RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: sandra bills on Friday 21 August 09 08:11 BST (UK)
-
I wonder if anyone can tell me where John Cockroft on the 1841 census of Ovenden was born.
I have him aged 80 farmer Wheatley. Does anyone know who his wife was and if there is a
connection with Hal Farm in Ovenden.
thanks in anticipatin.
Sandra
-
HI S/B
My best guess! (WHY ?- Well Illingworth gravestones and mount zion)
Somat to Tell Mum! John Born 1773 of John Cockroft Ovenden moor Illingworth church brother of James b1767 of John Cockroft St John Halifax ovenden moor
John was in Overden moor area Illingworth flats/moor 1800 age 26 by death age 76 in 1950 by his grave stone
1841c emnumeration route put John on Illingworth moor as well 1841
Buried 1850 again Illingworth moor at St Mary Church Illingworth flats
Sarah his wife Buried in the same grave 1851 but also on the census at Illingworth flats on 1851c as well (Barrack )
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
Yawn!
D/F
-
Hi Dave,
So it was Ann's child after all.
Interesting I have Christopher Smith age 26 wife
Mary 26 with chldren Hannah 1 and Emma 5 living at lower Hal in 1851. I can't trace these at all no births marraige or anything but think that Christopher is Ann's child.
Would wrap this up if we can get trace on 1841 census which I don't have.
Thanks,]
Sandra
-
HI S/B
I'll recheck at the library John Cockroft on the 1841 c Broad st and the Enumeration route of the census recorder but I'm most certian it was Illingworth area round Twyt common or Illingworth flats was his route.
Overden moor and Illingworth (Skippy Twyt flats) flats at the top of Wrigley Hill-are of one place really & this is the area between St Mary's church and Mount Zion Chapel also Illingworth Methodist Chapel in the middle. (All farming and cottage weaving then)
Overden village is much lower down the valley ( More town life to Halifax)
D/F
-
Hi Dave,
Would be grateful if you could look it up.
I am differing with you on John Cockroft being at Illignworth Moor area 1841 . I still think it might be Broad Street, Halifax but leaving open mind on that.
I have looked at all William Smith and wife Ann on 1851 to find only one that might fit, if they are still alive and that is
at Temperance Street district 11.
Hannah Smith 53 wife howarth
William Smith 55 m head warley
Harley Smith 9 son ov
Henry Smith 27 m head ov ?
Joseph Smith 23 un son Heptonstall .
They could be on the 1841 and Christopher might be with them, if they are the right ones.
-
Hi S/B
The Enumeration route of the census recorder!** will prove the area or District of Halifax for this John Cockroft of Broad St, than guessing the Broad st location in general Halifax area from maps past & present!
Hannah could be Ann as they changed it in adult life as a child she may have been little (F or N before it) Anny or little Annie (reason to change to Hannah)
-
Hi Dave,
There is a Nanny born 1826 to John Cockroft and Sally Midgley, hence good reason I suppose.
Worth a look anyway.
Sandra
Thanks again.
-
Like trying to find Adam Ant in an ants nest!
Big headache
-
Hi Dave.
Hope they don't bite too much.
Sandra
off to church now.
-
Hi Sandra,
Supplied by Bumble b (Friend of mine) on rootchat (
John Cockroftt 65 Weaver of Worsted
Saley 60
Ellen 20
William 30
Salley 20
Nanny 15
All at Broad Street, Ovenden HO107 1302/6 27
Enumeration District 20 - all that part of Ovenden comprising Scansby from Snowden Houses Woodhead Houses Needle Row Somerscales Charity, Lower Fold on by Popples Road as far as the Occupation Road at Nangman Lane top (or should that be Hangman?R
ed
Occupation road is at Illingworth flats common Twet (See Map I sent) (Now Twyt Common) Upper & Lower Hall- Barrack
Pharaoh/Place lane & Skippy Common lane
Regards Dave
-
Hi Dave,
I humbly apologise and bow to the master of genealogy.
Thanks again,
at least I know what district now.
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra
We know It all happend at Illingworth its self 1746 John Dad of John b 1773 -1800 Ann death-1850/51 death as gravestone with first wife Ann on as well as Sarah 2nd wife
Upper and Lower Hal-Barrack -Twet Farms. with Weaving cotts industry.
Wendy & you have done alot of research but just to advice you to keep on with 1841c- 1851c - also 1765-1801 to 1831 census CD with associated surnames Midgley-Smith-Riley-Hargreaves(Big in that area) Cockrofts.
Deeds at Wakefield, Wills, Bond marriages by licence if any also land tax -Window tax -Hearth tax-Poorlaw-Relief tax (local Rates) Mount Zion and Illingworth congregation and St Mary's church warden congregation(If any)-Sextons records
over time.
