RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: JACKEROO on Tuesday 25 August 09 09:14 BST (UK)
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while looking for margaret lucy cook married ernest albert henderson, also found margaret must have married a fellow called roles.
the only one i could find was ernest sydney roles(dick), who is he and did he marry margaret lucy, his date of death or year is 1966, no cemetery listing,
margarets is 1989
appreciate any help
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Diedre I am quoting from information I gave you on a previous thread :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,399404.0.html
Here is the marriage and no births are available in South Australia post 1928.
HENDERSON Ernest Albert 23 years Status single Father Arthur HENDERSON
COOK Margaret Lucy 18 years Status Single Father Frederick William COOK
9 May 1931
At St Laurences Priory North Adelaide Ade S 327/406
There is no birth in South Australia for Ernest Albert HENDERSON with Father Arthur Louis HENDERSON.
Deidre may I ask where the name of Arthur Louis HENDERSON was found?
http://www.saghs.org.au/graves.htm
Death and In Memoriam Notices
HENDERSON Ernest Albert
Advertiser 1982
ROLES formerly HENDERSON nee COOK Margaret Lucy [Maudie, Maudy]
Advertiser 1989
For a small fee you can purchase a photocopy of the notices. Request form on website.
I also said
ROLES formerly HENDERSON nee COOK Margaret Lucy [Maudie, Maudy]
Advertiser 1989
It means that Margaret Lucy COOK married Ernest Albert HENDERSON and then she married a Mr ROLES. Now we don't know if she divorced Ernest Albert HENDERSON then married Mr ROLES or married Mr ROLES after Ernest's death in 1982. Perhaps her death notice may reveal more information. You would need to purchase the notice from SAGHS.
Did you purchase either of the death notices?
Cheers ;D
Cando
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I am flying into adelaide on thursday 27th, i am going to try and make time to get to saghs, i will be pusing it to get t here, but want to find out information so will have to get there
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Good Luck JACKEROO.
Let us know how you get on.
Johngirl
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will do, though i only have 1 day in adelaide
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Death
ROLES Earnest Sydney
21 Feb 1966 55 years Status Married No relative noted
Residence Kilburn Death Place Glenelg Ade 6A/1250
http://www.saghs.org.au/graves.htm
Cemetery Index
ROLES Ernest Sydney (Dick)
Source date 1966
ROLES Margaret Lucy
Source date 1989
Cando
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thanks, still more i can work on while i try and find time to get to saghs,
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Marriages
17890/1942
ROLES Ernest Sydney
CRAWFORD Bessie Noele
District Wagga Wagga
2nd marriage for his wife
15019/1945
HILL Donald Maxwell
ROLES Bessie Noele
District Goulburn
Australian Electoral Rolls
NSW 1936 Commonweath Macqaurie State Yass
ROLES Ernest Sydney Lorraine, Taralga Farmhand
ROLES, Ernest Sydney
Royal Australian Air Force Service# A4956 (20938)
Born 14 Mar 1910 Sydney
Enlisted 30 Jan 1941 at Woolstonecraft Locality Sydney NSW
NOK Margaret Lucy ROLES
Discharged 17 Dec 1945
Rank Leading Aircraftman Posting at Discharge - 3 Reserve Personnel Pool
There is a service file on that if you wished to know more, you could purchase
from http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx
ROLES, Ernest Sydney A4956
Barcode 8194752
Series number A12372 Series accession number A9301/1 Control symbol A4956
Contents date range 1940-1951 Location Canberra
Access status-Open Date of decision-28 Oct 2004
Indicators - Withdrawn long term
Deidre have you thought of using the Ask a Librarian service at the State Library of South Australia for the newspaper death notice for Ernest S?
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=387
I suggest you use the online enquiry form. The link is on the website. If you use the telephone service you may not necessarily be answered by staff at SLSA.
Cando
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will have to get onto that and seek help through library
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Deidre would you please read this link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368728.0.html
May assist you when making future requests.....and especially the paragraph that mentions saying thank you.
Cando
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in reply to a personal note from cando, i have appreciated any or all information anyone has given or helped me with,
i am still looking for an answer to margaret lucy cook who married ernest albert henderson, then for some reason either married another called roles. i looked to another site for this as well, the lady gave me information, probably the same as cando had supplied but not any information as to who this roles person is or was, or when margaret lucy supposedly married him
not everyone can buy or afford to buy certificates, of death,marriage or birth, i am one of these, who cannot do so, some times it helps going onto other sites, this certain lady on the other site 2 years ago, found a relative of a person i was looking for. so if this lady gave me the same information of margaret lucys, siblings , i am thankful for that as well as anyone who gives the time, to reply to any requests for information, i am thankful and greatful to anyone who helps, so do not think this it is not so
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i am still looking for an answer to margaret lucy cook who married ernest albert henderson, then for some reason either married another called roles.
