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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Mr. Tibbs on Thursday 27 August 09 10:48 BST (UK)
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I'm absolutely stuck with my Belt and Tench family circa 1700. However I do know the history of Winlaton and that my family worked for this firm both in Winlaton and Swalwell. Does anyone know where I would find any records of employees at that time?
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Hi, I am currently researching the same thing so if I find the answer I will let you know, I am stuck trying to find out exactly where the ironworks were in Winlaton, nobody seems to know. Its incredible that the Winlaton works was once world reknowned but there is so little knowledge about it.
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Great to hear from you. I have had no other replies. I have been researching for three years now and although almost all of my father's family including me were born and bred in Winlaton or Blaydon, I am struggling still with Ambrose Crowley's employees. There is a book called "Men of Iron", which explains the situation of the factory and how it operated in great detail (There's a copy at our Family History Society at Bolbec Hall, Newcastle.) but as you sound pretty immobile, google Winlaton Story and you'll get an interesting summary of it. Ambrose Crowley was a real philanthropist for Winlaton.
Almost all records for the firm seem lost so I am working my way through the archives at Durham Record Office, material dealing with the parish of Winlaton, Blaydon, Whickham and Swalwell (There were three factories altogether: Winlaton, Winlaton Mill and Swalwell.) but I have to wait for opportunities to visit. The original Crowley ironworks was at Bishopwearmouth so Sunderland library may be a possibility and the Crowleys themselves were from Worcestershire. Now that I am writing this, I'm beginning to feel I have made some headway AND I have gained loads of wider knowledge but nothing on my particular ancestors: Anthony BELT was an agent for Ambrose Crowley and my great grandfather times a few was a churchwarden at Ryton, Holy Cross.
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And you too, many thanks for your reply. I was going to mention to you about this book Men of Iron, I have just finished reading that, and was going to let you know that it seems most known employee records were deliberately lost in a fire, in fact the only sources seem to be the law book, and the council instructions, but am sure you know this if you have read the book. It was a very interesting read though, but frustrating as well as I would love to know more but as you know, info is scarce! It strikes me as very sad as you say he was a philanthropist and modern thinker, and shaped the area we live in for generations after he died, and theres not even a plaque in his name! Have read the Winlaton story but still - cant seem to find at all where the old site could be, and I live in Winlaton too! Well, as I am searching I will certainly keep an eye out for Belt and Tench for you, I cant do a lot at the moment but hope to in the not too distant future.
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That's good if you are in Winlaton. The ironworks was all around you: built around four, I think, squares. So, there was Hanover Square for instance, and possibly Commercial Square. If you were standing in the door of the Commercial Hotel looking out, the house to your right on Tyne Street, which used to be Thomas TENCH haulage contractor, in the 1700s, was where the horses belonging to Crowley's ironworks were kept. The land was originally a farm.
Do you collect the series of books entitled "Stories of Old Blaydon". They include a lot of photographs of the area as it was and mention lots of names. Not many for me but there might be more for you. :)
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I forgot to say that there is a Crowley Road in Swalwell and there used to be a Crowley Hotel near the Metro Centre but its name has changed, not quite the same as a plaque though.
Do you know why the records were deliberately burned; I must have missed that.
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Hello all, My SPOOR family were involved in iron works at Winlaton; I suspect they must have had great respect for Ambrose Crowley because they named one of their sons Ambrose and I have never found any earlier Ambroses in my family tree. Pat
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Hello Pat
Thanks for getting in touch. It's great having TWO people to talk to about the elusive Ambrose Crowley ironworks. Being from USA, have you goggled the Winlaton Story and tried other of google's suggestions from the list of websites that they suggest. It will give you quite a flavour of Winlaton and Blaydon until the 1970s, when the centre of Blaydon was almost wiped off the map by the building of a road - would you believe - and many of the old houses in Winlaton were demolished "in the cause of progress".
I would think in the 1700s, all of the Winlaton families would see Ambrose Crowley as some sort of saviour. When he brought his business to Winlaton in 1691, the population was ravaged by yet another plague: life was basic; little employment. He created a whole new way of living for them with not only good wages for them (if they were skilled) but a safe environment, education for their children, structure to their day, and the benefits filtered out to all who lived in the area. It would be interesting to look at the very old parish records for Ryton Holy Cross Church and see how often the name Ambrose signifies.
