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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: aspicer84 on Tuesday 11 August 09 07:32 BST (UK)

Title: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Tuesday 11 August 09 07:32 BST (UK)
Im after information on the SAWERS family of Victoria or NSW.

My grandmothers name was Beryl Eliza Sarah Sawers.  Her parents were Charlotte Anne Coffin and Henry James Sawers. 

I am hoping to make contact with someone who may have information on her (Beryl's) brothers and sisters, in the hope I may find a living relative here in Victoria!
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 August 09 08:19 BST (UK)
What was you grandmother's married name?  Could you tell us where and when she was born.  We can search the indexes for you but need a little more information.

You can search the NSW bdm's online
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 August 09 08:37 BST (UK)
Births in Victoria

SAWERS Beryl Eliza Sarah
Father Henry James Mother Charlotte Ann COFFIN
At Bendigo   1895   Reg#9512

SAWERS Harriet Robina
Father Henry James  Mother Charlotte Annie COFFIN
Port Melbourne  1889  Reg# 24969

SAWERS Thomas Cecil
Father Henry James  Mother Charlotte COFFIN
At Carlton  1891  REg#10184


Death
SAWERS Robert Ernest
Father Henry James  Mother Charlotte Annie COFFIN
1 year  at Prahran  1889  Reg#4256

Birth in NSW
2664/1892     
SAWERS  Norman J
Father Henry J  Mother Charlotte   
District Sydney


Cando
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 11 August 09 09:04 BST (UK)
Hi All,
I found this under spelling I have shown and order of given name I have shown.
Cecil Thomas SAWYERS enlisted for ww1 in 1915 and his record is digitised for viewing. He was 25+ in 1915 and born in Carlton.
There are a couple of odd things on his attestment.
He says both parents are dead, yet his next of kin is Mrs. Harry James, friend, of Gembrook.

There are some letters included in the file which may be of interest.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

Sue
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 August 09 12:33 BST (UK)
Marriage
SAWYERS Cecil Thomas
GRAY Myrtle Emmie
1924  Reg#5711

Deaths
SAWYERS Cecil Thomas
Father Henry  Mother Charlotte  COPPIN
Cheltenham  69 years  1960  Reg#33871

SAWYERS Myrtle Emmie
Father Gray William  Mother Elizabeth  BAXTER
At Parkville  76  1967  Reg#27058


Australian Electoral Roll  1936
Cecil and Myrtle are at Leongatha.  He is a farmer.

The death certificates would give you name of children.  You can purchase and immediately download - $17.50
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Cheers
Cando



Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 August 09 12:41 BST (UK)
Death  :-\

4272/1897
SAWYERS  Henry
Parents Unknown
District Broken Hill

Cando
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 August 09 12:50 BST (UK)
This may be Charlotte's birth.  May help find her death in the indexes and then perhaps a death cert will name all her children.

COFFIN Charlotte Anne
Father Thomas Stocks  Mother Sarah SMITH
At Emerald Hill 1866  Reg#21172

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 August 09 03:16 BST (UK)
Hi  All
 Cecil Thomas and Myrtle Emmie are memorialised at Springvale Botanical Cemetery.
You can view there location and details at
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php

Sue
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Wednesday 05 May 10 05:31 BST (UK)
Thank you for all your excellent information, apologies for not thanking you sooner!!!!

I am trying to find Charlotte Anne Sawers (nee coffin)'s death certificate yet doesnt seem to be anywhere when i search?

Attached is my grandmother's birth certificate.  She was born Beryl Eliza Sarah Sawers and must have been adopted when very young.  I would love to know why.  Perhaps her parents died as mentioned on her brother Cecils enlistment form??

My grandmother was adopted out to Charles Ephraim James and Isabella Westgarth.  We always thought her name was Dorothy Beryl James before she married my grandfather George Dillistone Spicer. 

The only reason i found out about the adoption is because on my grandmothers marriage certificate there were different names recorded as her parents!




Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Saturday 23 May 15 02:22 BST (UK)
Desperately trying to solve this puzzle....
my grandmothers brother Norman Stocks SAWERS and sister Harriet Robina SAWERS are simply a mystery. 

All I know for sure is their birth record, and they were both alive as children when my grandmother was born in April 1895, Bendigo. 

Their father (Henry James Sawers) left Australia (sometime between 1896 and 1904) and settled/ "boarded" with a married woman and her daughter in Manchester, UK.  They had 3 children together - Norah b.1905, Henry 1907, and Robert 1911.
(How could a father leave his children in another country never to return???

Their mother Charlotte is still a mystery, however there has been a recent rumour that Henry left Australia to avoid a murder charge!!  Perhaps thats why I can't find a death record for Charlotte or her 2 children Norman and Harriet?

I found it sad that when "mother and father both dead" was written on Cecil (the other sibling)'s enlistment card from WW1.  Why would they of been told/think that?