We have a foundation above that may alter!
But its a start
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
Thanks again,
Sandra
-
Foot note.
Sandra, the area or districts around Halifax are on this map!
http://www.halifaxhistory.org.uk/
You'll see why people get mixed up with parish registers the districts on them and actual places (Town or villages miles apart) Meaning on the Boundary lines can be either. example Illingworth and Ovenden also Northowram yet are as places miles apart.
click on the "click here" (Next to the word Bradford)near the bottom of the page in the link-Then a small map will appear- put your arrowed cursor on the map and click the small square block (that appears a few seconds later) for the largest view
-
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the map will be very useful. Wendy was asking about the old Ovenden boundary the other day will tell her about it as well.
I have told her to look on your replies anyway but she has been very ill since the flu and can;t do much at the moment.
Thanks again,
Sandra
-
Register of Deeds-head office of the West Yorkshire Archives office Wakefield
copies £8 a deed and £32 with plans per deed ( This charge is the same by post or
by person at their office- No photos are allowed)
The 1720 TO 1800 VOLUME DEEDS INDEX HAVE ONLY Thomas and William Cock(C)roft have
land deeds in Hebdenbidge and Halifax town centre and one for both at Warley
The 1800-1818 has
All Deeds John Cockroft (Weaver) cloth maker and manufacture & mention Upper Brigg Barrack
overden Mark Cockroft-Thomas Appleyard Joseph Cockroft John Sutcliffe and John Smith
John Cockroft Deeds Vol EX page 603 deed number 757 year 1806
John Cockroft Deeds Vol FP page 160 deed number 162 year 1811
John Cockroft Deeds Vol FQ page 211 deed number 270 year 1811
John Cockroft Deeds Vol GT page 342 deed number 330 year 1818
Will of John Senior died 1788 will date 1789
John Cockroft Deeds Vol DA page 179 Will number 180 year 1789
John Deceased is mention in above deeds
WYAS web site has all John Cockroft Apprentice indentures as master weaver of apprentices,
in the search Catalogue
Your John :-\ ['s] :-\ -God Knows! :-[
It Possible that the John death 1788 is Pre 1746 birth ( b1720 ish maybe) and the above John (Deceased) in the Deeds is a later death 1800's and son or John 1746 bapt and son John Bapt 1773 as no reference age or relation is given in these deeds.
-
HI Dave,
My you have been busy.
All we want is to win the pools I suppose, so to speak.
What does Upper Brigg Barrack mean, do you know? that one looks interesting.
thanks
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra,
The deciphering of these could take weeks as they write in a strange ye olde way but the side ref writing is easy readable. ie signed by and a very brief note of the deed.
John Smith is there. but is a very common name
Upper brigg barrack >
Is it Barrack farm and Upper Hal or near or a tolal different odd ball place.
This is roughly what my friend a top staff member said at WYAS
Quote "There is little doubt in my mind that John of Jonathan Cockroft b 1743 died as an infant and John b 1746 is their second child! named same as the first John. The 1749 John is to late for the 1766 marriage to Susan Riley, the 1767 marriage to Sarah Riley is to late for the 1766 James birth by his grave Stone age with John smith
John Cockroft signed is own name on the marriage register to Susan Riley and John Smith is in these Deeds also John Cockroft signed his own name on the deeds that look very similar to the marriage to Susan Riley 1766. Both grave headstones of James Cockroft , John Smith Mount zion and John Cockroft burial ST Mary both locations Illingworth 1850 indicate wealth as do these deeds." unquote
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
Going to get my John Cockroft lists out again and have another look. I was really confused over the two John's,one obviously now I know has died,makes it a bit clearer,but only the deeds by the looks of it will sort out who is who.
I am going to try to look at Alice Cockroft again theere are only two marriages to fit for her,that is if she married at all.
Going out fo rthe day to Christmas Dinner so chat later, Sandra
-
Hi, San & Wendy
SMITH IS A VERY COMMON NAME
This Info is so thin it could snap like a dry twig!
THINK HARD AND CHECK your sums before you think about buying any deed copies at that price,
Dave ??? ??? ??? ;)
CHRISTOPHER SMITH bap 10 JUN 1831/2 Guiseley, Yorkshire, England
Dad WILLIAM SMITH
Mum HANNAH
He could have been born 1827ish and bapt later 1832 after removed to Bradford industrial area for work or mill owner
4 years out but truth was stretched them days
Leeds/Bradford is mentioned in the deeds
-
The Rev. Anthony Moss became curate of Illingworth in 1779, two years after the church had been erected, and the very same year that the Halifax Piece Hall was built. Mr Moss was 30 years of age when he was appointed to the living, which he held for over half a century. It is also a remarkable fact that the sexton of that time occupied his office even for a longer period. His name was John Cockroft and he was appointed in 1775, "He died May 17th, 1832, aged 85 years. He was pew opener of this chapel 57 years".