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Hello Mr. Tibbs, I have a total of eight (8) Ambrose (Harding) Spoors in my family, beginning with a baptism in 1790 in Ryton parish up until 1885 in Newcastle-on-Tyne. Also, I find it interesting that the family even named a daughter in honor of him; I have an Ambrosina Harding Spoor in my family! ;D Indeed, i appears my Spoor family felt a deep debt of gratitude to Mr. Ambrose Crowley. The men began as blacksmiths in Ryton and Winlaton areas and then rode the wave of the British Industrial Revolution by migrating to Newcastle where they became anchor manufacturers, metal cable manufacturers, file makers, nail makers, etc. Thank you for the additional information about Mr. Crowley - it helps me see a bigger picture! Pat
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Hi Pat
That's a huge number of Ambroses within one family although having said that, the tradition was to call the elder sons and daughters after the grandparents. That lasted until the early twentieth century in my family and, particularly the BELT family, and it is very difficult, at times, to work out who is who.
The SPOORS did very well as quite a lot of families did in Ambrose Crowley's time. He asked high standards of his employees and so his workers were in demand. Indeed, the whole area prospered as the works expanded so that other occupations like shopkeepers saw their profit margin rise.
The problems came after well over one hundred years, when the ironworks closed: Winlaton people (and Swalwell and Winlaton Mill) were pretty much dependent on Crowleys for employment, education, medical matters, religious services, pensions ... Crowleys had supplied and paid for, all that they felt was necessary to get the best from their workforce. I can't imagine the workers' confusion as they adjusted to a very different lifestyle.
I
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My Corking's seem to have been anchorsmith's working at Crowley's factory. They were there in Swallwell from c1770-c1830, and then they appear in Bishopwearmouth.
This thread is very interesting, thankyou :)
Matt.
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I have recently been researching my husbands family and his 4x great grandfather John Cowen worked at Crowley Iron Works in Winlaton
I have been advised that John Cowen was in a management position there when the works was closed down and the various departments became the subjects of management buy-outs.
In around 1816 he established a works at Blaydon Burn, in partnership with Anthony Forster, his future son-in-law, to make fire-bricks and gas retorts.
I would also love to know more if anyone finds how we would find any employee records.
Regards
Emma
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Hello Matt
Pleased to hear from you :D My TENCH family had at least one son working at Swalwell in the early 1800s but they seemed to move on too, like your CORKING ancestor. Certainly, one TENCH is in Newcastle upon Tyne by 1816. I wonder if this was the period when the factories were reducing their numbers of employees prior to closing down altogether? Do you know what was at Bishopwearmouth? Ambrose CROWLEY'S original factory was based in Sunderland, in fact, I think it was Bishopwearmouth. I'll have to look it up again.
Pat
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I am thrilled to bits to meet up with another two members with links to the Crowley Ironworks within a day of each other ;D. I had no idea that the COWEN family had any connection with Ambrose CROWLEY. I do remember the brickworks belonging to the COWEN family at Blaydon Staiths (I think): the outlet of Blaydon Burn into the River Tyne. My ancestors used to carry the bricks by cart and later by lorry to various destinations.
One of my teachers at junior school (Miss Hutchinson) used to tell us stories Jane COWEN'S good works: helping the poorer families and entertaining soldiers during WW2.
I am no further forward with information about the employees of Ambrose CROWLEY. It has been suggested to me that all records were destroyed. However, someone else thought it might be worth tracking down the CROWLEY females, who inherited the firm I assume as silent partners (I should know more about this but it is such a long time since I read the book "Men of Iron") on the premise that Ambrose CROWLEY, being a man who looked to the detail, there would be copies. Lastly, I have made no extensive search of the Durham Records Office.
Good to hear from you.
Pat ;)
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Hi Pat,
It is good to make connections sometimes even where there is no blood. This thread is a great example of that. It puts alot of flesh on the bones of our ancestors' daily lives, eh?
I believe my Thomas Corkin/g may have moved to Bishopwearmouth due to his daughter marrying a glass bottle maker who worked in Sunderland. I know shipyards in particular gave Bishopwearmouth most of it's trade (aswell as bottlemaking) so Thomas as an ancorsmith may have gone to work with the ships being built here at this time. He is in Bishopwearmouth in 1841 and stays here until his death in 1852. After this, I find no more smiths in the family. They ALL went into shipbuilding, right up until the 1920's, when my gt grandfather decided to be a footballer :D
Matt.
