RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: oldwrinkle on Thursday 09 July 09 22:26 BST (UK)
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Hiya guys, I'm new to this site and found it searching about the Heir Hunter programme. I'm not sure how much I am allowed to convey to you due to copyright laws, but on Monday 13th, I am in the programme regarding my Uncle Cullum. I am filmed in my lounge, then in my kitchen ( chopping carrots and nearly fingers ) I was wearing a Blue striped shirt and jeans. The whole experience was great and now I want to try and delve further into my ancestors past - so what better site to start? I haven't managed to read all of this thread, but it appears very informative, as does the complete forum. Given time, I shall research further and, if you guys are willing, ask questions.
Thanks for reading.
Steve
Moderator Comment: continued from:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314836.0.html
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Hi Old Wrinkle welcome to rootschat ;D
I thought it was pity in today's programme that they didn't show more about the Princesses mothers side of the family from Yorkshire :-\
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Hi Steve,
Will try and watch Monday's programme with added interest!
Welcome to the site and there is none better for friendly help.
Selina
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Madpants and Selina thank you for you welcome. I look forward to Mondays programme and then asking you guys for info.
Steve
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Welcome Steve,
Warm Welcome to RC.
Looking forward to the programme,will get OH to call me early for this one!!
Will we get any hints about the family you will be trying to trace.?
Spring
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Oldwrinkle - welcome to Roots Chat - when the programme has been aired, you will be able to give us some insider info on the making of the show. My missus has a very keen eye, and she's always pointing out continuity errors, and never ceases to remind me that they can't possibly film someone opening the door from the inside unless they've already let the camera crew in ;D
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Nick, would love to follow the Photographers comment, but don't like to see a thread go off at a tangent!
How about a new thread on TOT.
(I'm with your wife 0n that!)
Spring
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Hi Steve,
Welcome to RC, and I will look forward to seeing the programme on Monday with great interest.
Ambers
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Welcome to Rootschat Steve. There is plenty to see on this site where you will get help on which ever board you go on, just one word of caution though, it does get additive ;D
old rowley
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just one word of caution though, it does get additive ;D
old rowley
Very, very addictive ;)
Ambers
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Oldwrinkle - welcome to Roots Chat - when the programme has been aired, you will be able to give us some insider info on the making of the show. My missus has a very keen eye, and she's always pointing out continuity errors, and never ceases to remind me that they can't possibly film someone opening the door from the inside unless they've already let the camera crew in ;D
Talking of continuity errors, I have just watched yesterday's episode about the man they thought was worth £1 million and was worth about £5k. When one of the heirs opened the door, Dave Mansell (I think) introduced himself after the heir said hello David. ::) ;D
Kerry
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Nick, would love to follow the Photographers comment, but don't like to see a thread go off at a tangent!
How about a new thread on TOT.
(I'm with your wife 0n that!)
Spring
You mean it hasn't already ? ;) ;D
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Another welcome for Steve (oldwrinkle) - I record the programmes & watch while eating my lunch, so I'll look out for you on Monday, too.
I have to agree that there are plenty of "continuity" errors in the film as shown and in the voice-over being out-of-step with the research as shown, but overall I think this is the best series of this programme - less "chase" and more research.
I'd also like to thank Neil Fraser for participating on the previous thread - perhaps he'd like to comment on whether filming makes the work more stressful or slower or does everyone take it in their stride?
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Welcome Steve - oldwrinkle ;)
As you will soon discover, this is a friendly site and I'm sure you will get loads of help once you start asking for info :)
With regards to this morning's programme, I thought it was very emotional with the two half-sisters meeting up. I don't know what I'd be like if such a thing ever happened to me. Luckily I know who my siblings are, so it's not likely ;D
This series is a lot better than previous ones, mainly because there is a lot more information. For instance today we actually heard the price of a certificate being mentioned, as well as the extra fee for an express service...now that's a first ;D
I hope there are a lot more programmes to come as it's one of my favourites ;D
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Thank you for all of your welcomes, this certainly does seem a very friendly site :)
Although I can't say too much about the filiming etc just yet, I can tell you that my Uncle was photographed with an old comedian and another old famous person. Hopefully these and other old photos will be shown, especially the one of his latter day boss. I was even filmed walking down the stairs looking at the photos.............by the way, my hair isn't really Grey, they are just highlights ( yeah right ) ;)
I haven't been able to watch many of the latest series, but after reading your threads, it appears to be better than the other series.
