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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset Lookup Requests => Somerset => England => Somerset Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Philcandy on Tuesday 25 August 09 12:42 BST (UK)
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Fellow listers
My search has taken me to an unfamiliar branch of the HARDING family from Milton Clevedon Somerset and also Stinsford Dorset, and I would appreciate some help.
Another researcher has recently unearthed a copy of the will of James HARDING from Milton Clevedon dated 1816. Based on our reading of the will, James and his wife Elizabeth (probably Elizabeth WELCH, who married on 24 Apr 1763) had five daughters. Given their appearance in the will, probably in the following birth order:
Mary
Ann
Elizabeth
Sarah Does she appear in Lamyatt in the 1851 Census? Where was she in 1841?
Jane
Of these, by 1816 only two were married: Ann was the wife of Benjamin HODDINOTT (I think she was born around 1775, and was still alive in the parish of Bruton at the time of the 1841 Census), and Elizabeth was the wife of Joseph HIGHETT; she was born about 1778 and was still alive in Lamyatt, Somerset as late as 1851. It looks as if Ann married Benjamin HODDINOTT in 1787, and Elizabeth married Joseph HIGHETT in 1805.
Since posting this request, I have obtained the 1834 will of William HARDING mentioned below. In it, he mentions his sister Jane as being called Jane GREEN, and there is a marriage on 29 APR 1817 at Milton Clevedon Somerset between Jane HARDING and William GREEN. However she seems to have died between 17th August 1833 and a codicil to the will dated 22 November 1834.
From James HARDING's 1816 will, it also looks as if there were six sons (who reached adulthood), probably born in this order:
James
William
John
Robert
Thomas
Charles.
Of these, I think I have found the marriage of William in 1802 to Hannah HIGHETT (Joseph's sister) and also Robert to Mary PHILLIPS in Mere Wiltshire on 4 May 1811. I haven't managed to find out what became of any of the others so far.
I know it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially since HARDING is such a relatively common surname, but if anyone can find especially the six sons in, say, the 1841 or 1851 Census it may give me somewhere to look for extra family links. I think that Robert HARDING could be in or near Chinnock in 1841. I suspect that the place of birth would be Milton Clevedon or maybe just 'Milton.'
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Kind regards
Phil Candy
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Hello Phil,
Not an easy task as you say.
Would you be able to hazard a guess as to their dates of birth?
The 1841 does not show place of birth, it will only indicate whether born in the same county as the one they were living in when the census was taken.
Jo
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Hello Phil,
The only Harding born Milton Clevedon I can find in the 1851 census, is Mary HARDING born c1775 in Milton Clevedon. She is in Stourton, Wilts. Shows her as unmarried, aged 76 an annuitant. She is with Jane GUPPY, a servant.
There is a James HARDING, in Bruton in the 1841. He is aged 70 and shown as "ind", born in county. The household also has Susanna, aged 70, born in county and Susanna, aged 35, born in county.
Sarah HARDING born c1780 Milton Clevedon, is in Lamyatt in the 1861 but you seem to have found her before.
The problem is that the Harding family tended to use the same christian names all the way through. It makes it diificult to identify them.
Jo
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Hi Jo
You are of course right about the dates of birth.
When I first started, I didn't have a clue, but I have now found a few marriages and some deaths, and, linked with the order in which the names appears in the will, I would guess the birth dates as follows:
Mary HARDING born ca 1774; died in 1859 [found in Stourton Wilts in 1841 and 1851]
Ann HODDINOTT (nee HARDING) born ca 1775; died in 1843 [found in Bruton Somerset in 1841]
Elizabeth HIGHETT (nee HARDING) born ca 1778; died ca 1864 [found in Lamyatt in 1851 and in Winterbourne Down, Gloucester in 1861; no sign of her in 1841]
Sarah HARDING born ca 1780; died after 1851 [found in Lamyatt in 1851; no sign of her in other years]
Jane GREEN (nee HARDING) born ca 1789; died in 1833 [died too early for censuses]
James HARDING born ca 1764 [nothing known at all]
William HARDING born ca 1766; died 1834 [died too early for censuses]
John HARDING born ca 1773 [nothing known at all]
Robert HARDING born ca 1785; died 1865 [found in London in 1851 and in Stourton, Wilts in 1861; no sign of him in 1841]
Thomas HARDING born ca 1787 [nothing known at all]
Charles HARDING born ca 1790 [nothing known at all]
In relation to the four men for whom I don't yet a death date, all I can say is that they were mentioned in the Will of their father in 1816, and both John and Thomas were also mentioned by name in the 1834 Will of their brother William. This may imply that Charles had died between 1816 and 1834.