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Do we know where in Winlaton the works were? Just so I can get a feeling for it. I know where they were in Swalwell given that the chimney still survives in Lidl's carpark and the archaeological excavation that was undertaken there.
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Hi Matt
It would be quite a coincidence if your CORKING family had started working for Ambrose CROWLEY in his first factory in Sunderland (Low Street, I believe) and then returned to the area to go into shipbuilding. Some of my TENCH family moved across there too and into shipbuilding. The lives that they led seem to me to have been very hard and very dangerous. In my husband's Danskin family, one young man became a widower with two young children. The children ended up being brought up by their mother's sister because their father became blind (He was a welder.) and lived the rest of his life, some twenty years in the workhouse.
Pat
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Hello Emma
I went on a historical walk of Winlaton, last year and it appears that when Ambrose CROWLEY came to Winlaton, a small village with few amenities, he carried out extensive building works resulting in four squares, which, I think, were self contained. One was Hanover Square and two others may have been Belt's Square and Commercial Square. Each square may have produced specific ironware, just as each factory at Winlaton, Winlaton Mill and Swalwell did, as the CROWLEY firm expanded.
A really old map of Winlaton (late 1700s-early 1800s) should show the squares. Later maps show just one: Hanover Square. I suspect the squares were self contained deliberately so the Ambrose could exercise a tight hold over his employees through his management.
Pat
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Thanks Pat
I'll see if I can find an old map, this is all fascinating.
I am also wondering now if Anthony Forster who went into business with John Cowen and later John’s son Joseph (Sir) was also an employee of Crowley. Anthony’s son John born in 1823 is showing as being an Iron manufacturer employing 48 men and 12 boys and living at West End house, Low Town End, Winlaton in 1861. He remained in Winlaton in the Iron industry until his death in 1873. I might have to send off his will to see if I can find out any more information.
It’s a shame that there don’t appear to be any employee records it would have been really nice to tie up loose ends.
Regards
emma
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As regards location - there was a place called Cowan's Works just west of Winlaton.
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Thanks jenifer
It's a shame it will only ever be remembered because of the Cowens, but Anthony's descendants know that he was in partenership with John and then Joseph, until Anthony and Joseph had a big dispute over ownership and Anthony left (possibly forced).
Regards
Emma
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Jennifer
How do you do that? It's brilliant: a really clear of a map and colour coded. ;D Would I be able to find a map of Winlaton old enough to show the four squares that Ambrose CROWLEY built for his ironworks and for homes for his employees? ???
Regards Pat
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Would I be able to find a map of Winlaton old enough to show the four squares that Ambrose CROWLEY built
I've been searching for one, but no luck yet :(
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Thank you, Jennifer
I really appreciate the efforts that you are making on my behalf :) Ambrose CROWLEY came to Winlaton in the very late 1600s. The ironworks remained there until the early 1800s.
Pat
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It's surprising they aren't shown on the maps on the Durham GIS site, because according to the 'Winlaton Hoppings' section here http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DUR/Barlow/Part2.html Commercial Square and Hoods Square were stil there well into the 20th century.
The 1894 - 99 map on the Durham site shows a 'Commercial Hotel' with plots neatly laid out around it, so perhaps that was the Commercial Square area?
Here's a photo of Commercial Hotel http://www.isee.gateshead.gov.uk/detail.php?t=objects&type=all&f=&s=commercial&record=0
And three of Crowley's, just in case you haven't seen them http://www.isee.gateshead.gov.uk/info.php?s=crowleys&type=all&t=objects
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Thank you, Jennifer :) I have thoroughly enjoyed reading about Barlow, a village that I know little about and need to explore further because my 3xgreat grandfather was born there, at the Letch. The map was an added bonus, while the genuki website is not one that I have understood properly and will now investigate. I have used isee and knew about Commercial Square but was unsure as to whether it was one of Crowley's squares. Now, I know Hood Square too.
Regards
Pat :)
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If you go to this site:- http://www.swalwelluk.co.uk/index.html and click on 'People' you will find quite a bit of information about Ambrose Crowley and his operations in Swalwell as well as Winlaton.
PatB.
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I am so very grateful for your information, Pat. I didn't know the Swalwell site and found it fascinating (not just Ambrose CROWLEY). I've also made myself familiar with your site, which is a tremendous achievement; I wish I had ancestors that far along the Derwent Valley. Unfortunately, almost all of mine are Blaydon and Winlaton with some in Winlaton Mill and Rowlands Gill.
