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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: hobbyhorse on Tuesday 04 August 09 12:24 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information, regarding the courtcase of my family, Walters.
they owned a tea plantation in Ceylon/sri lanka and left an estate worth millions! the money ended up going to the treasury, as the church in which they got married (in carmarthenshire) burnt down and records destroyed.
They must have died out in Ceylon, without leaving a will.
My grandmother said it was a huge case, in all the papers, but I am unable to find anything. I don't have a date, but would love to see the court documents and newspaper stories. Does anyone have any ideas of where to look? This has been eluding me for a long time and I would be grateful for any help.
I found out that land was sold off, in Ceylon in the 1840's to British people.
Any information would be gratefully received
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So this occurred pre-1840s?
Do you know the full names of the "Walters" whose estate it was or the names of anyone else involved (especially names of sons in law etc that can be used to cross-check?).
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Hello
Thanks for the message. I think that the land was starting to be sold off, in the 1840's to encourage British people to go over there and buy the land etc.
I am presuming that it must have been around or after that date, but my gran, who has passed away never mentioned a date. Sorry to be so vague, but my gran always just said 'a long time ago'.
I don't have the names of the people that were trying to claim the estate, again I am assuming it was Walters. I was trying to find out is there some sort of archive that deals with estates that have been claimed, by the treasury?
Surely there can't be many tea plantations in Ceylon, worth millions, that have been in the papers?
It is very frustrating that I have no more details, as I would really like to see the records.
On the internet there is a reference to the church, in Llangynog burning down and all records prior to 1775 destroyed.
kind regards
Hobbyhorse
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Sounds like possibly "Bona Vacantia" - no will (intestate), no legal heir could be found. As I understand it, property belonging to the estate would have been sold and the money held in trust by the court until such time as a legal claimant comes forward. It is possible records may be at the NA.
Some of the original parish records in Llangynog were destroyed by fire, but there are some surviving Bishops Transcripts previous to that date.
I suggest you work back to try and figure out who it was who owned the estate originally, and/or who would have been the ones to try and claim the money. These two events could be decades apart. Otherwise it's just a fishing expedition.
I thought the London Gazette might have a notice (again, depending on the date), akin to these issued for people who died intestate in Ceylon, but could not find one for anyone with the surname Walters:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/25558/pages/707
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26307/pages/4088
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Hello and thanks for the information, on the London gazette. there were Walters in my family, Margaret Walters, born 1845, was the daughter of John and Sarah Walters. Margaret was one of many, as was her father. I am assuming that it was one of these, but there is no way I can say definately, as I have no clues??
I was wondering if there an index or records kept of old courtcases, especially concerning the treasury. Would this be at the national archives?
kind regards
Hobbyhorse
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Hi
Tea production was introduced into Ceylon in 1867.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_production_in_Sri_Lanka
So really for a tea plantation to be worth millions in Ceylon you are looking some way past that date.
Regards
Valda
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Have you had a look at this site?
http://www.historyofceylontea.com/
There's alot about the history of the tea estates along with a forum.
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Is this family John and Sarah Walters who lived in Llanelly? John was a farmer?
I did find a link between Ceylon and Llanelly -
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lkawgw/uklist1891.htm
shows an Edith Blanch Clarence aged 14 b. Ceylon was living there in 1891, "cousin" (don't know to who) - could this be the connection?
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lkawgw/
Another possiblity, I do find a William Henry Walters who was there circa 1845-1851 (appears in directories for those years).
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You should check the Gale Times archive.
This is not so easy to do as it was but most libraries have a subscription.
My gggfr John Boustead was a coffee planter in Ceylon who went bankrupt in 1879 because of the dreaded coffee rust.
The resultant court cases were extensively reported in the law reports in the Times.
His son Jack Boustead rescued the family fortunes to an extent by going out and planting tea.
HTH
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Hello and thanks for all the information. Jorose... how did you access the directory regarding William Walters? I have clicked on the link, that you gave me and a menu came up. Have been into several, but I can't find the Walters Directory entry?
It is the John and Sarah Walters that were the farmers, in LLanelly. The Walters were a large family, in carmarthenshire up until 100 years ago. There were many of them farming different farms there. Margaret Walters, one of their daughters married William Price, my great great grandparents.
Everyone has been very kind.....I will search the Times archive next. It would be so nice to get a breakthrough.....I wish I had asked my gran more, when I had the chance.
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[quote author=jorose link=topic=396812.msg2677232#msg2677232 date=124957412
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lkawgw/
Another possiblity, I do find a William Henry Walters who was there circa 1845-1851 (appears in directories for those years).
[/quote]
Hi there Hobbyhorse, I'm researching the family line of William Henry Walters and would love to touch base with you and see if you were able to get any further with your inquiries?
