RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: suffolkboyswife on Sunday 02 August 09 13:53 BST (UK)

Title: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Sunday 02 August 09 13:53 BST (UK)
Hi, my great Aunt died recently and my Mum has several of her old family photos, we know everyone in them apart from this lady and when asked, my Grandma said "Oh that's Aunt Wilhelmina nobody talked about her" which has left us all intrigued as I have done a lot of research on that side of the family and a Wilhelmina has never turned up so if someone would be able to give me an idea of when it was taken and/or how old she could possibly be I would be most grateful.



Thanks

SBW

I have never added a photo on here so I hope it comes out ok
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: jaywit on Sunday 02 August 09 14:43 BST (UK)
I can see the photographer Arthur James was living on Ramsgate Louth in the 1881 and 1891 census returns.
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Sunday 02 August 09 14:46 BST (UK)
Do you know great minds think alike.

I was just having another look at the photo and I thought I wonder if I can find out where the photographer was and if the building is still there and then I got your reply!!  :D

Thanks jaywit (are you OTR with a slightly longer version of your name??)
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: jaywit on Sunday 02 August 09 14:56 BST (UK)
Yes  ;D ;D

She is sitting on a velocipede.
This is what Wiki has to say about them,there is a picture of a similar one on the right hand side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocipede
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: jaywit on Sunday 02 August 09 15:04 BST (UK)
You need some of the fashion experts, Paula is very good at fashion, but this suggests 1890's.

The mid 1890s introduced leg o'mutton sleeves, which grew in size each year until they disappeared in about 1896. During the same period of the mid '90s, skirts took on an A-line silhouette that was almost bell-like. The late 1890s returned to the tighter sleeves often with small puffs or ruffles capping the shoulder but fitted to the wrist. Skirts took on a trumpet shape, fitting more closely over the hip and flaring just above the knee. Corsets in the 1890s helped define the hourglass figure as immortalized by artist Charles Dana Gibson. In the very late 1890s the corset elongated, giving the women a slight S-curve silhouette that would be popular well into the Edwardian era.

Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Sunday 02 August 09 15:54 BST (UK)
Thanks jaywit.

So if it is mid 1890's I would guess her age at somewhere between 25-35 (very roughly) so that would mean she born somewhere between 1860-1870ish, which would make her the age to be an aunt of my Grandma's Dad.  I wonder if she was an illegitimate daughter of someone which was why she was never spoken of, or if not what did she do that was so bad that she couldn't be spoken of but photos still kept of her?????????? hmmmm intriguing.
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 02 August 09 16:04 BST (UK)
Hello SBW
I would go along with late 1890's,although this Gigot sleeve lost favour around 1897 it was still seen as late as 1900.
The lady is single & about 30 I would suggest.Great photo.

jim

Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: jaywit on Sunday 02 August 09 16:18 BST (UK)
SBW have a look OTR
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: mermaid-nl on Sunday 02 August 09 23:14 BST (UK)
Sorry to sound dim but is Louth the placename?
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: robbo43 on Sunday 02 August 09 23:36 BST (UK)
Sorry to sound dim but is Louth the placename?

Yup, in Lincolnshire

Robert
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: mermaid-nl on Sunday 02 August 09 23:43 BST (UK)
Thanks Robert,

I've got ancestors with the same surname and everytime I try to search for them, Louth (the place) comes up.....

I know I sound dim  :D
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: peterbmillzz on Monday 03 August 09 13:46 BST (UK)
Hi mermaid-nl
just out of interest, is there aything on the back of the picture?
Peter
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Monday 03 August 09 13:56 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for your input and help.

Hi Peter, no there isn't anything on the back but the photo itself has been stuck onto thick green card which has the photographers details on (which is what you can see up the side of the photo) so I don't know if anything is written on the reverse of the photo but I doubt it as I would imagine it was stuck onto the card when it was processed.

Thanks,

SBW
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: peterbmillzz on Monday 03 August 09 14:10 BST (UK)
Thats a shame, sometimes lots of info can be got from jottings.

