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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: red40 on Saturday 15 August 09 10:14 BST (UK)
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Hello. Can anyone look up the following christening please? Henry Abbots Market Drayton 15 12 1822. On IGI Henry's parents are given as Thomas and Frances Abbots. But surprise surprise on Henry's marriage certificate he gives his fathers name as Piercy Pace. I have looked for a marriage date for Thomas Abbots and Frances hoping that might help but no success. Grateful for any help.
RED
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I've read your post on my Archives look up thread, and I assume that this is your other post to which you were referring to?
Could you post the full details from Henry's marriage certificate please?
:)
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While I'm waiting for the marriage certificate details, I've been looking at all the census and my mind boggles as to why Henry gives Piercy Pace as his father ??? ???
I've been able to find Piercy (born 1828) in the 1841 census with his parents, Sandford and Elizabeth, and siblings, then up to 1881, where he eventually ends up married to an Elizabeth Cross (Marriage on FreeBMD, Sep Q 1867, Wrexham, 11b, 462)
By the 1891 I see Elizabeth is at her sister's, Mary Povah, in Whitchurch. Elizabeth's status is still married but no sign of Piercy ???
I can't find any other Piercy Pace to fit the bill :-\
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This death seems to fit, although perhaps not the area you'd expect:
Deaths Sep 1887
PACE Piercy aged 59
Ormskirk 8b 538
Could he be a witness, recorded in the wrong place on the marriage cert? Unlikely, I admit.... ??? ???
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Rambler.....that's interesting ;) I forgot to check outside of Shropshire :-[
This has got me completely stumped. I did think about a witness etc. given that Henry and Piercy were of similar age. Would have been easier if Piercy's father was also a Piercy......that would have been more feasible ;D
Can't wait for Red to post cert details ;D
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Oh thank you so much for your interest. I didnt want to weigh you down with too much information and didnt want you to waste your time going over what i'd found. My mind is boggled too !!
Marriage certificate- Hodnet parish church 28 January 1851. Henry Abbotts, full age, bachelor, residence Peplow, Fathers name Piercy Pace Shopkeeper. Bride Mary Corser residence Peplow father William. Witnesses William Corser and Jane Prichard
As you see I followed the wrong Henry Abbots for a time!
Yes there is a Piercy Pace shopkeeper in Hodnet around 1822. Ive also searched the Pace Family History site on Google. There is a Piercy Pace on there b. 1779 ish that might fit and the younger one born the same year as Henry.
I'm so very grateful for your help
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Gosh!! There's a lot of info about the PACE family.
I also found another baptism in Hodnet:-
3 Jan 1781
Pierce Pace
Parents: Pierce Pace & Rebecca
Another possibility ???
Henry Abbots Market Drayton 15 12 1822. On IGI Henry's parents are given as Thomas and Frances Abbots
I wonder if Henry was the illegitimate child of Frances, and was given Thomas' surname when he was baptised, but gave his real father's name when he married ???
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Hi Lloydy. Yes I wondered about Frances too but both Henrys seem rather close in age. Ive checked their ages with d.o.d. and this verifies one b. 1822 and one b.1823 not impossible I know. Im still hopeful that the answer is in the Hodnet parish register .Many thanks for your time already.
Beryl
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Hi Beryl
As I have found this intriguing, I'll check out Henry's baptism tomorrow at the Archives, and if I get time I'll check marriages for Thomas and Frances, and any other details about Piercy Pace.
Fingers crossed ;D
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Ooh, Hope I can catch you before you go searching today . Thomas and Frances Abbots are the parents of another Henry Abbots and is the wrong family. Sorry this information is on my old link which I thought you had read. I'm devastated to think of you using your precious time. If anyone can contact Lloydy will they please let her know about this post.....
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Don't worry, I'm here, and I did check out Thomas and Frances.....but never mind, I still had a good day :D
I did check baptism's for "Henry's" in Market Drayton and also Hodnet (as the Pace family were in Hodnet), from 1820 - 1826 but nothing :( No illegitimate Henry's either ???
