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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: tommobecket on Friday 31 July 09 17:55 BST (UK)
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My grandfather alludes to his service in the Irish Citizen army and being based at "Murino Lodge, Fairview" during the War of Independence. I am aware that there is an historic building called Casino Marino, and a Marino conference centre but can't seem to find anything else about the use of the 'casino' or the house around 1920, and very little about the history or heritage of the buildings in the early 20th century. Can anyone offer direction to any sources which might offer more information, particulalry regarding the role of these buildings during the war of independence?
Many thanks
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Marino was a large house, surrounded by a demesne (in which the Casino was built). There were several lodges, at the various gates into the demesne.
Do you know at which lodge your grandfather was stationed?
Adrian
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Hello Adrian
thankyou for replying and I wasn't aware that were several lodges,(this is new information indeed). When asked for information on continuous active service during the period from 1st April 1917 to 31st March 1918, Denis says his unit was the “Irish Citizen Army (I.R.A.)” and the duration of this service was “From June 1917 to February 1918” with the district in which this service was rendered being “Liberty Hall and Murino Lodge, Fairview, Dublin”. His commanding officer at this latter time was “Mr, Robert De Coeur” and that his action at this time is described as “Services during this period consisted of Drilling and Rifle Practice”.
Any information on the buildings at the site would be most valuable as nothing I have read so far (O.K, limited and restricted to web information available only) is indicating several buildings and there appears to be nothing on any activity during the war of independence, so absolutely anything you suggest is most helpful
thankyou Adrian
Denis
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The main entrance to Marino House was located near Marino Mart - opposite the current Fairview Park. The original gates were located here - these are now located at the entrance of Marino Institute (just off Griffith Avenue).
I've just looked at an 1840 OS Map - there was a gate lodge near these gates at that time. There was another entrance, with gate lodge, on the current Malahide Road - looks to be a little north of the present-day entrance to the Casino. Near this entrance the was also Marino Villa - might be relevant.
Marino House was demolished about 1927.
I hope this helps.
Gerry
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Gerry, wow, where did you get that detail from, fantastic, thankyou. Are there any records at the conference centre (or anywhere else for that matter) that might throw further light on the role of the premises between 1916 - 1921 and clarify the structure and location of what appears to be a disparate collection of buildings?
regards
Denis
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Denis
See text below re history of Marino Institute of Education [from http://www.mie.ie/About-MIE/Campus/History.aspx]. An email to the college might get some info on usage during the War of Independence.
Griffith Avenue now cuts across the townland of Marino which contained Lord Charlemont's estate. However, Griffith Avenue was only laid down in the mid 1920s.
Lord Charlemont's Marino House was at the south end of the townland (in the area of the Marino modern housing estate, built in the late 1920s). At the north end were the Casino as well as the enclosed gardens and ornamental lakes. Some of the garden brick walls can still be seen, surrounding the grounds of the St. Vincents GAA Club. The grounds north of the present Marino Institute consisted of open fields as recently as the mid 1980's - before the construction of the modern Charlemont housing estate and St. Vincents clubhouse and grounds, as well as the Casino modern housing estate. The lakes are long gone, but some older people still remember them.
best regards
Gerry
Marino Institurte History:
Coláiste Mhuire is a primary college of education run by the Congregation of Christian Brothers. The site upon which the college now stands is only one of a series of locations where the Christian Brothers' centre of teacher training was housed. In 1831 the residence of the Superior General of the Irish Christian Brothers and the centre of teacher training was moved to North Richmond Street (O’Connell Schools) Dublin from Our Lady’s Mount (North Monastery) in Cork. In 1874 it was transferred to Belvedere House in Drumcondra (now the President’s House in St. Patrick’s College, Drumcondra). Cardinal Mc Cabe who established it as a teacher training college, now known as St. Patrick’s College, acquired Belvedere House for the Christine Brothers initially. In 1875,The Brothers moved to Marino House, on the original Lord Charlemont demesne, and have made it their home since.
Construction of a new Training College - St. Mary's Building - commenced with the laying of the foundation stone by Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Walsh on 10th of June 1900. From its earliest days the College was involved in the training of teaching brothers who would subsequently work on the five continents.
In 1926 the Christian Brothers entered the National Schools system. Since 1971 Brothers of other orders attended the college, and since 1972 the admission of lay students to Coláiste Mhuire became a permanent arrangement. From this time the B.Ed qualification gained from Coláiste Mhuire is validated from Trinity College Dublin.
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Gerry
thanks for this and I have contacted the Institute and look forward to the response.
I read recently that there are tunnels and underground passages under the casino' that were used by Micheal Collins for rifle and small arms practice, which is the first direct reference I have been able to obtain apart from Denis's own reference.
cheers
Denis
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I just wanted to say thankyou to everyone here who helped as I had a tremendously helpful reply from the Marino Institute, and I was able to clarify that Marino Lodge was subsequently named Marino House, so it may well have been the old house where he was stationed. Although, as Gerry indicates there are several 'lodges' at gate entrances so he may have been at one of these. I guess we'll never know. Frustratingly, it appears the brothers kept no documentation about the role of Marino House during the War of Independence, especially as Micheal Collins was known to have used the house and gardens for drilling and rifle practice. And now I'm tormented by the idea that Denis may have known Micheal Collins, possibly quite well ...
