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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: valsul on Thursday 20 August 09 16:35 BST (UK)
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Can you help with the 1871 Census for any of these people?
WILLIAM HENRY UNDERHILL WILLOUGHBY was born on 1825 in Chatham, Kent, died 1899 in Lewisham, London, England. He married Mary A Pearse Pierce Pearce 1843 Clapham, Surrey, England, daughter of Frederick Pearce Pierce and Anna Turtle. She was born on 1819 in Clapham, Surrey, England
Children
ii. Joseph Underhill Willoughby, B: 1846 in Christchurch, Surrey, England
iii. John Underhill Willoughby, B: 1848 in Chatham, Kent, England
iv. Emillie Underhill Willoughby, B: 1850 in Chatham, Kent, England
v. Rebecca Underhill Willoughby, B: 1855 in Chatham, Kent, England
vi. Frederick Stephen Underhill Willoughby, B: 1856 in Chatham, Kent,
vii Edward Daniel Underhill, B: 1860 in St Margaret, Kent, England
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
I notice the 1899 death reg just shows him as William Henry Willoughby
The only 1881 census I can find for his profile does not match the children you list or his wife
In 1851 - William is not with his family but Mary Ann is shown as married
In 1861 - Mary Ann is shown as a widow
I think the 1899 death you found is that of another illiam H Willoughby who is on the 1881 census with wife Emma
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Thankyou. I do have him married to an Emma. Could this be a second marriage?
If so what happened to his first wife. This is a very messy family, with the Underhill and Willoughby names interchanged at ALL TIMES. This is why I cant track them and believe me I have been researching for YEARS. I just need another persons input
Val
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Do you have a copy of his 1843 marriage cert? What was his occupation at that time?
The 1881 William Willoughby was shown as single in 1851 and was in lodgings in Billericay Essex. His occupation was a sergeant in the marines
Cannot find him in 1861
In 1871 he is shown as a naval pensioner and married to Emma with 3 children
In 1881 he is shown as Greewich Pensioner Yeoman Royal Body Guard
No logical marriage to an Emma that ties in with their eldest child's birth 1865/66
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Edward Daniel Underhill Willoughby Christening 23 Oct 1859
Rochester Kent
Father William Henry Willoughby
Mother Mary Ann
WILLIAM HENRY WILLOUGHBY Spouse MARY ANN PEARCE Marriage 15 AUG 1843 Holy Trinity Clapham, Surrey
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They also had a daughter b 1844
Mary Ann Willoughby Christening: 25 AUG 1844 Saint Margaret Rochester Kent, Father William Henry Willoughby Mother Mary Ann
Daughters Emily and Rebecca were both christened on 27.8.1856 at the above church according to the IGI extracted records
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Hello Valsul and welcome to RootsChat :)
Hi Carol :)
This looks like it might be the family in 1871...
Kent St Margaret Rochester 13 p.14
James Underhill, Head, Mar, 76, Fisherman, b. Kent Alesford
Joseph, Son, Unm, 24, Engine Driver at Engine Factory, b. Kent Chatham
John, Son, Unm, 22, Fisherman, b. ditto
Frederick, Son, Unm, 15, Fisherman, b. ditto
Edward, Son, Unm, 12, Scholar, b. ditto
John Pearce, Brother in Law, 34, Painter, b. Surrey Clapham
Rebecca Birch, Sister, 67, b. Kent Strood
No sign of Mary Ann so far.
James Underhill and Mary Ann Willoughby are in the same household as John Pearce in the 1861 Census.
Polarbear :)
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Hmmmmm, see what you mean .............
The father of Edward Daniel Underhill WILLOUGHBY baptised 1859 Rochester is William Henry WILLOUGHBY a sgt in the Marines http://www.rootschat.com/links/06xl/
Casalguidi :)
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So that puts the cat amongst the pigeons!!
