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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Nellie09 on Monday 17 August 09 22:19 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for the marriage of Henry Baker (aka William Henry Baker) to a Georgina Headington.
In 1891 Henry is listed as a widower but by Jan 1892 he and Georgina have been married and had a baby. The Anglican church in their area was Christ Church Gipsy Hill. The microfilm role number is X72/21.
The registers are only avaliable on microfilm and I live in Newcastle!
Nellie
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Hi,
Are you certain it was a church wedding? They could have married in a Register Office or in another area.........or perhaps not. ;)
Have you looked for the registration on FreeBMD?
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
The microfilms for Gipsy Hill are probably at the London Metropolitan Archives.
Nanny Jan
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Hi
Marriage registers would be held at the London Metropolitan Archives but your issue is there doesn't appear to be a marriage registered. No Georgina Headingtons on FreeBMD for BMDs.
Do the couple appear as a married couple on the 1901 census?
Regards
Valda
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Hi
By 1901 Henry is living listed as a widower with a house keeper and his four sons.
I am at a complete loss. I have his third sons (her firsts) birth certificate and when she registered his birth she lists herself as Georgina Baker formerly Headington. I cannot find her in ANY census neither can I find Henry's marriage to his first wife or Georgina.
I dont know where to look. I threw all my hopes in with the birth certificate. It seems stange to know so much yet also so little.
Nellie
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Feeling even more down hearted now....just been on the Newham council site which openly states they hold all the registry office records and marriage records from all denominations for the period I want..........BUT......they won't let you see them.
Stuck and fed up.
:'(
Nellie
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My gt.grandmother registered all 10 of her children calling herself Mrs...........; formerly......... Somehow forgot to get themselves to the church or register office!
I searched for a long time for a marriage until an elderly relative commented one day........"Oh they never got married" ::)
Nanny Jan
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Hi Nellie
The registers for marriages which took place at register offices are never open to the public.
I won't be back at the London Metropolitan Archives for a few weeks but can look at the film for 1891 & 1892 to see if they married but their entry didn't make its way onto the GRO list. Many 1000's of marriages haven't for all sorts of reasons, missed off the quarterly returns, missed indexed under a different name, just missed off by the clerks who made the lists.
If that search fails, then you can ask Newham to search the register office marriages but they do charge £18
http://www.newham.gov.uk/Services/FamilyHistoryAndGenealogy/FAQs/default.htm#1
But as Nanny Jan suggests, you may be surprised at the number of couples who just 'didn't get around to it', Rootschat has a lot of similar stories.
Dawn
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Hi
Could you give the details of the family from the 1901 census please and Henry's first wife?
As Dawn said it is not unusual to have couples who never marry for whatever reason and births that are registered as legitimate when they are not but FreeBMD shows no instances of any Georgina Headingtons and no Georgina Baker deaths registered in the South London area between 1891 and 1901.
Does the fourth son's birth certificate give the same details - Georgina Baker formerly Headington?
Regards
Valda
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Hi,
In 1901 the family are listed as living in Deptford St Paul. Henry is listed as a widower aged 63 (he died in 1903). He has a house keeper in her 40's called Sabina Parks. The four children are then listed.
The only certificate I currently have is the 3rd childs, Georgina's first Ernest Edgar b. 1892 in Horwood. The certificate lists their address as Gipsy Hill with Henry's job being a warehouse manager.
Here cometh the problem:
1. The family inherited story - the boys dad was a slight amorous rogue who married a prostitute
2. I cannot find the family in the 1891 Census (by this state there should be
Henry Baker (aka William Henry Baker b. 1838 Hampden in Arden Warwickshire)
William Henry Baker b. 1886 in Leytonstone
Albert Victor (in 1901 census called Victor) b. 1889 in Horwood.
This should be around the time of the first wife. It was openly talked about that my G-grandfather and his younger brother had a different mum to the older two.
3. For his early life Henry appears to have stayed around Warwickshire although I am struggling to find him in the census post 1851. Then there is nothing until 1901 when the family appear minus any mothers.
I so wish my grandmother were alive still. She may have known so much more about her grandparents. All I have are my mothers memories and a few scant photos of the four boys together.
Nellie
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The birthplace of Albert Victor should be Norwood (Surrey) not Horwood ;)
1891 - 1 Whiteley Road, St Mary Lambeth (Norwood), London
Henry BAKER head wid 49 manager iron tub wash house b.Hampton in Arden Warwickshire
Charles P son 8 b.London E
William H son 4 b.Leyton Essex
Albert V son 1 b.Norwood Surrey
Georgina MENNIA? housekeeper mar 21 domestic servent b.Jarrow on Tyne
RG12/419 folio 74 page 15
Casalguidi :)
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What's an H/N between friends ;)
Thanks for that. Now off to 1881 and lets hope the bugger has a wife listed!