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Hello Suzanne
I am still trying to find any mention of 'the Walters millions ', in the newspapers. My gran did say it was in the national papers, as it involved a lot of money...... I just can't find it. I wish I had asked her in more detail ! Are you also descended from this Walters line ? From Ancestry, I know that there were many Walters farming in the Felinfoel area of LLanelli in the 1850's.
Kind regards
Hobbyhorse
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Sounds like the case would have been in Chancery. These cases are indexed at the National Archives, though not always as helpfully as you might hope. I've tried a search for Walters in Chancery records 1840-1900, which gives over 2000 records. Adding Ceylon to the search term, or adding Llanelly (which is the spelling likely to have been used) generate no hits.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/
Now if there was no Will, or no valid Will, the estate would have been dealt with under intestacy rules and these are clear. As there were by all accounts plenty of Walters relations around, they would have been entitled and the estate would have been distributed: someone would have been given power to Administer the estate. Any big estate pre-1858 would have been dealt with by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and these are indexed at the National Archives. After that, all Wills and Admons were indexed centrally and this is available on Ancestry.
Help at
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/wills-and-probate-records.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/chancery-cases-after-1875.htm
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Hello Hobbyhorse
I have just searched The British Newspaper Archives using a search of surname Walters Tea Plantation Ceylon. One of the hits is for Nottingham Evening Post 10 July 1915.
It is a review of what is on in the Theatre and Halls. Two thirds into the review is a review for a show at the Hippodrome starring Jack Shires (a comedian). It states he was descended from Bendigo the prize fighter and is one of about half a dozen claimants to the Pritchard millions which are derived from an estate in Wales and huge tea plantations in Ceylon.
Could this be the same estate?
Gary
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Hello
Thank you for the information on the Pritchard estates. I have scoured the internet and I don't think that it is right estate, as I found an article saying that the estate includes a house in Llangollan. Also the name Pritchard is not in my family tree and I have just checked any Pritchard/ Walters marriages in Carmarthenshire, just to sure....and there are no matches.
My grandmother always told me that it was called ' the Walters millions ', but there is no mention anywhere on the internet! According to my gran it made the headlines, as a lot of money was involved. Are there any plantation records surviving from Ceylon? It's very frustrating and I wish I had a date or something, as a marker !!!
Hobbyhorse
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I don't know if these article's from Trove, dated 1913, have anything to do with the Walter's family you are searching for.
The location is Australia, not Ceylon, so may just be a similar case, although it does mention estates in Wales.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/136817565?searchTerm=walters%20millions&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137619703?searchTerm=walters%20millions&searchLimits=
Regards
Trish
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Hello
Thanks for looking, but I think this also is not the correct estate. It was definitely a fortune made on a tea plantation, in Ceylon.
Thanks again
Hobbyhorse
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they owned a tea plantation in Ceylon/sri lanka and left an estate worth millions!
I have been watching this thread out of interest to see where it leads.
Do you think the story could have been altered over the years? My way of thinking is that if someone owned property to the extent of that sort of value back in the early to mid 1800's you wouldnt have to look far to find them, they would notably be high society. One would also think IF they had property to that value they would have been business minded in every sense therefore would have had a will to protect their assets when they died.
There was no doubt a court case etc but i dont feel it was over "millions".
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they owned a tea plantation in Ceylon/sri lanka and left an estate worth millions!
I have been watching this thread out of interest to see where it leads.
Do you think the story could have been altered over the years? My way of thinking is that if someone owned property to the extent of that sort of value back in the early to mid 1800's you wouldnt have to look far to find them, they would notably be high society. One would also think IF they had property to that value they would have been business minded in every sense therefore would have had a will to protect their assets when they died.
There was no doubt a court case etc but i dont feel it was over "millions".
Sad fact that over the years stories get embellished. My husbands family always talked of land that they were swindled out of. Today this would be worth millions as it's thought the land was in the area of St Barts Hospital, London. The story goes that "important papers" were burnt by a family member.....hmm.
Since the family were pretty much as poor as church mice back to the mid 1700's one has to wonder how true the story is. Great fun to research though ;D
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Hello
Thanks for the reply. I do find it really strange that I can't find any mention of it in archived newspapers or on the internet. However it it wasn't for my gran who gave my a lot of accurate information, before she passed away, I would not have been able to do my family tree. She did have a very good memory and everything else has been correct. But it is very odd that we can find nothing. According to my gran a member of the family went over to Ceylon and did make a fortune from a plantation. They died over there, intestate and another member put a claim in and ended up losing his house over court fees, when the money went to the chancery. My gran also said that the marriage records, providing the link were destroyed by fire, in Llangynog church. There was a fire in that church and records were lost. Thanks for looking, I am very grateful. hobbyhorse