I can't see where anyone has suggested you purchase certificates, of death,marriage or birth. I did suggest you may like to purchase information from SAGHS which would possibly have been a cheaper option than visiting and paying to use their library. It is not a free service.
The information you seek has already found and has been posted on this and the linked thread. I will detail it again as you don't appear to have read it thoroughly. Margaret Lucy COOK either had two marriages or one marriage and a relationship.
Marriage in South Australia
HENDERSON Ernest Albert 23 years Status single Father Arthur HENDERSON
COOK Margaret Lucy 18 years Status Single Father Frederick William COOK
9 May 1931
At St Laurences Priory North Adelaide Ade S 327/406
Marriages in New South Wales
17890/1942
ROLES Ernest Sydney
CRAWFORD Bessie Noele
District Wagga Wagga
2nd marriage for his wife
15019/1945
HILL Donald Maxwell
ROLES Bessie Noele
District Goulburn
Birth date for Ernest Sydney ROLES
Born 14 Mar 1910 Sydney Source http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/
Australian Electoral Rolls
NSW 1936 Commonweath Macqaurie State Yass
ROLES Ernest Sydney Lorraine, Taralga Farmhand
NOK Margaret Lucy ROLES Source http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/
This indicates to me that between Ernest Sydney ROLES first marriage in 1942 and his date of discharge 17 Dec 1945 [his 1st wife's re-married in 1945], he either married or formed a relationship with Margaret Lucy COOK. There is no marriage record in NSW to 1958 and available marriage records for South Australia only extend to 1937.
If the NOK alters during the period of the service record it appears the the last NOK is entered on the WW2 Roll.
Deaths
ROLES Earnest Sydney
21 Feb 1966 55 years Status Married No relative noted
Residence Kilburn Death Place Glenelg Ade 6A/1250
Death and In Memoriam Notices
HENDERSON Ernest Albert
Advertiser 1982
ROLES formerly HENDERSON nee COOK Margaret Lucy [Maudie, Maudy]
Advertiser 1989
http://www.saghs.org.au/graves.htm
Cemetery Index
ROLES Ernest Sydney (Dick)
Source date 1966
ROLES Margaret Lucy
Source date 1989
What other information are you seeking?
Cando
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Hi JACKEROO,
The main death notice lists
ROLES On the 21 Feb at hospital, Ernest Sydney (Dick) Roles of 383 Churchill Road, Kilburn, ex 24 City of Adelaide Squadron. R.A.A.F. and late S.A.R. Dearly loved husband of Margaret, loving stepfather of Pat (Mrs Bradley) Lawrence and Bryan Henderson. Aged 55 years.
Two funeral notices - one from the Air Force Ass Enfield - the other from the No 24 City of Adelaide Squadron
Funeral for E R ROLES (Dick) will leave 383 Churchill Rd Kilburn on the 23 Feb at 2.30 for the Enfield Cemetery
Cheers Kris :)
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The Advertiser 2 Sep 1889
ROLES Margaret Lucy (nee Cook) On Sep 1 at SCDH late of 107 Fenchurch Street and West Park Nursing Home Goolwa. Much loved and loving wife of the late E. S. (Dick) ROLES late 24 squadron, City of Adelaide and S A R Islington. Three Children listed Patricia, Lawrence Ashleigh Henderson and Bryan James Henderson. (More details on their residences at the time)
Reunited with her beloved Richard.
So Mote it Be
Separate notices from Laurence detailing family, Pat detailing family
also
ROLES Margaret Lucy (nee COOK) Eldest daughter of the late Frederick and Margaret COOK of Kilburn and loving sister of Marge, Dot, Kath, Fred, Lorna and Mick. A link in the chain has broken.
2 others from sisters Dot and Kath and one listing her as Aunt.
Funeral Sep 4 St Johns of Goolwa at 10 am followed by a graveside service at Enfield Evergreen General Section. Meet at 12.45 at Browning St entrance.
In lieu of flowers donation to Motor Neurons Society or St Johns Church Goolwa.
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks to help from another 'chatter, unable to locate a birth for Ernest Sydney ROLES on the date and place noted in service summary on
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/
Cheers
Cando
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Beggars question was he born illegitimate under his mothers name perhaps?