If anyone can help me in any way I would be so very grateful!!
I have attached the only photo of Henry James Sawers available.



 

My grandmother was born:

SAWERS Beryl Eliza Sarah
Father Henry James Mother Charlotte Ann COFFIN
At Bendigo   1895   Reg#9512

Her sister: - What happened to you Harriet?

SAWERS Harriet Robina
Father Henry James  Mother Charlotte Annie COFFIN
Port Melbourne  1889  Reg# 24969

Her brother - what happened to you Norman????
     
SAWERS  Norman J
Father Henry J  Mother Charlotte   
at  Sydney 1892      2664/1892

Her other brother (He served in WW1, lived in Leongatha and lived until 1960)

SAWERS Thomas Cecil
Father Henry James  Mother Charlotte COFFIN
At Carlton  1891  REg#10184
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 23 May 15 04:07 BST (UK)
aspicer84
Are you also aspicer, the original poster of this thread?

Quite confusing :P

Sue
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Saturday 23 May 15 17:24 BST (UK)
Hi Sue,

Yes I am, thought it might be good to be able to refer back to the original information.

Was that not the right process?  Sincere apologies if it was....
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: sarah on Wednesday 27 May 15 14:30 BST (UK)
Hi aspicer,

I will merge your two profiles together for you, welcome back :)

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 28 May 15 00:12 BST (UK)

"..my grandmothers brother Norman Stocks SAWERS and sister Harriet Robina SAWERS are simply a mystery". 

He is Norman J SAWERS at birth 1892. Where are you seeing him as Norman Stocks SAWERS?


"...Attached is my grandmother's birth certificate.  She was born Beryl Eliza Sarah Sawers "

We need to know all the information on this certificate please.


".....Their father (Henry James Sawers) left Australia (sometime between 1896 and 1904) and settled/ "boarded" with a married woman and her daughter in Manchester, UK.  They had 3 children together - Norah b.1905, Henry 1907, and Robert 1911.
(How could a father leave his children in another country never to return???

How have you identified this man, and this family, to be your Henry SAWERS?

Sydney Benevolent Asylum
SAWERS Charlotte Annie 26yrs         
admitted  15 Sep 1892      discharged 10 Oct 1892    26 yrs

SAWERS Cecil                 19m       
admitted  15 Sep 1892      discharged 10 Oct 1892     20 m

SAWERS Norman Stocks  3 weeks   
admitted  30 Sep 1892     discharged 10 Oct 1892   3weeks

Is this where you are seeing Norman with second given name Stocks....do you have the file from the asylum about their presence there?

If you have more information relevant to this family it would be useful to here to work with.

Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Thursday 28 May 15 05:50 BST (UK)
Thankyou so much for the reply!
I have attached Normans birth record which has his name as Norman Stocks Sawers born 1892 Sydney Benelovent asylum. Not sure why it had been recorded as 'Norman J Sawers'

It took me years to figure out that Henry Sawers was 'my henry' so I cross referenced every Henry Sawers born in Victoria around 1863 give or take 20 years either side and the only other Henry Sawers was born about 1875 and he sure confirmed didn't fit.
I then obtained Henry's marriage certificate to an Ann Derrick in Manchester, his father was correctly listed deceased Robert Sawers - occupation Stockbroker. I have recently been in contact with descendants of Henry, grandchildren and great grandchildren, all of which confirm he came from Australia. One chilling account was the 'murder' story which has me thoroughly engrossed in finding out the truth! Why else would you flee the country to a foreign land, leave your children behind and have them told you had died!?

I don't have the original documents from the benelovent asylum I wish I did!!

I even went to the prov and went through lots of old ward registers to see if Any of the children became wards of the state but came up empty handed...

If this theory is true, could it be possible that Henry murdered his wife Charlotte and 2 of their children Norman and Harriet, and got away with it???! Looked through trove newspaper articles and can't see any police warrants for his arrest??

I truly hope someone can help me get closer to finding out what in the world happened here to my family! X


Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: redmr2red on Thursday 28 May 15 08:17 BST (UK)
I have Sawers in my family tree (well adopted Sawers) in Tasmania and Bendigo, Victoria.

Robert and James Sawers came to Australia as orphan young lads after the death of their parents James Sawers and Elizabeth Alexander in Stirling, Scotland.  They came to Tasmania to be raised by their Aunt, Margaret Alexander (who married John Boothman).  The Boothmans had no children of their own and although the boys retained the name Sawers they saw themselves very much as Boothman boys.  They farmed Hope Island (about 65 acres) near Hobart, never married and lived to a ripe old age and were well known and respected in Tasmania.

Another brother John Sawers came to Australia later settling in Bendigo, Victoria making many trips to Tasmania to visit his brothers.  He married Louisa Williams and had 4 children. Margaret, John (middle name Boothman), Gladys and Albert, all long since passed away.

There may be a connection way back in Scotland.

Red.

Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Thursday 28 May 15 09:27 BST (UK)
What a nice story Red, Thankyou. Perhaps there may be a connection! Henry James Sawers father was Robert Sawers born 1831 Linlithgowshire Scotland son of James Sawers b.1776 Cumbernauld and Janet Marshall b. 1778 Denny Stirlingshire. Robert had siblings

George Sawers
Agnes Sawers
Henry Sawers
Margreat Hay Sawers

I'm still unsure of James and Janet's death as Scottish records are just as confusing as they are expensive!

Wierd thing was too that Robert listed his fathers name as David and not James! Perhaps as he would have died when he was a baby and never really knew him? As for Janet I really don't know when/how she died... Another mystery to be solved!

I must say putting together the jigsaw of the past excited me all the same! X
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Saturday 30 May 15 03:06 BST (UK)
Dear Wivenhoe,
 
"...Attached is my grandmother's birth certificate.  She was born Beryl Eliza Sarah Sawers "

We need to know all the information on this certificate please.

Please see the record attached and transcription below

BIRTH RECORD

Name: Beryl Eliza Sarah SAWERS
Born 25 April 1895
Bendigo Lying-in Hospital

Father Henry James Sawers, Clerk, 33 years old,Kangaroo Flat, Bendigo
Mother  Charlotte Anne Sawers formally COFFIN, 28 years old, South Melbourne

Married 17 December 1886 Sydney, New South Wales

Siblings: Ernest Robert - dead
             Harriet Robina - 5 years
             Thomas Cecil - 4 years
             Norman Stocks - 1 year

Informant: "???" - Authorised Agent - Barnard Street Bendigo
Doctor - Dr James Boyd and Miss Kittern


I hope this information might assist in finding out anything you can, particularly on Harriet and Norman....

Thanks so much for your help!  Look forward to your response :)

Amy


Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Sunday 07 June 15 04:45 BST (UK)
I found a record that has an H J Sawers sailing on a vessell called the 'Verajean' from New South Wales to Macassar as a steward in October 1900.

I'm wondering if this might of been 'my Henry James Sawers' - maybe was his way to get to Manchester UK. 

South Wales, Australia, Registers of Seamen, 1859-1936 Immigration & Travel

Does anyone know how do I go about finding out further info on this record? 






Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: clancam37 on Sunday 07 June 15 05:19 BST (UK)
Have you checked the early Australia Electoral Rolls 1903 to 1980 on ancestry.com.au.
If you can, check "Find MY past" site for mariners as well.
Also try "TROVE" site for early newspaper reference - NSW papers would cover that period.
Kind regards
clancam37.
I found a record that has an H J Sawers sailing on a vessell called the 'Verajean' from New South Wales to Macassar as a steward in October 1900.

I'm wondering if this might of been 'my Henry James Sawers' - maybe was his way to get to Manchester UK. 

South Wales, Australia, Registers of Seamen, 1859-1936 Immigration & Travel

Does anyone know how do I go about finding out further info on this record?
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: rosball on Sunday 07 June 15 11:56 BST (UK)
There is the site Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
which is a work in progress.

The Verajean arrived in Sydney from Table Bay on 7 Aug 1900.

The next trip departing Sydney has not been transcribed yet.  However you can offer to transcribe the trip (and commit to transcribe some others) if you contact the owner of the site.  The info that is available for mariners is usually their age and place of origin.

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: aspicer84 on Friday 12 June 15 12:52 BST (UK)
Thankyou so much for that, I have emailed them and asked if they can send me the documents to transcribe.  I'm hoping if I can access the record it might give me some info that will confirm if H.J Sawers is my great grandfather!

Much appreciated!
Title: Re: SAWERS family NSW and Vic
Post by: RupertH on Sunday 24 January 21 03:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Amy.

Although this is an old thread, I hope that you get a notification of a new reply.
Firstly, let me introduce myself; my name is Rupert and I live in Perth WA with my wife Amanda. We emigrated from the UK and have been here for 8 years now.

Earlier this week myself and my wife were speaking to my mum in the UK and the conversation got round to how my wife jokingly tells people that my Great Grandfather was an Australian from Bendigo and that I’m just returning to my roots. This led to my mum asking if I could find any more about her Grandfather Henry James Sawers.

A quick Google search brought me here! My mother (Ann) is the 4th daughter of Norah Crehan (born Sawers) who was the daughter of Henry James Sawers and Ann Sawers (born Berry). Mum told me how her mum used to tell her about how her dad came from Kangaroo Flats in Bendigo.
I’ve got to say that the research you have done is fantastic and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading about the Aussie side of the family.

I’m not sure if I can give you anymore information in your research but if you have any questions, I can ask the folks back home. One thing I did find out that you may not be aware of was that Henry met Ann in the Seamen’s Hospital in Salford, this would tie in with him working on ships.

Anyway, just thought I’d say hi and thanks for all the hard work you did.