Thank you so much.
Pat ;D
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I have strong reasons to believe that at least one of my ancestors, Richard Laycock 1781-1826 from Ryton, was working for Ambrose Crowley as a pattenringmaker. He was married in 1805 to Eliz.Chambers at Ryton. His father Joseph Laycock 1752-1786 was from Whickham-Swalwell. Richard and Eliz. moved to Newark Notts. soon after their marriage.
Wonder if anyone has come accross this Laycock family. I would like to know more about them.
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Welcome to Rootschat Dutch 46. Good to hear from you. There certainly were and, I believe, are Laycocks in the area. How far have you researched? H :)ave you looked at the Bishops Transcripts for Durham? :)
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Hi,
Transcriptions in a family bible proved that Richard Laycock and Elizabeth Chambers, who raised a family in Newark were born in the Parish of Gateshead. The information was handed down to Phil Wilson, a descendant.
I have not used the Bishops Transcripts for Durham, (where do I find these?), but Durham Records on line.
Parents for Richard were Joseph Laycock 1752-1786 and Hannah Renwick (She was from Winlaton). Parents of Joseph were Richard Laycock and Eliz. Blacklock, marriage in 1750 at Whickham. I have not been able to find more about them but did find a Brother Joseph Laycock from Winlaton as Prov. Grand Master at the Lodge of Free Masons at Gateshead in 1736. I would like to find out where he fits in. Is he perhaps the father of Richard who married Eliz.Blacklock.
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Hi
The Durham Bishop's transcripts are on the familysearch.org website. When you get to the site click "search records" at the top and then click "record search pilot" on the drop down list. This takes you to a new window with a map of the world and just click on the area of Europe. You should be offered a person search menu, which you need to ignore, and click browse the records at the bottom of the page. This brings up a list of countries and record databases. Scroll down to the United Kingdom list and click on the entry "England Diocese of Durham Bishops' Transcripts" This brings up a page with counties on the left (North Yorkshire to Northumberland), click on the county you want and you will get a list of parishes, click on the parish you want for a list of available records, click on the records you are interested in and browse through about 1000 images looking for your ancestor.
Sounds complicated written down but actually it is quite easy.
All the best
Gobbo
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Many thanks for this useful information Gobo.
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On the family search.org site, you can also click on records as gobbo described, select advanced search, then on the left hand side, select International Genealogical Index (IGI) and type in a name date etc. and usually you will get a selection of people to choose from eg Joseph Laycock was baptised on 16 Aug 1752 at Whickham, click on his name and you can confirm his parents. At the bottom of that page is a batch number-P002081 (for Whickham, St. Mary's), click on the batch number, put Richard Laycock's name in the "father" box and search. Another list of names will appear; these are the names of all of Richard and Elizabeth's children baptised at Whickham beginning with Isabel Laycock bap. 2 May 1756. Couldn't find Richard or Elizabeth's baptisms but this was just an initial search. For Hannah Renwick (Her father is William), there are a huge number of Renwick baptisms so remember to check the parents. The Renwicks are a huge family: my great great grandmother was a Renwick. The family, for the most part lived in Winlaton and at that time were probably all employed by Ambrose Crowley. All church matters took place at Ryton, Holy Cross Church until Winlaton, St' Paul's was built originally as a chapel of ease.
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Forgot to mention that sometimes members put information on this website, which is not necessarily accurate so do check that any information that is relevant to you has been taken from church records and is not member submitted: it will be state on the record in small lettering, where the information comes from. Good luck. If you need more info. just ask.
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Many thanks Mr. Tibbs for this great information again. I didn't know all these different possibilities to search the IGI. It's an eye opener!
And yes, I know the dangers of using the IGI, but it helps to find a copy of the original document and even than if the whole film for a certain parish has not been searched it is possible to follow a wrong lead. That's why I hoped to find the records for the workman of Crowley ironworks. Unfortunately they seem to have been lost. By the way, in Holland where I live, it is almost impossible to search the films of the LDS.
It is good to know the Renwicks were involved with the ironworks as well. I wondered if they would have .
Do we have a family connection with the Renwicks? William Renwick -1727- is the son of James Renwick -1697- and Jane Lambert. He is the son of Thomas Renwick -1660-, and he is the son of John Rennicke.