= born 1747
http://justice101us.com/turner/Abraham.htm
-
David Halliday m. Mary Priestley in 1795. Their daughter Sarah Halliday m. James Smith Cockroft and had children Charles, Martha, David, Amelia, Fred, Edwin, Frank. Charles and David emigrated to the US in about 1860 - I am seeking descendents of those siblings remaining in UK and any information about these families. Thank you! Tina
http://www.curiousfox.com/history/westridingyorkshire_81.html
-
Hi Dave,
Think I have been in touch with that lady over the James Smith Cockroft. She asked me if he was a brother back then but couldn't give an answer for definite.
Will have to get back in touch and compare.
My father took me to the Piece Hall and I have photos he took back in the late 1940's when it was still in disrepair, ie windows broken etc.
How I wish I could remember all he told me about the place etc. He probably told me about his ancestors then but I didn't take it in. I was more interested in architecture at the time. I still love it now.
Thanks for info on Christopher Smith. will see what comes up with that as well.
Sandra
-
The Rev. Anthony Moss became curate of Illingworth in 1779, two years after the church had been erected, and the very same year that the Halifax Piece Hall was built. Mr Moss was 30 years of age when he was appointed to the living, which he held for over half a century. It is also a remarkable fact that the sexton of that time occupied his office even for a longer period. His name was John Cockroft and he was appointed in 1775, "He died May 17th, 1832, aged 85 years. He was pew opener of this chapel 57 years".
= born 1747
http://justice101us.com/turner/Abraham.htm
Hi Sandra.
Don't think the penny has dropped! or significance of this.?
First of all this web page above gives details of the church notes taken (at the time) at various times at St Marys Church over the centuries! a gold mine In itself. However! more important is the fact that there was only one John Cockroft that remained at Illingworth St Marys church as part of the congregation! this John in the Notes was born 1746 /47 aged 85 at death in May 1832.
(Dates fit Exactly)
That this John Cockroft of Jonathan Bapt 1746 one of the Same father of John Cockroft b 1773 Illingworth St Mary's Church records (Not St John Halifax) where he was the pew opener(part time Sexton and farmer/home cottage weaver Upper Hal). for 57 years at St Mary's about 500 yards from Pharaoh place that have descendants still living there! Both Father (John 1832 age 85) and Son ( son John died 1850 aged 76) are buried in ST Marys grave Yard
Dave
-
Hi, San & Wendy
SMITH IS A VERY COMMON NAME
This Info is so thin it could snap like a dry twig!
THINK HARD AND CHECK your sums before you think about buying any deed copies at that price,
Dave ??? ??? ??? ;)
CHRISTOPHER SMITH bap 10 JUN 1831/2 Guiseley, Yorkshire, England
Dad WILLIAM SMITH
Mum HANNAH
He could have been born 1827ish and bapt later 1832 after removed to Bradford industrial area for work or mill owner
4 years out but truth was stretched them days
Leeds/Bradford is mentioned in the deeds
AN EXAMPLE :o
http://www.calmview.eu/WY/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=NaviTree.tcl&dsqField=RefNo&dsqItem=CC00002/2/3/5/1/2/3/8&dsqSearch=((text)='illingworth%20parish')#HERE
http://www.calmview.eu/WY/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=0&dsqSearch=((text)='illingworth%20parish')
HAS:73 (236)/8 Extent help 1 item Title help Settlement certificate Date help 17 May 1703 Description help Henry Nicholson, Horsforth, parish of Guiseley, to Illingworth, parish of Ovenden
-
-
Check out the Parish Link! WYAS in line with Parish notes on the Church website ie John Cockroft Pew opener
-
Hi Dave,
I have felt for a long time that John Cockroft 1747 Illingworth Church sextant is the father of our John 1773. I have read the notes over and over, and didn't want to jump to any conclusions and I agree with you.
I am confused however. Is John Cockroft 1747 sextant the same as Jonathan
Cockroft?
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra
John is Not Jonathan
but his father was
John died 1832 aged 85 and say 11 month + 86 nearly
JOHN COCKCROFT
Birth:
Christening: 12 FEB 1746 Illingworth, Yorkshire, England
Death:
Burial:
Father: JONATHON COCKCROFT
-
It Seems John Cockroft b 1773 Died 1850 age 76 in illingworth Halifax 2nd wife Sarah Midgley marriage 1806 Halifax
was a labourer.
