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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: nicktothewood on Friday 21 August 09 22:34 BST (UK)
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Hi everybody, I am new to rootschat and have a photograph which I am trying to pinpoint.
My dad found it in the shed at his great aunts house after she died in the 60's, the frame is falling apart and it looks like it has been hung up at some point in the past but not for a very long time. We are trying to work out whether the lady on the photo is a family member, but to do this we need to find out where the house is.
Anyway the photo is of a servant (woman) and a dog stood outside a huge house with gates and hedges round it (possibly country house) and underneath someone has written 'Ormonde Cottage' in really old fashioned copperplate writing. The house will definitely be somewhere in England. My family has lived in Malton/Norton, north yorkshire for many generations, but we don't think the house is in the area. However, someone may know different?
Would it be possible for someone to do some sort of old house name search?
I would put up a scan of the photo, but I am worried to take it out of the frame in case it falls apart.
If anyone could help I would be extremely greatful. Looking forward to finding out.
Regards, Nick.
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Not a lot to choose from on an Internet search.
http://www.ormondehouse.co.uk/welcome/index.php
http://www.smoothhound.co.uk/hotels/ormonde-house.html
Jamjar
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I had a look at those, but unfortunately neither of them look like it.
I have done a scan, apologies for the poor quality but i had to squeeze the photo into my scanner because it is stuck to a large cardboard background.
Regards, Nick.
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Maybe if you give us some family names the address may turn up on some census.
Jamjar
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There's this one, but no photo.
Ormonde Cottage, Newton Road, Torquay, Devon, TQ2 5DB
Jamjar
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hmmm I guess that is a possibility.
I would do, but the problem is we don't know, Auntie Emmy lived in the house that her parents had lived in before her, so it could have been any members of the Wood family really. We are fairly sure the woman is not Auntie Emmy however as she was disabled with an arched back and the woman on the photo isn't arched.
We thought it may have been Elisa/Eliza Stockdale (my great great grandma) b.1841 m.1863 (married Arthur Wood and became Elisa Wood) d.1921. However to me the photo looks to have been taken around 1890 ish? and Eliza had children before that and was a housewife until she died as far as I know. She is not listed as a servant on the censuses after she was married.
Auntie Emmy was the only female child of Arthur and Eliza.
Regards, Nick.
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I've emailed the folk at that address a copy of the photo. Hope we get a reply.
Jamjar
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Thank you very much, you're a star!
Just had a look on google street view unfortunately there is no camera view of the street yet.
Going to have a look on google earth now.
Regards, Nick.
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Already had a look at the Torquay house on Google Earth. Doesn't look right.
Hibee
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Pity. :'(
Were Eliza's parents, William and Mary? This is on the '61 census
Was she born in Stepney, or Leeds. I can only see these two on Free BDM.
Jamjar
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Did Arthur and Eliza have a son, Albert T?
Jamjar
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An address search of the 1911 census for Ormonde Cottage comes up with 5 possibles.
OC Chavey Down, Bracknell, Berkshire
OC Lostwithiel, Bodmin, Cornwall
OC Malvern Wells, Epton on Severn, Worcestershire
OC St Anne's Riad, Clacton on Sea
OC Worplesdon Road,Worplesdon, Guildford, Surrey.
If any look likely I will look at the record for you to see who lived there!
Cheryl
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Curiosity got the better of me.
I have private nessaged you the Malvern Wells entry... a Harry Wood lived at this Ormonde Cottage in 1911.
Hope it helps.
Cheryl
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Clutching at straws and a gut feeling
1891 RG12 Piece 2331 Folio 30 Page 2 we have Eliza Wood age 57 and harry Wood 18 grandson
1901 RG13 Piece 2784 Folio 13 page 17 we have Eliza Wood 67 and son william 23
1911 We have young Harry from the 1891 census with his family.
I do hope this is the righr Ormonde Cottage and the Wood family occupying it isn't just a quirk!
Cheryl
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To Jamjar - No sorry that is the wrong Eliza, she was born in Old malton North yorkshire, her father was simeon Stockdale b.1817 he died when she was 10. She lived in Malton/Norton area all her life. Same goes with my great grandad Arthur, he was born in Norton and died in Norton.
They never moved out of the area.
To Cheryl - Thanks for all your help Cheryl! hmm all I can think of for that info is that they were maybe distant relations. However, none of those names are related as far as I know, we know a lot about the Wood family as we have lived in the same area for generations and have many relatives.
The Eliza Wood you have listed must be a different Eliza I am afraid.
How do you do just a house name search on 1911 census? It keeps telling me to list names as well, even though I don't know who lived in it!!
Regards, Nick.
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Hi,
That Wood family just have to be "yours" in some shape or form. To have another Wood family in an Ormonde Cottage would be too spooky. Sorry if I have found another branch of the family for you to investigate.
To search the 1911 census by house name/ address open the 1911 census on the www.1911census.co.uk site and at the bottom of the "search the 1911 census" box click on search for a place. This opens a second box, click the place tab and where it says street.... type in the address or house name. You can ignore the other boxes if it's a fairly unusual name as was Ormonde Cottage.
I am researching Romany roots and this search will actually respond to the words "caravan" or "tent" !!
