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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Suznor on Saturday 15 August 09 12:30 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help to trace the 10th Hussars ?
My Great Great Great Grandad Richard Hamblin was in the 10th Hussars. In the 1861 census i have him stationed at the Ipswich Cavalary Barrack just before he marries a Sarah Stannard. The birth certificate of his son Richard Henry Hamblin in 1864, states his father's occupation as being in the 10th Hussars but after his date i can not find any trace of him until the 1881 census. Can anyone tell me where the 10th Hussars were between 1864 and 1881 ?
Regards
Suznor
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Can anyone tell me where the 10th Hussars were between 1864 and 1881 ?
1855-56 the regiment were involved in the final stages of the Crimean War
1856-73 inclusive they were back in UK, although I don't have any specific locations for you
1873-78 in India
1878-79 they were involved in the 2nd Afghan War
1879-84 still stationed in India
Looking at the medal roll for the Afghan War, I see 19 Pte R.Hamblin, 10th Hussars is listed! He received the medal without clasp. The roll was compiled in Oct 1881, and at that time he's listed as Discharged.
So he left the army sometime between 1879 and 1881 and returned to the UK.
Here's the medal
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/afghanistan_medal_1878.htm
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Hi Suznor
The 10th Hussars at Ipswich in 1861 was only a detachment. The main force was at Norwich. They left Norwich in September 1861 for York, and left for Ireland in April 1863. Left Ireland in May 1868 moving between Aldershot, Brighton, Hounslow, Colchester and Blandford before embarking for India in January 1873.
These places are where the main force was based. Detachments could be within, say, a 50 mile radius, if the accommodation could not take all the men together, Or if they were spread out while ‘assisting the civil powers', ie acting as a police force.
In addition, about 10% of the strength could be in a separate Depot used for recruitment and training. This always stayed in the UK, and could also be with the main strength, or located on its own. To be certain where each man was you will have to look at the muster books in Kew. By the mid 1870s the muster books should record the names of the wives plus the ages of each child against the each man on the married roll. While in Kew you could look to see if his papers survive. If you cannot get to Kew Findmypast will be putting surviving papers online by 2011.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
If you are looking for other BMDs you should try the overseas/regimental BMDs on (say) Findmypast. The index will give the regiment, although I have found that there are a few mistakes in the regiment quoted, so if you find any Hamblins, but not under 10th Hussars, it may be worthwhile sending off for the certificate.
Civil registration of births started in Ireland in 1864 and with an uncommon name you should be able to find any Irish children.
Ken
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Neil/Suznor
I have the casualty roll for the 2nd Afghan War and the 10th Hussars lost one man killed and six wounded in action with the enemy. However one officer and 45 men drowned while crossing the Kabul River.
Ken
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Ken/Neil
Thank you for your information. I now have a lead to follow.
Regards
Suznor
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Hello,
I have just registered on this site and found this thread.
I have been tracing an ancestor who shows on the 1861 Census as being a private in 10th Hussars, Pocklethorpe, Norwich. I am unable to find him on the 1871 Census.
I have three questions I would appreciate help with:
a. Could a soldier (Private) have taken his family with him when he went abroad?
b. The majority of people living around my, Barrack Street, ancestor appear to have no connection with the Army at all. In the Hansard for 4 June 1866 it was stated that "it was intended to give up the barracks at Norwich as the troops formerly quartered in them could be accommodated in the new barracks at Colchester. If this was the case why were non military personnel living in the barracks.
c. Could someone point me in the direction of an on-line map of the barracks in circa 1860?
Thanks
Graham
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Hi Graham
Each rank had a number of vacancies on the married roll. If he was given permission to marry the whole family would go overseas. If he married without permission he would have to leave them behind. Men serving overseas could have some of their pay paid to relatives back home. The army were quite happy to help to ensure relatives did not become a burden on the parish.
The main force of the 10th Hussars was in Hounslow for the 1871 census. You can go to Kew to see if his service record survives, or wait for Findmypast to put them online 'by 2011'. Otherwise you can research the Muster Books in Kew. The one for 1871-72 will tell you if anyone was in a small detachment away from Hounslow. But I would expect his family to be in Hounslow anyway.. This assumes he was still serving.
You need to ask in the Norfolk section for any online OS plans. But even better, the NA has two plans in Kew - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=norwich+barracks&txtfirstdate=&txtlastdate=&txtrestriction=&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=0&image1.y=0
One is from 1892, which isn't in keeping with it being 'given up' in the 1860s. It would be better to go to Kew and take a digital picture yourself. Or you could press REQUEST THIS and get a quote from the NA to print them off. The one from 1849 may need A2, and a colour print that size was over £20, ten years old.
If it was still there in 1905 you can buy a reprinted OS plan from Alan Godfrey Maps for £2.25 plus postage. But they have a few covering Norwich, so you must first find where it was. You should also find it in 1851 to make sure it was the same one.