I can see only one way forward here - a copy of one of the birth certs from the second "marriage" to find Emma's maiden name
1881 census for Deptford St Paul
William H. Willoughby 56 b Chatham
Emma 49 b Surrey
Harry W 15 b Kennington Surrey
Louisa A 13 ditto
Herbert F 11 ditto
Charles E 7 b Brockley Kent
Emily F 4 ditto
RG11 Piece 715 Folio 36 Page 12
Births March qtr 1870
Herbert Frank Willoughby Lambeth 1d 454
HERBERT FRANK WILLOUGHBY Birth 7 FEB 1870
Christening 1 MAY 1870 Saint Dunstan Stepney
Father WILLIAM HENRY WILLOUGHBY Mother EMMA
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1891 census for Lewisham
William H Willoughby 67 yeomen of the guard b Chatham
Emma 60 b Bow Middlesex - see below
Louisa W 23 b Kennington
Herbert H 21 ditto
Charles E 17 b Brockley Kent
Emily F 14 ditto
RG12 Piece 526 Folio 133 Page 31
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William Henry was a corporal in the marines at the 1844 christening of Mary Ann.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06xs/
Ian C
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Dear Ian,
Thankyou so much. At least I can verify, my findings with your and Carole's, but I have more... There is still mystery. I will gather up my findings plus evidence and present it to your learned eyes.. This family is still haunting me and I hope that you will be interested enough to assist me
Val S
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Hi
I can see only one way forward here - a copy of one of the birth certs from the second "marriage" to find Emma's maiden name
Do you already have any birth cert from the children of the second "marriage"
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This family is still haunting me and I hope that you will be interested enough to assist me
Yes we're all interested ;D
Casalguidi :)
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Back again... I have had to stray to Victoria Australia, but there is still plenty to sleuth back in England. This is CONFIRMED so I thought I would send you this info
These are FREDERICK STEPHEN UNDERHILL WILLOUGHBY’S details
He migrated to Victoria Australia 1877 and his wife and two daughters followed in 1878
Note the change in the SURNAME and the difference in parents names on the death certificate of Fred and Joseph
Digger - Immigration to Victoria 1852-79
Surname: WILLOUGHBY
Given Names: FRED (erick)
Ship: KENT
Month: JUL
Year: 1877
Age: 22
Code: B
Fiche: 352
Page: 002
England & Wales, Free BMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Record Fredrick UNDERHILL
Name: Fredrick UNDERHILL
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Medway (1837-1941)
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Digger - Death Index. Victoria 1921-1985 Mc Beth Publications ( Ref. Registry of Births, Death and Marriages, Melbourne)
Surname: WILLOUGHBY
Given Names: Fredk Stephen
Father: Willoughby JOSHUA
Mother: Mary Ann UNKNOWN
Death Place: PRN (Princes Hill, near Melbourne)
Age: 85
Age Code:
Year: 1939
Reg Number: 2504
Event: D
Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcriber
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England & Wales, Free BMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Marriages Jun 1874
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WILLOUGHBY Fredrick Mitford 4b 485 DJMARSHALL
Joseph Underhill Willoughby
Aka Joseph Willingham 1851 England Census
These are his brother’s details. He migrated on the “THOMAS STEPHENS" to Melbourne Victoria with his wife CAROLINE ANN HOBART.
Note the difference in the Death Details pertaining to his parents.
Digger - Death Index. Victoria 1921-1985 Mc Beth Publications ( Ref. Registry of Births, Death and Marriages, Melbourne)
Surname: WILLOUGHBY
Given Names: Joseph
Father: Willoughby Joseph
Mother: Mary Ann BIRCH
Death Place: BWK
Age: 82
Age Code:
Year: 1928
Reg Number: 597
Event: D
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Frederick's marriage where he gives his father as Joseph UNDERHILL
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06xz/
So, was Joseph UNDERHILL the father with Mary still using the fact that she was married to Mr WILLOUGHBY thus naming him as the father at the baptisms of her children or did they belong to Mr WILLOUGHBY and Joseph UNDERHILL was their step father .............. interesting!
I know we have found baptisms for some of the children above but it might be a good idea to check out baptism (and any other events) in the online parish registers for all the children to see what is listed
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06xz/
Casalguidi :)
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So here we have it... What do you think?
Facts
1. 1831 James or Joseph Underhill born 1795 married Rachael King
2. 1843 William H Willoughby married Mary Anne Pearse Pierce Pearce 15 Aug Holy Trinity, Clapham, Surrey, England
3. Sept 1844 A daughter Mary Ann Willoughby born to William H Willoughby and Mary Anne Pearse Pierce Pearce above Rochester, Kent, England
4. 1846 Joseph Underhill Willoughby born Christchurch, Surrey, England ( parents ambiguous)
5. 1848 John Underhill Willoughby born Chatham, Kent, England ( parents ambiguous)
6. 1850 Emillie Underhill Willoughby born Chatham, Kent, England ( parents ambiguous)
7. 1851 William Henry Willoughby states that he is single whilst in Essex.