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You have got a long way back! Yes, it is the same family. My Elizabeth RENWICK goes through father John married to Isabella DIXON; father James 1800 married to Elizabeth DOWNING (2nd marriage); father William 1727 son of James RENNICK! If you are having problems searching-just ask.
Could I ask you how you discovered that your LAYCOCK was a patternringmaker? :)
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Nice to meet you cousin! I suppose you do have the dates for the Renwick's going back to John Rennicke, if not I will let you know what I have. May I ask if you have been able to find more about the Turner family? Hannah Turner married William Renwick in 1749. She was bapt. 17-07- 1726 as the daughter of Samuel Turner and Isabel Philipsen.( Marriage 01-07-1723). I have not been able to find the place of birth for Samuel Turner yet. When the name Turner popped up, for a moment I wondered if we have a famous painter in the family!
When my ancestor Charlotte Laycock was bapt. in 1817 at Newark the profession of father Richard Laycock was given as a patten ringmaker. He was married to Eliz.Chambers, dau of Robert Chambers and Jane Dickinson. I have traced the Chambers going back to Steven Chambers ca. 1611 at Ryton and the Dickinson's to Thomas Dickinson bapt.1590 at Chester le Street. Also the Allison family back to a marriage in 1599 at St.Oswald and the Wanles family back to a marriage in 1614 of Percival Wanles.
I wonder if we have any more connections in the Durham area.
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Hello there
Nice to meet you too, cousin. I do have the RENWICK'S dates but I have not researched the female branches but I am motivated to do that now and have started. May I ask you if I get stuck? You've done amazingly well at tracing the family so far back, especially when you are based in the Netherlands. My family is the TENCH family; we merely arrived in Winlaton in the late 1600s ,from where I have not not discovered-yet. Needless to say, I am unable to help with Samuel TURNER. However, are you aware that Durham Record Office has quite a lot on line? Shame about the William TURNER angle; he did spend a period of time in the northeast.
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Hello again,
Yes, please do ask when you get stuck. I am happy to help if I can. But I must say most of my ancestors from the Gateshead area I found with the aid of Durham Records on line. I like to do research of my pedigree, all my ancestors, both female and male lines. For me that means half English half Dutch as my father was Dutch and my mother English (Perry from London). Also I like to put some flesh on the bones, like the circumstances of life, local history etc. That's why I was very much interested in Ambrose Crowley and his ironworks. Although Ambrose Crowly took good care of his workman I still wonder if they had a very poor life and were living with a family in one room, also I wonder if my ancestors, before 1800, from that area could have been working in the coalmines. Still many questions to answer.
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hello Dutch46 :)
I have been catching up on RENWICKS as quickly as I could so that I can answer constructively when we discuss "connections" and ancestors in common :) I'm back to your earliest mention now but I must say I have had a few problems along the way namely too many Hannah RENWICKS of the same age and quite a few females whose marriages or deaths I can't find :) Hope you're warm and snug in the Netherlands. Lots of snow here. Didn't get to the Newcastle Family History Society this last week as planned.
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Hello Mr.Tibs,
Good to hear from you again and to know you have done some research of the Renwick's. I hope you don't mind that I will write towards the end of the week as I have just packed and tomorrow we re off to England, the Isle of Wight, for a funeral on Tuesday .(friend). We will return home on Wednesday.
Yes we too have had a lot of snow, just hope the weather/roads will be kind to us for the next few days.
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Hello Dutch
Sorry to hear your sad news and hope all went as well as can be expected.
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Hello Mr. Tibbs,
Just wonder if you received my directmail (test) so we can discuss our common ancestors.
Bye
Dutch46
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Hi All,
I have just found a entry note against the burial of an ancestor of mine, George Bennett:
Burials, Gateshead District - Record Number: 344142.2
Location: Whickham
Church: St. Mary
Denomination: Anglican
1 May 1782 George Bennett, of Swalwell (Crowley`s factory)
I have been reading through your posts and looked through the Swalwell website and was encouraged to find information about what their working lives were like. There is also a Cuthbert Bennett who at the burial of a son Leonard Bennett, was noted as being a 'pauper, cooper' - would it have been possible that he was also a Crowley worker at some point with his profession?
Any information on the Bennett's of Whickham, Lanchester, Hexham, Weardale, Tanfield, Durham would be most appreciated. I have as far back as a Cuthbert Bennett born about 1660, father of George, Cuthbert, Mary, Joshua, Dorothy and another George.