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Interesting programme Steve and what an intriguing life your uncle led.
Kerry
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Hi Steve
Enjoyable programme, your Uncle Charles was an interesting person.
I would like to know how much family history Fraser & Fraser leave you with, do you get to keep copies of the certificates ??
Regards
Simon
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I believe they said on the program that they shred most of the certificates as they can't store them all. Files are microfilmed and then shreded too.
Laurina
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I didn't watch this until last night. What an interesting story ! One of the best so far, I think, and I'm not just saying that because it was about the uncle of a Roots Chatter.
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Not one of My cases so I cant comment on the amount of family history given to Steve, I think it was Hoopers. By the way my great aunt founded the original Hoopers in 1923, the new one was formed when the Fraser family moved to our own Firm in 1969 we were formed a few days earlier because it is easier to form a partnership so really F&F are the oldest firm!!
Filming is very much something that happens in the background just 1 day a week we have now done 60 programs and had the crew in our office for 18 months so they are really part of the Frasers family now. There are rules about who they are allowed to talk to when research is under way so as not to disrupted the work. We work much slower when the film crew are around and often find that we have to repeat things to the camera so they can get a different shot. There are small errors in continuity mainly the length of my hair! but it is not too bad some of it is very hard to peace together when you think they film 3 case a day and may only use 1 then there are 2 cameras in the office and 5 on the road and we dont know who will let a camera in to there house so we plan the case to show every stem and have to go into detail on a stem only if they get in to film.
I think one of the best programs in Lee that is on tomorrow. 15/7/09.
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I too enjoyed Steve's programme. What a lovely discovery to make, and plenty to tell your own children and grandchildren ;)
I would also like to know how much of the research is given to the families after the programme. For instance, do you get a 'family tree' print-out? Do you get the certificates? How marvellous if you do, and it might even start a new generation of genealogists ;D
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Neil - thank you for answering the questions. It's good that the film crew are "part of the family" - a good relationship must make a big difference to the programme (and without it I suspect the series would have stopped after the first one). I'll be interested to see the one you mention tomorrow.
Interesting as the series have been they are still a classic lesson in why people should make a will (sorry Neil - not trying to put you out of business).
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Very interesting answer Neil, enlightening to find out some of what goes on behind the scenes.
I don't know about anyone else but I've been enjoying watching your hair grow and shrink and change style between scenes. I'm now working out when each bit was filmed ;D ;D
Kerry
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Hi Neil,
I've managed to catch a few of the programmes and find them fascinating! Well done!
You probably get asked this all the time but how do you go about recruiting research staff? I realise that your staff turnover is incredibly low but if you were looking for someone, where would you look? In other words, when can I start?!! No, seriously, it sounds like the most thrilling job ever and I would appreciate some advice on how to get into such a position.
Thanks for reading this.
Gabrielle
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sing them.
After his illness subsided, he went to Paignton as a camp entertainer, then travelled throughout the UK, then, after changing his name to Baron Carl Franz EduardHiya guys, sorry for the delay in replying and thank you for all of your comments.
Thank you to Neil too for a good insight into the background of the making of the programme. As Neil said, it was Hoopers that carried out the investigation regarding my Uncle Charlie. My filming took place in mid March of this year and lasted about 2 1/2 hours. I would love to say that there were Directors, Producers, film crew etc etc here, but, two really pleasant young ladies from Flame TV carried out the task and may I say, how really professional they were. As it happens, my Mum was asked to do the filming, but declined, so yours truly had to do it.
As the programme stated, Charlie died in 1994 and was somewhat of an enigma.
He appeared to have gone AWOL from about 1957 ish and the family lost contact with him. He served his time during the second world war and just after that, he contacted Meningitis. This, his parents were told, would either leave him brain dead, or brilliant - the latter won. My Dad, who would have loved to have been on the programme, but unfortunately died in December last year, said that Charlie would put on old gramaphone records of Ivor Novello at full volume, learn the words, then Von Eudeni, to Europe, singing mainly Opera. When his singing days were over, he worked for the Lord Chancellors office in the House of Commons for Lord Dougals Frank KG. He worked there for approx 14 years, untill he was forced to retire in 1988 due to ill health.
His Dad fought in the Boar War and first world war, but due to Mustard gas poisoning, was unable to take and maintain a full time job on his return to civvy street. This is when he began his new career as a street musician. Some might say that this is where Charlie might have gained his love of music before his illness, but that is not the case, he wasn't that interested. By all accounts, he was a loner and as stated before, an enigma.