Jenn
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thank you you once again for help, i did not get a chance to get to SAGHS, owing to flight delays from orange to sydney and having to re schedule flights, i only had 4 hours in total in adelaide after picking up my daughter who was also delayed due to my flight delays
appreciate all help and information
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Hi there, I came across this thread in a random family google search. I am Margaret's Grand daughter. If you'd like any further infomation or perhaps my Father's(Lawrence) contact details, drop me a message sometime. Cheers, Margaret :)
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Hi there Margaret,
Big Welcome to Rootschat
I am not a relative. Jackeroo has not been online at RChat for a while, but I am sure that the other RChatters who have posted on this thread will try to help you with any further information about Ernest Sydney ROLES.
Cheers, JM
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i do check in now and then to see what is oging on or see if htereis anyone searching for the same as i am, it is awhiel since i logged in an dit is a pleasant surprise to find there is a grand daughter of margaret luch and i iwl lbe able to swop information when she gets back in touch with me have already sent a message to her,
andi do appreciate a ny or all help from all person on the site
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have already sen tyou a message looking forward to swapping information
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while looking for margaret lucy cook married ernest albert henderson, also found margaret must have married a fellow called roles.
the only one i could find was ernest sydney roles(dick), .....
Hi Jackeroo,
Did you establish that your Margaret Lucy Cook had married this Ernest Sydney Roles ?
Cheers, JM
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Hi there, I learnt a few new things I didn't know of here. It's a well of information :) I never got to meet Dick as he had passed on a long time before I was born. I do know that my Grandma and him are buried together at the same grave location in Enfield. I had a quick chat with my family in SA today, and filled them in on this forum(they hadn't any idea this place existed either!). Deidre, I'll inbox you back shortly, I'm still figuring out how to navigate around the site :)
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Hi Margaret
Ernest Sydney Role's War Service files are not yet digitised, but the details about how to obtain them were mentioned earlier in this thread back in August 2009, at reply no. 7. It usually takes less than three months to have applications to the NAA result in the digitisation of those files and thus being then uploaded onto their website.
Here is the current link to the NAA's website, search as a guest.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx
Cheers, JM
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thank you ;D
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Hi Jackeroo,
Would you please answer my question ... I think it is important to establish that you and our new RChatter are both connected in some way to your Margaret Lucy COOK and our new RChatter's Ernest Sydney ROLES.
Cheers, JM
while looking for margaret lucy cook married ernest albert henderson, also found margaret must have married a fellow called roles.
the only one i could find was ernest sydney roles(dick), .....
Hi Jackeroo,
Did you establish that your Margaret Lucy Cook had married this Ernest Sydney Roles ?
Cheers, JM
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margaret lucy cook was the daughter of frederick wiliam cook, my grandmothers brother, my grand mother was lucy cook, there was a split in this family years ago and noone knows why or what happened, i can only presume it has something to do with fanny mader/cook nee gill, suicide in 1906
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Therefore we are related :)
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This is good news for both of you.
Cheers, JM
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you can say that again, cousins found once again through roots chat.com
i sent you my email in messages,
it has been a long hard search to find anything on lucy cook my grandmother, from SA< where my mother was also born
my mother neverknewor spoke of her mothers family all i oculd think of is she was never told anything
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I am researching the Henderson family on behalf of Bryan who is Margaret Lucy COOK's younger son. In June 1944, she divorced her husband Ernest Albert HENDERSON on the grounds of his adultery with Kathleen Maud James whose husband was also granted a decree nisi at the same time. (Ref: Chronicle Thursday 29 June 1944, p25 - sourced through Trove). I haven't yet found out when (or if) Margaret married Ernest Sydney (Dick) ROLES but he was a great step father to Bryan. We would welcome any information or contact to further this research. Lyn Clark
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Hi there Lyn Clark,
Welcome to Rootschat, I am not a family member but I have contributed to this thread. I notice that Ernest Sydney ROLES ADF file is still not digitised, but I do know that quite often those service files contain items of correspondence from family members. After re-reading back over the thread, I can see that several of us have suggested obtaining his file.
Here's the link to the National Archives of Australia http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?ServiceId=R&VeteranId=1205484 At this link you can see that Margaret Lucy ROLES was nominated as his next of kin.