Hope this helps
Cheryl
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An address search of the 1911 census for Ormonde Cottage comes up with 5 possibles.
OC Chavey Down, Bracknell, Berkshire
OC Lostwithiel, Bodmin, Cornwall
OC Malvern Wells, Epton on Severn, Worcestershire
OC St Anne's Riad, Clacton on Sea
OC Worplesdon Road,Worplesdon, Guildford, Surrey.
Residents of the Lostwithiel Ormonde Cottage in 1887
http://www.cornwall-opc.org/Records/parishes/L-P/lostwithiel_burials.php
02-Sep, 1887, Ann, RULE, 70, "Ormonde Cottage, Lostwithiel", "Henry Collings, Vicar",
Milly
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hmmmm thanks for your help guys, this is so confusing!
I reckon that it will be more likely that a member of the Wood family was a servant in the house rather than being the owner, as they were a fairly working class family based in Norton/Malton.
Regards, Nick.
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Nick, don't wish to be rude but I can't see an Arthur & Eliza marriage or census entries but I can see John & Eliza...
Marriages Mar 1863
WOOD John Malton 9D 485
With a son Arthur on 1891...
RG12/3974/116 p11
I've found another Ormonde Cottage but not able to check out any details 'til I've know who i'm looking for exactly ;)
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Theres one in Southsea
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3ZNDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PP12&dq=ormonde+cottage#v=onepage&q=ormonde%20cottage&f=false
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That is correct John was married to Eliza. Arthur was my great grandad (one of their sons).
As I said, I doubt that the Wood family would be living in it. It is more likely that a wood family member was a servant there. I brought up Eliza because it was in her lifetime, however she wasn't in service by the looks of the census after she was married. The date of the photo looks around 1890 so I doubt it could have been taken when she was in service (1860's sort of time).
They only had one daughter Emily Wood, but she was never in service because she was disabled. So all I can think of is John or Elizas siblings maybe?
Regards, Nick.
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Not getting any further Nick but there's an Ormonde Cottage at Normanton on Trent (near Newark), about the nearest I've found to Yorks so far!
It's in postcode: NG23 6RQ
Good luck,
Paul
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hmm thanks for that paul that is a possibility, I guess if a family member was in service it wouldn't have to necessarily be near yorkshire, they may have travelled away?
I dont know how I'm ever going to find out for certain!
should be some sort of public house name search, I wish ;D hah
Thankyou dobsfarm as well for finding the one in southsea.
Regards, Nick.
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Two years on and I have yet to find where this godforsaken house is! Google street view has been a great help in looking up Ormonde cottage postcodes but still to no avail. Can anyone help??
Nick.
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Hi Nick, congratulations on your persistence!!
I love the way such a substantial house is called a cottage. ;D
And it is of course possible that it's been demolished in the time since the photo, and that's why you can't find it on Google.
One thing occurs to me, what about doing a detailed scan in closeup of the figure, to see if we can date it rather more closely - the photo restoration board dating experts are very good at this.
Is it a dog, standing next to the servant?
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Hi there, yeah it is a dog and either a nurse/servant? (still havnt verified that yet)
Nick.
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There doesn't appear to be anything behind the house, so could it be backing onto the sea or on a hill.
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I could well imagine that the house still stands somewhere but with a different name. I had a similar house quest and mine was Eveline Cottage. It was on the Isle of White and it is now The Rectory! I was very fortunate that someone on the IoW was able to help out, she was / is a worker in a local museum and the subject grabbed her interest especially as there were links with Osbourne House and good old Queen Victoria.
I looked up the meaning of the name Ormonde with the hopes that it might give us a clue, but apparently it is an old German variant of Armande. The meaning of Ormonde is 'army man'. I would hazard a guess that it would mean something to the original owner of the house or the person who had it built.
P
PS Where id your Gt Aunt live?....... where the photo was found.
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You mention Norton - are you sure that was the Yorkshire place and not the Norton that was in Derbyshire/Ecclesall Bierlow?
I ask because that Norton is now part of Sheffield and within the wider curtilage of Norton is an estate called Jordanthorpe. Jordanthorpe was built in the 1960s on farmland and the roads on the estate are named after the old farms that were once there; and several roads are called Ormond Rd/Drive/Close etc. So if there's any doubt over which Norton it was, this might be worth checking out.
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It is most definitely the Norton in yorkshire, near malton. I know this because I still live there :P . The photo was found here but she inherited most of the things from her parents so it may have come from them (parents also lived in Norton).
The change of name is what worries me because it could be literally anywhere in England so I cant really narrow it down to one location.
google street view is extremely handy for this though.
Nick.
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Perhaps a rethink on the method of research is needed.
"We are trying to work out whether the lady on the photo is a family member, but to do this we need to find out where the house is."
Perhaps researching all the family members as thoroughly as you can will reveal the house and it's whereabouts. I expect that there will be more info in the archives to be had researching it that way, rather than the other way round. I would imagine that the answer lies somewhere in the 1891 / 1901 and 1911 census somewhere. For the photo to have been kept in the family, I would expect that it is more than just a passing interest and quite probably of personal note, i.e one of the women folk from the family is indeed featured in the photograph.