-
Hi Dave,
Thanks for clarifying everything. You've done a grand job.
Thanks again,
]Sandra
-
Hi Sandra,
In Brief:- How I see it!
Labourer helping other farmers at busy times!
I think ! John b 1773 and Sarah (Midgley) Cockroft rented or owned a small holding cottage with about about 4 to 6 acers of land 1806 around upper/lower Hal/ Twet or Barrack farms
Sally did the farming and John did a bit of general work and both or the family as a whole did home weaving!
His Dad John b 1746 was a full time or partime Sexton and general church assistant or warden. Then his (Susan Riley m 1766) wife did the same as Sally/Sarah running a small holding and home weaving as and when.
-
The full book on Illingworth people
http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/TRANSCRIPTIONS-UK/2001-05/0989678594
http://blunham.com/Tana/wryfiles/private/hxb1666.txt
-
I really found this thread interesting - I have been chasing after a John Cockcroft for years now. He was the father of Hannah Cockcroft who married Timothy Calvert in 1796 - both Hannah and Timothy were described as minors (she was 16) , and required permission from their fathers to marry. That was the first info I had on Hannah Cockcroft's parentage. John Cockcroft is described as "of Wadsworth" and was alive in 1796 at the time of his daughter's marriage.
I really dont know anything else about him. There is one baptism of a Hannah Cockcroft dau. of John & Mary Cockcroft at Todmorden in 1780 (from the IGI) - the date fits but Todmorden is not exactly Wadsworth.
Any thoughts on how my John C. might fit into this great whirlwind of John Cockcrofts that you have about you??
Many many thanks
Kevin Bowers
Canada
-
Hi Kevin
CAn you get your e mail t o me via modulator as I think we may have some connection re John Cockroft ,Wadsworth. Will have to dig further but will need more contact to be sure.
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra
I'm new to this board, and do not know how to go about getting an email to you via the Moderator. Are you on Genes Reunited? I am there under my own name (Kevin Bowers). I really do not know anything else about the Cockcrofts, except there are far too many of them in that area! I found an early Cockcroft dating from around 1325 in Wadworth, so they have been in the area for some time.
There are a few children of a John Cockcroft in the Heptonstall parish reg, and the dates tie in with the Hannah I think could be the right one which appears in the todmorden register in 1780. I suppose he could have bap one of the children in Todmorden and the others in Heptonstall. Stranger things have happened.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Cheers
Kevin
-
Hello Kevin
Welcome to Rootschat
Top Left on Sandras post above ::) (like mine Dobfarm)
Click on Sanrda Bills on the blue writing Sandra Bil ls above the black cross shield under the four yellow stars
A profile page of Sandra will come up
about 3/4 down the page you will see some blue writing that says 'send a peasonal message to this poster' click on this
A buff coloured page with a white box to write in.
Put your email address and any note to Sandra in the white box
then click send
-
John Cockroft
bapt 24 MAR 1694 Heptonstall, Yorkshire, England
Father WILLIAM COCKCROFT
Burial Age 70 1760 St Mary Todmorden
Marraige JOHN COCKCROFT x ANNE HEY St Mary Todmorden
14 SEP 1725
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
28-Dec 1725 William of John & Ann Todmorden weaver St. Marys
Marriage1748 27-Dec William Jane Dearden MARRIAGES FOR
THE SURNAME COCKROFT AT ST. MARY'S TODMORDEN
................................................................................
26-Oct 1751 John of William Cockroft of Hades St. Marys Todmorden
John Cockroft X Mary Uttley Married 5 APR 1768 Heptonstall,
Parish of Bride at a wedding is NOT always the parish Birth
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Halifax to Hebdenbridge and on to Todmorden is in a steep valley following the big river calder up this valley there would be only cart tracks to the moorland farms that are little different only a bit of tarmac on them now. Thus movement was linear in this valley bottom making it ab long community trapped between Halifax - Hebden bridge and Todmorden.
12-Dec 1780 Hannah of John & Mary Cockroft Langfield no fathers occupation given St. Marys
Langfield Farm, Mankinholes, Todmorden, Lancashire
Plus Langfield area
High on the moors above by road Charlestown nr a place
called Heptonstall and Wadsworth (Hebben bridge)-Todmorden is the other way by crow fly but not a direct road access to this isolated place
http://todmordenandwalsden.co.uk/
-
There are 2 William Cockrofts or Cockcrofts one bapt 1665 and another bapt 1675 and from Heptonstall
Which one
Hav't a clue ???