I have just brigtened it up a bit, hope you don't mind.
Peter
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Monday 03 August 09 16:01 BST (UK)
Hi, not a problem.

MYSTERY SOLVED  ;D (I think??)

I've just been looking at photos of my gt gt grandma when she would have been around the same age just on the off chance there may be a connection there and there is some similarities especially the chin but I just fell over after I noticed the photo I have of my gt gt grandma is on the same green background with the same photographer and his business address up the side and she is sat with her family in front of a wooden shack which is made in the same style as the barn that 'Wilhelmina' is sat in front of on her trike thing so these photos were taken at the same time !!!!!!!!!  so I'm pretty sure it is Zilpha not Wilhelmina, the sad thing is it was taken not long before she died as I can date the photo of my gt gt grandma from the the number and ages of the children with her-1899

Now to find out why nobody spoke about her!!
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: Eilleen on Monday 10 August 09 11:09 BST (UK)
Hi ,
suffolkboyswife.

You have intrigued me and confused me :)
the lady on the bike,   is she Zelphia James who died in 1899 , Louth, aged 38 yrs.  ???

hope you don't mind me being nosey  :)

Eilleen.
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Monday 10 August 09 12:04 BST (UK)
Hi Eilleen,

Yes I believe that is her, I am awaiting certificates to see if it can help confirm (or otherwise!)

No I don't mind you being nosey  ;D
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Thursday 13 August 09 17:22 BST (UK)
I've just had death cert and it is the correct lady (Zilpha) the informant was my gt gt grandad (her brother in law)

Cause of death - Morbus Coxae 22 years ch. Nephritis lardaceous disease of the liver.

I'm trying to work out what they are at the moment but it doesn't sound good.  I think the first one she had for 22 years is some sort of arthritis of the hips so that would explain the chair she was in, but I'm not totally sure as nothing specific is coming up when i google.
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: robbo43 on Thursday 13 August 09 20:42 BST (UK)
Morbus Coxea is osteo-arthritis of the hips possibly resulting from a tubercular infection.

Nephritis lardaceous is waxy degeneration of the kidney - "This form of kidney is always associated with amyloid degeneration of some other part, such as spleen, liver, etc., and, although it is frequently associated with Bright's disease, should not be regarded as a variety of chronic nephritis, as it may occur independently of it. While the cause is obscure, it is most likely due in some measure to retrograde changes in the blood plasma, whereby the blood is unable to manufacture normal tissue. It is secondary to chronic suppurative diseases, especially those of the bones, and is often tubercular. Ulceration of the bowels, tuberculosis, anal fistula, the ulcerative stage of syphilitic deposits in the bone, and, in fact, any chronic suppurative process whereby there has been a long-continued drain on the albumin—gout, cancer, malaria, leukemia, and chronic valvular diseases—have been associated with the amyloid kidney; but just how much, if any, these diseases are responsible for the degeneration is not known."

Doesn't sound nice.
Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: suffolkboyswife on Friday 14 August 09 07:58 BST (UK)
Hi, thanks for your input  I think my gt gt gt Aunt was a very poorly lady and must have been in quite a lot of pain as well  :(  :'(

I'm getting a bit confused now as to which parts of the causes of death go together, I'll write it our as it is written - bearing in mind the box is quite small:

Morbus Coxae 22 years
ch. Nephritis
Lardaceous disease of Liver

I'll try to add a scan of the cert

Title: Re: Could some SKS date this photograph for me please
Post by: robbo43 on Friday 14 August 09 22:59 BST (UK)
Looks as though there are three conditions listed.  It seems she had chronic inflammation of the kidneys (nephritis) and waxy/albuminoid degeneration of the liver as well as the osteo-arthritis of the hips.  Could be long term damage from a tubercular infection of bone and some soft tissue but that is just guessing from some of the medical descriptions.  I think that when she died the doctor just listed the conditions he knew she was suffering from.