RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Daisy Loo on Friday 14 August 09 21:42 BST (UK)
-
Hi everyone...
I have confirmed my HILLSDON/HILSDEN line back as far as 1720 - which is to say that 1720 was the last confirmed date of a marriage of Thomas Hillsdon to an Elizabeth Clisbey, in Waddesdon, Bucks. I have Thomas' death in 1769, where it is written in the Parish records that he was 78, making his birth in or around 1691.
But I can't find his birth. It appears he wwas one of the first Hillsdon's to live in Waddesdon, and I could find no record of where he was born...his marriage said he was of "this parish", but there are no births registered in Waddesdon before those of his own children. There are Hillsdon's in several areas of Bucks...and I have traced all the parish records of any Thomas Hillsdon (and spelling variant) in and around 1691 (going as far back as 1684 etc), but there are none.
There is of course the possibilty that he came from another county (there are Hillsdon's in neighbouring counties as well).
So the question is, how do I go on from here...or have I hit the proverbial brick wall?
-
Hi Daisy Loo
Know how you feel as I'm at a similar 'brick wall' myself with a marriage in 1766 and the groom being 'of this parish' but can't find the baptism. Have you checked to see if there's a gap in the registers for the period in question? There is a gap in my case which might just overlap with the possible baptism year. I don't know why the gap occurs though. If for some reason there was no vicar in the parish, perhaps the child was taken to the father's or mother's parish to be baptised. I don't know if that was a common occurrence - just guessing really.
I would definitely check the neighbouring counties. It's not a particularly common name (is it?), so perhaps you might strike lucky there.
Have you checked the BT's? Perhaps there might be more info there than in the register as I understand that can sometimes happen.
Good Luck
Chris
-
Chris's idea about checking if there is a gap in the parish records is a good one. In the parish of a large number of my ancestors, there is a 4 year gap because the vicar was banned from functioning normally while his case (for marrying 2 sisters) was heard in the Bishop's court. My ancestors appear to have been baptised in the next nearest parish where presumably the vicar stood in for the dodgy one.
However, when you get back that far, there's often gaps in the registers because the mice have eaten it or the writing is illegible or water has got in....
Have you investigated other parish chest-type records such as removal orders?
Angela
-
Thank you both for your answers...
Just 2 quick questions.... what are BT's (Chris)
and what are "removal orders"?
I'm pretty certain this isn't about a "gap" in a register...as the period I have looked at (1660-1760), the earliest birth recorded was 1720...which would mean no births for a Hillsdon in at least 80 years? Does that make sense?
Still, I'll look back on what I've got... and I'll have a feel in other counties :) cheers :)
Daisy Loo
-
Hi Daisy Loo
What I was thinking about was that your Thomas might possibly have been born in Hillsdon but just fallen into a small gap. I take your point that they must have moved in from somewhere else originally.
Could I just ask whether you've seen actual register copies or whether you've used an index or transcript? Also, was it the baptism register or the Bishops Transcripts (BTs!) - because sometimes one survives better than the other.
Removal orders go with settlement examinations - I don't know if your family was well off but if not, when a family moves parish that parish sometimes carries out an examination to see whether the family is likely to become a financial liability on the parish. If they look like they are, they can be 'removed' to their parish of origin. I think I've got that right but if not, someone will correct me. ::)
Where these things exist, they're invaluable. It might be worth having a look on the Access to Archives bit of the National Archive website to see what parish records exist for Waddesdon other than the registers, because some of them might give clues......
Good luck ;D
Angela
-
PS Did you have an ancestor James Hillsden in Waddesdon around 1813? If so, he appeared as a witness against the parish in the Easter quarter sessions because the parish wasn't maintaining the roads properly :o
-
Thanks Angela....you're being very helpful :)
I visited the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies, and did a search there, then looked up the parish records on microfiche for Waddesdon...I also have transcripts for all baptisms, marriages & burials from 1660 - 1860 for Buckinghamshire for the name HILLSDON and all variations.
I have them for generations in WADDESDON until my GGG-grandfather left to London...he resettled in High Wycombe etc etc.
How would I go about looking up removal orders? I am back in Ireland now.. ::)
-
Hi Daisy Loo
Looking at the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies website and also the National Archives, I would say that the former must have an awful lot of holdings that have not been catalogued - or at least not catalogued on-line. They do say that they won't do detailed research, but will answer basic questions so it might be worth emailing them to ask if there are any/many settlement examinations or removal orders relating to Waddesdon. If there are, it might be worth posting a query on the Bucks board asking if someone is visiting the centre and whether they could have a quick look through for your Hillsdons around 1700.
The only other thing that comes to mind is - When you were looking at the registers, did you make a note of the burials of any Hillsdons before Thomas? I was just thinking that if he relocated to Hillsdon as a child with his family, then the deaths of any Hillsdons in the first half of the 1700s might give you some other names to search for in the hope that you might find a group of baptisms that matched somewhere else.
It's not easy when you have to do this remotely - unfortunately none of my ancestors lived in the same area as I do and it doesn't half make things difficult ::)
-
BTs are Bishop's Transcripts. The Bishops copied the information from the parish registers, but they could have survived better and can give more information.
-
The only other thing that comes to mind is - When you were looking at the registers, did you make a note of the burials of any Hillsdons before Thomas? I was just thinking that if he relocated to Hillsdon as a child with his family, then the deaths of any Hillsdons in the first half of the 1700s might give you some other names to search for in the hope that you might find a group of baptisms that matched somewhere else.
Very good suggestion, and I got very excited...but I think over nothing...
There were only 4 burials:
22 Nov 1739 Sam HILLSDON son of Tho (son of my Thomas, who married in 1720)
13 Jul 1752 Mary HILLSDON daughter of Thos & Mary
3 Oct 1758 Eliz HILLSDON wife of Thos Snr
5 Sep 1759 Mary HILLSDON daughter of John & Ann
all these burials relate to the same immediate family.
and I have just realized, that the dates that the Bucks FHS have for the burial records are from 1735 - 1901 - so possibly there are no records before 1735? Yet the Baptisms are from 1541 - 1901 and the marriages from 1538 - 1905. Curious.
I shall email the Centre, and see why the burial records only go back that far :(
-
The burial register for Waddesdon held at the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies commence in 1538 and extend to 1974. If the information you have is from a Bucks FHS database search it should be remembered that the database is not complete. A list of parishes and dates covered for each database can be found on the Bucks FHS website at www.bucksfhs.org.uk but it should be remembered that the dates given are coverage and not the extent of the registers. For the latter you might find 'Buckinghamshire Church and Chapel Registers' by The Eureka Partnership (www.eurekapartnership.com) useful. This contains details of the location of original registers for Buckinghamshire churches and chapels and other places where records of births, baptisms, marriages, deaths and burials were kept. Also listed are the various hamlets within the county with details of their location.
Orpheus
-
That's very helpful Orpheus :)
So it looks like Daisy Loo's decision to email the Centre is right. If the transcriptions for burials start in 1735 but the actual registers are earlier, then possibly some kind person might be able to check the earlier registers for Hillsdons.
Fingers crossed......
Angela