So I have a substantial amount of new information that has helped me get a very strong pricture if Denis's activity and the places where he moved. Sure now to pay a visit to Marino on my next trip to Dublin.
Thankyou
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Gerry
A bit of a delay but I have had the privilege of engaging in correspondence and have has an incredible response from the Institute. My grandfather was actually referring to Marino House, which is now St.Marys College in Donnycarney.
I've had wonderful help from one of the administrators at the college, Ciaran Fogerty, who forwarded me a book about Marino, in which the author suggests frustration at the lack of any documented records by the brothers on their involvement in 1916 and the war of independence.
But significantly he also pointed me in the direction of one of the Brothers at the college, Brother Seamus Plunkett Nolan who has been incredibly helpful. Seamus has unearthed a remarkable document with references to how the brothers helped the volunteers leading up to 1916, and how the volunteers and the ICA used the grounds for drilling and hiding guns. In a 'booklet' format and written in 1966 by the pupils to commemorate the 50th anniversary of 1916, and in Irish, he has kindly begun to translate sections and forward these to me. I'm no historian, but this looks like some very rich detail indeed with references to a number of volunteers! I imagine this detail may already be in the public realm but nonetheless would like to share it.
I guess in order to fully allow the information to be shared and signpost members who are interested in this subject, I will open another link focused on 'Marino House, 1916 and the War of Independence'. I hope thats OK and hope a moderator can confirm this is OK. I will try to upload all the text that Brother Seamus has forwarded me, but its quite a lot if text.
Denis
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Hi
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Croyden Park House (Official Training Ground "Irish Citizen Army" )
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The Citizen Army Trained in "Croydon Park House", this was their official training ground.
Present day Marino, at the time it would of been located in Clontarf West.
The original name of the house was PennyVille.
The house was demolished in 1926 to make way for the Marino housing Scheme. Croydon Park House was located in the Croydon Estate next to Charlemont Estate (present day Marino)
The entrance to the Croydon Estate was at the top of Fairview Avenue, and a side entrance at the top of Philipsburgh Avenue.
Croydon Park House was located in Marino, Dublin 3, Ireland - "Murino Lodge"
may have been lost in the translation.
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Marino House (Charlemont Estate present day Marino)
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There was a Marino House but had nothing to do with the "Irish Citizen Army" during the 1916 Rising "Marino House" was occupied by the Christian Brothers.
There was several entrances to the Charlemont Estate, one was on the front of Fairview Strand (Mart) and another on the Malahide Road (Donnycarney End).
The owners of Marino House prior to Christian Brothers was Thomas Adderley step Father to Lord Charlemont who built the Casino. There was a Tunnel that was built from the Casino to "Marino House" for servants.
After the Christian Brothers left "Marino House" circa 1926, it changed hands and fell into ruin, the whole area of Marino was a hot bed of activity during 1916 and the War of Independence.
After Howth Gun Run (1914) the rifles were stored in various location around Marino - some were stored in Marino House, but the bulk was stored in Father Mathews Park in Fairview (a stones throw away) located behind present day Fairview Church.
*The Irish Citizen Army - gun practice for 1916 would of taking place in
Croydon Park House / Marino
* The Irish Volunteers - gun practice for 1916 would of taking place in
Father Mathews Park/ Fairview
* Marino House during this period was under control of the Christan Brothers
If you need any more info please contact me........
Cheer's
CPH
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"My grandfather was actually referring to Marion House, which is now St.Marys College in Donnycarney"
A slight correction here
* Christian Brothers moved from "Marino House"
(located @ the Fairview end of the Malahide Road)
to the newly built St.Mary College @ present day Griffith Avenue,
Marino at the turn of the century.
* Crydon Park House- Demolished 1926 "Irish Citizen Army"
* Marino House - Demolished 1926
* Father Mathews Park North (CY Golf Course today)
* Father Mathes Park South (Infant School today, this is where the Howth gun were
stored for GPO, Irish volunteers)
There was several Lodges in the area, but these were homes in this context. I know
in Ulster a lodge means an association.
At one time or another all the main figures in 1916 would have been active in Marino.
Regards
CPH
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part of 1913 Dublin Map
Moderator comment: copyright image removed. Map can be found here:
http://roots.swilson.info/dublincity_1913/dublincity_1913.html
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Hi
This is Croydon Park House circa 1923
Regards,
CPH
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A company of the Irish Citizen Army at Croydon House, Croydon Park, Clontarf, Co. Dublin (the recreation centre of the ITGWU), 1914.
