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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sheilat on Sunday 16 August 09 22:48 BST (UK)

Title: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Sunday 16 August 09 22:48 BST (UK)
Susan Mary SMYTH(E) married James CONNELL in Adelaide in 1858. Does anyone have any details about her family? I think her father may have been Bernard and that she may have been born in Ireland.
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 16 August 09 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi Sheilat,

Here is the marriage entry

CONNELL James 26 Single father John CONNELL = SMYTH Susan 22 single father Bernard SMYTH 3 Nov 1858 St Patrick Adelaide Dist Ade 36 82

Cheers Kris  :)


Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Sunday 16 August 09 23:01 BST (UK)
That was fast! Thank you!
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 16 August 09 23:02 BST (UK)
There are two births recorded to Bernard

SMYTH Mary 28 Dec 1853 not recorded Dist Ade 4 267 parents Bernard SMYTH and Margaret SLATTERY
SMYTH Sarah 16 Sep 1858 Bagots Gap Dist Kap 14 171 "

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Sunday 16 August 09 23:12 BST (UK)
Thank you. I have a note that Susan Mary Smyth may have been born in Cavan, Ireland, as was her dad, Bernard.
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 16 August 09 23:18 BST (UK)
Sorry - should have checked further - this could not be her parents.  :'(

From the BISA

SMYTH Bernard b c1816 Belfast Ireland died 21 Aug 1894 Laura SA arrived 1840 TOMATIN occupation Farmer residence Nairn, Freeling, Bagots Gap and others religion RC
married 23 Aug 1852 Mt Barker SA Mgt nee SLATTERY parents John born May 1820 Kerry Tipperary Ireland died 19 Jun 1907 Laura SA children Mary 1853-1917, Joseph 1855-1912, Sarah NOONAN 1858-1933, Mgt Gallivan 1860, Ellen 1863

He arrived alone

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1840Tomatin.htm

Here is the Connell entry

CONNELL James born about 1828 died 19 Mar 1884 buried Navan SA residence Adelaide, Gilbert, Navan religion RC
married 3 Nov 1858 Adelaide SA Susan Mary nee
SMYTH/SMITH born 1835 died 26 Aug 1913 children Patk 1869, child 1872, Francie 1873. Joseph 1878

Kris  :)
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Monday 17 August 09 00:26 BST (UK)
Hmmmm. If Bernard Smyth married Margaret Slattery in 1852, that can't be Susan Mary's mum, since Susan was born about 1836. I wonder if that's the right Bernard Smyth? Or maybe a second wife to Bernard? If he's the one on the ship Tomatin in 1840, he should have had his child with him. Very perplexing! Thanks for all your efforts. At least I'm narrowing things down.
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 00:58 BST (UK)
Hi Sheila,

I have been hunting for anything further to no avail.

Quote
Sorry - should have checked further - this could not be her parents.   :'(

I did realise when I found the marriage followed by the arrival alone, that this was not Susan's parents. As you say, I also wondered if he may have been a young widower but there is no child with him. This Bernard's father was not recorded at marriage. (That marriage was in Mt Barker)

Looks like there is a second Bernard marrying at St Pats I wondered if may have been connected but alas he lists father as George

SMYTH Bernard 26 status not recorded father George = OCONNELL Catherine 19 status not recorded father Martin O'Connell 16 Oct 1864 St Patrick Adelaide Dist Ade 60 250 - No births or BISA entry listed

I do not see Susan's arrival in SA. Looking for anything further re possible siblings all I have found is

SMITH Terence 22 status not recorded father Bernard SMITH = CONNOR Cecily 22 status not recorded father Peter CONNOR 22 Aug 1856 Penrice Dist Kap 27/211

Sorry I do not seem to be finding anything helpful

There is no death listed in SA for Susan's father Bernard.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 04:47 BST (UK)
I can see only  one son's birth registered.

Joseph CONNELL born 15/1/1878 at Navan book 193 page 416
father James Connell  mother Susan Mary Smyth

James and Susan Mary Connell are buried in  the Navan Cemetery
and by  the headstone so are two sons
Joseph died 16/2/1943 by  his headstone aged 65
John died 14/11/1930 aged 71

Jenn
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Monday 17 August 09 04:59 BST (UK)
Yes, I have most of the Connell information and the data from the Navan cemetery. Including eight kids for Susan Mary. It's her background that has been rather elusive. Her age and her father's name seem pretty certain, from the church entry in Adelaide. I wish they'd seen fit to tell us her mother's name as well! That could have narrowed down which Bernard was her dad.
Oh, well. On with the hunt. Thank you all for your help.
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 05:01 BST (UK)
Were all  the children born in South Australia?

