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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: margaret103 on Wednesday 19 August 09 22:15 BST (UK)
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A rather unsatisfactory ending - what happened to Emily the second wife. Where did she dissapear to? If the professional Researchers can't find her what hope have the likes of us got?
Also why did Robert leave Worthing?
But a very interesting programme which was quite enlightening.
Margaret
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A rather unsatisfactory ending - what happened to Emily the second wife. Where did she dissapear to? If the professional Researchers can't find her what hope have the likes of us got?
Also why did Robert leave Worthing?
But a very interesting programme which was quite enlightening.
Margaret
I thought "that's throwing down the challenge for Rootschatters!"
Carole
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Fascinating info about the syphilis - didn't realise it could 'work itself out'.
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A rather unsatisfactory ending - what happened to Emily the second wife. Where did she dissapear to? If the professional Researchers can't find her what hope have the likes of us got?
Also why did Robert leave Worthing?
But a very interesting programme which was quite enlightening.
Margaret
The syphilis thing was interesting, wonder if Richard also passed it through his other children from the earlier marrages as they said that some had died and some were unaccounted for.
Do you think they really searched for the marriage of Richard and the 3rd wife as it showed as a search on free bmd. Not going through the fiches. I do think that if people who are starting out watched and think if they cant find it on Freebmd it didn't happen, is a misleading.
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A rather unsatisfactory ending - what happened to Emily the second wife. Where did she dissapear to? If the professional Researchers can't find her what hope have the likes of us got?
Also why did Robert leave Worthing?
But a very interesting programme which was quite enlightening.
Margaret
I thought "that's throwing down the challenge for Rootschatters!"
Carole
Is that permissable, or is it thought to be not the Done Thing?
Cos, I've just found Emily on the 1891 before she married Richard, I thought it might help to find her in 1901........
RG12; Piece: 837; Folio 111; Page 13
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For me, one of the best because of the explanation and pics re 19th century congenital syphilis.
Have a death 1895 age 4/12 from congenital syphilis; current pathologists thought this unlikely but the expert from GOS revealed so much.
My saga re this was rather similar to his, so thrilled, as it explains what I thought was not possible.
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Really interesting, especially that she had been infected twice. Which possibly means that the father had caught it from one of his previous wives (or a caual encounter?)
I wonder if any of his earlier children had also suffered the same fate. ( I see that possiblity has already been mentioned!) occured .
An hour wasn't enough for this search
Spring
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Well it all too often didn`t! The tertiary stage often manifester itself in what was called General Paralysis of The Insane and meant sufferers were not of sound mind, it is a frightening thought that Randolph Churchill(Winston`s father ) was Foreign Secretary whilst in the tertiary stages with the associated mental health problems .
Aristocracy and society women expected to lose their first child at least because when they married their husbands were in the active stage of the disease ,by the second child the birth was premature and the third child often survived .It was a great tragedy that many women whose husbands infected them were blamed for these losses and their subsequent inability to conceive .The wife of Prince Rudolph( ,who committed suicide (or did he?) with his mistress at Mayerling)was unable to conceive because she was infected by him and was shunned at the Austrian court because of that when it was not her fault -but little was understood in those days. The disease could lie "dormant" for many years and then manifest itself in later life as G.P.I . It really could pre peniciilin days be passed down the generations. Getting Biblical now! ! !
We had to do a good bit of work on it in one of my jobs as we had to recognise babies born with it . They have a different cry and the bridge of their nose is flattened, they look rather wizened and the ear shape can be pixie-like . Poor little lambs. Viktoria. now!!
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Perhaps the 1911 census hadn't come on line when the researchers were doing their stuff, but there is an Emily Freeman bn 1857 Petworth in East Preston district (the district Tarring comes under I think)
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Really interesting, especially that she had been infected twice. Which possibly means that the father had caught it from one of his previous wives (or a casual encounter?)
I wonder if any of his earlier children had also suffered the same fate. ( I see that possibility has already been mentioned!) occurred .
An hour wasn't enough for this search
Spring
Could it also be the cause of His blindness, maybe if we go back over his family there will be big gaps of children born and dying young. Maybe they both brought it through both the lines.