8. 1851 Rachael Underhill ( King ) Housekeeper in St Margaret Kent, but not living with her husband
9. 1854 Frederick Stephen Underhill Willoughby born Chatham, Kent, England ( parents ambiguous)
10. 1855 Rebecca Underhill Willoughby born Chatham, Kent, England ( parents ambiguous)
11. 1859 Edward Daniel Underhill Willoughby born, St Margaret, Kent, England ( parents ambiguous)
12. 1861 Mary Ann states that she is a widow, whilst in same boarding house as Joseph or James Underhill
13. 1866 Rachael Underhill dies St Margaret Kent
14. 1867 Emillie Underhill Willoughby 1st marriage to Robert Soutter
15. 1870 Joseph Underhill Willoughby and Caroline Ann Hobart marriage
16. 1871 James or Joseph Underhill resides with “family” Joseph Underhill, John Underhill, Frederick Underhill and Edward Underhill. Mary Anne (wife) and her two daughters are elsewhere. His brother in law John Pearce and his widowed sister Rebecca Birch also reside.
17. 1872 Caroline Ann Hobart (Underhill) Willoughby servant at Denmark Arms, No 1 Albert Road, St. Margaret's, Rochester, Kent
18. 1872 Joseph Underhill Willoughby and Caroline Ann Hobart on "Thomas Stephens" to Melbourne Victoria
19. 1872 Emillie Underhill Willoughby 2nd marriage to Charles Agnew Turner
20. 1872 Rebecca Underhill Willoughby marriage to Algernon Payan Percy
21. 1873 John Underhill Willoughby marriage to Emma Smith
22. 1874 Frederick Stephen Underhill Willoughby marriage to Maria Matilda South
1875 Rebecca Percy Underhill Willoughby birth
23. 1883 Emillie Underhill Willoughby 3rd marriage to George Edward Hare
24. 1884 James or Joseph Underhill death Rochester St Margaret, Kent, England
Still there are many questions .. There is one piece of important information that links part of this family
1891 Emily Hare ( Underhill Willoughby) is living in 14 Fulham Park Gardens, Fulham, London with her son Richard Soutter from her 1st marriage, Stepsister Mary Ann Willoughby and Millie Willoughby niece. Mary Ann Willoughby is deaf. She is a step sister? Who is Millie Willoughby?
Born 1880 Fulham, Middlesex?
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1891 - 14 Fulham Park, Fulham, London
Emily HARE head wid 32? b.Rochester Kent
Richard SOUTER son 19 b.Mortlake
Mary A WILLOUGHBY step sister unm 46 b.Rochester Kent
Millie niece unm 11 b.Fulham
RG12/54 folio 80 page 12
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If all the children have UNDERHILL as a second name except Mary A (the first born) plus she is described as a step sister then that would suggest to me that they are all (except Mary A) quite likely the children of Joseph UNDERHILL.
1901 - & Ifield Road, Kensington, London
Mary A WILLOUGHBY head wid 55 needlewoman b.Rochester Kent
Emily R dau 21 housemaid b.Kensington
RG13/36 folio 192 page 66
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Millie in 1891 = Emily R in 1901 ???
Have you found Mary A WILLOUGHBY (b1844 Rochester) in the 1881 census ???
Casalguidi :)
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Baptisms of Emily, Rebecca and Frederick on same day at St Margaret's, Rochester. Father William Henry, sergeant of marines.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06y3/
Ian C
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I have have noted the baptisms on the same day, but did not really take notice as some children were "bulk" baptised. Maybe three for the price of one?
Val
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Well this is a bit of a mystery. Who is Mary Willoughby 1901 needlewoman ?
and more importantly who is her husband? I have matched Joseph and Frederick with spouses. I thought Edward Underhill married a Isabel Pearson Atchison in 1881 Kent. This is a STUMBLING BLOCK..
Stressed out now
Val
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I was thinking that perhaps Mary A (needlewoman) in 1901 could be the sister (same woman as in 1891 staying with Emily HARE) and that saying she was widowed was perhaps more convenient than saying she was a single mum if she hadn't actually been married.
