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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: marcuswraight on Saturday 08 August 09 19:42 BST (UK)
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While researching my grandfather's wartime past in the Army Fire Service, I found out that he was almost certainly involved in a major fire in Hoboken, Netherlands, in about January 1944 at a fuel depot. By all accounts it was absolutely HUGE. I have been looking on the internet for any pictures or first hand accounts, or even organisations there that might be able to help, but my searches are swamped by Hoboken, New Jersey - and attempts to filter out the dross with the tools on Google, I have the grand total of nothing more than I did not know already.
For anyone interested, I have a 1966 history of the Army Fire Service that was deposited at the National Archives as a quid pro quo, but would love to see any pictures or info.
Kindest regards
Marcus
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Hoboken is a suburb of Rotterdam and Rotterdam was not liberated until May 1945, so no Allied units would have been involved in fire-fighting duties in Jan 1944
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Er, the Hoboken I know is a suburb of Antwerp. Liberated in September 1944, Antwerp went on to be savaged by V-Weapons into early 1945, so a fuel depot fire is quite possible. I see what you mean by trying to screen out Hoboken USA from searches!
Dave
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Correction - it was Jan 1945. My fault.
This date came from an official Army Fire Service history deposited at the National Archives.
Marcus
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Read through this.....may be something of interest.
http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number13588.asp
Hibee
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Hibee,
brilliant link!
Dave
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Hello Marcus,
I am interested in your research of your grandfather's WW2 service in Belgium.
Of the fire in Hoboken you mention 'oil depot' -could it mean oil refinery?
I was in the Merchant Navy and was at Hoboken on New Years Eve 1944 in the tanker Empire Unity.
Late evening a V2 struck a petrol storage tank and caused a huge fire.
We had to leave the jetty before the flames reached the ship.
Yours is the first time I have seen mention of Hoboken and fires.
Have you gained any more information on this incident?
Best regards
Stan
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Great to hear from someone who was actually there! My grandfather was in the AFS and visited The Netherlands when I was 8 to go back to the family he was billeted with. But I am compiling a book about him and wanted to show what kind of things he went through in the war - this being one. There must be pictures around somewhere because from the description I have it must have been enormous.
In the National Archives is a record of AFS history (it is a document around 10 pages), written in the sixties I think and I have a copy. It certainly mentions Hoboken, and during that visit I definitely remember my grandfather talking about it - though other relatives don't recall him mentioning it when he was at home.
Incidently, in case you can help me on this too and you were in the AFS, he only ever once spoke about it but told my uncle (his son) that he had to go to Bergen Belsen in the aftermath of its liberation, but missing diaries mean I cannot verify that.
Anyway, let me know what you need and if you can help me too!
Marcus
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Marcus,
Thankyou for your reply.
I was not in AFS -I was in the Merchant Navy from 1936 to 1956 and when I left the sea I was a ships rigger for 30 years in the Thames area so my working life was 50 years with ships.
Of Hoboken - when we got clear of the jetty we grounded on the river bank opposite and were there all night.
The fire in the refinery attracted German bombers and they dropped many bombs which destroyed some of the refinery. A few bombs exploded in the mud around my ship - it was a very uncomfortable night.
The front line was only 40 miles from there.
Like yourself I want to know more about it and hopefully to see photos of it.
So it seems I was within a mile of your grandfather 65 years ago!!
Keep researching Marcus - hopefully we will get results one day.
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Almost a year later from our posts, I was trawling through my back issues of After The Battle Magazine and came across an article "Antwerp City of Sudden Death" in issue 57.
As well as mentioning an attack on New Year's Eve, there is mention of 19 Jan 45 - 3 storage tanks destroyed, burning for 48 hours. 9 dead, 20 injured. 14 Feb 45 - fires quickly extinguished. 13 dead, 10 injured.
Hope this is of interest.
Dave
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Flakdodger,
That is absolutely brilliant and while I'd love to see photos, it is information that is priceless. I would be really interested in seeing that. I've sent you a message.
Regards
Marcus
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Following on from Dave's message, found the same (I think) article online:
http://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/antwerp.html
Hope that's of some help :)
Prue
P.S. Try searching for 1944 fire antwerp - that's what I did, and you don't get nearly as many US links coming up! Here's another article (PDF) that you might find interesting:
http://sill-www.army.mil/firesbulletin/2008/jan_feb_2008/Jan_Feb_2008_pages_42_45.pdf
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Hello Marcus and Pru,
Marcus - I will scan the article to you, thanks for the PM. Sorry to leave you in suspenders, can I do this at the weekend? I tend only to be able to grab a couple of hours on-line of a weekday evening...and it is never enough.
Pru - thanks for two very interesting links! In fact the article I have for Marcus is the Reference: Achiel Rely, After the Battle 57, 1987
There is certainly more to read in the article you have found.
Some of the illustrations are common to both, and some are very explicit in their portrayal of the dead.
As a Londoner, the V-weapon blitz is part of my heritage. It was only in later life, finding family history links to the Antwerp area, that their V-Weapon assault caught my interest.
Surely, the purple prose 'City of Sudden Death' is not misplaced.
Dave
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Hi
During WW2 the Pioneer Corps and the RASC ran Fire Fighting Companies, also after liberation the Pioneer Corps ran Belsen for nearly two months which leads me to think that your relative was a Pioneer. Have you got his service number or full name and date of birth and I can check our records. During the last few years the Royal Pioneer Corps have built up a data base of over 700,000 who served in the Corps during WW2.
Regards
Norman Brown
Controller RPC Associaiton
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Hi Marcus
My Dad, Len Goring, was in Belgium with the Army Fire Service towards the end of the war. He rarely spoke about his time in Belgium but he did tell us about the hoses freezing because it was so cold, and also about trying to help the local people who had no water. I am currently trying to contact a Belgium family from Hoboken who my Dad became friendly with. I have some photos that you might be interested in. I would love to hear any other information you might have.
Kathy