Was quietly amused by how many children he had over his many wives.
My husband is the eldest of 7 and his mother is also Blind. Always joked it was a form of hobby she could get involved in with out being sighted.
(also Dorton house Blind school is a lovely as it looks. My 2 sighted children have private swimming lessons there every week. Mother in law should have gone there in the 50s but her mother wanted her home for weekends and the school wouldn't allow it only home at the end of term. They do now though. Katie Prices Son goes there too so they have had a fair bit of publicity over the last few years too.) sorry totally off topic just thought you might like some more info :)
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My gt-grandparents lost 5 out of their 9 children - 4 in a row either stillborn or up to a few months old, then a girl who survived and then another lost child. This would be in the 1870s. The fact that around 10% of the population would have been suffering from syphilis at that time is startling.
There's never been any mention of syphilis in family legend (well, there wouldn't be, would there :-[), nor of blindness, but after watching this programme I'm beginning to wonder whether I should be sending for some death certificates for those lost children.
Gt-grandfather was a pillar of the Strict & Particular Baptist Church, but maybe he wasn't strict or particular enough. :o
Gillg
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Perhaps the 1911 census hadn't come on line when the researchers were doing their stuff, but there is an Emily Freeman bn 1857 Petworth in East Preston district (the district Tarring comes under I think)
Does she have any children living with her? I dont have acess to the 1911 census at the moment. Maybe the third marriage was not legal.
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Gt-grandfather was a pillar of the Strict & Particular Baptist Church, but maybe he wasn't strict or particular enough. :o
Gillg
LOL they said that lots of people just didnt know.
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I really liked this programme - it reminded me more of the original programmes which centred more on the research journey and less on a history lesson.
I also wondered about the missing marriage certificate for Richard and Ada. I can't imagine they did not go through the Marriages page by page (although I am tempted to have a look myself) but agree they could have made that clearer.
I also questioned the six alive and six died calculation as in their family tree diagram they were including Phillip as one of the six from "this" marriage although they knew he was from the marriage to Fanny. i wondered if whoever filled in the form for Richard and Ada in 1911 misunderstood or did it wrong. Perhaps the other two children who died were actually those from his earlier marriage (as referred to earlier in the programme). Possibly not - but just a thought :)
But very interesting about the Syphalis - I didn't know that. Would be interesting to see what Ada's parents died of.
Also - I can't remember which of his wives they had a death certificate for. What did his second wife die of and how does that fit in time-wise with his mysterious demise as the church organist? Maybe there was some scandal?
Yes - lots of questions for Rootschatters to dig into.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Milly
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General Paralysis of The Insane and meant sufferers were not of sound mind
My great, great uncle died of that. He had 3 wives, but as far as I have found out so far, no children who died. I'll have to research further but as he had a common name and his first marriage was in 1876, 2nd in 1887 and third in 1896 there would be too many children born during that time with his surname to know which were his.
Lizzie
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Viktoria,
I know that years ago there was a theory that Henry V111 suffered from Syphilis as it manifested itself as megalomania in later years ? Hence the executions. Barrenness of Mary, early death of Edward.and other still births.
When you realize that many of these diseases become resistant to modern drugs, I do wonder if later generations will suffer the same horrors that our ancestors did.
Sexual diseases are still rife, as human nature doesn't change
Spring.
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especially the comment at the end about how many of us could find ancestors with a certain medical condition. I haven't knowingly found any yet?
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especially the comment at the end about how many of us could find ancestors with a certain medical condition. I haven't knowingly found any yet?
Yeah Mum & I commented on that too, I have collected a lot of Death certs over the years, I usualy buy the direct desendants one & then at least one for each generation of a branch of a tree ............ I havent found a single one yet in any branch with anything that could be syphillis or its effects.
Gaille
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But I have found families where there are multiple infant child deaths within a few years and then children who live into adulthood such as was shown. I must admit it makes me wonder.
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I think this particular episode that Martin Freeman had with discovering his ancestors, could have been longer as there are so many still un-answered questions that have already been mentioned on this thread.
I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was extremely interesting.
Roll on the next series.
Is there any other programmes on tv related to family history on at the moment now that WDYTYA and HH is finished that roots chatters recommend?