I hope this gives you something to go on; it would be great to track down the various members of this scattered family.
Kind regards and thanks
Phil
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Hello Phil,
<snip>
There is a James HARDING, in Bruton in the 1841. He is aged 70 and shown as "ind", born in county. The household also has Susanna, aged 70, born in county and Susanna, aged 35, born in county.
Sarah HARDING born c1780 Milton Clevedon, is in Lamyatt in the 1861 but you seem to have found her before.
The problem is that the Harding family tended to use the same Christian names all the way through. It makes it difficult to identify them.
Jo
Hi Jo
I really like the James/Susannah HARDING possibility in Bruton. It gives something to follow up; I wonder if the daughter was still around in 1851, as that would give her place of birth.
I would appreciate the 1861 entry for Sarah HARDING in Lamyatt; so far I only have her in 1851.
Thanks as ever for your help with this tricky inquiry.
Kind regards
Phil
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1841 HO107/963/7 Folio 4 Page 2
Lamyatt, Somerset
Sarah Harding 57 Independent Y
Elizabeth Cary 20 Servant Y
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Robert Harding 55 Independent Y
Eliza Harding 19 Independent Y
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As Jo is offline, heres the 1861 as well -
RG9/1659 Folio 84 Page 3
Parish Road, Lamyatt, Somerset
Sarah Harding 81 unm Retired Milton Clevedon
Elizabeth Oram 50 unm House Serv Frome
Regards
Cat
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1841 HO107/963/7 Folio 4 Page 2
Lamyatt, Somerset
Sarah Harding 57 Independent Y
Elizabeth Cary 20 Servant Y
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Robert Harding 55 Independent Y
Eliza Harding 19 Independent Y
Thanks CatOne
These are really helpful and pretty conclusive in establishing the link between Mary and her brother Robert. The Eliza with Robert, aged 19, was almost certainly Robert's youngest daughter Elizabeth born in 1821, who later that same year (1841) migrated to Australia with her brother. She eventually became extremely wealthy and prominent and established one of Australia's leading private hospitals, the AUSTIN Hospital, named in honour of her husband.
Thanks a lot for this very useful lookup
Phil
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As Jo is offline, heres the 1861 as well -
RG9/1659 Folio 84 Page 3
Parish Road, Lamyatt, Somerset
Sarah Harding 81 unm Retired Milton Clevedon
Elizabeth Oram 50 unm House Serv Frome
Regards
Cat
Hello again Cat
This pushes the research along another ten years. In fact, I note that a Sarah HARDING (aged 92) died in 1872 in Shepton Mallet RD (which includes Lamyatt). Could I impose on you to see if there is any sign of Sarah still in Lamyatt in the 1871 census?
Kind regards and thanks again.
Phil
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1871
RG10/2440 Folio 81 Page 3
Montgomery House, Lamyat, Somerset
Sarah Harding 91 Annuitant Landowner Somerset Milton Blind
Laurence G nephew 61 Income derivable from interest of money .... Somerset Bruton
Elizabeth Ann Oram 64 General Servant Domestic Frome
Elizabeth Plowman 39 Cook and Domestic Somerset Cole
An interesting census entry, gives you another relative anyway :)
Regards
Cat
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In 1851, Laurence is at Northampton Place, Islington, Middlesex, hes a Schoolmaster, living with a housekeeper, 2 servants and 5 schoolboys. Two of the schoolboys, Henry Harding 15 and Thos Alexander 11 are listed as cousins
HO107/1502 Folio 524 Page 29
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This really is a surprise packet. I wonder if Lawrence George HARDING could have been a son of James HARDING from Bruton who, I suspect, is yet another brother of Sarah.