Have you found her (the sister Mary Ann that is) in the 1881 census and/or an alternative in the 1901 census?
Casalguidi :)
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Would any kind person be able to find these certificates for me?
1870 Marriage Joseph Underhill Willoughby and Caroline Ann Hobart
1872 2nd Marriage Emillie Underhill Willoughby to Charles Agnew Turner
1872 Marriage Rebecca Underhill Willoughby to Algernon Payan Percy
1873 Marriage John Underhill Willoughby to Emma Smith
1875 BIRTH Rebecca Percy Underhill Willoughby
1883 3RD Marriage Emillie Underhill Willoughby to George Edward Hare
Thanks ValSull
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Baptisms of Emily, Rebecca and Frederick on same day at St Margaret's, Rochester. Father William Henry, sergeant of marines.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06y3/
Ian C
Thanks ValSull
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
I notice the 1899 death reg just shows him as William Henry Willoughby
The only 1881 census I can find for his profile does not match the children you list or his wife
In 1851 - William is not with his family but Mary Ann is shown as married
In 1861 - Mary Ann is shown as a widow
I think the 1899 death you found is that of another William H Willoughby who is on the 1881 census with wife Emma
I wonder if he "died" or rather remarried.. Is a Yeoman of the Guard a Mariner or with a Mariner's background? If you could get his death certificate for me then there might be some info regarding his marriages and children :D
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Hi valsul :)
You can search for the certificates yourself at freebmd.....see link below.
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
This index is free to use. Good hunting :)
Polarbear
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Yes, once you have the references you need to purchase the certificates. They are £7 each and can be ordered online http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
The exceptions being the marriages which were in the Medway and North Ayelsford registration districts and which may be in the onine parish registers (1873 Emma SMITH and 1870 Caroline HOBART) http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
You may also find the baptism of Rebecca in the online parish registers.
Have you actually looked for them?
Casalguidi :)
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24 Sep 1872 St Mark, Regent's Park, London
Charles Agnew TURNER ofa ba gentleman of Curzon Street, Mayfair (Henry Blois TURNER general Royal Engineers)
Emillie Underhill WILLOUGHBY minor sp of 38 Gloucester Crescent (William Henry Underhill WILLOUGHBY gentleman)
Wit: Rebecca PERCY & Walter Spottiswoode? O......?
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1 Sep 1872 St Marylebone
Algernon Payan PERCY ofa ba gentleman of St Marylebone (Henry PERCY clerk in Holy Orders)
Rebecca Underhill WILLOUGHBY minor sp of St Margaret Rochester Kent (William Henry WILLOUGHBY gentleman)
Wit: W J RICHARDSON & Emily U WILLOUGHBY
Casalguidi :)
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I am in a spin. Does this mean that William Henry Willoughby was present or alive at the marriage of his daughters?..... Now I dont know where I am
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Hi there
Ive only just joined, and can see your post was over 2 years ago, so hope you are still researching...
I am the great grand daughter of Edward Daniel Underhill, without the Willoughby and was so excited to see your post and the replies.
I agree that there is a lot of confusion about William Willoughby and Joseph Underhill, and who was the father of which children. Ive been in touch with a lady in Aus, from the branch that you tracked as emigrating there and she 's a Willoughby. would love to chat further and see how we must be related!
Kim
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Hi
I am researching for a friend. Very confusing tree, but enjoyable all the same. Are you a member of Ancestry.com? If so I can make the Willoughby Tree available for you
Val Sparnaay
Eltham, Victoria
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Hi
We spoke some time ago re the Underhill Willoughby Family and you said that you were related to Edward Daniel Underhill (Willoughby) Can you tell me of the family? I wonder why his two brothers retained the Willougby and Edward did not?
Here is some more info
Joseph Underhill Willoughby
Birth 27 Feb 1846 in Southwark, Middlesex, England
Death 1928 in Brunswick, Victoria, Australia
Fredrick Stephen Underhill Willoughby
Birth Sep 1856 in High Street, Chatham, Kent, England
Death 1939 in Princes Hill, Victoria, Australia
It had made and is still making researching difficult... I look at it from time to time
Cheers Val Sparnaay, Eltham, Vic, Australia
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Hello
I am still chasing the Underhill- Willoughby's. You say that you have a contact in Australia, well I live in Eltham, Victoria, Australia. You can contact me at (*)
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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.