Thanks
Marie
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Hello Marie and welcome :)
As you can see the Ambrose CROWLEY factory is partially mystery because the records appear to have been destroyed but we live in hope that more than one copy was made and that someone somewhere holds those. There are BENNETS living in the Blaydon area near Winlaton or at least there were in the 1960s. Your pauper, Cuthbert, who had been a cooper COULD have worked for Crowleys or he could have been self employed and did some work for them. I suspect that he was not an employee as he would have been looked after by Crowley's even if he could nolonger work. On the other hand, maybe he would not live and work by the rules of the factory, which spread into daily life e.g. drank too much, and so was sacked.
Will keep an eye open for BENNETS. Merry Christmas :)
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For anyone who lives nearby, there will be a talk entitled 'Sir Ambrose Crowley and Clockhouse Lane' by Gordon Scorer, at Hexham Local History Society on Tuesday 13th September 2011. Trinity Methodist Church Hall, Beaumont Street, 7.30pm.
Jennifer
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Hello Jennifer :)
Thank you very much for the info. My Family History Journal just goes up to June so I was not aware. I shall certainly be there!! ;D ;D ;D. Could you tell me which "village" Alex Johnson is remembering on 14 April?
Happy New Year :)
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Hi,
My name is Stephen Beech, I live in New York, USA. Charlotte Laycock Gardner was my GG Grandmother. My mother was a Gardner. I would like a connection please to share notes etc.
Thanks
Steve Beech
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Hi Steve,
Nice to hear from you again. I believe we have been in touch in 2009. Do you still have the same email address at verizon.net?
If so I will write to your email address.
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Hi Ambrose,
Yes my email is still the same....I'm just two years older!
Steve Beech
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This is my first time on this site but I have an interest in the Spencer family who worked at Winlaton Mill from around 1700 to 1810 until John Spencer (1785-1867) started his own business first in Newcastle and then at Newburn. I have found 4 generations of Spencer all baptised at Winlaton Mill intermarried with Crook, Cruddas, Wilkinson, Bourn, Gardener, Stapleton, Allporte. I would be interested to know whether anybody knows more about the 17th and 18th Century Spencers and I would be happy to share what I have.
When I was up in the North East recently I was pointed in the direction of the Crowley order book for 1711/12 which is on microfiche in Gateshead Library. It was extremely interesting as the Crowley business seems to have been closely managed by Crowley in London but sadly from my admittedly quick read contained no information about the Spencers.
Has anybody come across a Philip Spencer living in the 19th Century and described as a nail manufacturer of Swalwell? I think he died in the 1860s. Also I am looking for further details John Spencer's daughter Jane born 1822 who married a Spoor?
Look forward to hearing from you.
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Hello and a warm welcome to Rootschat! ;D A look at the freeBMD site reveals that a Jane Spencer married an Edward Spoor in 1869 in Newcastle on Tyne, Is this the couple you are seeking? Pat
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Many thanks for reply. The names certainly fit. Jane Spencer would have been 47 in 1869-quite old for a wedding. Annoyingly I cant find either her or her father in the 1861 census which would have been some sort of a check. On the other hand I think I found them both in the 1871 census which gives her age as 48 and her husband as 50 and described as retired surveyor. It looks as though he may have been a widower. Jane gives her place of birth as Newcastle but my Jane was Newburn. On balance I think the connection is quite likely.
Thanks for your help
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A marriage recorded in the Newcastle Courant, Fri 20th Aug 1869 :
"At Newcastle, at St. Johns Church, on the 12th inst., Mr. Edward Spoor of Rye Hill, to Jane, daughter of the late John Spencer Esq. of Lemington Hall".
From earlier articles, the Spencers appear to be living at Lemington Hall in 1861. Parts of Newburn are missing from the 1861 census, so it looks like Lemington Hall may be among the missing pages.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/help-and-advice/knowledge-base/census/known-issues#3
Alan.
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Hello again! Edward Spoor was a widower when he married Jane Spencer. His first wife, Isabella Rochester, had died after they had, I think, 4 children, 3 of whom died at a young age. I have many details on Edward Spoor and his parents as he is my first cousin 4 x removed. If you make another posting we will be able to exhange PM (personal messages) if you are interested. ;D patrexjax
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thank you very much indeed for both your replies which are extremely helpful. Jane Spencer is my 2nd great grand aunt, her father being my 3rd great grandfather. I would like to know where Jane and her brothers received their education. Is there any resource covering Northumberland which enables me to find out?