I don't think the Bruton records have been transcribed yet, but I wonder if he was living with any other relatives in 1841? In 1881, he is on his own with just a couple of servants, obviously quite comfortably off.
Kind regards
Phil
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I checked 1841 to see if I could find him with any family but unfortunately hes in Brightelmstone, St Peter, Sussex, a tutor, age 30, N, in a school at Gloucester Place, with about 20 children and quite a few tutors and servants
HO107/1121/10 Folio 50 Page 34
Regards
Cat
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Do you know who his cousins are from 1851 census - Henry Harding and Thos Alexander?
Thomas seems to be the son of a John (40) and Elizabeth Alexander (32) in 1841 census. In 1851 John is a widower, Druggist and Grocer in Glastonbury, but I notice he has an assistant Robert? Welch age 30. Don't know where these fit in though :-\
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Thanks anyway Cat. This has given me a new lease of life on this particular line, and a strong lead about a connection in Bruton to follow up.
Kind regards and thanks
Phil
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Do you know who his cousins are from 1851 census - Henry Harding and Thos Alexander?
Thomas seems to be the son of a John (40) and Elizabeth Alexander (32) in 1841 census. In 1851 John is a widower, Druggist and Grocer in Glastonbury, but I notice he has an assistant Robert? Welch age 30. Don't know where these fit in though :-\
The WELCHes could really give you a headache.
James HARDING (ca 1740-1816) married Elizabeth WELCH in 1763, and had eleven children. His sister Mary married William WELCH in 1763, but I haven't been able to trace their children.
In addition, an Ann WELCH, born about 1781, married George HARDING who was a nephew of James. It is quite likely, I would think, that Ann WELCH was his cousin.
So all in all, the link with the ALEXANDER and WELCH families is likely to be quite strong, but I don't know how to go about proving the relationship ;)
Phil
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Sorry to butt in on your research but I am interested in any George Harding's born Somerset around
1770/80. Have you any info on the George Harding married to Ann Welch please? Although I know the George Harding my 3 Grt. Grandfather marr. Joan Holly 1803 at Moorlinch. I am unable to find birthplace of George owing to being only on 1841 Census. Birthplace Somerset.George died 1845. Any info. to make breakthrough would be fantastic as this line has ended without birthplace. I have had a questionable entry of "status" on Marr.Cert. so follow up any mention of George Harding of Somerset. I also have a Harding connection to Welch family but that is later 1907 - Wilts.
Regards, Syljun
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Sorry, Have checked my research and found that your George Harding married Ann Welch 13th Feb.1809 at Kelston so have already checked out this George. Brick wall still stands. Regards Syljun
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Hello Sylvia
I'm sorry that my research didn't help you, but yours has at least helped me! I didn't previously have George's marriage date to Ann WELCH, so that has bee a big bonus.
However i have somewhat garbled record that George married twice - the second time (or maybe it was the first time!) to Eleanor Unknown.
Can you tell me any thing more about 'my' George? For instance have you found the baptisms of any of his children - Mary Ann (1816), William (1817) or Susannah (1821)?
Any help you can provide from your records would, of course, be most welcome.
Kind regards
Philip
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Hello Phil,
I have been digging around to see what I can come up with. Not much I am afraid, there are definitely connections with this Harding line and Mere and Stourton, Wiltshire. I think the Harding family in Somerset originate from Wiltshire. I know my line go back to Pewsey, Wiltshire.
I did find the children of Robert HARDING and Mary PHILLIPS. That Robert is shown as born Chinnock, Somerset, c1784. Children shown as William HARDING, born c1814, Chinnock and Elizabeth Phillips HARDING ,born c14/08/1821 Chinnock.