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Sorry for the above post, not sure why all the words have jumbled up ???
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No probs...just needed a little detective work to sort it all out ;D
Your programme was a great story and a wonderful insight into what can happen to someone following a major illness.
Your family history is all the richer for knowing the story about Uncle Charlie :)
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Thank you Mother - it should have read that Charlie put on old gramaphone records of Ivor Novello, learnt the words, then sang them. This is another avenue to his ability and of course, others that contacted Savant Syndrome.
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I'd come across savants before, but had never heard of the condition being acquired after surviving a condition that would normally be fatal. He certainly was a remarkable individual. I hope that you (or someone in your family) has documented his story for future generations to read (or is going to).
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I too enjoyed Steve's programme. What a lovely discovery to make, and plenty to tell your own children and grandchildren ;)
I would also like to know how much of the research is given to the families after the programme. For instance, do you get a 'family tree' print-out? Do you get the certificates? How marvellous if you do, and it might even start a new generation of genealogists ;D
No research, certificates or family tree given to me so far - but you never know :)
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That's a bit disappointing for you then, but maybe they will send you copies soon :)
Fingers crossed anyway :)
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Have you asked for them? Maybe they don't just dish them out
Linda
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Have you asked for them? Maybe they don't just dish them out
Linda
Good idea................. just as another aside, most of the paperwork / photos shown in the programme were given to the film company by me. They came into my possession when my Dad died last year.
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In that case it would be only fair for them to return the favour and give you copies of your family tree and any certificates they got. After all that information is of no further use to them is it?
I'd ask about it if I were you....nothing ventured, nothing gained, as they say ;)
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:)
Hello Oldwrinkle
I missed your programme! >:(
Have always been fascinated with Savants, so particularly frustrating to have missed the programme! :-\
Do you know if there will be a repaeat, and when it is likely to be please? ???
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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:)
Hello Oldwrinkle
I missed your programme! >:(
Have always been fascinated with Savants, so particularly frustrating to have missed the programme! :-\
Do you know if there will be a repaeat, and when it is likely to be please? ???
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
it is repeated in the early hours of the morning ie tomorrow at 4am
but its not todays repeated, they are about 2-3 days behind
i THINK the one you want is early hours friday morning , so unless you are a night bird sky+ or record;)
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Hello les-looking
Thank you for that info............early Friday morning it will be then!!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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:)
Hello Oldwrinkle
I missed your programme! >:(
Have always been fascinated with Savants, so particularly frustrating to have missed the programme! :-\
Do you know if there will be a repaeat, and when it is likely to be please? ???
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
Or you can watch it on iPlayer ;)
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Hello les-looking
Thank you for that info............early Friday morning it will be then!!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
Danchaslyn as i say best check if that is the one you want, i havn't watched the one with Oldwrinkle in yet as i sky+ them on series link and usually watch 3-4 at a time
so the one friday morning if someone could confirm for you says Armer/Dembinska
saturday mornings is Curtis/Knight
and tonights is Martin/Aldrick
typical bbc the times seem to alter each morning on the repeats
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Hello Mother25
Sadly, not me, for I live in the "sticks".
An intermittent landline, no broadband available, only frustrating 'dial-up', no downloads,.......so definitely NO iPlayer!!!!
Lucky you!!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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:)
Hello Les_looking
That is very, very helpful, thank you ;D ;D
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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sorry Danchaslyn
the one you want is tuesday morning 2-30am
so a BIT earlier :)
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Last night's heir hunters was good - the woman who died who couldn't be traced, and her millions nearly went to the state. It turned out she was hiding a few embarassing secrets. I won't reveal any more - don't want to spoil it for those who may not have seen it yet.
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:)
Hi Les_looking
Thanks for that also, earlier it will have to be! ;D Ironically, one of my sons and his girlfriend asked me for a lift to Edinburgh Airport, this Sunday morning, 1.30 a.m., to check -in at 5 a.m., and silly me, I declined. :-\
Could have had some practice for Tuesday morning! ;D ;D
Please give me a clue, which surname are we looking for? ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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In light of my misunderstanding I remove my earlier post, but still don't like the stories being given away when the programme is so very recently shown, we haven't had a chance to watch.
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No, Nick said "nearly went to the state" ;D ;D So nothing given away at all. I haven't watched it yet either.
