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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Lee_T on Wednesday 05 August 09 22:00 BST (UK)
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May as well start another thread for discussion .....
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Loved the will!
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One of the best episodes so far. I don't have any personal interest in Scottish History but that episode was both interesting and informative and was not set in the 20th century for once.
the will was fantastic. ;D
Kerry
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This one was interesting but not as enjoyable as others imho, although I do think David Mitchell has a great on screen prescence ~ funny without being rude.
I thought he seemed somewhat detached from ancestors but then he did explain he wasn't an emotional person!
Yeah, the will was amazing! Genuinely funny and Mitchell thought it was too!
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Thoroughly enjoyed this episode and the way that parts from the will were read by his rellie only added to it.
OR
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I own up to being a big fan of David Mitchell and I thought it was a great programme - John Forbes' poor wife! no wonder she turned to the bottle ;D
BTW I got a little lost on it but did I remember seeing on the 1861 census that she was born in London? It must have been a huge culture shock if she was bought up there to find herself living in the very alien culture of Skye.
Carole
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I enjoyed it very much, the history was interesting and the scenery lovely! The will was just the best..
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This series has been really good with a good variety of stories.
I haven't heard of most of the 'celebrities' (including David Mitchell) :o
Good to see them using an internet forum to help ;)
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Recorded again - Midsomer Murders takes priority for my husband ::) but I'm looking forward to it, especially if there is Scottish scenery, especially Skye where we spent a week earlier this summer.
Lizzie
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This was a good episode with insights, surprises and beautiful scenery.
However I don't think it is fair to judge John Forbes by present day standards, and we don't know what his wife had done to have him write his will the way he did. Don't forget, the husband was supposed in those days to be the head of the family and the master of the house. His children were charged with looking after her. Not bad, just a man of his time.
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It must have been a huge culture shock if she was bought up there to find herself living in the very alien culture of Skye.
There are plenty of urban types who dream of getting away from it all and moving to a remote Scottish island and I doubt if it was any different in Victorian times.
he wasn't an emotional person!
Thank goodness for that and how refreshing after the previous two blubber queens!
I found the program entertaining, which is not a bad thing.
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I think David Mitchell would make a lovely preacher...... I was falling asleep listening to him !
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Loved the Broadband problem on Skye. The woman, who held the box of Kirk Session Records, is sitting on every Family Historian's dream.
John Forbes, pillar of the community, let himself down in the end, by being extremely judgmental about his long suffering wife.
Great programme.
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I think the David Tennant episode was a beauty.
He was enthusiastic about following all the leads, and was really funny in some parts. (Specially when he was in an old church, with missing floorboards and jumped down to have a good look at some human bones, particularly the skulls, till he realised they may have been some of his ancestors, and put them back very smartly).
He really seemed to enjoy the whole experience, and here in "Oz" we enjoyed watching him. (Being Dr. Who fans of course).
Eddo
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I am so missing the show, as I saw the first two episodes while in Yorkshire last month. Wish I could get the programm over here in Canada. Oh, know my cousin will be watching it.
Cheers
anne
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I own up to being a big fan of David Mitchell and I thought it was a great programme - John Forbes' poor wife! no wonder she turned to the bottle ;D
BTW I got a little lost on it but did I remember seeing on the 1861 census that she was born in London? It must have been a huge culture shock if she was bought up there to find herself living in the very alien culture of Skye.
Carole
I noticed that too Carole and wish we could have learnt more about why she ended up there and how!
Kerry
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For anyone who doesn't know who David Mitchell is can I suggest the Homeopathic A&E sketch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 from the last series of That Mitchell and Webb Look?
Carole
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I'm looking forward to it, especially if there is Scottish scenery
Lizzie
You won't be disappointed Lizzie. This episode was a good contrast with previous ones. It was interesting to find ancestors who weren't 'victims' - so no need for tears!
The will made me laugh out loud - you could almost picture the grumpy old man when he was writing it. Just hope the children had more compassion, and really did look after their mother. This was one of those occasions where I wanted to know more - how long did the mother live for, and where did she die (in her children's home, or cast into the workhouse?) and what did she die of (did she drink herself to death?).
Well, David Mitchell was the only celebrity I've heard of. Who's next week?
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It's Kim Cattrall next week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m42gr
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I was interested in how those 3 Skye girls/women ended up working in a mill in Cheshire. For those of us with Lancashire and Cheshire millworkers in our trees, I'm sure we all wonder how they came to be there from more distant parts of the UK. Just like today's 'labour importers', I doubt whether the records were kept.
I wonder what occupation the labour importers ('middlemen') put in the censuses as their occupation too.
