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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: jean Sandra on Wednesday 19 August 09 10:53 BST (UK)

Title: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: jean Sandra on Wednesday 19 August 09 10:53 BST (UK)
Could anyone possibly help?
I am wondering how to trace church records for the family of Ellen Lindsay born 14 Donnybrook Dublin 1883/84. Her parents were William and Ellen Lindsay. William was born 1853/54 in Dublin city.
Was there a church in Donnybrook? If so do they hold their records? Are there any transcripts anywhere?
I would be very grateful if someone could lead me in the right direction.
Regards
Jean Sandra
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 19 August 09 11:03 BST (UK)
Donnybrook (St. Mary's Church of the Sacred Heart,) RC church was built in the 1860s and still present :

see: http://ireland.archiseek.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/donnybrook/church.html

Records for this parish are available on microfilm at the national library on microfilm P.9309. 

 Baptisms April 1871 – Feb 1902
 Marriages  Jan. 1877 – Nov. 1905

There are no Donnybrook parish records available online at the moment that I know of.

Since the marriage of William and Ellen and  birth for Ellen is presumably after Civil registration started in 1864 they should have been included. There is an index to the Irish BMDs at this familysearch link : http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;t=searchable;c=1408347

Certs can be ordered from the GRO using the Index details - www.groireland.ie



Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: jean Sandra on Thursday 20 August 09 08:09 BST (UK)
Thank you so much Shaun.
Do you know if the original records are kept at the church?
Regards
Jean Sandra
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: jean Sandra on Thursday 20 August 09 08:37 BST (UK)
I followed your advice and found William Lindsay married  July-Sept 1878 in Dublin South and Ellen Bryan married same quarter in same volume and on same page!
Wow!!
Regards
Jean Sandra
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 20 August 09 08:45 BST (UK)
sorry - I dont know if the church holds any historic registers or is in a position to do any research. The full address if you want to try writing to them is :

 Church of the Sacred Heart,
 Donnybrook
 Dublin 4



Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: jean Sandra on Thursday 20 August 09 08:54 BST (UK)
Thanks again Shaun.
Is The church of the Sacred Heart and Donnybrook St Mary's the same church?
Jean Sandra
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 20 August 09 09:05 BST (UK)
St. Mary's is Church of Ireland

(just realized my typo earlier ... will edit)


Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Thursday 20 August 09 22:21 BST (UK)

Records for this parish are available on microfilm at the national library on microfilm P.9309. 

 Baptisms April 1871 – Feb 1902
 Marriages  Jan. 1877 – Nov. 1905


Hi Shane,

Just a quick clarification. Does this microfilm refer to St. Mary's CoI or to Church of the Sacred Heart RC?

One of my relatives in Donnybrook was CoI but married in the RC church so I will need to look up both sets of records. If you know both microfilm references in the National Library it would be very helpful.

Dara.
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 21 August 09 09:01 BST (UK)
hi Dara..

I've checked this again, and hope I've got this correct!

the NLI index of Catholic Microfilms includes the following listing :

St. Mary’s, Donnybrook                                film : P.9309
    Baptisms April 15, 1871 – Feb. 24, 1902
    Marriages Jan. 21, 1877 – Nov. 19, 1905

which is where my earlier 'typo' came from - most of the film captions are RC Parishes but some include an actual church ..e.g. St. Andrews, Westland row. As far as I can see most of Donnybrook is in the civil parish of St. Mary's - so presumably the RC parish covers roughly the same area..



Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: Oaks and Acorns on Friday 21 August 09 22:03 BST (UK)
Shane,

I think I may have found the answer to my confusion here: http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/shortpar/shortpar6.htm

The original RC church was named St. Mary's and the new church started in 1864 was the Church of the Sacred Heart.

Dara.
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: jean Sandra on Saturday 22 August 09 08:05 BST (UK)
Do you know if there are parish records for the old St Mary's dating back to the early 1800s or even earlier?
Jean Sandra
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 22 August 09 12:49 BST (UK)
there's an old graveyard beside the Garda Station (police) on Donnybrook main street, which seems be the one mentioned in Dara's post and probably where the old church of St. Broc/St. Mary's parish was located pre 1870. There's no mention of any surviving records from this timeframe on the NLI RC record index - under Donnybrook, St. Mary's or St. Broc's



Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: helkar on Friday 04 September 09 22:32 BST (UK)
Joining in regarding records of Donnybrook etc.
My ancestor was registered in Donnybrook, living Irishtown Road  born  1875.  I have been trying to find a possible church for the parents marriage.
Child born Sept. 1875. possible marriage 73-75 - religion R.C. what church would they use. St. Mary's  marriages start 1877.
Any help would be appreciated.
helkar
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: eadaoin on Friday 11 September 09 21:44 BST (UK)
helkar

There's a church in Ringsend - not sure when built - became a parish in 1905.

Sandymount (Star of the Sea) is the likeliest church to look - constituted 1851 according to the Diocesan Directory.

I think Grenham says records start in 1865.

if you have the civil cert, it should mention the Church

eadaoin
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: Quaxer on Friday 11 September 09 23:56 BST (UK)
Danny Parkinson in his booklet "Donnybrook Graveyard" in Chap.7dates the old St. Mary's R.C. Church beside the old Graveyard and Garda Station from 1787. It appears to have been one church within the parish of Irishtown. It is quite possible that the original records were kept at Irishtown (as the mother church)and to that I think would be my first port of call.