Hazel
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We often ignore death certificates as it doesn't help us get further back in our research but this episode showed how important they can be in understanding our ancestors lives.
I recently ordered the death certificates of my grandfathers 3 siblings who died within 18months of each other. They died of gastritis, bronchitis and meningitis All a sign of poor living conditions and no antibiotics. Very sad.
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I particularly enjoyed this episode. My Grandmother had a sister who died at 3 months of "congenital syphilis"in 1903...and my grandmother went blind in later life...yet their Mother who passed it on, lived to be 87 and died of an unrelated disease.
Hope its died out well and truly by now! ;D
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This was interesting, some genealogy as we know it!
I read somewhere that Martin Freeman was going to do more research, once he had taken in all the information he had found.
If he joined Rootschat, I'm sure we could help 8)
There were lots of 'loose ends'.
As someone else remarked, this programme could have been in two parts.
What are we going to do now? No WDYTYA and no Heir Hunters :-\
Kooky
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Well I found that to be one of the most interesting in this current series. Back to real research and more generations and Martin looked like he was really interested in the research not just the results.
It also got me thinking, I am sure in one of my folders I have a death certificate with syphilis on it, I shall have to go and have a look.
I also have a family that had 5 out of 13 children born and died between 1901 and 1911 in a similar way to that illustrated on the programme, I'm going to have to get some of those death certificates!
Kerry
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A rather unsatisfactory ending - what happened to Emily the second wife. Where did she dissapear to? If the professional Researchers can't find her what hope have the likes of us got?
Also why did Robert leave Worthing?
But a very interesting programme which was quite enlightening.
Margaret
I thought "that's throwing down the challenge for Rootschatters!"
Carole
My thoughts exactly ! :)
My gt-grandparents lost 5 out of their 9 children - 4 in a row either stillborn or up to a few months old, then a girl who survived and then another lost child. This would be in the 1870s. The fact that around 10% of the population would have been suffering from syphilis at that time is startling.
There's never been any mention of syphilis in family legend (well, there wouldn't be, would there :-[), nor of blindness, but after watching this programme I'm beginning to wonder whether I should be sending for some death certificates for those lost children.
Gt-grandfather was a pillar of the Strict & Particular Baptist Church, but maybe he wasn't strict or particular enough. :o
Gillg
Despite the Victorian reputation for being god-fearing prudes, I think the real story is that they were just like any other generation with lusts and extra-marital affairs. The difference between them and us is that we have effective condoms, and they didn't. Condoms made out of pigs bladders were in use in those days, but they were quite ineffective in stopping the transmission of disease, in fact, they helped spread it, because they were washed out and re-used ! :o
I think I have a g.g. uncle and aunt who may have been afflicted by syphilis. They only had one child, who only lived one day, and didn't have any more after that. The mother died in a mental hospital aged 63 of a variation of TB which I think may be linked to syphilis.
P.S. I thought this programme was one of the better ones in the series.
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I was left wondering about why Granddad left his church organist job so quickly, with the rather knowing remark in the parish notes. Did they explain this, and I missed it? It hinted at a scandal, and I wonder if that had something to do with the syphilis.
I have noticed in graveyards there are often memorials which name a whole legion of children from one family who died at birth or in infancy. I always assumed that they were result of infectious diseases or poor living conditions. I'm going to buy the death certs of a couple of children in my own family who died at birth, as the pattern is much the same as Martin's.
An episode like this is really satisfying - plenty of social history, but with lots of genealogical mysteries too. Was that the last in the series?
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Didn't they say that Emily Cecilia, the child from Richard's second marriage to Emily Carter in 1891, was missing in 1901? or did I mishear? Anyway shes a niece staying with Charles (60 Ganger of platelayers) and Mary Ann (56) Green in New Fishbourne, Sussex
Theres also an Emil.. Freeman, age 46 widow Domestic Servant, born Petworth, living in a large household that seems to be a school, in Eton, Bucks RG13/1342 Folio 45 Page 5
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Perhaps the 1911 census hadn't come on line when the researchers were doing their stuff, but there is an Emily Freeman bn 1857 Petworth in East Preston district (the district Tarring comes under I think)
Does she have any children living with her? I dont have acess to the 1911 census at the moment. Maybe the third marriage was not legal.