Fiona
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I was interested in how those 3 Skye girls/women ended up working in a mill in Cheshire. For those of us with Lancashire and Cheshire millworkers in our trees, I'm sure we all wonder how they came to be there from more distant parts of the UK. Just like today's 'labour importers', I doubt whether the records were kept.
I wonder what occupation the labour importers ('middlemen') put in the censuses as their occupation too.
Fiona
Yes, but what is the difference between these girls and our great-grandmothers who worked for the upper and middle classes as live-in domestic servants, often hundreds of miles from home ?
Just the fact that they were drafted in to industry, and possibly the contract conditions, maybe ?
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I'm sure we all wonder how they came to be there from more distant parts of the UK.
In the Jeremy Paxman edition of WDYTYA his ancestors who had been subsisting of parish relief in rural East Anglia were forced to go to Manchester to work in the mills, otherwise their parish relief would be withdrawn.
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What a wonderful series this has been, I've really enjoyed it! I think perhaps it may be because the celebrities in this series are of a younger generation than previously.
Goofy
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I remember the Paxman one. My comment in this instance was a reflection of the fact that I had not previously known of the existence of 'labour importers' with promises of a good life and education etc.
I agree, Nick, that domestic servants could very much be in the same boat in terms of how mill workers and servants could be let down by promises of a better life and being far away from their families.
Actually, reading Elizabeth Gaskell novels, I believe domestic labour was a problem for the (growing) middle and upper classes in Manchester - and probably elsewhere as well. Mills offered more money often because the mill owners were not always responsible for their accommodation (although they might having housing to rent out). From the point of view of the millworkers, this could mean greater freedom.
The 'new' aspect of the 'labour importers' was probably to do with the sheer numbers of mill workers needed. A glut of workers in mill areas also meant that the mills were not dependent on the increasingly millitant millworkers who were demanding higher wages and better conditions.
Fiona
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As Downside mentioned there was a scheme to move the parish poor to other areas where work was readily available. Suffolk was a part of that New Poor Law set up in the 1830s. The choice was Workhouse or move north with guaranteed housing and work.
It was a way of getting people to move to Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cheshire to work in the cotton mills and woollen industry where there were jobs. It was a sort of 'forced migration'. The scheme did not last very long due to the decline in the Cotton and Woollen industries.
I got the impression that there were men on the island working to find youg women for the Mills on the mainland. Telling their families of how well they would be treated and given education and work, when they were actually working long hours with little benefit.
I enjoyed last night's programme and found the Scottish information interesting having been searching in England (with short forays into Ireland and USA) for nearly forty years. Always thought my Wilson connection would lead me to Scotland instead that is the Irish/American line.
Pat ...
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good episode.. it seemed like he came up with most of the questions on the spot for the on-screen researchers.
I liked the scene in the grave yard - I'm certain they just sent him there and he started looking around for the old church and his ggg-grandfathers headstone himself.
only ever seen him on QI but will watch out for him in other programs from now on...
Shane
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This episode did seem less staged. I wonder if he really did take the lady in the manse by complete surprise? I was quite horrified to see that Forbes's Parish register is in private hands. Surely that should be in an archive somewher (it didn't look like a copy).
I like David Mitchell anyway, so that probably helped (I've watched 'Peep Show').
That woman Annie from the Sutherland estate - I thought I recognised her and I can now place her. She was my tutor in Second year at Aberdeen Uni. Nice to see she is doing well for herself...
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This episode did seem less staged. I wonder if he really did take the lady in the manse by complete surprise?
Not unless by some weird coincidence she was having a BBC camera crew to tea ! ;D
They were already inside when she let him in :)
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Were they? I didn't notice that.
They were outside when she answered the door at least.
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I was quite horrified to see that Forbes's Parish register is in private hands. Surely that should be in an archive somewher (it didn't look like a copy).
I thought exactly the same. Having searched unsuccessfully for the kirk sessions for my family's village (they haven't survived) I was horrified that an individual could hang on to such valuable historical information. It wasn't a private diary, but a public document of great historical interest. I wonder if it is normally kept in the local archives, and just lent out for the programme? I hope so
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Were they? I didn't notice that.
They were outside when she answered the door at least.
I don't think these things are ever filmed "live" - hair and makeup has to be done first. Heir Hunters is exactly the same. I must admit that the old lady's surprised look was better than most :)
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I was quite horrified to see that Forbes's Parish register is in private hands. Surely that should be in an archive somewher (it didn't look like a copy).