Kind regards
Gaie
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Watched an episode this morning where an old lady called Pearl died in a nursing home. Her death certificate stated she was a spinster but it turned out that she had been living with a man whose name she took even though she wasn't married to him.
This appeared to be a dead end however I do wonder if she was in receipt of a pension in which case surely her NI number could identify her. Would the Heir Hunters be able to use that as a channel to follow.
Perhaps Neil can say. Do bona fide companies have access to records for people are listed on the Treasury site?
Jean
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Unless the old lady changed her name by deed poll, the NI record would probably only show the same name as was on her death certificate.
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I got the impression from the programme that as there was no record of a birth certificate for this lady or a marriage certificate for the man to a woman named Pearl that she had been using his surname.
Surely she would have had a NI number issued or even an NHS number issued before she she changed her name.
I had to give my maiden name when I applied for my pension so they could check my contributions made before I was married.
Which is why I thought that would be another route to go down.
Jean
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They were my thoughts exactly Jean.
Maybe all name changes should be registered by deed poll.
I found a name in my family tree where the estate went to the treasury. As it happened she took her stepdad's surname. It took me quite a while to work she wasn't his daughter as he also had a daughter of same name. Pretty sure she had blood relations a few miles away.
I also think all wills should be registered. There must be a number of cases that appear intestate but the will is amongst papers in the deceased home.
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When we are told that the Government holds on to estates for 30 years, does this mean that they are frozen at the current amount, or are they deposited somewhere, hopefully to earn some interest?
Just wondering!
Kooky
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simple interest is earned for the first 8 years then none I am afraid.
Interest is earned while an estate is administrated if the Money is held in an interest bearing account another reason why you should only uses the bigger firms, like F&F.
Because we are not regulated and can hold client money in are own bank accounts, not specific client accounts, we can even use it as capital before it is paid out, there is a risk that a small one man company or some of the cow boy firms could go bust taking all the money with them!! F&F being a partnership are fully liable for any money, I think we are the only Partnership, that means the partners would each have to go bankrupt before any money is lost, we also have a fully audited client account that does gain interest, however low that is in the current environment!!
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Thank you for explaining!
Kooky
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Last night's episode was enthralling ! Without spoiling it for those who haven't yet seen it, it certainly underlines the vital importance of getting certificates. Amazing how just one sheet of paper can turn an inheritance case completely on its head !
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Just heard although I have not looked myself that yesterdays case of Clarke, cat could only find 1 of the 5 stems would cause a bit of a mess if any of you could find the other missing stems. it is an £18k estate so over £3k per stem still to be given out.
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Hi Fraser and Fraser
Cat?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Here's link to the case of Clarke, looked into by probate researcher Cat
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lygg5#synopsis
Susan :)
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sorry Cat Whiteaway
Case of Bertha Clarke nee Crossland died 2.1.2002 Colchester
advertised by the TS 3.8.2001 for £18k I don't know if any one worked it back in 2001 Cat only works older cases
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I haven't checked it out fully, but there is a tree on ancestry which features Louisa Crossland (Bertha's mother) and her siblings ;)
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:)
Thank you Fraserandfraser and also Keziahemm..................... ;D
that makes it all a lot clearer ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Lisa Faulkener the narrator mentions over 3000 names on the list.
How do you access that list- when only 150 or so appear on the Bona Vacantia's current one?
I think the programme has made so many more of us aware that we don't want the government to benefit from intestate money ;D
How would we check if one of our ancestors who died in the last 30 or so years and is on that list?
Carol
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those of you that know twitter "HeirHunter" has started leaving tweets will continue while we are being filmed for series 4
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Twitter and Heir Hunters two of my favourite things ;D off to follow you
Fiona
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Neil, thank you for keeping us informed. Series 4 is planned, then? Early to ask, I know, but any idea when it is likely to be shown, as I realise the current series ends tomorrow.
By the way, I keep admiring the London panorama on the office wall - is it a photograph? Much better than the usual magnolia any way.
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We are talking about hh4 no real plans at the moment but we are talking
last in the series tomorrow but then 1 week of hh2 we think only just found out about that 2 mins ago.
we may be filming as early as the start of sep or before if the bbc have there way, so time to send my those new cases. Really if you happen to know about an derelict house or of a person passing away with no family around, pass me the details I will take a quick look and let you know if we can help.
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It's sunny down here in Devon today,but bring your wellies and umbrella.
Barb
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Lisa Faulkener the narrator mentions over 3000 names on the list.
How do you access that list- when only 150 or so appear on the Bona Vacantia's current one?