No children, she is a cook for William Henry Mason (aged 73) and his wife Amy Harriet Mason (aged 49) at Malvern Lodge, Westbrook, Worthing. Emily is noted as being a widow.
When did Richard die?
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The Fiftieth Report of the Registrar General, 1887, comments that "by far the greater part of the registered deaths from syphilis occur in infancy, from inherited disease.........In infancy the male death-rate is very much higher than that of females..........the deaths from infantile syphilis occur mostly in the first year of life and in the first quarter of that year. Thus in the years 1881-85 there were in all 11,085 registered deaths from this disease among children under five. Of these 10,065 or 91 per cent, were in the first year of life, and of these again 5,566, or more than 50 per cent., were children under the age of three months".
http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/Show?page=Home
Stan
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This link may be of interest ,regarding present day statistics for sexually transmitted diseases.
http://www.avert.org/stdstatisticuk.htm
Spring
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You also have to bear in mind that incompatibility of blood groups could be the cause of miscarriage, premature and early infant deaths.
Carole
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I'm interested in that Carole. I have one family where the first child survived to adulthood and all the other following five died shortly after birth. I've always thought that was probably rhesus incompatability.
The syphilis pattern of deaths seems to be different though. I'll be back to my family tree later to see if that particular pattern occurs.
Anne
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I thought the episode was alright.
He wasted his time ordering the service records. He could have got the information he used (grandfather's date of death) for free off of the CWGC website.
Apart from that, its not everyday that you end up in a sexual health clinic as a direct result of researching your family tree. ;)
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I agree - so interesting and almost too much information for the hour.
I have to say that initially I thought that the discussion on syphilis was being used to pad out the programme and was quite shocked when it turned out to be true. (only shocked in the sense of not being a 'filler').
I had to laugh too when, I think it was in the church, there was discussion about whether Richard had been previously married.
My husband, who has no interest in research etc, remarked 'Why don't they look him up in the censuses!' and then the chap produced the 1891 census ;D
I think this series has been overall - good.
As has been said- what are we going to do without it and Heir Hunters :'(
heywood
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He wasted his time ordering the service records. He could have got the information he used (grandfather's date of death) for free off of the CWGC website.
The service papers told him that he was killed in action which the CWGC site does not. He could have died of wounds suffered earlier but that information helped towards confirming that was the most likely date he was injured and died - which narrowed down the search in the war diary.
Service records are never a waste of time in my opinion - you never know what you might learn - and it is good to show the viewer that it is not just a matter of doing a bit of surfing on the net.
I loved this programme - but I do wonder if the experts were primed a little too much.... I found it a little odd that the expert came up with syphillis so definitely and so early on... and then low and behold that is what it said on her brother's death cert.... Could it possibly be that they had the death cert and then worked backwards ::) ::)
Milly ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Milly,
I agree- in this programme particularly, certificates and information were being produced like rabbits out of a hat :D,for example, the chap in the church and the expert doctor.
I suppose, because it was packed with information, they had to do this.
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Perhaps the 1911 census hadn't come on line when the researchers were doing their stuff, but there is an Emily Freeman bn 1857 Petworth in East Preston district (the district Tarring comes under I think)
Does she have any children living with her? I dont have acess to the 1911 census at the moment. Maybe the third marriage was not legal.
No children, she is a cook for William Henry Mason (aged 73) and his wife Amy Harriet Mason (aged 49) at Malvern Lodge, Westbrook, Worthing. Emily is noted as being a widow.
When did Richard die?
He was listed with his family in the 1911 census living in Hull, so he was still alive then. Perhaps this was the scandal? Either that he got divorced, or that he abandoned his wife.
I was fascinated with this syphilis information because my great great grandfather's first wife died in November 1869 with phthisis given as the cause of death. Their 13 month old daughter then died in April 1870 with hereditary syphilis given as the cause of death. They had two older children, who lived apparently healthy, long lives, and my great great grandfather went on to remarry a couple of years later and have 6 children, 5 of whom were healthy, but the middle one died aged one year of a convulsion fit.