I am also interested in the Spoor family. do you know the names, dates of birth and death of her parents and their occupations.
As I previously explained I am new to this site but will now explore the pm system.
Best wishes
Yrs
Christopher
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Has anybody come across a Philip Spencer living in the 19th Century and described as a nail manufacturer of Swalwell? I think he died in the 1860s. Also I am looking for further details John Spencer's daughter Jane born 1822 who married a Spoor?
The 1835 Parochial Survey of Whickham covers parts of Swalwell. There is an entry for a Philip Spencer, who may be yours :
Page 43
Abode Swalwell, Pringle Yard
Name Philip
Surname SPENCER
Others & Wife
Sons 1
Drs 1
Lod 1
Serv 1
Tot 6
Occupation Blacksmith
Denomination Churchman
Means of Religs Regular Attendance at Church
Instruction Sacrament of the Lords Supper
Reads or is able to read
Prayer Book
Bible
Family Prayers
School blank
Married N'Castle
Remarks blank
The original document is held at Durham Records Office.
Ref: EP/Whm 29
Description: Parochial survey giving names of parishioners, their occupations, denominations, education, place of marriage, size of family, etc. prepared by W. Gould, curate, 1835
Boo
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Many thanks. This is very helpful. I am pretty sure this is the right Philip Spencer. I now need to find how he is related to John Spencer of Newburn (1785-1867). Philip was the guarantor of various leases of John Spencer's.
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Christopher,
Philip Spencer is on census 1841-1861 in Swalwell / Whickham, a Blacksmith, employing 25 men in 1851 so very successful. I assume you have these. He is down as born Swalwell / Whickham around 1800, so this will probably be his baptism at Whickham St. Mary:
22 Sep 1799. Phillip Spencer. Born 30th Jun 1799. 6th son of Michael Spencer of Swalwell (Smith, native of Ryton) by his wife Elizabeth (native of Ponteland, daughter of Philip Oxley).
Not sure how this ties in with what you know of John Spencer.
Alan.
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Alan
Thanks very much. My John Spencer (1785-1867) was the son of William Spencer (1761-1790), the grandson of Thomas Spencer (1732-1790) and the great grandson of William Spencer (b. abt. 1701-aft1752). All these Spencers were born in Winlaton Mill and worked for Crowleys as file smiths.
It is possible that Philip Spencer's father was Michael Spencer (1757-1836), and that his father was William Spencer died Winlaton 1784 or William Spencer died WI Mill (??? is WI Mill the same as Winlaton Mill) 1764. I know that John Spencer's great grandfather William had a son called William so if Philip's grandfather was the same William, then that would make John and Philip second cousins. What do you think?
Yrs
Christopher
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Christopher,
Yes that seems very likely and yes Wl Mill on the Ryton Parish registers is Winlaton Mill.
I've just read some of your detailed history of the Spencer Family essay on your Family Tree on Ancestry (found when searching for Philip Spencer), really fascinating. My wifes GGGGGF and his three of his sons, including her GGGGF all lived in Newburn in the 1840's and 50's and worked as Spring Makers, File Makers and File Hardeners so presumably worked in the Spencer Factory. All came from Yorkshire, how they ended up in Newburn is a mystery.
A few snippets that aren't on your essay that may be of interest, from things I noted when looking for a connection between John and Philip :
Regarding Johns oldest son William :
Burial at Newburn. 29 April 1839. William Spencer, age 25, File Maker.
Newcastle Courant. Fri 3 May 1839.
Died. The 28th ult. at Newburn, age 25, much respected, William, eldest son of Mr. John Spencer of the firm of Messrs J. and W. Spencer, Steel File and Spring Manufacturers. Mr. S. arrived from off a journey only on the previous Friday, was attacked with an inflammation the same evening and died on the Sunday morning.
Regarding Johns brother William, I was hoping to find a connection to Philip from him :
Baptism at Newburn. 22 Feb 1824. Jane, daughter of William and Bridget Spencer of Newburn. File Manufacturer.
Burial at Newcastle St. Nicholas. 20 Feb 1829. Bridget Spencer, age 47, of Scotch Wood.
