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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 11:56 BST (UK)

Title: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 11:56 BST (UK)
Hi! Was wondering if anyone can help decipher any of this marriage entry for Michael Noon and Amanda Gowans I cant seem to make any of it out! Its the first entry on the page. Any help much appreciated!
Thanks Justine x
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 12:30 BST (UK)
No much so far but a possible start ::)

Michael Moon, ? dyer, batchelor;

Father, Bartholomew Moon
Occp, Ship agent.........
Mother, Mary, nee Carter


Amanda Gowans;
Father, Dennys? Gowans, farm labourer

Mother, Mary Gowans, nee Barnes?

Wish you luck ;)

Trish

Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: Subaru on Sunday 23 August 09 12:44 BST (UK)
Wow, good luck with this one ???

Could Michal's father have been 'Ship Yard Labourer'?

Looks like they were living at the same residence when they married, maybe with their family but in rooms?
Apart from that I'll go with Trish on the rest.

Rosemary
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 12:58 BST (UK)
Thanks to both of you! You got more than me! That gives me a bit more info to go on. Thanks so much x
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 23 August 09 13:02 BST (UK)
Hi Justine
I'm not surprised you cannot read it. What shocking writing!
I think i have been able to decipher most of it

25 November St Mary's Chapel (Dundee ?)

After instruction according to the (?)of the Catholic Church, Michael Noon 21 (Yarn?)Dyer , batchelor of 46 Derby Street (Dundee?). Father Bartholomes Noon Ship Yard labourer & mother Mary Noon m.s.(maiden surname )Planter ? or Carter ?I can't make  that out

Amanda Gowans 22 (Yarn ?) , spinster witness John ?.Her address  46 Derby Street Dundee, father Henry Gowans  Farm labourer & mother Mary Gowans  m.s. Brown
Witnesses  Henry Gowans and  Maggie (Kinster?)

Marriage registered 1881 November 25th - signed Augustus MacDiarmid i think


Regards
Irene
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: Lambendsor (aka IGS) on Sunday 23 August 09 13:15 BST (UK)
I think Michael was a "Yarn Dyer" - compare with "Yard" in "Ship Yard Labourer"
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 13:33 BST (UK)
Not sure about this but may be relevant ???
The Margaret NOON is what got me , could it be Moon. Also living Derby St.


1881 Census

61 Derby Street
Dundee
Parish Dundee/Ed 26a/9/11/1881

Francis GOWANS, 63, head,masons lab, Forfarshire, Frockheim
Mary Gowans, 53, wife, Forfarshire, Leysmill
AMANDA GOWANS, 21, daughter,occp reeler, born Frockheim
Jessie Gowans, 19, daug, reeler, frockheim
James Gowans, 17, son, millworker, Frockheim
Charles GAUDY, 12, grandson, millworkerr, Arbroth, Forfarshire
Elizabeth HENRY, 10mths,granddaug, Dundee, Forfathshire
Margaret NOON, 1mth, granddaug, Dundee
Wm Gowans, 3, grandson, Dundee
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 13:36 BST (UK)
Where are Michael and Amanda living in 1891?
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 14:02 BST (UK)
Hi Guys,
             This is great! Yes it is Noon so Margaret must be a relation. Amanda is on it too I see but where is Michael??
Irene - What a great job! How did you do it :o
Yes Michael Noon is a yarn dyer and it was St Marys Chapel in Dundee.
I thought it said David Street but Derby Street makes more sense as that is the area where the family is from.
Thanks a lot xx
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 14:09 BST (UK)
Having just looked again I think that Amandas father is Francis Gowans now that I know it looks very clear lol.
Did all these people live in the same house?
Do you think maybe Michael and Amanda were related as why is Maragaret Noon living there as grandaughter. It wasn't that common a name for it to be a coincidence.
Justine
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 14:24 BST (UK)
Amanda Gowans died in 1889 aged 29 I think it may have been related to child birth as her son was born the same year, she wont be on the 1891 census.
I know that Michael remarried a Sarah MGrath in 1891.
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 23 August 09 14:34 BST (UK)
Could Margaret Noon be the illegitimate daughter of Michael Noon and Amanda Gowans and were they living together at 46 Derby Street when they married?
Does the occupation of Amanda on the marriage certificate say "mother young child"?

Irene
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 14:36 BST (UK)
On a roll. Have attached Margarets birth entry she was Michaels and Amandas illegitimate child! Can anyone make out the second last colum?
Thanks Justine
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 14:38 BST (UK)
Sorry Irene just noticed your post as you can see you were right! And to think my mother - in - law said no scandal as they were devout catholics  :o. Ha Ha
Justine
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 23 August 09 14:41 BST (UK)
Amanda Gowans  mother her mark
Garbutt Registrar Witness
Michael Noon Father
Same address
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 23 August 09 14:48 BST (UK)
Well at least they married! A bit late maybe but better late than never.

Would their marriage legitimise the child?
It would today but I'm nt sure back then.

Irene
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 15:02 BST (UK)
What does mother her mark mean??
Have just looked up Michael Noons birth entry - born in Dumbarton. Fathers name seems to be Barltey or Bartley is that a known name? Mothers maiden name is Flaharty I think - sounds Irish.
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 23 August 09 15:08 BST (UK)
When someone signs with a x it means she couldn't write so an x witnessed by someone is quite common on legal documents.

I think from the marriage certificate Michaels father is Bartholomew - sometimes shortened to Barty.

Irene
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 15:11 BST (UK)
Well I see you've all figured it out :) I've been off-line although logged in. I didnt want to put that I thought first child was illegitimate as sometimes people get offended.

So we have Francis as Amandas Father and Bartley /Bartholomew for Michaels

Cheers,
Trish
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 15:18 BST (UK)
IGI has this marriage;

Francis GOWANS
Mary BROWN
17 January 1845, Inverkeilor, Angus, Scotland ( extracted)

Looks like you got it Irene ;D

So there will be other siblings born earlier that do not appear on 1881 census
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 15:31 BST (UK)
Don't worry nothing offends me! I had an illigitimate child myself  ::)!
What is IGI?
Most of the stuff I have found on Scotlands people however where can you look for anything before 1855?
My husband will be pleased that it is Bartholomew he seemed quite upset when I said it might just be Bartley.
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: juzzyje;;ybean on Sunday 23 August 09 15:38 BST (UK)
Googled IGI and got the site, not sure how I have never came across it before!
Got a hit for Bartlay Noon married Mary Flaharty. Yay!
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 23 August 09 16:37 BST (UK)
Well done ;D
Re illeg. child me too ;)

Trish
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: Isabel H on Sunday 23 August 09 19:36 BST (UK)
In the 1881 census (taken 4th April) Michael Noon is at 45 Derby St. with his mother, Mary Noon, who was born in Ireland.
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: Subaru on Sunday 23 August 09 21:25 BST (UK)
Looks like it was 45 and not 46 Derby Street that they were married from? 

And they moved in with Michael's mum.  I had to look twice, with the ages being so close together.  His mum must have had him when she was 18.


Rosemary
Title: Re: Can anyone help?
Post by: Isabel H on Sunday 23 August 09 22:30 BST (UK)
Looks like it was 45 and not 46 Derby Street that they were married from?
Rosemary
The marriage cert. seems quite clearly to say 46. It was quite common for people to move house within a small area, maybe to get more space, or a cheaper rent, or whatever, so they could have moved; or the census transcription may be wrong; or the young couple and their baby may have moved in next door to his mum.