I've been puzzling about this for a while now, whether my gggrandfather had syphilis and infected his first wife, or whether she contracted it from someone else. Are there any medical-type people on here who could shed any light?
Nick 29 I was interested to see that you linked TB and syphilis because the first wife's cause of death was phthisis...do you have any more information on that?
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When did Richard die?
According to the programme he died in 1915.
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Phthisis means tuberculosis of the lungs, also it means wasting away or enaciation and atrophy of the body or part of the body. Straight from the dictionary!
Margaret
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The whole syphilis/congenital syphilis and going on to remission, not all kids dying etc thing is interesting and complicated.
I am a medical-type person and thought I knew quite a lot about it, but what the chap on the programme said conflicts with what several pathologists/ GUM consultants have recently told me. I asked them because of my GG grandmother having a child who was certified as dying from congenital syphilis, in between other children who lived, and herself living until 77.
It has piqued my interest and I will do further research, but as have many family crises currently on-going, this will not be for a few weeks. But I will post here what I find, if anything.
Just remember, syphilis was by no means the only reason for many infant deaths - rhesus incompatibility would be another, but there are many many other causes for this. So we will not all have this explanation!
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The whole syphilis/congenital syphilis and going on to remission, not all kids dying etc thing is interesting and complicated.
I am a medical-type person and thought I knew quite a lot about it, but what the chap on the programme said conflicts with what several pathologists/ GUM consultants have recently told me. I asked them because of my GG grandmother having a child who was certified as dying from congenital syphilis, in between other children who lived, and herself living until 77.
It has piqued my interest and I will do further research, but as have many family crises currently on-going, this will not be for a few weeks. But I will post here what I find, if anything.
Just remember, syphilis was by no means the only reason for many infant deaths - rhesus incompatibility would be another, but there are many many other causes for this. So we will not all have this explanation!
Hi,what does this mean please ( rhesus incompatibility would be another,)would it be children born fron incest,
thank you
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I presume by rhesus incompatibility you mean the mother being rhesus negative? I am rhesus negative and needed an anti D injection after the delivery of my 2nd child 6 years ago. I am now pregnant with my third (and final!) baby and they have started giving anti D jabs during pregnancy now (twice!!) as well as after labour. As I understand it, it is in case the baby is rhesus positive which would react (fatally) with my "negative" blood?
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I note that it was Ada who was born with syphilis - not Richard who gave it to her. And did you note that she was having to make her living busking - for a blind girl that must have been so dangerous!
Funnily enough I remember when I was attending a pre-natal clinic, one of the other mums-to-be was being told very severely what she was to do after the birth of her child as she was rhesus negative - the nurse taking no notice of her "buts" - this lecture came to an end and the mum heaved a sigh and said "but my husband's negative too" - and we all , including the nurse, laughed. But no laughing matter, of course.
Regards
Derby Girl
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I note that it was Ada who was born with syphilis - not Richard who gave it to her.
I didn't quite understand this bit - how was the medical chap so certain that she had got rid of the syphilis in her childhood but then contracted it again after her marriage. Surely if she was as healthy and strong as she seemed, she could have lived with it being undetected for the intervening years?
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I thought Syphilis could lie dormant
It was an interesting episode though I fell asleep in the middle!
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Thanks for that, margaret103. I was interested that Nick29 said that TB (phthisis) might be linked with syphilis as I haven't heard about that before and would like to know more, as my gg grandfather's first wife seems to have had both.
I think I have a g.g. uncle and aunt who may have been afflicted by syphilis. They only had one child, who only lived one day, and didn't have any more after that. The mother died in a mental hospital aged 63 of a variation of TB which I think may be linked to syphilis.
As you say, though, phthisis did mean just a general debility and wasting away, which perhaps could have been caused by syphilis.
pjbuk007 if you do find out more about this, I'd be fascinated to hear about it.
I thought this was an absorbing programme, really good to have more than one generation investigated, although I was surprised that they gave up so easily on the search for Emily. Ada did seem to be an amazing woman. I hope Martin Freeman does do some more of his own research because they seem to be an intriguing family.
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Just watched this on iPlayer ... last weeks and this were definitely the best of the series. I have no idea who the 'star' was though !