So, it's back to the drawing board.....but I do love a challenge ;D
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Many many thanks! I was so worried about wasting your time re the wrong Abbots family. But The positive is I can now rule Hodnet out so thats a big plus for me. Thank you. I will obviously have to search in wider area although Henry does appear to spend his life around this part of Shropshire. I wondered if there was an Abbots family on the 1841 census around the Hodnet area that he may have belonged to? As you can see I'm now grasping at straws..I too love a challenge. Gold star for you.
Beryl
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:)You're welcome :)
I've found Henry and his wife Mary in the 1851 census, with her parents William and Elizabeth. Have you got that or would you like the details?
His POB is showing as Salop, Crickmore.......the nearest I can find on google maps is a CRICKMERRY which is south of Market Drayton.
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You are so kind....Thank you. Yes I agree with Crickmery 1851. In 1891 he also gives pob. as Wistans Wigg which I think is Winstanswick. !841 hes in Bog Hall nr Hinstock. These places are close to each other thats why I thought of Hodnet parish. !871 and 1881 he gives pob. as Ercall Magna. Ive checked the very good "Ercall Magna A Journey in Tme" site but he doesnt appear to be there either. Like you said its back to the drawing board for me. A huge thank you.
Beryl
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This one is still bugging me ;D
I still think that he is baptised (somewhere >:() as the illegitimate son of "whoever!". His mother went on to marry a Mr Abbots and Henry used his name.
What were the names of Henry and Mary's children? Most of the time children were named after other relatives so we may find a tiny clue.
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Their children are Emma(who had no children) and Eliza (who m.Henry Jackson) their children are Mary-Ann,Emma-Jane,George and Albert Henry) As you can see I tried their grandchildren too We're obviously thinking on parallel lines.Today I tried the nearest five parishes to Crickmery on Hugh Wallis and Family Search sites but found nothing. I did see a Mary Abbots b.1830 Hinstock she seems to be on 1841 census index but I dont have access to that. Henry is also working in Hinstock 1841. I wondered if they were related. As I said yesterday I'm grasping at straws !
What more can I say other than a huge huge "Thank You"
Regards
Beryl
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I have access to the 1841.....will have a look now and see what I can find ;)
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1841
HO107 piece 899 folio 7/25 page 13
Long Pools, Hinstock
John Abbots 58, Not born in county
Sarah Abbots 35, born in county
Elizabeth Abbots 10, born in county
Daniel Hughes 17 Male Servant, born in county
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I can only see 2 Henry Abbotts in the 1841:
One with parents Thomas and Fanny, which you said isn't "yours", and the other as follows:-
HO107 piece 899 folio 6/3 page 1
Bog Hall, Childs Ercall
George Morgan 45 Farmer
Eliz Morgan 40
John Morgan 15
Mary Ann Morgan 13
Thos Simmister 20 M S
Henry Abbots 15 M S
Ellen Simmister 15 F S
John Naggington 13
All born in County
Bog Hall still exists today.....Hatton Road, Hinstock, Market Drayton
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This is interesting thank you. Yes the Henry in Bog Hall is mine. Surprised Bog Hall is still there I wonder if its history is farming. I see there is a gap of 23 years between the John and Sarah you found. It appears they had 2 daughters 1830 and 1831. I think perhaps Henry is not on the internet but I will keep searching. Fingers crossed. Many thanks once again.
Beryl
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Hi LLoydy. Re your suggestion Henrys illegitimacy. Ive looked at a huge amount of Henry baptisms with just a mothers name. I then checked the mothers surnames with Abbots marriages but there were no matches. I was glad of your suggestion so many thanks for your thoughts. Its possible the answer is in the parish registers that are not online yet. However I'll keep on trying and if I ever solve this problem you'll be the first to know! Thanks again
Beryl
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Hi
I am so pleased to see this post because i am making a documentary on a family that moved from wales and ended up in passing via Telford or what was before.
The humphreys family are who i am following - and I know that George and Eliza are the mum and dad to Elizabeth Morgan who went on to marry Evan humphreys.
I am not sure how Elizabeth ended in in Montgomeryshire but she was living in or around a rather lavish property called Brynygroed, Aberhafesp
I would like to know more about George, I know he owned a property called the Elms near shifnal and they moved into the property - Evan was a game keeper.
What kind of man was george and how wealthy was he? How many servants did he have.
Any info would be amazing!