If you  list  their names and birth years that will  help  if  other researchers in  the same family  line see your  postings.

Jenn
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Monday 17 August 09 05:36 BST (UK)
I hope these help someone: I have these children of Susan Mary Smythe and James Connell: John, 1859; Owen (Eugene), 1861 (m. Ellen Little); Anne, 1863 (m. Terry Murphy); James Francis, 1866 (m. Annie McManus); Patrick, 1868?; Mary Teresa, 1872 (m. Michael James Meaney); Francie, 1873; Joseph Stephen, 1878 (m. Mary Josephine Sherlock); all born in South Australia.
Any further information and/or confirmations would be most welcome.
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 17 August 09 06:31 BST (UK)
I note Sashar was looking at a possible connection here also. Wondering if she has progressed at all. I have alerted her to this thread. Hopefully she will join us here.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,241338.0.html

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: SASHAR on Monday 17 August 09 08:37 BST (UK)
Quote
SMITH Terence 22 status not recorded father Bernard SMITH = CONNOR Cecily 22 status not recorded father Peter CONNOR 22 Aug 1856 Penrice Dist Kap 27/211


I'm a descendant of the above couple.   I tried to unscramble this years ago and could only come up with the possibility that Terence and Susan could have been siblings.   Some early records have SMYTH as the surname but it soon changed to SMITH.

I also eliminated the Bernard & Margaret SMYTH (nee Slattery) being related to Terence.

I'll go back to my notes but I don't think I ever found anything concrete to link Terence and Susan other than the fact they both had a father named Bernard, were a similar age and originally spelt their surname SMYTH.

I'll get back once I've checked my notes.
Regards,
Sashar
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: SASHAR on Tuesday 18 August 09 09:28 BST (UK)
Sorry I can't shed any further light on Susan Smyth  :(

I have no proof my SMYTH/SMITH's were Irish but Terence certainly married an Irish girl and they were of Catholic religion.   Terence's children b. 1857-1861 Truro Sth Australia if that's of any help.

Sheila - where did you get your info from that told you Susan & her father Bernard were born in Cavan?    Could that mention other siblings?

Kind regards,
Sashar


Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Tuesday 18 August 09 17:36 BST (UK)
Sashar -- I'm afraid I have no further information on Bernard Smyth. Someone in an earlier generation had mentioned Cavan, so I quickly noted it. It seemed to be commonly understood in my son-in-law's family, but there was no proof. No mother's name. No siblings for Susan.
It's strange that Susan and her husband didn't name the second son Bernard, but called  him Owen -- and he was known as Eugene! I've tried to draw some conclusions from the names of their other children, but haven't come up with any ideas.
SheilaT
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: SASHAR on Wednesday 19 August 09 02:41 BST (UK)
Hi Sheila,
The name Bernard was used by Terence in the naming of his last son.
Other children were Peter(that would be after Terence's father in law), James Edward, Thomas Stuart & Terence.
Terence (the father) died in 1866 when he was 31yrs old and his wife Cecily never remarried.   Would love to know how she managed with 5 small children to raise on her own.   Cecily (nee Connor) came to Australia on her own and I've yet to find any other relatives for her here in Australia.
Terence & Cecily's eldest 2 sons married in Melbourne when they were around 30yrs of age and the youngest son Bernard although marrying in SA had his children all born in Vic as well.   The eldest son married a girl born in Clare, Ireland (maybe she lived Vic), the second son married a girl born and lived Vic.
The youngest may have moved to be closer to his brothers.
That sort of elimanates a Vic connection on the SMYTH side but I guess it is still a possibility.
Following generations certainly kept the names Terence, Cecily and Connor as family names.   Maybe Bernard wasn't very nice and nobody wanted to hand the name down  :o

Thanks for getting back to me, I have a feeling this may all remain a mystery.
Kind regards,
Sashar
Title: Re: Susan Mary SMYTH(E)
Post by: sheilat on Wednesday 19 August 09 05:32 BST (UK)
Well, Cavan begins to seem quite likely a place of origin for these people, anyway! I've just come across several websites that reproduce an 1821 census for Cavan. I didn't spot any households with Bernard and Susan Mary, of course,  BUT I did find several Bernard Smyths, and a Susanagh Smyth (though this would be too early for Susan Mary herself).

Another entry says a school was at one site, operated by an Owen Smyth. This intrigues me because Susan Mary Smyth named her second son Owen, which didn't seem to be all that common a name in the family in Australia.
 
Maybe I'm grasping at straws now!

Sheila