I thought exactly the same. Having searched unsuccessfully for the kirk sessions for my family's village (they haven't survived) I horrified that an individual could hang on to such valuable historical information. It wasn't a private diary, but a public document of great historical interest. I wonder if it is normally kept in the local archives, and just lent out for the programme? I hope so
I know that most Kirk Session records are held centrally (where they are available). I can assure you, information like that would not be let out of any Library. If it were kept in a library, it would be reference only - not even BBC programming could change that.
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Only my opinion but I liked parts of it, but there were bits I thought could be better; usual complaint not enough following of unanswered questions.....not enough time in an hour? Then leave the sheep feeding to country file, or that ITV series where celebs did their ancestors jobs.
Also didn't like where if memory serves me correctly he said something like "someone else in the family has done the dates and places of the tree" that's the likes of you and me he's talking about. Where's this persons credit and thanks? It's them if still alive who should have been taken up to the family homeland.
While I'm at it was I the only one to think he's probably rich enough to "repair" the old family home of Ribigill, and turn it into a museum, and get people up to see beautiful Ben Loyal and visit Tongue? Not that I'm telling him how to spend his well earned money, but how about a Gaelic college David? haha
As for the Kirk session minutes, I wish that all the owners of former manses who find these priceless (for genealogists and historians) documents in their "garage" as the lady said she had, could hand them on to the NAS for proper care and keeping. And I wish that NAS could get them digitalised (I think most are) and make them accessable on the web, not everybody can get to Edinburgh.
A few gripes but so far a great series.
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I'm afraid I am in the minority on this; I thought the episode was (apart from the scenery) somewhat dull and the individuals mentioned simply didn't come to life as they have in previous episodes.
Mark
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Must confess, I didn't see this episode, but I'm a huge mitchell fan and intend to very soon (incidentally, someone on here said that he was funny without being rude, all I can say to that is havde you seen him on Mock the Week? very rude and just the way i like it)
What did everyone think of Davina McCall? I thought she seemed obsessed with wanting her ancestors to be Extra special extraordinary achieving Big Cheeses. Which is why it was slightly disheartening to discover that they were.
If her ancestors had been a blacksmith and a general labourer, I wonder how she would have reacted?
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I gather John Forbes had an illegitimate daughter while married and was probably exiled to Skye, so no wonder his wife turned to the drink. I wish both the Mitchell side and the Forbes side was explored a bit further back. Where did the Mitchell family come from? They didn't originate in Sunderland. And where other than Inverness did John Forbes come from.
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I didn't
The older I get, the more I realise, The less I know.
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I gather John Forbes had an illegitimate daughter while married and was probably exiled to Skye, so no wonder his wife turned to the drink. I wish both the Mitchell side and the Forbes side was explored a bit further back. Where did the Mitchell family come from? They didn't originate in Sunderland. And where other than Inverness did John Forbes come from.
I didn't think I would enjoy it but did- the will particularly!
However, I too wondered where the Mitchells came from? They were farming there from mid 1830s but I was left wondering if they were local anyway or brought in to farm from elsewhere and therefore he may not be from there at all.
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I didn't think much of this episode, partly because apart from being a comedian I have no idea who David Mitchell is. The only interesting part for me was the Will which was superb, he really didn't think much of his wife.
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I thought this was a fantastic episode!
David Mitchell seemed to have genuine questions of his own, and the programme didn't follow what has become the usual formula. I'm bored of the subject visiting archives of one kind or another and talking to experts, and just reacting to what they tell him or her.
David Mitchell appeared much more engaged in the process of finding out, and was kept centre stage in a more realistic looking way. And the will!
Anne
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I enjoyed this episode very much. The scenery was breathtaking and the weather kind to him!
There was funny moments...the reading of the will and the lack of broadband on Skye along with his odd comments here and there, made it even more engaging to view.
I do hope that the lady from the Manse allows the documents she found in her garage to be put in the hands of the archives for others to read. Im sure they should belong with the experts rather than put back to collect dust. What a shame. I wonder if the National Archives will request it?
Hazel
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This was definately the funniest episode for a good while. No-one seems to have mentioned the honeymoon diary, the last entry made me laugh out loud. I think the less weepy episodes tend to be more informative, the subject spends less time emoting and more time asking questions ( with the possible exception of Graham Norton- who I am a fan of but who really didn't seem to fully engage in the search).
By the way, in case any of you have forgotten or didn't know, you can view extra footage from the show via the WDYTYA magazine website.
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A very enjoyable episode
I didn't know who he was before the episode, has a vaguely familiar face
Also I have never heard for Kim Cattrall
It was good that they built up the minister, then delivered the coup de grace with the will
Yes it would have been great to know more of his wife who clearly liked a wee dram.
Bob
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Kim Cattrall is most famous for "Sex and the City", but she has made quite a few films.