I think the programme has made so many more of us aware that we don't want the government to benefit from intestate money ;D
How would we check if one of our ancestors who died in the last 30 or so years and is on that list?
Carol
Although I have been enjoying the series I'm getting fed up that they keep mentioning 3000 names...
The cynic in me thinks the Treasury don't want us to see the full list. I wonder if we can apply for it under the Freedom of information act... ;)
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Fraser & Fraser
Do you ever use the Guild of One Name studies as a source of information ?
I've been researching a name that I can 'prove' all are related in UK - only about a dozen in UK in 1901 but have not registered it as it is not complete.
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The messages about a specific case of Fraser and Fraser's have been deleted.
Please remember that this topic is about the television program "Heir Hunters"
and is not a look-up request topic :)
Bob
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I have enjoyed watching Heir Hunters - made all the more pleasurable in that I can record it and not miss any!
Can't wait for next series.
I wish Fraser and Fraser had offices my side of the country so I could become a member of staff (Herefordshire)!!!!!
Cheers
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Why not start your own Heir Hunters firm ? There's lots of cases under £20,000 that the "big boys" are not interested in.
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Nick
Thanks for the suggestion! :) I have considered it, as I sit amongst the unemployed at the moment.
But then don't have the means to set up a company and where do I start? Perhaps a word at the job centre is in order - they should be able to help. :-\
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Most local councils have help schemes for those wishing to start their own business. I think it's still called Business Link. Of course, if you are receiving job seeker's allowance, that will stop, if you work for yourself, so you'll need some money to tide you over.
Good Luck ! :)
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A distant relative of mine was the featured person on HH about a month ago. He was my dad's 3rd cousin - unfortunately closer relatives were traceable and got the cash!!
I hadn't seen the show before - I was a bit disappointed not to learn more of the family from it - repeated shots of the "local investigator" taking wrong turnings in his car weren't that entertaining.
But I found a new relative because of the programme. It triggered an interest in geneology in someone who was interviewed on the programme, and she started her tree on ancestry - I spotted it - and now we're in touch :) . which is nice ;D
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Although I really enjoy the Heir Hunters TV programme, there's one part of me that can't wait for it to come off-air.
That's because just recently my sister and I received a fairly substantial payment from an inheritance (not from F & F, I might add), but now my sister has the bit between her teeth, and every day she watches Heir Hunters and comes up with another new theory about an inheritance that we may have had, and have missed, and she phones me asking me to do all the leg-work. I have neither the time or the inclination to do this. She's becoming obsessive about it.
I wonder if Neil from F & F has heard of anything similar ?
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:)
Nick29
Am sure there are many like your sister!
One would imagine that one windfall would be sufficient, especially as I gather in both your cases, your ride was not an easy one, in attaining what was rightfully yours.
Obviously as you did all the prior legwork on both her and your case, she's not 'earned' it herself, so, so easy to seek more.
If she has the bee in her bonnet that there is more, for the two of you elsewhere now, why not point her in the direction and tell her to get on with it.
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After watching this morning's programme, it went through my head that both the two brothers who had left home early and not stayed in touch with their original family in the F&F case would have been of an age for National Service.
Could this be why they left?
Do F&F ever use, or do they have access to, the draft lists for National Service? Would it be possible to find these anywhere or are they still subject to Data Privacy laws?
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:)
Nick29
Am sure there are many like your sister!
One would imagine that one windfall would be sufficient, especially as I gather in both your cases, your ride was not an easy one, in attaining what was rightfully yours.
Obviously as you did all the prior legwork on both her and your case, she's not 'earned' it herself, so, so easy to seek more.
If she has the bee in her bonnet that there is more, for the two of you elsewhere now, why not point her in the direction and tell her to get on with it.
Yes, ours wasn't actually an inheritance, but a payout from a "Missing Beneficiary Insurance" which the people who originally got the money took out when they received the inheritance. This insurance pays out if a closer beneficiary is later found. When we first found out about the insurance, we thought it would be quite an easy matter to get the money that was rightfully ours. One year (almost to the day) and about £3000 of solicitor's fees later, we had the money. And the worse part was that we never really found out why it took so long, because it didn't go to court. If it had done that, it could have been another year. Maybe that's something else that Heir Hunters could touch on ? How long it takes to get the money, after making the claim.
The money is quite enough for me. Some people, however, get obsessed by it :)
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Hi
I first watched Heir Hunters last year on a wet Cornish holiday last year [I think it was the first series with Nadia], I have been watching the currently available series on iplayer. I have read some of the posts on the threads on rootschat.