Quaxer.
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: Beach on Saturday 12 September 09 21:02 BST (UK)
My ggranparents were married in 1870 in St.Marys, Star of the Sea, Sandymount.  You have to approach the church direct as these records are not in the National Library in Kildare Street.  My gggrandparents (who lived in the same area) were married in 1853 in St. Marys, Haddington Road, Dublin 4.  (The parish records for this church are available in the National Library and they go back to 1800)  I think Haddington Road was the Roman Catholic church for Donnybrook, Ballsbridge and surrounding areas in the early 1800's.
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: helkar on Saturday 12 September 09 22:05 BST (UK)
Hi eadaoin
     Hi Quaxer

Thanks for replying.       I must admit I am getting a little confused with these churches.
I guess St. Mary's church was the main parish of the area??
It looks as if the church  of Star of the Sea, Sandymount covered Donnybrook as well as the church of the Sacred Heart  - so my possible dates of marriage e.g. 1873 - 1875  could have been either of these churches!!!!
helkar
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: Quaxer on Sunday 13 September 09 01:53 BST (UK)
helkar

Shane has indicated thatthe current R.C. Church (Sacred Heart) opened in August 1865 but the marriage records date from January 1877. For some unknown reason there is a gap from 1865-1877 in the records which only a perusal of the other church records will indicate why. Note the old R.C. Church  of St. Mary was disused and I believe offered for sale shortly thereafter. This old  church (1787-1865) was one of several churches in the R.C. parish of Irish and Donnybrook ,a large parish by today' standards but thinly peopled. As the population grew of these rural areas (today engulfed by Dublin City) so original parishes were divided.
As the records are not at Sacred Heart Donnybrook then I suggest you approach the "mother church" St. Mary's  Haddington Road .( Yes there were 2 St MarysR.C. Churches at one time within a few miles of each other)
The marriage should have been registered in the General Register Church.

Regards    Quaxer
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: eadaoin on Sunday 13 September 09 14:25 BST (UK)
I know there's a published history of this parish, written ??80/100 years ago - i got it in my local library in North Dublin.

Unfortunately I can't remember the author, a catholic priest who wrote histories of Blackrock and maybe other parishes.

If you can track it down, it laid out in great detail, when churches were built, made in to parishes, divided etc.

The Diocesan Directory 2006 gives the following
------------------------------------------------------------
DONNYBROOK(Sacred Heart) constituted 1876 from Irishtown, Ringsend and Donnybrook .... so although built in 1865, it was chapel of ease, not a parish, until 1876/77.

HADDINGTON ROAD (St Mary's) constituted 1876 from parish of Irishtown, Ringsend, Donnybrook and Sandymount

IRISHTOWN ... nothing

RINGSEND (St Patrick) constituted 1905 from Sandymount within the original parish of Irishtown, Ringsend and Donnybrook

SANDYMOUNT (St Mary Star of the Sea) constituted 1851

I suppose they used the old St Mary's in Donnybrook Village until it got too decrepit - from Catholic Emancipation in 1829 more Churches were built ... perhaps Sandymount first 1851 ... then perhaps the parish was split 3 ways in 1876 ???

(In the suburbs in 1970s this splitting was still going on, the old Parish of Baldoyle now has at least three parishes ... )

I hope this hasn't confused things still further!!

eadaoin
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: annieoburns on Sunday 13 September 09 15:40 BST (UK)
"Brief Histories of the parishes of Booterstown and Donnybrook"  by Rev Beaver Blacker  1874

I think there might be an online version of this?

There were two old St Mary's churches on the same site adjoining and surronded by the graveyard beside the modern day garda station.  One was Roman Catholic and the other Protestant.  By 1830, the Protestant church of St Mary's had relocated to the corner of Simmonscourt Road and the old church was dismantled.  The catholic 'chapel' was situated on what is now the garda station.  The new RC church of Sacred Heart on the Donnybrook Road was opened in August 1866.
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 13 September 09 16:02 BST (UK)
"Brief Histories of the parishes of Booterstown and Donnybrook"  by Rev Beaver Blacker  1874

I think there might be an online version of this? ....

here's a link to an online version :  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0735/


Shane
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: eadaoin on Sunday 13 September 09 16:21 BST (UK)
"Brief Histories of the parishes of Booterstown and Donnybrook"  by Rev Beaver Blacker  1874

I think there might be an online version of this? ....

here's a link to an online version :  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0735/
Shane

I've just been looking at this - I don't think it's the book I'm thinking of, which was more the RC history of the parish (I think he may have borrowed a bit from Blacker). Also, my recollection was that it was a later book - maybe 1880s ... but i read it several years ago, so I could be wrong

eadaoin
found it! I should never file stuff under Miscellaneous!!

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL4491180M/Short_histories_of_Dublin_parishes

and Google ... Donnelly "Short_histories_of_Dublin_parishes"
Title: Re: Donnybrook Catholic church records
Post by: helkar on Sunday 13 September 09 22:16 BST (UK)
Shane, eadaoin, quaxer - and all who have given me help - leaving me with plenty to read and sort thru.    My next step is certainly a visit to dublin.
Thank you
helkar

p.s.  I'm looking at parish registers because I cannot find a marriage in the BMDs - even though it was around 1872-1875.