Robert is shown as a Yeoman Farmer.
There is a possible for him in the 1841 in Lamyatt, details given previously by Cat. I note that on the same page, there is a family of George WELCH, Yeoman and children also George, Mary Ann, etc. I can get the full details if you do not have them.
There is a Thomas HARDING in Brinkworth, Wilts on the 1841. He is a farmer and aged 52, born Wilts. Family is Grace HARDING, aged 42, Sarah, aged 20, Jane aged 17 and Ann aged 16. All born in county. Ref. HO107/1181/4. Page 1.
Jo
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Hi Phil, Rechecking info. of marriage of George and Ann I found from I.G.I. that it has 1800 for marriage so it would be better for you to check it. My date of 13/2/1809 was hand written so cannot confirm where I obtained info.
I.G.I. has Film No. 184797. Regards, Syljun
Connection of my Harding marrying into Welch family is Mere, Wilts.
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Hello Phil,
The Bruton PRs have a couple of entries which may be of interest to you. These are as follows;
Marriage between James HARDING of Wincanton and Elizabeth MUDGE 13/01/1794.
Baptism, 01/10/1794 Mary Mudge daughter of James and Elizabeth HARDING.
Baptism, 16/02/1807, Charles James, son of Charles and Margaret HARDING.
Jo
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Hello Phil,
There are some documents in the Somerset RO which give a hint of the Harding family living in these areas.
Lamyatt Deeds ref. D/DC/s.som/38/3 1746-1785.
1000 year lease and assigment of an unspecified plot assigned to Thos Baker, linen weaver of Lamyatt in 1746 and to James Harding of Greencombe, Milton Cleevedon in 1785.
West Quantoxhead Ref, DD/BR/ho/53 1765.
Contents- mortgage for £14,000 for the Manor of St Audries and West Quantoxhead, St Audries Farm and right of presentation to West Quantoxhead Church, the lower House and named lands by Richard Codrington of Bridgewater and Robert Balch of St Audries to James Harding of Mere, Wilts.
Now we need a volunteer to go and look at these in Taunton!
Jo.
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Thanks Jo
I'll have to mull over all this new information and see if anything presents itself as a possible solution.
Kind regards and thanks for all your help.
Phil
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Hello Phil,
I found another link to Mere and Bruton Harding families in the marriages in Bruton.
A marriage on 22/02/1731, Bruton, James HARDIN of Meere and Mary HIGGINS of Bruton.
Also, 02/09/1759. Joseph HARDING to Joan DODIMEAD.
There are some earlier ones if you want them.
Jo
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Hello Phil,
I too have reached a Henry Harding (Hearding) brickwall. Hope you don't mind if I try to explain??
Fenetta Hearding b. 1830 South Molton (ggggrandmother) married Richard Mardles in Exeter in 1851.
Her father is listed on marraige cert as Henry Hearding, cordwainer. I cannot find him or Fenetta's mother or siblings if any ::) There is a Henry Hearding b. 1834 South Molton, shoemaker in Wales Census in 1891.
Maybe he is Fenetta's brother?
Fenetta is the name that runs through the generations, many female decendants were given that name.
But here are some of the possible spellings, Finetta Harding buried 1706 Wiltshire
Frances Finetta Harding buried 1743 Wiltshire
I don't know if those Finettas are related to MY Fenetta but it seems possible
Many spellings of Harding also, Hearding, Hardin....
Look at these interesting men found in the 1841 Census living in Cadbury, Devon:
8) John Herding b. Devon 1826
Thomas Herrding b. 1827
Yes thats the way the names are spelt on the Census ???
Maybe you might come across my Henry in your search. I will keep your Hardings in mind as I search also.
One thing for sure, they are not very easily found :(
Maybe they are connected???
Where is Somerset in relation to Devon?
Kind Regards
Fenetta
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I think this may be your Henry in 1861?
