt John Chalenor my ancestor and My Holt information about Timothy was incorrect. If so then do you have any other information about the Timothy who married Anne Wilme?
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I'm hoping Linda25g can help on this one but the question is aimed at all the Chaloner descendants / ancestors who hark back to Thomas Chalenor (b1780 Holt - d1825 Mancott). I think we all agree he married an Ann Thomas, however my question concerns his parents.
Some have Thomas's parents as Thomas (1751 - 1827) with Elizabeth Beech. However, I went with Charles Chalenor & Mary based on the baptism in Holt on 25 Dec 1780 rather than the 1782 baptism.
Does anyone have any conclusive evidence as to which is correct?
thanks Shep.
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Shep
Some of us have Thomas born 1780 married to Anne Thomas born 1776 with Thomas parents as Charles born 1745 and Mary ( born Matthews) 1478 and children Charles, George,William 1, William 2, Thomas and Timothy. This may be another line worth lookin into.
Good Luck
Glyn
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Shep
Some of us have Thomas born 1780 married to Anne Thomas born 1776 with Thomas parents as Charles born 1745 and Mary ( born Matthews) 1478 and children Charles, George,William 1, William 2, Thomas and Timothy. This may be another line worth lookin into.
Good Luck
Glyn
That was the point of my question Glyn. Which route is correct - is it Charles & Mary or Thomas and Elizabeth. What leads some of us one way and others in a different direction?
Do we all agree that Charles and Mary are the more likely route of parentage for Thomas (1751 - 1827)?
Shep.
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Shep,
Until I have evidence to the contrary I will stick with Thomas and Mary but as Holt seems to be involved with a number of the Chaloners, when I get the time I want to try to check the Parish Registers.
Some time ago it was suggested to me that the Challinor name originated in Challons Sur Marne where cloth makers known as Shalooners worked and the Challons Sur Marne Webb Sire does indeed make reference to the Denbigh Challinors.
Glyn
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I'm hoping Linda25g can help on this one but the question is aimed at all the Chaloner descendants / ancestors who hark back to Thomas Chalenor (b1780 Holt - d1825 Mancott). I think we all agree he married an Ann Thomas, however my question concerns his parents.
Some have Thomas's parents as Thomas (1751 - 1827) with Elizabeth Beech. However, I went with Charles Chalenor & Mary based on the baptism in Holt on 25 Dec 1780 rather than the 1782 baptism.
Does anyone have any conclusive evidence as to which is correct?
thanks Shep.
Thomas Chaloner who married Ann Thomas was baptised 23 June 1782 in Isycoed, his parents were Thomas Chaloner (1751 - 1827) his wife was actually an Elizabeth Peck (1753 - 1817)
Thomas Chaloner bap 25 Dec 1780 in Holt was the son of Charles Chaloner and Mary Matthews, he married Elizabeth Hughes in 1806 and then Elizabeth Ellis in 1824, he died 2nd Mar 1853
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Thanks Linda,
Was Timothy's son John Chaloner born and died and married to Margarett Williams, if so, he is the Holt John Chalenor my ancestor and My Holt information about Timothy was incorrect. If so then do you have any other information about the Timothy who married Anne Wilme?
yes Timothy's son was John who married Margaret in Holt. I believe this is the Timothy baptised in Huyton 1666 to William, however I'm still looking for proof.
I have gone further back with Ann Wilme, her grandfather Charles Farrington was buried in Chester Cathedral in 1666 and the brass plaque is still there on the floor of one of the chapels :)
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Linda, are you saying that there are two Thomas Chalenors?
one baptised at Isycoed in June 1782
whose Father was Thomas Chalenor 1751-1827
and Mother was Elizabeth Peck 1753-1817
the other baptised in Holt in December 1780
and later married Elizabeth Hughes in 1806 then Elizabeth Ellis in 1824
whose father was Charles Chalenor and mother Mary Matthews
I have Thomas Chalenor 1780-1825 married to Ann Thomas 1776-????
Son William born Dec 16 1807 at Mancott, baptised Jan 24 1808, married Ann Lewis at Hawarden 26 May 1828
His father was Charles Chalenor 1745-???? married to Mary Matthews 1748-1807 Charles being the Great Grandson of Timothy Chalenr 1666-??? and Ann Wilme 1677-1731
It is a pity we cannot shoe extracts from our trees via this forum which would make comparison much easier
died Gt Boughton 1852
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Although I do not have evidence I tend to think that TIMOTHY CHALLENOR 1667-??? and ANNE WILME 1677-1731 are the parents of JOHN CHALENOR 1695-1766 who married MARGARET WILLIAMS 1695-1742. This would appear to complete the chain from Jacob Chalenor 1586-1631 to a William Chaloner to John Chalenor 1640-1695 and thus to Timothy but again I am short of evidence
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To Izzybella and excookie
I have Charles Challinor married to Mary Matthews whose father was Charles (1718-17590 his father was John 1695-1766) and his father Timothy (1667-???)