I must look through my tree as I'm sure I've got cases of children dying as babies, one after the other ... well, well ! Syphilis !! Who'd have thought it ... ;D
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Does anyone who used to visit Blackpool remember a sort of museum which showed the effects of syphilis,gonorrhoea etc on people, the various stages of the diseases and the effects on babies etc by way of wax models with all the spots,chancres and other horrors in graphic detail? It was a must and as teenagers it sure was an attraction to us.It terrified us ,yet was fascinating .I seem to remember that the times being what they were alternate parties went round, males and then females, not the two together, but it was so realistic we`d have been embarrassed going round with the boys we were going out with( it was a long time ago!!!) Viktoria.
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Hi All
Quick answers;
Phthsisis is medical for Tuberculosis, not general debility etc (although those can be symptoms).
None of the above speculation is anything to do with incest! Although there was quite a lot of this about (then as now); there are some children in our tree where I speculate this could be the case.
I will try and contact the chap from the episode as I think I might know someone who knows him, regarding the natural history of syphilis in 19th century.
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if your interested;- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis
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You also have to bear in mind that incompatibility of blood groups could be the cause of miscarriage, premature and early infant deaths.
Carole
Yeah if anyone followed MY family they would wonder, Miscarriage followed by a live (and still living child) then a miscarriage, stillbirth, another 2 early miscarriages, live (and still living Child), Early Miscarriage, Another miscarriage, Live (and still living child) followed by another early miscarriage.
Looks awful doesnt it?
I wonder what the statistician Martin talked to would make of it? he would probably say it followed his pattern maybe? ............................ he would be wrong tho, the reason was a blood incompatibility between the mothers rare blood group & the fathers O blood, it wasnt until after the stillbirth it was diagnosed & attempts were made to save subsequesnt pregnancies.
This was diagnosed due to modern medicine, as it was in the recent past, but imagine if the mother had been in the 17 or 1800s? the doctors wouldnt have had a clue & wouldnt have been able to diagnose it.
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I agree - so interesting and almost too much information for the hour.
I have to say that initially I thought that the discussion on syphilis was being used to pad out the programme and was quite shocked when it turned out to be true. (only shocked in the sense of not being a 'filler').
I had to laugh too when, I think it was in the church, there was discussion about whether Richard had been previously married.
My husband, who has no interest in research etc, remarked 'Why don't they look him up in the censuses!' and then the chap produced the 1891 census ;D
I think this series has been overall - good.
As has been said- what are we going to do without it and Heir Hunters :'(
heywood
LOL I had to laugh too, my mum who isnt into this at all, just what she picks up from me, turned round n said "Why didnt they check his newer marriage cert, it would say 'widower' on it wouldnt it??"
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As I understand it, it is in case the baby is rhesus positive which would react (fatally) with my "negative" blood?
CatOne - No it's the exact opposite. Remember Rh.negative blood can be given to anyone in an emergency,(O Rh.Neg people are universal donors) it is Rh.positive that can't be, as it badly affects people with Rh.neg blood.
You have Rh.neg blood and presumably your husband has Rhesus positive. Your last baby must have been Rhesus positive (his/her blood will have been checked at birth). You would have been given Anti-D, in case any of that baby's blood spilled over (via the placenta etc) into your blood stream. If that happened and you weren't given Anti-D, your own system would have made antibodies against the Rh.positive blood that had got into your blood stream. You would be left with those antibodies, whereas the Anti-D given by injection disappears after it has done its work. If you were left with your own antibodies, and the next pregnancy produced a Rh.negative baby, that is the baby that would be affected (maybe fatally) by the antibodies it could get from you.
Hope that makes sense.
Lizzie
Lizzie, thats what happened in my family, both my mum & I are A-RH-Pos.
When my mum was pregnant each time she was in hospital on bed-rest & monitoring for as long as the hospital could get her in! with my brother she was in for six months as she kept having problems!
Thankfully things have moved on now & the injections make things so much safer for both mother & baby.
Gaille
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Gaille
I'll send you a PM about this rather than carry post on this topic.
Lizzie
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Hi everyone
Does anyone know when this episode is repeated?