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I'm afraid I am in the minority on this; I thought the episode was (apart from the scenery) somewhat dull and the individuals mentioned simply didn't come to life as they have in previous episodes.
Mark
I agree. Loved the scenery, quite liked David, but it was all a bit uninspiring! Like last week when there were too many planes; this week there were just too many sheep.
Timely reminder of the dangers of over zealous religious types though.
I did, however, laugh out loud (as did David) at the Manse lady's comment about the Jeremy Kyle Show.
Jill
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Would be nice for them to concentrate on 'common' people. They touched on it with Chris Moyles, but didn't go into much depth. Apart from that it's all been about wealthy ancestors this series.
Andrew
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Would be nice for them to concentrate on 'common' people. They touched on it with Chris Moyles, but didn't go into much depth. Apart from that it's all been about wealthy ancestors this series.
Andrew
careful Andrew protest to much and you have people saying your not allowed to have an opinion lol
as you say would be good to see the "common people" and the amount of people who say they have never heard of these so called stars shows it would be just as well watched whoever was on it, as long as they got the format correct.
I also think the first couple of series encouraged so many people to take up searching their own, i am not sure the last couple would have that same effect, we all watch it because we remember how good they were,
the art of a good programme is leaving you wanting more, but as someone else mentioned part of the wanting more would be to know the full story behind the people and the questions unanswered which is not good tv but bloody annoying lol
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Hi
I really enjoyed this. I like David Mitchell and find him very funny especially on peep show. The scenery was amazing in particular the mountain view from the farm if i had the money that is where i would love to stay.
I remember being taught about the highland clearances at school and i was glad it showed a bit about how awful it was for the people thrown out of there homes. I also loved the way John Forbes looked like the most heroic minister only to find out that he had a darker cruel side to him too the will made me laugh. I also enjoyed the sessions book the ones writting it seemed more sordid going into all the details they could than the people they were judging who were obviously doing what everyone else secretly wanted too. ;D
I think Mitchell came accross as interested and asked plenty of questions and it was good to see he found humour in the stories which made it more easy going other than lots of crying which is fine too but can get a bit much.
Louise :D
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I enjoyed the programme but more for the location as this is where I grew up. :)
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If her ancestors had been a blacksmith and a general labourer, I wonder how she would have reacted?
If Davina McCall's ancestors had been a blacksmith and a general labourer she'd never have got onto the show in the first place. She'd have gone the way of Michael Parkinson!
I enjoyed this one. Lots of interesting moments, and lots of new material here. I thought the lady in the manse really was much better at the amateur dramatics that the 'extras' are required to do..."Act surprised", "Pretend this is the first time you've met" and all that. I, too, loved their reaction to the 'Jeremy Kyle' session records.
The will was marvellous! How utterly revealing that was. I wish we had other information to shed light on that relationship. Was he really the holier-than-thou prig that he sounded? Had his wife pushed him to his limit by her behaviour? Had she been a bright young girl who was ground down by years of childbirth and tending her husband's ego? Those are the things I always want to know, but those are the things you can seldom find out.
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Like several others, I had no idea who this 'celebrity' is (still don't know !) ... but the scenery was superb.
The will was awful - and very amusing ! What a way to treat his wife. What a dreadful minister that man must have been ... judgmental and vindictive ... NOT a good example to his 'flock' ... but then they probably never saw that side of him.
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NOT a good example to his 'flock' ... but then they probably never saw that side of him.
The Kirk Session minutes would suggest otherwise - particularly the practice of checking young women to ensure that they had not had pre-marital sex. Thats just what the ministry was like back then, and would probably have happend regardless of who held the charge at Skye though.
PS. One of my favourites from Mitchell and Webb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO5WoLnOOlU
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Hi
The Kirk Sessions bit made me wonder how seriously these things were taken. Some of the more advanced women in my tree came from 19th century Fife and I can see no sign of the Kirk inhibiting their activities.
all the best
Gobbo
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I think the Rev was a bit of a voyeur ! And it is being judgmental to check the virginity or otherwise of the young women ... that was their business, and their prospective husbands, not his !
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He was certainly no saint. A quick google search reveals that he had two illegitimate children (a son and a daughter) - born to other women after his marriage.
A bit of a hypocrite.
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Wasn't there a calypso in the ? 60's ... called 'Shame and Scandal in the Family' ?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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A quick google search reveals that he had two illegitimate children (a son and a daughter) - born to other women after his marriage.
Why on earth didn't they include that in the programme? They could have left out a bit of the rather repetitive "I wonder why Jimmy and George left the farm" bit and gone into that instead. I'd have thought that would have been right up WDYTYA's street, anyway. They seem to like the scandals. Maybe their researchers didn't find it!