If you got the information about non-military personnel from a census you need to find it on Ancestry and post the link. Barracks were run by the Barracks Department. They employed civilians – usually ex-soldiers.
Ken
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I have the enlistment papers for a great uncle who server in the 10th Hussars from 1889 to 1919.
They are quite a jumble of in formation as to where he served but basically it looks as it was in England, India, South Africa and possibly France in WW1. Can anyone tell me the dates where the 10th were stationed during this period of time?
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Hi
Can you give his name, place of birth, date of enlistment and age on joining. Thanks
Ken
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Hi Annice
Thanks for the PM
10th Hussars
= Apr 1888 - York
= Aug 1891 - Curragh
= Oct 1891 – Dublin
= Sep 1892 – Cahir
= Jul 1894 – Ballincollig
= May 1895 – Newbridge
= Jun 1897 – Aldershot
= Sep 1897 – Canterbury
= Sep 1899 – Aldershot
= Sailed for South Africa (Boer War), 6 November 1899
= Sailed for India, 22 September 1902
= 1903 – Mhow
= 1908 – Rawalpindi
= Sailed for South Africa, 1913
= 1914 – Potchefstroom
For WW1 service see this - http://www.1914-1918.net/hussars.htm
These are the locations of the regiment – usually about 90% of their strength. The remainder would have formed the depot, which stayed in the UK for the training of recruits. In the early/mid 1880s it was in Canterbury; in February 1902 it was in Hounslow. At other times it could have been with the rest of the regiment, or in Canterbury, which had a large number of cavalry barracks.
Ken
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Hi Niel, Can you please tell me if there is an Arthur O'Regan or Roland O'Regan listed in the Afghan medal list for the 10th Hussars? Tom
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I saw the topic the 10th Hussar topic on here and wonder if anyone could point me in the right direction. My great uncle Alexander Roby [1885 - 1925] was apparently enlisted in the 10th Hussars by his uncle on the death of his father in 1901. In the 1901 census he was shown as 16years and a saddler. The next hard information we have is a postcard he sent my mother from an army convalescent home at 4 South Terrace, Skelton in 1907. I have looked at the 'military overseas' 1911 census which lists an Alexander Robey [different spelling but the birth dates and enlistment location fit] but doesnt give regt number or location at the time. I have a medal roll card [CY/9 - 2]for a Pte A Robey 10th Hussars, Regt No 387 awarding the 1914 Star but that is all. Could anyone please suggest other areas of research. Many thanks
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A man enlisting in the 10th Hussars in 1901 would have been given a number in the 5000s with each hussar regiment having their own sequence. If he transferred to another regiment he would have been renumbered. Between the Boer War and WW1 they seem to have enlisted all hussars into the Corps of Hussars with only one sequence. My guess is that 387 was such a Corps man, as the original 387 would have enlisted 20 or 30 years before your man. But you really need an expert in the numbering used by the hussar regiments.
The NA medal web site has a much better search facility than Ancestry, so you can search for hussars with number 38? to get their name, and then look on Ancestry for their record. This will tell you when they enlisted.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1
For ‘institutions’ in the 1911 census the enumerator was only supposed to enter the man’s initials. So you need to look for A Rs as well. If he was married then it will be easier to look for his family, as the married quarters recorded full names. I am surprised you cannot tell the location. Have you checked all the returns and looked at the ‘district’ description?
Service before the age of 18 did not count, so he would have signed up until he was 30, ie c1915. So you would think he served in France. He may have purchased his discharge before WW1.
If you get stuck I would post a question on both the British Medal Forum and the Great War Forum, putting ‘10th Hussars’ in the title.
Ken
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Ken, I am very much obliged for your detailed information and pointers. I shall follow your suggestions and hope that they bear fruit. The only additional info I have from talking to my 95yr old mother today was that she was told he was one of the first called up at the outbreak of war. This would suggest to me that he was no longer in the Army at that time but was on some form of 'reserve' list. The fact he was in a convalescent home in Oct '07 may suggest some form of medical discharge but we are fairly certain he served in India - he had a Hindustani? language bible and some local ivory jewellery which he gave to my mother. He also told her stories of the Durbar which suggests he may have been there at the time but unfortunately that cannot be substantiated. Again, many thanks for your help..
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Interesting to learn this about the 10th Hussars. One of my ancestors served with them from 1846 to 1870, leaving as 876 squadron quarter master sergeant. They were in the East Indies in the 1840s and 1850s until they went to the Crimea. Does anybody know where they would have been stationed in India?
many thanks
nick
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This is amazing, I have been wondering why my great uncle was married in Canterbury when both he and his bride came from South London.