I missed it the other night :'(
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"..the next pregnancy produced a Rh.negative baby, that is the baby that would be affected (maybe fatally) by the antibodies it could get from you."
Surely you mean Rh.positive.baby.
On another note, I have a friend who used to teach typing at the Sevenoaks blind school mentioned in the programme and my parents met the chap at the church in West Tarring when researching my mother's tree.
More importantly, I have been wondering whether there might be some information (in the form of a letter of dismissal or minutes, for example) in diocesan or other records at Chichester or elsewhere that could shed some light on Richard's exit from West Tarring.
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Oops - yes, too late at night - I had been out, but only drunk orange juice and lemonade because I was the driver. ::)
From a medical website:
Rhesus incompatibility problems can only arise when a woman's blood is rhesus negative and her baby's blood is rhesus positive.
This in turn can only happen if the baby's father's blood is also rhesus positive.
Generally speaking there are no problems during a woman's first pregnancy with a baby whose blood is rhesus positive.
But during childbirth, as opposed to during pregnancy, when there is potential mixing of maternal and foetal blood, the baby's blood can sensitise the woman to rhesus positive blood and if she has a subsequent pregnancy with a rhesus positive baby there is a risk of haemolytic disease of the newborn.
This occurs because the mother will have made antibodies to the rhesus positive blood of the baby, which will react much more strongly in a subsequent pregnancy.
Thankfully the anti-D injection you had immediately after having your first baby will have prevented any risk of this haemolytic disease of the newborn happening.
As it happens I have Rh.negative blood and none of my children have been affected, even though I had all but the last before Anti D was available and my OH has Rh.pos blood. I know at least 4 of my children have rh.negative blood. Like all things, blood grouping is very complex.
Lizzie
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I've deleted my previous "wrong" post. My brain was obviously not in place last night - happens quite often nowadays. ::)
Lizzie
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The Wikipedia article is a pretty good outline, but I was thinking more of the epidemiological aspects as relating to Martin Freeman and my own story.
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Hi everyone
Does anyone know when this episode is repeated?
I missed it the other night :'(
I dont know about repeats, as I dont have a TV (yes, there are some of us about !) but I watched it on iPlayer. Google the BBC site, and iplayer, and watch it on your computer ! (Assuming you are on broadband ... you wont get it otherwise ...)
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Hi everyone
Does anyone know when this episode is repeated?
I missed it the other night :'(
according to digiGuide the next repeat of the Martin Freeman episode is Tue 1st Sept at 7pm on BBC2
the Kim Catrall episode is repeated the previous week (25/8) at that time.
Shane
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Thanks for that, margaret103. I was interested that Nick29 said that TB (phthisis) might be linked with syphilis as I haven't heard about that before and would like to know more, as my gg grandfather's first wife seems to have had both.
I think I have a g.g. uncle and aunt who may have been afflicted by syphilis. They only had one child, who only lived one day, and didn't have any more after that. The mother died in a mental hospital aged 63 of a variation of TB which I think may be linked to syphilis.
As you say, though, phthisis did mean just a general debility and wasting away, which perhaps could have been caused by syphilis.
pjbuk007 if you do find out more about this, I'd be fascinated to hear about it.
I thought this was an absorbing programme, really good to have more than one generation investigated, although I was surprised that they gave up so easily on the search for Emily. Ada did seem to be an amazing woman. I hope Martin Freeman does do some more of his own research because they seem to be an intriguing family.
My g.g. grandmother's death certificate has a word after phthisis, but I can't quite make it out.
Looks like Biliontitis ?
Oh, I just worked it out ! I says Phthisis 6 Months ! I feel foolish now :-[
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Hi Nick
I think it says 6 months.
Barbara
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that (6 months) makes sense to me.. usually for an ongoing illness the death cert will have cause, duration and certified by ....
Shane
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Yes, I found that after I scanned and enlarged :-[
I'll get me coat....... ;D
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I just watched this week's WDYTYA with Martin Freeman.