Copyright image removed
See this website for photo of Croydon House- http://multitext.ucc.ie/viewgallery/356
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Hi lanigangenealogy
Thanks for the Photo it was taking around April 1913 -
The head of the unit in this photograph (far right) - Jack White
The top row the Girl in the middle is "Katie Connolly" sister to
Sean Connolly first guy shot in 1916 at the Castle
Also Flagged to her left and right is Mick Mallin + Frank Robbins
Do you have any info/photos of the area - am a keen local history guy -
Kind Regards
CPH
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Hi CPH,
My interest in this topic has only just arisen after discovering a deceased relative from Fairview had joined the volunteers at an early age - he was just 15 when he fought in the GPO. He resided at Annadale Avenue, Fairview at the time of the 1911 census. He obviously didn't have to go far to travel to the volunteer drills in Fr Mathew Park. It also accounts for how he got drawn in to the struggle despite the fact that he wasn't from a political family.
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Hi lanigangenealogy
There was a lot of famous 1916'ers in Croydon Park House (Irish Citizen Army)
and Volunteers (Fr.Mathews Park).
What was his name see can i find something on him
Regards
CPH
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What was his name see can i find something on him
Edward Byrne - living at 9 Annadale Avenue in 1911 census aged 11 years old.
He later becomes one of the squad "Twelve Apostles". I don't want to infringe on an existing topic - See other discussion http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,406100.0.html but if you have anything to add on the background to the volunteers in Fairview at that time then that would be great - or other references to Edward.
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Hi
I have a family photo of Bobby Humphreys (St.Stephen Green) funeral there was Guard of Honour, and Vinnie Bryne is there at the 3 Gun Salute, it looks like an Irish Press Photo -
Is Vinnie B. realted to Edward Byrne ?
Also I saw on this site that a member has issued a photo of the old IRA @ the Casino on Marino - there is about 50 people in the photo circa 1940's ;
You know the Howth Guns were stored in Father Mathews Park - and they were brought to the GPO The morning of the Rising. The Volunteers left Ft.Mathews Park, down by present day Luke Kelly Bridge and at the corner of Clonlife Road, they came under fire from the Railway Bridge in Ballybough
The Volunteers took out the British Gun and made their way down to the GPO with the guns.
Regards
CPH
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Is Vinnie B. realted to Edward Byrne ?
No, Vinnie and Edward (Eddie) Byrne were not related.
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I always believed that Lord Charlemont's house (Marino House) is the current Kavanagh's Pub on the Malahide Road.
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Hi Gaisgeach ;
I been researching the local history on Marino; and I know the
history of the area like the back of my Hand.
Kavannaghs Pub, whichI know well is not Marino house.Marino
House was located Facing towards West Wood Gym/Fairview
Park.
CPH
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RE : MARINO HOUSE
Hi Gaisgeach ;
I been researching the local history on Marino; and I know the history of the area like the back of my Hand. It has a very strong connection with 1916-
Kavannah's Pub, which I know well, is NOT Marino house.
The exact location of Marino House, if you are walking down Brian Road towards Marino Park.(From Griffith Ave) There are two roads intersecting this road (Carleton Road + BrianAve). Between these two roads was the exact location of Marino House. Marino House was located Facing towards West Wood Gym/Fairview Park. The entrance to Marino House would of been the opposite side of the road to Kavannaghs Pub.
"Marino Crescent" was build to block the view of Marino House (Charlemont) not the Casino after
a dispute. The Entrance of "Marino House" would of been on the opposite side of the Road from Kavannagh Pub. Marino House was owned by Thomas Adderly Charlemont's Step Father.
Marino House fell under the control of Christian Brothers, then the Dublin Corporation. It was destroyed in 1926 to make way for the Marino Housing Scheme.
The famous incident with the Howth Gun running and the clash with the crown forces happened on the Malahide Road outside Marino House.
Croydon Park House, was the training ground of the Irish Citizen Army was located beside the D Walls. With the back of Croydon Park House facing the "TOP CIRCLE" Croydon Park i,e Fairview Scouts Hut.
Behind Fairview Church was Father Mathews Park, where the Irish Volunteers trained. All the main figures in the 1916 Rising would have trained or visited Marino, as it was where they trained and stored guns for the rising.
Regards
CPH
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CP , familiar with your directions as i'm from the area as is my mother and father. Its possible that my grandfather was in the gun running as he was Fianna Boy scout at the time.
My father remembers cottages on philipsburgh ave. where the 'top shops' are today, up from the once 'Dolan's Farm. One of these cottages was a shop in the 40s.
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Hello !
Thanks forthe reply, you should go onto the OSI maps, you can super impose
old maps over new maps
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,717838,736624,6
Does you father have any old Photo's of Marino ?
You know there is/was a tunnels from the Casino to Marino House;
it was here that Michael Collins tested the first Automatic
Gun.
One of the gates to the Charletmont estate was at Marino Mart
and there was a wall running around the the estate, i.e
Kebab shop Fairview Library and up the Malahide road
to the Casino.
The Skirmish withthe Gunrunning took place outside Kav;s
the guns were stored mainly Father Mathews Park and
in St.Mary College and a couple in the Yard of Marino House.
CPH