Nellie
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Hi
Ditto the 1891 census for the family which includes Georgina and an older son.
1891 census RG12 419 folio 74
1 Whiteley Road Norwood Lambeth
Henry Baker 49 Head Widower Manager Iron tub warehouse Hampton in Arden Warwickshire
Charles P Baker 8 Son London E
William H Baker 4 Son Leyton Essex
Albert V Baker 1 Son Norwood
Georgina Mennie? 21 Housekeeper Married Domestic Servant Jarrow on Tyne
No further forward with Georgina and this different surname or birthplace.
There is a Chales P Baker of the right age born Southwark living with his grandparents the Latimers on the 1901 census. Can't see a Baker/Latimer marriage though and he looks a bit young for the Chales P of the 1891 census
Births Mar 1886
BAKER Charles Percy St. Saviour 1d 83
Regards
Valda
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Georgina HEDDINGTON married (one of the two possible spouses) David MENNIE 1888 South Shields registration district June quarter 1888 ref. 10a 879 http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
Possible ................. ???
1881 - 18 Commercial Rd, Hedworth Monkton & Jarrow, Durham
William HEDDINGTON head mar 51 boiler maker b.Bitton Gloucestershire
Elizabeh wife 38 b.Bitton Gloucestershire
Georgina dau 11 b.Aberdeen
RG11/5023 folio 41 page 30
Casalguidi :)
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Hi
On the 1891 census David Mennie is with his married sister. His status is married but no wife. Still married in 1901 and still no wife.
Regards
Valda
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Hi all,
Right, let me get my head around this. I was aware of the possibility of the George P Baker but have always assumed he died as a child as the other brothers were always refered to as 'Those 4 boys' by the family.
The Headington/Heddington connection could be interesting. I can see no reason why
a. He couldnt have married his house keeper
b. Names do get changed and altered especially in an heavily iliterate age....
Therefore it could be possible that Georgina left Jarrow and her husband and went to the big smoke and shacked up with her employer unable to marry again due to an existing marriage. I live a stones throw from South Shields so I can dig around there this week.
I saw the Latimer grandchild too. By the time their George P was 15, mine would have been 18. BUT there is no knowing what the circumstances were that led the boy to live with his maternal grandparents and on other branches of my tree I have seen similar age gaps etc. What I am thinking now is that Henry might not have married either wife. It seems I will need to get a copy of George P Baker's birth certificate. If that lists a father as Henry and it all fits then the Latimer famiy would be the missing mother.
By all accounts, Henry was a rogue so none of this would be out of character for him. I am so grateful for all of this help. You must all either have complete faily trees but are still addicted to research or are just wonderfully kind!
Nellie
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Hi
To establish the mother's maiden name it might be safer to go for Albert's birth certificate
Births Sep 1889
Baker Albert Victor Lambeth 1d 513
If Charles' P's birth registration is completely wrong (and the age isn't quite right) then you are no further forward with that. If Albert's mother's maiden name isn't Latimer it tends to exclude that census as a possibility if it is then you have the maternal grandparents anyway.
Regards
Valda
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Hi all
Just ordered Victor's birth certificate and now have a good couple of weeks till it arrives. I want it now!!
Never mind.
Nellie
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Hi
Checked the 1891 census and Chas Percy is living with his grandparents the Latimers. There is no other Charle P Bakers registration between 1881 and 1884 so either the P is incorrect on the 1891 census or his birth may have been registered in his mother's maiden name.
A possible for Henry in 1881 which would tie in with Charles P's birthplace of 'London E'
RG11 492 folio 24
24 Atley Road Bow
Henry Baker 40 Head Unmarried Warehouseman Hampton
Elisa English 70 Widow Boarder Visitor Housekeeper Gloucestershire
Jane Heslen 12 Visitor London
1861 census - details consistent with the family in Hampton in Arden on the 1841 census. Henry was a servant in Meriden on the 1851 census.
1861 census RG92189 folio 91
Back Lane Hampton in Arden Warwickshire
Ann Baker 56 Head Widow Charwoman Castle Bromwich Warwickshire
Henry Baker 24 Son Married Warehouseman Hampton Warwickshire
Samuel Baker 21 Son Unmarried Sash vendor Hampton Warwickshire
William Ludford? 11 Grandson Coventry Warwickshire
Mary 9 Ludford? Granddaughter Coventry Warwickshire
plus 3 lodgers
The early marriage would explain why Henry may not have married the mothers of his children.
