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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 04:45 BST (UK)

Title: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 04:45 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I have 2 ancestors that I have not yet been able to find how they got to Australia. The first is Benjamin Purss born about 1839. He married Mary Ibbotson in Sydney in 1865 and died in Cootamundra in 1919. According to his death certificate he had been in Australia for 66 years. If this is correct he arrived about 1853. I'm not sure if he was a convict or not and I have not been able to find him using that spelling. The second is Alexander Weeks who according to his death certificate from 1873 he had been in Australia for 32 years. He possibly arrived about 1841 with a wife Harriet and some children. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Eupham  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 05:02 BST (UK)
Was Alexander Weeks also in NSW?

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 05:43 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn,

According to his death certificate he was.
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 07:01 BST (UK)
Hi Eupham,

Alexander WEEKS arrived in Sydney on 24 Oct 1841 aboard the VICTORIA

Application of Married Immigrant (I can only transcribe what I think I can see)

Alexander WEEKS a native of Charthouse Menten County of Somerset, son of Barbara WEEKS a widow
He was an Ag Lab aged 37
Thomas Spencer certified his baptism
Joseph Erwood and another certified to his character
state of bodily health, strength and probable usefulness - very good
He was Protestant
He could read and write
no complaints paid £63

Harriet WEEKS a native Phillips  native County Somerset, daughter of Thos SPEARS a farmer and Marey PEARSE WESTLEY his wife
She was a L'dery Wooman aged 35
Richard Palaint - Vicar certified her baptism
Joseph Erwood and another certified to her character
state of bodily health, strength and probable usefulness - very good
She was Protestant

WEEKS Mary Ann 12 can read
WEEKS Clara Fanny 9 can read
WEEKS Emma Harriet 2 1/2
WEEKS Ann 8 months Born 31 Dec 1840

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 07:18 BST (UK)
Now we have what looks like PEARSE Crossed out with WESTLEY below

Cant say that the father Thos looks like Pearse it looks more like Spears to me but there is a marriage

Alexander WEEKS of Hinton Charterhouse = Harriet PEARSE by Licence Norton St Phillip 10 Aug 1838

Pretty close to what I read the parishes as in the applications (I just loved wooman) - so the older children are not Harriets.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 07:23 BST (UK)
Also note Thomas PEARSE = Mary WESTLEY 29 July 1805 Bath St James   ;)

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tasmania on Monday 17 August 09 07:24 BST (UK)
This site may be worth a look.

Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters  

Masters, crew, a stowaway or two; passengers, cabin, saloon and steerage; births at sea, deaths at sea; deserters; vessels with one crew and one passenger and those with 70 crew and hundreds of passengers; simple single sail boats, barques, brigs, large steam ships; whaling voyages, regular coastal passenger trips, voyages from other Australian ports, London, San Francisco, China and other exotic ports - you will find them all here.    

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 07:27 BST (UK)
Good finds  there Kris ;D

Eupham,
if you post the date of death you  have for Benjamin Purss,  I  know  that one of our fellow Rootschatters  often pops into the National library and does looks ups.  So  it might be possible  for  her to see if  there was an obituary for him  in  the Coota" Herald.

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 08:01 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Thanks so much you are all amazing at this. Benjamin Purss died on the 14th May 1919 in the district hospital at Cootamundra.

Cheers
Eupham  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 10:17 BST (UK)
What will also help us if  you  can tell from  any of  these records where he was born and parents names, we can then see what last census he was on  if  he was from Uk

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 10:20 BST (UK)
Kris

the unassisted emmigrants have an arrival for
Benjamin PRUSS arriving 1862  November on the  Balclutha

I have looked at  the record and  the name is very hard to make out

what do you make of it please?

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 10:50 BST (UK)
unfortunately the unassisted passenger lists provide no information apart from a name.

In this case I see no relevance re this entry as it refers to a trip from Melbourne to Sydney

The name I am not sure of but it certainly not PRUSS

To me if I was looking at something for PURSS I would instantly think it may well be PEARC/SE - Seen a lot of parish registers for this name which could easily be transcribed as something like PURSS in my Cornish parish records, but if Eupham has the name as PURSS in numerous records it may not be the case here - Just my thoughts.

Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 10:53 BST (UK)
I did realise it was not an entry into Australia  but  was rather looking at  a time frame to see when he was here.  Perhaps arriving first into Victoria. 

The name dosen't appear to be Pruss as transcribed but did wonder if it was Purss.

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 11:02 BST (UK)
On his death certificate from 1919 he is 82 years old, his parents are Edward Purss and Mary Ann Milbourne and he was born in Liverpool England. He had been in Australia for 66 years so if the info is correct he arrived in 1853. The death certificate states he is not married so his wife had already died.

He married Mary Ibbotson on the 11th March 1865 in Sydney so it is possible he arrived in 1862 and the death certificate is wrong about how long in NSW.

I also have the marriage certificate of his parents (different spelling) Edward Parss married Mary Ann Milburn on the 4th Jan 1838 at St John the Baptist Church in Liverpool. I hope this helps

Cheers
Eupham  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 11:06 BST (UK)
So his parents married in Liverpool England?  just to clarify

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Monday 17 August 09 11:08 BST (UK)
Yes and he was born there a year or two later
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 11:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Eupham  just  confirming :D

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: maidmarianoops on Tuesday 18 August 09 13:26 BST (UK)
free settler or felon

http://www.jenwilletts.com/index.htm

sylvia
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: judb on Tuesday 18 August 09 14:04 BST (UK)
Is this your chap?

Free BMD birth shows
Benjamin PURSS Mar 1839, reg West Derby, vol20 page 841

The Ancestry criminal register only shows convictions for a William PURSS 1858, Nottinghamshire and another William PURSS July 1872 Surrey.

I think I see him, Born in County, age 2,  with Mary PURSS, 30, Independent, Not Born in County, at Grove St Liverpool in 1841.  Can't see either of them in 1851 but the name could easily have been mistrnscribed.  :-\

And a VERY long shot..............
Looking at the National Library digitised newspaper site are many mentions of an Edward PURSS as a ship owner/captain in the mid 1800s. It is an unusual name but, given that Mary is on her own with Benjamin in 1841, and of independent means perhaps it may be a clue.................
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

There are a few mentions on Google for"Benjamin PURSS" including some other genealogical information aobut his descendants.



Cheers, Judith

Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: maidmarianoops on Wednesday 19 August 09 02:05 BST (UK)
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/family_group_record.asp?familyid=4784533&frompage=99

JUST WILD CARDS BUT  STRANGE
DO THESE NAMES MEAN ANYTHING TO YOUR SEARCH
SYLVIA


hello found these 2 children living with a MEEHAM FAMILY
ALSO  OTHER CHILDREN
CLARK 
Charles H PURSE   
Born  1875
 Matilda Alice PURSS   
 Born 28 Feb 1877  Walgett, Nsw, Aus
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 02:25 BST (UK)
Bit More,

1903 NSW Electoral Roll, seat of HUME, polling place ADELONG - that's near Cootamundra.

Line 744
PURSS, Pertina, Female, domestic duties (no others at that polling place with that surname).

Checking other polling places on that roll, and earlier rolls.

JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 02:31 BST (UK)
Ah !  ;)

1903 roll, Cootamundra polling place, seat of HUME (1903 includes FEMALES for first time, but enrollment was NOT compulsory)
Line 1188
(DEFINITELY SAYS PURSE, DOES NOT SAY PURSS)
Purse, Benjamin; Male, living at Cucumbla, a labourer. 

No others with similar surname at that polling place.

Still checking

EDIT TO ADD  - have not found others with surname PURSS on the roll for the seat of HUME in earlier rolls.  Sorry.

JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 02:53 BST (UK)
BUT, 1878 sighting  of both Edward and Benjamin PURSS on electoral roll in Newtown (suburb in inner west Sydney!

Line 2743 Purss, Benjamin, Campbell St, household, (ie qualification to enrol, suggesting to me he lived in that household)
Line 2744 Purss, Edward, Campbell St, residence (ie suggesting to me, this was his residence, and that Benjamin lived there too). 

Will now try to find them in Sydney in 1870 roll.