At first, I thought they must be getting near the bottom of the barrel, as they seemed to labouring the point of how his g-father was killed in WW2, and I appreciate that not everyone can know what RAMC stands for, or what army badge features the Caduceus, and not everyone [even an actor] can be expected to be able to pronounce DESIROUS or GOUNOD correctly. But, just as I was losing the will to carry on, it suddenly all seemed worthwhile when they spoke to the man who knows about diseases, and he told us about how syphilis can cause sequences of peri-natal deaths.
Roll on the next series
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Thinking back to the programme I remember them saying Richard Freeman died in 1915, but didn't mention a cause - it would have been interesting to know what it was.
Carole
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Hi
My mum and dad are rhesus negative and positive. In 1957 they were told that it only usually affects the second and fifth pregnancies. My brother born in 1959 and sister born in 1973 were fine with no problems in the pregnancies.
Regards
Half Pint
From a medical website:
Rhesus incompatibility problems can only arise when a woman's blood is rhesus negative and her baby's blood is rhesus positive.
This in turn can only happen if the baby's father's blood is also rhesus positive.
Generally speaking there are no problems during a woman's first pregnancy with a baby whose blood is rhesus positive.
But during childbirth, as opposed to during pregnancy, when there is potential mixing of maternal and foetal blood, the baby's blood can sensitise the woman to rhesus positive blood and if she has a subsequent pregnancy with a rhesus positive baby there is a risk of haemolytic disease of the newborn.
This occurs because the mother will have made antibodies to the rhesus positive blood of the baby, which will react much more strongly in a subsequent pregnancy.
Thankfully the anti-D injection you had immediately after having your first baby will have prevented any risk of this haemolytic disease of the newborn happening.
As it happens I have Rh.negative blood and none of my children have been affected, even though I had all but the last before Anti D was available and my OH has Rh.pos blood. I know at least 4 of my children have rh.negative blood. Like all things, blood grouping is very complex.
Lizzie
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Blood groups are not only simply A, B, O ... etc, and + or - ...... there are also other factors like enzymes present in blood. Thus, when I was pregnant for the first time in Africa, and had a blood sample done at the African hospital, they thought they had muddled up my blood with someone elses (thank goodness I wasn't having a transfusion ! :o ) ... as my blood had the minor characteristics of someone from the Middle East or Greece or Italy ... not your usual Brit's blood. I got it checked again at a private hospital in Nairobi ... and the result was the same.
Thus ... I suspect that family rumours that my illegit fathers father had been an Italian or Greek sailor may well have been true !
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Lydart, that's really exciting! I wish when I'd had my blood taken during pregnancy it had thrown a light on the nationality of my mystery g-grandfather! Unfortunately I'm A Negative just like my mum and her family.
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I'm B neg and my husband is A pos. After my first child was born I was paranoid about having the anti D injection within the time limit, As it happens both my children are neg also so I needn't have worried. When I see the first child OK and subsequent ones dying in my tree that is the first thing I think of.
Anne
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The odd thing is that both my parents had Rh.positive blood but by some coincidence they both had to be considered Rh.negative if they ever had to receive blood, which was caused by something much more complex than the usual ABO blood types. Presumably it is because of this that I turned out to have Rh.neg blood. - And I'm definitely my father's daughter, I have his eyes, as has his mother and his grandmother - that is deep set, dark brown. I look just like his youngest sister too and nothing like my mother.
I wish I'd kept mum's blood card now after she died, so that I could have made a note of her exact blood type. I know dad had a card too, but I don't know what happened to that.
Lizzie
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I missed this, is it still on iplayer to watch?
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Doesn't appear to be available at the moment but the website says it is going to be repeated on Tuesday on BBC2. Maybe it will be back on iPlayer after that if you miss it.
Tue 1 Sep 2009 19:00 BBC Two (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland only)
Milly
;D
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I've made a note of that.
Thank you Milly
;)
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I was left wondering about why Granddad left his church organist job so quickly, with the rather knowing remark in the parish notes. Did they explain this, and I missed it? It hinted at a scandal, and I wonder if that had something to do with the syphilis.
I was a bit surprised the local papers weren't checked or previous Parish magazines, or maybe they did and found that the reason for leaving of the church was left out at Martin's request.
Jean
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I thought it might have something to do with 'wife' number three who was the end of the pier singer that he seems to have run off with!
Ermy