I know he was in the 10th before September 1920 and I know he was on the train ambushed by the IRA on Friday 24th June 1921 a in Bessbrook, Co. Tyrone where he was among the injured.
Before seeing that the Cavalry Barracks were in Canterbury, his wedding there mid 1922 had stumped me.
Thank you Ken for the information.
Trevor
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Hi Ken
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am new to this chat room and hope you may help me with my quest to further my knowledge of my GGG Grandfather.
I know little of him except that he was mentioned in my GG Grandfather's wedding notice in the Sydney Morning Herald, 1871.
This 1871 newspaper article identifies my GGG Grandfather to be one "Edward Ernest Gildea from County Mayo Ireland and a Colonel of the 10th Hussars".
I would appreciate any lead to further my research. Thank you Andrew
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You can usually trace the careers of officers via the London Gazette website. I cannot find any listing for an Edward Gildea - http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/AdvancedSearch.aspx?geotype=London
The 1850 Army List has two officers called Gildeas - John Arthur Gildea serving with the 81st Regiment, and Stanhope Mason Gildea of the 25th Regiment. If you are sure he was an officer you need to come up with a date when you think he served.
There is an Edward Gildea living in Liverpool in the 1881 census. He was born in Ireland, but he is a 46 year old dock labourer.
Ken
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More 10th Hussars!!
I have just discovered another member of my family who served in the 10th Hussars. He was Private John William Wigham born 1887 in Gillingham in Kent.
The only records I can find for him are 1911 census which states he is overseas and his WWI medals record which reads as following :
Victory - (with X X beside it) CY/125B
British - CY/125B
14 Star 6 387 CY/13
C + R.I.V.B / 7176
What i would like to know is where was he in 1911?
He seem to have won a few medals - were these medals awarded for special reasons or are they stanard service medals ( I hope no takes offence at my terminology as i do realise that all medals won by soldiers are special) and if they were won for special reasons how can i go about finding out what he did?
And lastly where should i look for any other information about his army service as i think he survived the war as i cannot find any death record for him.
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The 10th Hussars were in India (Rawalpindi) in 1911. You are lucky if he is recorded in full, as the numerator should only have recorded his initials. They stayed there until 1913. They were in South Africa at the start of WW1. His three WW1 medals were 'standard'. There should be a date he 'entered theatre' in order to qualify for the 1914 Star.
I don't know what C + R.I.V.B / 7176 means. IV would mean 'Issue Voucher', and CRV would mean 'Certified Issue Voucher'. Both would have a date attached. The movement of medals was carefully recorded. CIVs occurred when they were returned for re-naming, or because they could not be delivered. IV was the medal(s) being sent out. He may have received the 1914 Star up to two years before the 'pair'.
XX against the Victory and BWM (they were issued together) is usually matched by marks near the rank and regiment - to show what was impressed on the medals.
Ken
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Thanks Ken,
This info is really great. Could you tell me when the 10thn Hussars ship out to Rawalpindi India - had they been there awhile when the 1911 census was taken?
Many thanks
Suzanne
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Hi Suzanne
They were in South Africa for the Boer War and left for India about 22 September 1902. They were in Mhow until 1908 before moving to Rawalpindi.
I have already checked the Boer War medal roll and he is not listed. So he probably went straight to India after initial training (probably in Canterbury).
btw...there is a George Wigham on the Boer War medal roll for the Imperial Yeomanry. Any connection? The IY were mounted infantry raised during the war. They usually served for 12 months.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Once again thanks. I dont know if George Wigham from the Boer War medal list is related but my John William Wigham did have a brother George Henry who was in the Royal Army Service Corps T/19648 as a driver during WWI. I dont know when George joined the army or if he transfered regiments - is this possible? Also i am not sure when John joined the army could you suggest where i might look for that?
The father of these two brothers was in the Royal Marines and i was lucky enough to find some information about him on ancestry.
Regards
Suzanne
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???
Hello,
I am new to ths site. I am desperately trying to find the war records of Harry Bailey born 1882 who served in the 10th Hussars in South Africa,ww1 and afterwards in France on exhumation duty. He rose from being in the territorial army in Pontefract Yorkshire to the rank of captain by the end of his service in France.
His last remaining child is approaching 90 and is not in good health but would like to know what Harry did to achieve the rank of captain.
Thank you
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In the photo Back Row Top left I believe to be my Great Grandfather Charles Evenden b1870. I have found him on the 1891 census at the Barracks, Fulford, Yorkshire, England, apart from that in all the other census's he is at home where he becomes a father every 2 years. Anyone have any ideas on the photo? And am I to guess he didn't serve to long? He got married in 1873!
MOD CORRECTION: Marriage is apparently 1893 (see later post)
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Hi and welcome
Can you correct the dates? You have him born in 1870 and marrying three years later. And knowing where he was born will help.