Cheers, JM
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Yes, the paperwork is very interesting. Bryan obtained a set when he visited Canberra not long ago. It seems to me, that Dick may have been a ward of the state or something like that as at the time of his enlistment in 1940, it is noted that his certificate from the Child Welfare Dept had been sighted (beside his date of birth entry). He listed as his next of kin : Ernest Ralph Iverack (who lived with Hilda May Iverack at 18 Nicholson St North Sydney) At this stage, I have no idea what the relationship was with Mr Iverack. At the end of his WW2 service, Margaret Lucy Roles is listed as his NOK and again when he applied to join the Reserve Air Force after the war.
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Hi and welcome to rootschat
It would be helpful for your research to obtain a copy of the first marriage of Ernest Syndey Roles. He would have supplied any details re his birth.
It is cheaper to use a transcation agent than the BDM department and you will slo get it a lot quicker too.
Jenn
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Hi
Ernest R Iverach married Hilda May Spark Goulburn 8345/1930
Muss
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hi
Ernest Iverach was also in the Air Force
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=R&veteranId=914914
Muss
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Hi
Probate for Ernest Iverach died 1969
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/
Muss
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Hi
Ryerson Index
Ernest Ralph died 4 Jul 1969 late of Grafton SMH 7 Jul 1969
Hilda May died 5 Nov 2002 age 96 SMH 6 Nov 2002
Muss
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Hi
This may be not the correct Ernest Roles
Reg for a Ernest Roles in 1916 Wagga Waggs mother Violet.
In 1922 a Violet Roles marries a Albert J Haisell Reg Cootamundra.
WW1 file for Albert J Haisell containing a letter from his wife which states they are a family of 11.
worth thinking about
Muss
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Adding to Muss's notes
ROLES Ernest W.
1916
Mother Violet G.
Wagga Waga
#3252
ROLES Ivy M.
1917
Mother Violet
Cootamundra
#48184
Sue
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Sands 1903 Country (NSW) Directory
Iverach Bros., Blacksmiths, Coolamon
NSWER BLAND, polling at Coolamon (1903, sorry for omitting that originally)
All with surname IVERACH, all residing at Coolamon (no street name mentioned)
George, labourer
James, wheelwright
Jane, domestic duties
Jemima, domestic duties
Peter, farmer
Noting, NONE with surname ROLES at that polling place in 1903.
off to check other polling places in that electorate for ROLES :)
Cheers, JM
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NSWER 1903 BLAND,
Polling at Junee
John ROLES, of Old Junee, labourer.
Fingers crossed :)
Cheers, JM
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Helping to round things-
Birth
IVERACH Ernest Reg 2581. Yr 1905. Parents- Peter & Mary at Narrandera
Sue
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Following from Sue’s find, perhaps this will be of interest
NSW ER 1913 ORANGE polling at Molong
Mary Elizabeth IVERACH, Police station, domestic duties
Peter Donald IVERACH, Police station, police constable
Cheers, JM
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Hi
The Ernest Roles born 1916 Wagga Wagga died 1916 Wagga Wagga.
Muss
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Hi
Bessie Roles WW2
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?ServiceId=A&VeteranId=364540
Muss
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Thank you so much for all the suggestions and links. I'm in the process of following them up and also talking more with Bryan.
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Hi Muss,
Thanks for the link to the Army records for Bessie ROLES. She seems to have had a pretty busy time
Enlisted in the Army - date unknown
- 1942 Married Ernest Sydney ROLES
- 1943 Discharged from Army
- 1944 In the divorce courts in Nov with HILL being listed as co-respondent
- 1945 Married Donald Maxwell HILL, Goulburn NSW
She appears to have still been residing with Donald in Goulburn according to 1980 Electoral Rolls.
Cheers, Lyn
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As suggested by tropicalj I now have Ernest's marriage to Bessie Crawford certificate. His father is listed as George ROLES (deceased) Labourer and mother unknown. I am still unable to locate information about a marriage between Ernest Sydney ROLES and Margaret Lucy HENDERSON (nee COOK). Any information welcome.
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The marriage index in SA only extends to 1937 but marriage certificates can be purchased if the event occurred in South Australia more than 60 years ie before 1953. They didn't marry in NSW to 1962.
Perhaps Bryan should contact the SA BDM's for further help.
Cando
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So if anyone is interested I've sat down and talked to Pat Bradley.
She has a wealth of knowledge on all the family history.
I have information on reason for divorce
Ernest roles and how he came into the picture.
Who is next of kin were and where he came from.
However the story is quite dark. So if you want more information I'm happy to pass it on but I am unsure a public forum is best to talk about some of the stuff