JM

Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 03:01 BST (UK)
Ah, 1870 roll, same address, Campbell Street NEWTOWN.

There were property qualifications for voting in NSW in those days. 

Lines 1939 and 1940, PURSS with Benjamin as household and Edward as residence.

Cheers,  hope this helps fill in some gaps.  I have not searched for arrival in NSW for the PURSS family.   

BUT 1869 Sands directory seems to show:

Purss, Benjamin, printer, Campbell st, NEWTOWN

EDIT TO ADD  
http://cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/newtownproject/Sands_Directory/sands_directory.html

JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 19 August 09 03:50 BST (UK)
Great Finds JM  ;D

arriving as unassisted immigrants aboard the ELIZABETH 28 Apr 1860

Captain Edward PURSS Master Mariner
Mrs PURSS
Benj PURSS

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 04:06 BST (UK)
Well Done Kris,  that gets them from Melbourne to NSW, but can we get them to Melbourne from overseas perhaps around 1853 ish?  I don't have much experience on arrivals to Victoria, but perhaps the following is them arriving in Sept 1853 on the ship LOWESTOFT?  (Online index only)
Benjamin aged 13, Edward aged 45, Edwd Capt, Mary Ann aged 40, Mary Ann Aged 8 ?   

http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search_results.asp JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 19 August 09 04:15 BST (UK)
Looks Good JM

Benjamin PURSS is listed at 18 Edward St Pyrmont in 1866

1867 also along with

PURSS Edward - Master Mariner


1868 Benjamin is listed at University Hotel Glebe Rd

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 04:39 BST (UK)
Well Done Kris!

I guess Eupham will have lots of clues to follow up on now.

JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 19 August 09 04:50 BST (UK)
1841 census

HO107/561/25 Folio 12 Page 17
Grove St
Liverpool


PURSS Mary 30 No Ind
PURSS Benjamin 2 Y
PRINGLE Jane 5 Y
EVANS Elizabeth 25 N Female Servant

Benjamin PURSS born Mar 1/4 1839 West Derby 20 841

Cheers Kris  :)

Yes Eupham should be pleased with the latest developements here JM  ;D
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:15 BST (UK)
Well  it is probably  them into Melbourne as Judb pointed out in  her reply  there are a number of "hits" regarding Edard Purss master mariner in  the newspapers.

And  they arrived into  Sydney shows on  the unassisted  site from Melbourne to Sydney

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:24 BST (UK)

death in Victoria


 PURSS Mary Anne  died 1855 aged 12 birth place Live ( no doubt Liverpool)
father Edward mother Mary Anne Milburn  regno 4207


Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:36 BST (UK)
Well done, Jenn - there's a nee name for Mrs Purss, and I was about to post that I could not find Mary Ann in NSW bdm records.  What a series of grand surprises for Eupham when next back online! 
Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:40 BST (UK)
Yes it matches  the parents names  given in reply no 13 by Eupham. 

However I  don't  think Eupham knew  the parents had come to Australia,  but we will find  that out when Eupham comes back on line

Jenn
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:40 BST (UK)
Aha It helped with the marriage too  ;D

Edward PARSS = Mary Ann MILBURN Mar 1/4 1838 West Derby 20 549

EDIT: Hohum, its in reply 13 also

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Convict or Free?
Post by: Eupham on Wednesday 19 August 09 09:01 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Oh my god! I go away for one day and look at all the bricks you guys have knocked off that wall that I hit. Where to start, you're right Jenn it never occured to me that Benjamin's parents had come out as well. Perhaps it's because they went to Melbourne first. Let me see if I've got this right

Sept 1853 - arrived in Melbourne on "LOWESTOFT" with Edward Purss 45 (Capt), Mary Ann 40, Benjamin 13 and Mary Ann 8.

1855 - Sister Mary Ann dies age 12 in Melbourne

28th Apr 1860 - arrived in Sydney on "ELIZABETH" with Edward, Mary Ann and Benjamin.

I did see all the times Edward Purss was mentioned in the old newspapers yet the penny didn't drop. Where would I be without you guys (still banging my head against that brickwall)  :)

Cheers
Eupham  :)