Newcastle Courant. Sat 28 Feb 1829.
On Monday last at Scotch Wood, Mrs Spencer, wife of Mr. William Spencer, and daughter of the late Mr. Joseph Marshall of this town.
Marriage at Newcastle St. John. 2 Feb 1834, William Spencer of Newburn, and Esther Gardiner of this Parish. By License. Groom a Widower, Bride a Spinster.
Newcastle Courant Fri 25 Oct 1839,
The 26th inst, in Blenheim St. in this town, aged 56, Mr William Spencer, much respected, of the firm of John and William Spencer, manufacturers.
1841 census. Blenheim St., Newcastle,
Esther Spencer, 45, Ind., N,
William Spencer, 15, App. Patent Axle Maker, N,
HO107/824/14/3.
Johns wife Barbara burial :
Newcastle Courant. Fri Feb 8th 1861.
At Lemington Hall on the 5th inst., aged 78, much respected and deeply regretted, Barbara, wife of John Spencer Esq.
Hope this is useful,
Alan.
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Hello Mr. Tibbs,
My name is Michael Tench and I am trying to tie the branches of the Tench family in the North East with my branches in Shropshire, Worcestershire and Cheshire. They may have travelled with the Crowley family from this area to the North East.
I wonder if you could give your earliest Tench ancestor names and dates to see if I could tie them in to the overall Tench family
Thanks
Michael Tench
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Has anybody come across a Philip Spencer living in the 19th Century and described as a nail manufacturer of Swalwell? I think he died in the 1860s. Also I am looking for further details John Spencer's daughter Jane born 1822 who married a Spoor?
The 1835 Parochial Survey of Whickham covers parts of Swalwell. There is an entry for a Philip Spencer, who may be yours :
Page 43
Abode Swalwell, Pringle Yard
Name Philip
Surname SPENCER
Others & Wife
Sons 1
Drs 1
Lod 1
Serv 1
Tot 6
Occupation Blacksmith
Denomination Churchman
Means of Religs Regular Attendance at Church
Instruction Sacrament of the Lords Supper
Reads or is able to read
Prayer Book
Bible
Family Prayers
School blank
Married N'Castle
Remarks blank
The original document is held at Durham Records Office.
Ref: EP/Whm 29
Description: Parochial survey giving names of parishioners, their occupations, denominations, education, place of marriage, size of family, etc. prepared by W. Gould, curate, 1835
Boo
Hello Boo
Were there any other Parochial Surveys of Whickham?
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Hello Boo
Were there any other Parochial Surveys of Whickham?
Hi, not that I am aware of, though I only got to know about this one by accident :-)
The Durham Records Office reference for this one is EP/Whm 29. If you stick EP/Whm into their catalogue search you will be able to see what else they have. I can't immediately see anything else like this for Whickham, apart from a 'note of population' in 1831 which seems to consist of one page so I doubt if it would be in this sort of detail.
There are 4 other SPENCER entries in the 1835 survey if you are interested. I opened a thread in the Lookup Requests board in case anyone wants details (so I don't lose track of what I have done). If you would like the others, post in that thread and I will reply with the details.
Boo
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Thanks, Boo. I'll look that up. It's not the Spencer family that I'm looking for but the TENCH family. By 1835, I think they had left Swalwell/Whickham for Newcastle, which is why I was interested to know if there were more surveys.
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My SIDDOWAY ancestors moved north from Rowley Regis to Sunderland and then Winlaton to work as nailors for Crowley Iron Works. There are two references in secondary sources to Siddoways - one for the funeral expenses for William Siddoway, and another for a shop application from Robert Siddoway. I would love to find the original records to see if there is more context. Does anyone know where the records are located that formed the basis for the Men of Iron and The Law Book of the Crowley Iron Works?
On a recent visit to the area, the librarians at The Story in Durham helped me find the farm my ancestors operated as well as a home built in the mid-1700s. One farm on the north-west side of Barlow Lane was operated with the NIXONS (one of my male ancestors married a Nixon), and a farm on the south-east side of Barlow Lane was operated by the RICHARDSONS (another marriage relationship) and had a sign identifying it as Normans Riding Farm. The Siddoways lived in a home on North Street. It was left to Richard Siddoway Bagnall in the early eighteenth century. It appears to be currently occupied as a duplex.
I was only in the area for a few days, but I highly recommend The Story in Durham. The research librarians and archivists were fantastic.