He seems to have served long enough to make Corporal. Have you looked for his service record on Findmypast? He does not appear to have served in the Boer War. So he may have transferred to a regiment that did not go there or he was discharged before the Boer War started. Which is just about possible given his DoB.
Ken
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Hello, Sorry my mistake. Married in 1893. Born Islington London. I have a couple of photographs this one and another big group shot. My Dad went to the museum in winchester on Tuesday and was told the group one is the 7th Hussars? Not sure which one comes first though.
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Hi
I'm posting again for any information about the war record of Harry Bailey born 1882 in Pontefract.
He served in Africa then in WW1 in the 10th Hussars. He stayed in France after the war on exhumation duty.We now believe he received the Croix de Guerre but do not know what for.
His elderly daughter would have a great surprise if I could find out for her for Christmas.
Bev
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HI! Suznor,
During the 1860's the 10th Hussars where stationed in Ireland.
I too had a ancestor who was in the Hussars. I found his military history by
checking the Muster Rolls held in the National Archives.
Cheers,
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Good morning.
Can you tell me where can I get hold of the military record of my great, great grandfather who was in the 10th Hussars. His name was James Cook/e (born 1833 in Ledbury, Herefordshire). In 1851 he was a private soldier at Maidstone Barracks. I can't find him on the census in 1861, but his wife of one year is lodging in Northampton. In 1871 he is a sargeant 10th Hussars at Kensington Barracks. His son, Alfred Thomas, born 1863 was in the 17th Hussars in 1891.
How did someone gain admission to the Hussars? Was it on merit or did you need contacts/financial backing?
Suzanne
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HI!,
I had an ancestor in the 10th Hussars. Like yours I found him in Norfolk in 1861, and could not find him after that.
I discovered that the 10th were posted to Ireland during the 1860's.
To find out more you need to visit the National Archives at Kew and check out the Muster Registers
for the 1860's.
Cheers.
Derek.
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Hi
I have just stumbled on this thread and see that there is some knowledge about the 'Tenth' here.
Briefly, I am trying to find a relative of my wife Rowland DOWNIE, b 1891 near Birmingham, England who, at the time of the 1911 census of England and Wales was a soldier serving in the 10th Royal Hussars when they were based at Rawalpindi, India - now Pakistan.
Can anyone suggest what may have happened to him after 1911?
I can find no record of him in any of the BMD indexes for the UK or Ireland, nothing on any of Ancestry's military sites Medal Rolls, Service documents etc, nor on any of the migration sites FindMyPast, Ancestry, Ellis Island. Would the regiment have kept records that were not transferred elsewhere within Army/War Office Departments?
H
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HI! Suznor,
The 10th. where stationed in Ireland during the 1860's.
You would need to contact the National Archives to access the
Muster Registers for any info.
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The 10th Hussars went to South Africa after India and were recalled to fight in France in WW1.
Two senarios I can think of are:
He served in the UK for the whole of WW1 and so did not qualify for WW1 medals. If he served out his enlistment his normal discharge would be after 1920 and therefore his record will still be with the MOD.
Or, he died in India or South Africa in which case, as it was before WW1, the War Office would not have kept his record. Some regiments kept their own copies so you should contact the regimental museum. I would also ask if they can tell you were they served in India and South Africa. But then you will have to dig out church registers.
Ken
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Ken
Thank you for your help. I have emailed the Curator at the museum for further advice.
H
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Hello all! I too have a GGrandfather that was in the 10th Hussars. William Charles Scott born 1885 in Haverill Suffolk. I have found him on the 1911 census as stationed in Rawalpindi, India and have successfully identified him in a year book from 1910 of the corps. He is in the photo of the signallers. I have not been able to find his enlistment papers and assume this would have happened after 1901 as he appears on the census. He marries in Canada in 1913. I believe he would have transfered to 18th Hussars and then the 1st Hussars. Does this mean his records were transferred to Canada?
I would advise everyone to have a look at this wonderful site that a man has created for his ancestor Major Roland Pillinger who lead the 10th for a considerable amount of time. There are many photos that might be of interest. http://www.majorpillinger.com/ (http://www.majorpillinger.com/)
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That's a very interesting site - i will post it as a sticky topic resource for future reference.
Milly
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I am researching a Thomas Ackley/Ackely/Ackeley etc who baptised three children in Loughborough Leics 1826-8 when he was described as Private, 10th Regiment of Hussars. He was originally from Loughborough, born c1794, and appears to have married in Guildford in 1822. I believe I've found him in 1841 enumerated as Oakley, working as a warehouseman with a number of children, three of whom are said to have been born in Ireland - one born 1823 (one of those baptised in Loughborough) and two more b 1833 and 1836.
Does anyone know if the movements of the 10th Hussars make any of the above feasible?
I can't find him in WO97
Many thanks in advance
David