Many of my Challinor Ancestors came from the CHester area, including The Lache but no Clifford.
This is a good site but I find it very difficult to keep up with all posts. It is so much easier by direct email where you can attach copies of family trees etc I would like to give folks who I can help my Email adddress but I don't think Roots allow that.
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it is not safe to publically type your email address as this is how spammer pick up on your email, the safe way is by pm.
Images such as family trees can be "attached" to posts by clicking the attach button that appears below the box you type in.
Regards
Sarah
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Thank you Sarah
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Linda, are you saying that there are two Thomas Chalenors?
one baptised at Isycoed in June 1782
whose Father was Thomas Chalenor 1751-1827
and Mother was Elizabeth Peck 1753-1817
the other baptised in Holt in December 1780
and later married Elizabeth Hughes in 1806 then Elizabeth Ellis in 1824
whose father was Charles Chalenor and mother Mary Matthews
I have Thomas Chalenor 1780-1825 married to Ann Thomas 1776-????
Son William born Dec 16 1807 at Mancott, baptised Jan 24 1808, married Ann Lewis at Hawarden 26 May 1828
His father was Charles Chalenor 1745-???? married to Mary Matthews 1748-1807 Charles being the Great Grandson of Timothy Chalenr 1666-??? and Ann Wilme 1677-1731
It is a pity we cannot shoe extracts from our trees via this forum which would make comparison much easier
died Gt Boughton 1852
Sorry to be so long replying to this and hopefully you will see it, the Thomas Chaloner who married Ann Thomas was the son of Thomas Chalenor 1751-1827 and Elizabeth Peck 1753-1817
Thomas son of Charles and Mary married Elizabeth Hughes and then Elizabeth Ellis
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Although I do not have evidence I tend to think that TIMOTHY CHALLENOR 1667-??? and ANNE WILME 1677-1731 are the parents of JOHN CHALENOR 1695-1766 who married MARGARET WILLIAMS 1695-1742. This would appear to complete the chain from Jacob Chalenor 1586-1631 to a William Chaloner to John Chalenor 1640-1695 and thus to Timothy but again I am short of evidence
there is some evidence further up this thread that does point to Timothy and Anne being the parents of John, Anne's will named him as her son.
I'm not sure how that completes a chain from Jacob to Timothy as I have not seen any record of a birth or baptism for our Timothy that I would call definite
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Hi ex cookie. My family line is a little different but I met a distant relative here Brian Challoner and he gave me the marriage of Charles Chaloner b 1745 of Holt. he married Mary Mathews of Farndon Aug 17,1771. They had 5 Children:
Charles b. Feb.4,1772 Holt
George b. Aug.15,1774
William b. Dec.12,1776
Thomas b.Dec.25,1780
All children born in Holt
Mary Mathews died: Feb.8,1807 in holt
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With regard to the correspondence by Linda25g and Dick C about Timothy Chalenor it would appear that Linda is realated to John Chaloner 1695 to 1766 and I am related to John's brother Charles Chaloner born 1701 ( 6th Great Grandfather.)
Dick suggests that John would have been 14 when he married Margaret Williams in 1717 but I think he would have been 22.
Somewhere I saw a reference to Timothy being born in 1666 but I go with the date of 1677 being the same date his wife Anne Wilme was born.
I surmise that Timothy's father was John Chaloner 1640 to 1695 married to Deboragh Brettaugh, John's father being another William Challinor
Do yu guys have any comments on this?
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Remember I said that a connection to Debroah Brettargh would have been a major development. The entry we all found for the marriage of Deboarah brettargh to John states that John's surname was Chandler, not Challinor. (Chaleneur). However, Mr Pinkwhistle and the rest of us maybe thought that could easily have been a mistake in translation. Often happens.
However, I've just found an entry that refers to the will of a Deborah Chandler in 1686:
"The will of his widow, Deborah Chandler, was dated and proved in 1686; she desired to be buried in the chancel of Childwall church next to the body of her late husband, James Brettargh. There are mentioned her daughters Hitchmough, Hanna, Phoebe Potter; her grandchildren, Thomas Brettargh, Edward and Phoebe Richardson, and Deborah, wife of Mordecai Cocker of Cockshead."
It would appear that James Brettargh was her first husband and that after his death, Deborah married John Chandler and became Deborah Chandler. You will note that a number of names are mentioned in the will and there is no mention of a Timothy Chandler. I cannot imagine that had he been her son and alive that she would have omitted him from her will. Looks like the kiss of death for Mr Pinkwhistle's proposed tree. Shame!!