HENRY BAKER
Christening: 11 DEC 1836 Hampton In Arden, Warwick
Father: WILLIAM BAKER
Mother: ANNE
No obvious candidates for Henry Baker on the 1871 census. There is a Henry Baker in Bow born circa 1836 no birthplace given, but his circumstances are a bit different and the surname Baker is very common. It might however explain how Henry moved from Hampton in Arden to Bow.
What happened to the children after Henry's death?
Regards
Valda
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Hi
Thanks for that info. Have been on the LDS website looking for the first marriage. The only place close enough to his village would have seen him married age 17 which seems really young. Plus, although close, his village is a good 17 miles away which seems too long a distance to be travelling in the first half of that century.
The other possibility is a wedding in Birmingham city centre but that is even further away.
Nellie
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Hi
I have quite a few marriages in Birmingham of people resident in Warwickshire and Worcestershire or perhaps were working in Birmingham for a period of time between the records I have on them. Since you by tradition married in the woman's parish that may also be a reason for a Birmingham marriage.
Some of the Henry Baker marriages in Birmingham/Aston (census night 1851 was 30th March) are on the IGI, plus the Henry William marriage.
HENRY BAKER
MARTHA WARMINGHAM
Marriage: 04 APR 1853 Saint Jude, Birmingham, Warwick
Martha born circa 1836 in Birmingham
HENRY BAKER
ELIZABETH RYAN
Marriage: 23 MAR 1857 Saint Jude, Birmingham, Warwick
HENRY BAKER
CLARA BEEBEE
Marriage: 17 JUN 1860 Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
Clara born circa 1843 in Walsall (seems a Clara of the right age marriaed to a Henry on the 1861 census)
HENRY WILLIAM BAKER
ANN WAGSTAFF
Marriage: 22 JAN 1855 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick
Not on the IGI
Marriages Jun 1851
Baker Henry Birmingham 16 407
Barnes Hannah Birmingham 16 407
Miles Esther Birmingham 16 407
Watts Mary Ann Birmingham 16 407
Marriages Mar 1854
Baker Henry Birmingham 6d 186
Bolton Sarah Birmingham 6d 186
Merry Margaret Birmingham 6d 186
There are also the Warwick, Stratford and Hinckley possibilities.
Still alot of possibilities there.
Regards
Valda
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I dont know how far you have progressed all this but Georgina Hedington is my great grandmother, Her son John George Baker is my grandfather. She registered his birth as Georgina Baker previously Headington but all my investigations show that this should have been spelt Heddington.
You mention Charles as one of the 4 boys he didnt die until 1917 in Flanders.
I hope we can get together here and exchange info to fill in some of the gaps.
By the way did you know that Albert Victor was Mayor of Falmouth and the Horwood should be Norwood Surrey although it is London now.
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Hi
Checked the 1891 census and Chas Percy is living with his grandparents the Latimers. There is no other Charle P Bakers registration between 1881 and 1884 so either the P is incorrect on the 1891 census or his birth may have been registered in his mother's maiden name.
A possible for Henry in 1881 which would tie in with Charles P's birthplace of 'London E'
RG11 492 folio 24
24 Atley Road Bow
Henry Baker 40 Head Unmarried Warehouseman Hampton
Elisa English 70 Widow Boarder Visitor Housekeeper Gloucestershire
Jane Heslen 12 Visitor London
1861 census - details consistent with the family in Hampton in Arden on the 1841 census. Henry was a servant in Meriden on the 1851 census.
1861 census RG92189 folio 91
Back Lane Hampton in Arden Warwickshire
Ann Baker 56 Head Widow Charwoman Castle Bromwich Warwickshire
Henry Baker 24 Son Married Warehouseman Hampton Warwickshire
Samuel Baker 21 Son Unmarried Sash vendor Hampton Warwickshire
William Ludford? 11 Grandson Coventry Warwickshire
Mary 9 Ludford? Granddaughter Coventry Warwickshire
plus 3 lodgers
The early marriage would explain why Henry may not have married the mothers of his children.
HENRY BAKER
Christening: 11 DEC 1836 Hampton In Arden, Warwick
Father: WILLIAM BAKER
Mother: ANNE
No obvious candidates for Henry Baker on the 1871 census. There is a Henry Baker in Bow born circa 1836 no birthplace given, but his circumstances are a bit different and the surname Baker is very common. It might however explain how Henry moved from Hampton in Arden to Bow.
What happened to the children after Henry's death?
Regards
Valda
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Hi colbak
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
According to her profile Nellie, the original poster, hasn't been online here since 2009. Hopefully she will receive email notifications that we have posted and come back soon.
Fingers crossed.
Dawn