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the man was indeed a terrible hypocrite itseems behind his holier than thou attitude he enjoyed prying into the sex lives of others then looking down on them while doing the same thing. At least these poor women probably new how to enjoy themselves but i do feel so sorry for them being violated the way they were just for giving into natural feelings. I do wish they told more of the story of the darker side of Forbes.
Windsor i love that german clip too. If you ever get the chance to se Mitchell and Webb live you should they are brilliant :D
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I am just always amazed that the families seem to pull diaries and photos out that have never been seen by the 'celebs' before, im lucky in that I still have most of my Grandparents around to ask stuff...but even they have very few if any photos to show of their parents, let alone their grandparents.
Incidentaly...did anyone catch which forum he went onto to ask about his rellies to get such a quick reply?
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Hi
Before we blacken the name of the minister too much can we please check the source of the story about the illegitimate daughters. I could not find it with a quick google but there were an awful lot of people called John Forbes.
All the best
Gobbo
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Hi
Before we blacken the name of the minister too much can we please check the source of the story about the illegitimate daughters. I could not find it with a quick google but there were an awful lot of people called John Forbes.
All the best
Gobbo
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?p=32023
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The website was talkingscot.com
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Hi
Before we blacken the name of the minister too much can we please check the source of the story about the illegitimate daughters. I could not find it with a quick google but there were an awful lot of people called John Forbes.
All the best
Gobbo
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?p=32023
But that doesn't give any actual documentary evidence for these supposed illegitimate children.
Carole
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Hi
Before we blacken the name of the minister too much can we please check the source of the story about the illegitimate daughters. I could not find it with a quick google but there were an awful lot of people called John Forbes.
All the best
Gobbo
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?p=32023
But that doesn't give any actual documentary evidence for these supposed illegitimate children.
Carole
I'm willing to take their word for it.
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Just watched the programme ::) I'm sure David Mitchell would have thought it hilarious if John Forbes had been shown to father illegitimate children. Said John seemed to me a typical Northern hypocritical man of the do as I say, not as I do kind - and I'm speaking as a Northerner. No wonder his poor wife took to drink so would I ;D
Lizzie
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I would like some harder evidence of the existence of the illegitimate children. At the moment the story is a bit like the stories about Gladstone and his rescues of fallen women.
Of course if the story is true then my closest modern analogy would be the American TV pastors, who become very rich peddling fundamentalist Christianity and when caught out publicly confess, repent and make even more money.
all the best
Gobbo
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First rule of genealogy - never take anyone's word for it! ;D
Carole
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"was I the only one to think he's probably rich enough to "repair" the old family home of Ribigill, "
If I remember rightly the house and land did not belong to his family, they were tenant farmers of the Sutherland Estate. The Sutherland Estate sold Ribigill, no mention was made of who owns it now.
As for the Kirk Sessions minutes, did the lady in question not say she'd found lots of other documents/papers as well.........I just hope someone will contact her and suggest that they are put into safe keeping where others might enjoy or use them for research.
It does however make you wonder how many people have things like this tucked away... ;D anyone got the ten years worth (1780-90) of baptism registers for St Mary Stratford le Bow ;D. Could you all please have a look in the attic, the shed/garage, under the stairs........ this is now the third line in my family tree that has come to a dead end because records are thought to be lost, missing or destroyed :'(
Suey
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"was I the only one to think he's probably rich enough to "repair" the old family home of Ribigill, "
If I remember rightly the house and land did not belong to his family, they were tenant farmers of the Sutherland Estate. The Sutherland Estate sold Ribigill, no mention was made of who owns it now.
As for the Kirk Sessions minutes, did the lady in question not say she'd found lots of other documents/papers as well.........I just hope someone will contact her and suggest that they are put into safe keeping where others might enjoy or use them for research.
It does however make you wonder how many people have things like this tucked away... ;D anyone got the ten years worth (1780-90) of baptism registers for St Mary Stratford le Bow ;D. Could you all please have a look in the attic, the shed/garage, under the stairs........ this is now the third line in my family tree that has come to a dead end because records are thought to be lost, missing or destroyed :'(
Suey
I think people could have all kinds of records without even knowing it ............ I did.
My grandad was always involved in the churches he went to, and a long time ago when they were demolishing & emptying one of them he rescued a load of books that were being destroyed. Grandad took the books home with him & kept them safe in his shed for years, I then inherited them when he died.
I hadnt managed to go thru all the papers until recently when I found the books, I have contacted the city records office & I am donating them, they have loads of names & info going back to 1892 so hopefully they will be of help to someone.
Gaille