Henry Harding 37 Cordwainer South Molton South Devon
Mira 42 Dressmaker Blakeney Gloucestershire
Emma 14 Scholar Myrther South Wales
Fanette 7 Swansea South Wales
Elizabeth 5 Coleford, Gloucestershire
Mariah Helen 3 Coleford Gloucestershire
Newland Whitecliff, Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire
RG9/3980 Folio 21 Page 36
I also saw him in Charles, Devon, in the 1841 census, a servant in the household of a farmer
Regards
Cat :)
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In 1851, he, wife Maria, Emma + visitor Joseph Davis 22 Shoemaker Pembroke Dock are in Back Street, Swansea HO107/2466 Folio 351 Page 17 (transcribed "Harich")
In 1871 the family are at RG10/5331 Folio 56 Page 62 (Fenetta is transcribed as Jeanette) and there is a 6yr old nephew Alfred Roberts (born Trevethin, Monmouthshire), might help if hes from Henry's side not his wifes)
Regards
Cat :)
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Hi Cat One,
Thanks for your interesting reply. Rootschatters really are the greatest. The g.....grandfather Henry that I am not finding is the one who had to be born before 1818-1820 (I think) because his daughter Fenetta is listed in several places as being born in 1830.
The Henry you have found in Wales was born approx 1924?
I think this may be your Henry in 1861?
Henry Harding 37 Cordwainer South Molton South Devon
Mira 42 Dressmaker Blakeney Gloucestershire
Emma 14 Scholar Myrther South Wales
Fanette 7 Swansea South Wales
Elizabeth 5 Coleford, Gloucestershire
Mariah Helen 3 Coleford Gloucestershire
Newland Whitecliff, Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire
RG9/3980 Folio 21 Page 36
I also saw him in Charles, Devon, in the 1841 census, a servant in the household of a farmer
Regards
Cat :)
Would it be possible that the above Henry is the son of the first Henry and therefore a brother of the first
Fenetta.
Finetta Hardin was an 11yr old servant in South Molton in the 1841 Census. So no parents found in 1841
Is there an age for Henry in Charles, Devon in the 1841 census? Maybe they were very poor or orphans?
There seems to be a definite link between the families, due to similar names etc.
I have an index for Fennetta Ann Hearding, b. Dec 1853, Swansea Vol 11A Pg. 388. Shes the girl above that you found.
I kept that finding because she is surely connected to my g.....gran Fenetta.
They moved around a bit!!!!
Where did they end up??
In your second reply you mention In 1871 family at RG10/5531 etc... Where do I access that??
In 1891 Pontypool, WALES Census Henry Hearding age 67 ,born S. Molton, Widow, shoemaker.
Thanks a million for all your work, its given me hope of finding HENRY ::)
Fenetta :)
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Fenetta
Now you've got me looking for the wrong Henry!!
I would say it's odd-on that this Henry is a brother of your Fanetta, which means that since he was born in 1824, and was probably the eldest son, his father would have been born about 1800 or maybe earlier. This at least pushes back your search by a few years.
It also looks as if Henry HARDING (indexed as HEARDING) married Myra PHILLIPS on 10 MAY 1846 at Ganarew, Hereford (IGI). The marriage was recorded in the Monmouth Registration District in the June Quarter of 1846 (Vol 26, page 113). It probably wouldn't add much to get his marriage certificate although it should confirm that his father - like Fenetta's - was also Henry.
It's interesting that their first child was named Emma; you may find that this, or one of the other names in that family, provides a link back to earlier generations.
In case it's helpful, Henry (junior) and Myra were living in High Street, Trevethin Monmouthshire at the time of the 1881 census.
Finally, there is someone descended from Fenetta, the daughter of this family born in 1853. You might like to get in touch and compare notes: http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/DEVON/2001-05/0990376215
Kind regards
Phil
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The Henry in Charles in 1841 was aged 15.
This would appear to be his wife's death registration in 1889 -
Myra Harding age 71 Sept 1889 Pontypool Vol 11a Page 69
I use ancestry.co.uk to access the censuses although some people prefer others, but I got this years sub at half price, just over £40 which I think is good for a year, don't know if they've still got the offer on though....