-
Wow - what alot of information!!! I've printed this out and will have a good look at it and digest! Thank you so much!
I was at the Library yesterday, and quite by chance they have a microfilm copy of the Heptonstall Bishop's Transcripts. I looked at the baptism of John, son of John Cockcroft on 5 May 1771, and after JC's name was written what looked like "Err Web". This of course baffled me until I looked at other entries, and realized that this meant of Erringden, Webster (I think a webster is the same as a weaver).
At Luddenden there are 4 entries for children of John Cockcroft: Wm bap 1772, Margaret bap 1775, Elizabeth bap 1778 and Mary bap 1782. The John mentioned above fits in quite nicely here, as does Hannah from the Todmordon register who was bap in 1780 (and that bap mentions mothers' name: Mary).
Now, I know that "fits in nicely" doesnt always lead to truthbut rather to a good conjecture, but I am thinking that if this all "fits in nicely" with the John C & Mary Uttley marriage in 1768. As far as my Hannah Cockcroft is concerned, her 18 yr old groom Timothy Calvert lived at Midgley, and at the time of the marriage Hannah is living at Wadworth. I really need to check a map here, but this seems to be not entirely out of the question.
Thank you again for such a quick response - both you and Sandra are my new heroes!
Kevin
-
Hi Kevin,
Dave did all the work, not me,
Sandra
-
Hi All
Forgot to say the above info only poss! but need checking out at Wakefield in the Original registers. Though the change from Ann to Hannah or visa versa in adulthood is not unusual mostly they keeped their original Bapt Name
Thus there could be another bapt Ann of John Cockroft out there! 1780 +/- I year as to birth month. Ie Bapt Nov/ Dec 1779 to 1781 Jan/Feb and month of marriage 1806 was she nearer 15 or 17- maybe a few white untruths and thats very common if she was bapt 1784 aged 12/13 legal to marry then for girls.
-
Thats very true - I always keep an open mind when looking in the past like this. There are no hard and fast rules! Even the naming patterns of children can sometime be thrown right out the window.
What do you think of my /Heptonstall/Todmorden/Luddenden theory? Do you think thats just too much travelling for one chap when it comes to baptisms? The dates all fit in (although I would have liked to have seen another child bap in 1769).
A very cold afternoon in Canada,
Kevin
-
Hi Kev,
Its early days for Roots chat members as more poster may join, Your view on the bro and sis of Hannah and dates in a run down from a marriage of this Hannah b 1780 of John and Mary that may point tp John and Marys marriage looks interesting.
A few pointers
A) As family names being past down that could be true but in comparison to other families doing the same thing all using the very common mane have little value if none as proof.
B) Halifax St John Church Halifax has not been transcribed or translated pre 1812 only one in the 1500's-Bishops Transcription's have been by the LDS but the original registers of both BT and church are in a right old state of affairs and Lds do not have all events in the BT, and the Bt was copied from the church register ever 6 month or so also error were made in transcribing of. (Missing entries)
Hebdenbridge or Todmorden bapt entries could be a sickley private baptism at home by the vicar available and he enter it at his Church. Also there was a tax just start around 1780 on bapts those days and in the confusion any church ( Read up on this Tax)
My gut feeling is your Ann Cock(C)roft was Bapt 1784
Dobby
-
The other thing to consider is that I have not been able to find out much about the Calvert family she married into - I suspect they were Non-Conformist, as many of the Calverts are buried at Booth Independent. Hannah Calvert (formerly Cockcroft)'s gravestone reads: Died 1 March 1817 age 36. Perhaps she was also non-conformist. Do you know if there are non-conformist records in that area that are not on the IGI? I think there is a good chance that everything I am looking for is simply hidden away in a Non-Conformist register which has yet to be made available.
From a cold (and now a dark) Canada
Kevin
-
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
you need to register
then enter name and event
unlike IGI you need exact the name EG Hannah -Ann-Annie -Anna -Anny--Nanny-Fanny & Hanny etc all with Cockroft then again with Cockcroft also other surnames
on the list that comes up if one fits click on the RG number
log in and it will give you the chapel
If you want full info then it will cost about rough figure- Canada $5 to find out.
All non conformist registers are at Kew London
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=429753.new;topicseen#new
-
Thank you for all your suggestions - enjoying the hunt and the intrigue,
and hopefully down the road there will be a payoff!
-
I'm am pulling out of Rootschat look ups for the the time being to concentrate full time on The Cockcroft's-Midgleys-Smith's and Hargreaves for Sandra Bills- Libby9 foremost and Charlotte CH/Maggie and Kevin Bowers this spring/Summer also my own ancestry.
Carters for Yorkshire Lad.
Dobfarm