The Henry you have in 1891 is age 67? so born c1824, not 1834? :-\ I agree with Phil and think that this Henry is likely to be your Fenetta's brother.
In 1841 and 1851 there is another Henry Harding in the "hundred" of South Molton -
1841 - Henry Harding 45 Ag Lab Y (in Knowstone, Devon)
1851 - Henry Hardin 50 Farm Labourer Devon Parra......? (in Molland, Devon) (however hes down as unmarried, I wonder if he could be widowed though and that is why the children are not with parents in 1841 but out working instead) :-\
Regards
Cat
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Hi Phil
Thanks so much for your reply. I feel like an intruder onto your search for Henry!!!! :-[
I never meant that to happen.
However, I am grateful because I have made a hole into my Henrys rather strong brickwall.
I haven't been able to go back with any degree of certainty prior to 1830.
However I don't have any site subscriptions and don't live in the UK so I am relying on Rootschatters, and FreeBMD etc..
Rootschatters have helped more than any other search I could do. THANKS :)
Thanks for your help again. P.S. I hope your search continues with good results.
Regards
Fenetta
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Hello Fenetta
I posted a query on the Devon Board regarding the Henry HARDING in South Molton. The reply is available here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=403658.msg2724741#msg2724741
As Cat says, it looks as if this Henry was either unmarried or (more likely) widowed by 1841, so unfortunately it doesn't take your search back any further.
From the looks of freereg, no-one has been assigned to transcribe the registers of South Molton, but there does seem to be a local library and museum which could be worth contacting. Have a look at: http://www.northdevonlink.co.uk/south-molton.htm
Finally, the Henry HARDIN that Cat has identified in 1851 probably came from Parracombe. I note from IGI that a Henry HARDING was baptised at Parracombe on 03 JAN 1796 to John HARDING and his wife Mary Toms Harding. Again from IGI it looks like they married in Parracombe on 28 SEP 1793.
I hope something here is helpful to you.
Kind regards
Phil Candy
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To everyone who has contributed to this thread, many thanks. There is a treasure trove of ideas and links here, which will take me a while to digest. I have a feeling that the links between Bruton and Mere will prove to be vital in carrying this research back to earlier generations.
I now have a couple of new directions to follow, and I will probably post separate requests to keep the stands of this inquiry clear.
Thanks to everyone for your unselfish contributions.
Kind regards
Phil
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Hello Cat an Phil,
Thanks for your latest information. I will have a look at the threads you have posted. I'm sure to find more pieces of the puzzle.
Happy searching,
Fenetta,
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Hi Phil and Cat. I have only just joined this web site so am not sure how to send a private e-mail. I am tracing the same family. Fannette Harding born in Swansea is my Great Great Grandmother. She married twice. Firstly Charles Hall then Francis Fish. I have a lot of information re her descendants which I can share.
I have her parents as Henry Harding and Myra Phillips and her grandparents as Henry Harding and Elizabeth Callacott.
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I can put some light on Robert Harding.
Robert married Mary Phillips in 1811. They had 6 children.
Robert was declared bunkrupt in 1831 and the marriage fell apart.
Robert and his youngest daughter Eliza (later known as ELizabeth) went to live with his sister Sarah in Lamyatt, Somerset. Mary and the other children went back to her home town of Mere, Wilts.
Eliza and her eldest brother William immigrated to Australia in 1841 on the Ward Chipman (a whole other story).
They settled in Western Victoria and began a sheep run called Mt Hesse.
In 1845 Eliza, now known as Elizabeth, married Thomas Austin.
Thomas & Elizabeth owned Barwon Park. They had 11 children. Built Barwon Park Mansion in 1871 and Thomas died later that same year. Elizabeth died in 1910. Elizabeth spent her widowhood doing many philanthropic works. Many of her achievements are well known today, including the Austin Hospital which she financed in 1882 and Austin Cottages in Geelong.