I just wanted to ask Neil a couple of questions in one post you said something about a 50 year disclosure rule on BMD certs, and in another about you having privileges in gaining access to 'current' certificates.
I have traced living descendants for 11 siblings born in the early 1800's [for a family history book I have written] and I have had no problems in obtaining certificates less than 50 years old. Just like Heir Hunters they gave me the information I needed to locate my distant cousins.
I am currently working on finding information for a close relative, who has been estranged from her father for 52 years and never knew her paternal relatives. So far I have found two sets of first cousins [estranged from each other]. Hopefully some photographs will be arriving shortly of their dad from one set of cousins both new of my relatives father but neither knew what happened to him. One of these cousins father is sill living [older brother to my relatives father] though he has no idea what happened to his brother. Fingers crossed today I will receive the death certificate of whom I believe was the estranged father and clues to what happened to him.
I like to watch HH on the iplayer and using online genealogical sites solve the 'cases' myself at the same time. As a random act of genealogical kindness, I have sent details of various programmes to people who are connected to these lines and the iplayer link so if in the UK they can watch it themselves.
I love the challenge of the hunt, putting the clues together and solving the riddles. It really paid off when writing my book the very last contact provided me with over 50 CdV and cabinet photos of our ancestors these along with all the other documents, images and stories plus my research enriched our family story.
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Have just watched today's episode. Families are funny things!
With the case of Marie, falling out with people and pushing them away. Reminded me of my own Grandma :-\
She's managed to fall out with all her closest relatives. I haven't actually been pushed away - I chose to stay away as I'm frightened of what I might say to her.
I have never known my Grandfather as they separated and divorced when Mum was only two. Grandma, we saw little of as we were growing up but about fifteen years ago we saw her regularly. Unfortunately she would always talk of Grandfather and how he was mean, etc. Never a good picture of him. She even told us he had died many years before. I decided to track him down and discovered we had missed him by only six years. I was so cross thus the not wanting to see Grandma.
I have since done further research and been in touch with his family. All so far have said he was a nice person. Even a non-family member has said this. My only sadness is I have yet to find someone that has a photo of him - I don't even know what he looked like!! It's on on-going project.
Looking forward to more episodes!
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I've just started in family history (literally three weeks ago!) and caught Heir Hunters by chance the other day, have been catching up via iPlayer.
At risk of sounding dumb, how do they just walk "in and out" of the registry offices? Is it that simple or do they pay exorbitant fees for that service?
I ordered my first batch of certificates from the GRO on Friday 31st July and only one has shown up so far ::)
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We caught up with a couple of episodes this evening and my OH (retd. MN), made a point to which it would be interesting to know the answer.
The case was of Vincent McGarry who had served in the Army.
All service personnel have to make a Will .(and many in the MN ,also)
Would the claims become invalid if a will was subsequently discovered , and how was the possibility overlooked ?
Spring
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Hi Chutzpah,
Well yes, if you live in the same area as your ancestors,and you know that they will be registered locally then you can go in to your local register office and ask for BMD certs.Price maybe the same or cheaper. Someone else will know that (it has been mentioned on another thread )
Your e-mail confirmations from GRO will tell you the earliest date of dispatch (you will have to add on delivery time from posting) Sometimes the certs. will come earlier than expected and sometimes later if the search proves difficult.
Good Hunting and welcome to Rootschat
Spring
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Dear everyone..
If you live in Australia and wish you could get into "Heir Hunters"....Series 3 is premiering on the LifeStyle Channel(Foxtel/Austar) in September.. It is fantastic...
cheers Tabily
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Hi Chutzpah,
Well yes, if you live in the same area as your ancestors,and you know that they will be registered locally then you can go in to your local register office and ask for BMD certs.Price maybe the same or cheaper. Someone else will know that (it has been mentioned on another thread )
Your e-mail confirmations from GRO will tell you the earliest date of dispatch (you will have to add on delivery time from posting) Sometimes the certs. will come earlier than expected and sometimes later if the search proves difficult.
Good Hunting and welcome to Rootschat
Spring
Hm, I've finally found a reference about this for the local registry office (I looked yesterday but couldn't find a thing), and it is the rather perfunctory:
Family historians are requested to apply for certificates by post and not call casually at the Register Office. Whilst staff will always try to help, they do have other statutory duties to carry out every day and are often very busy with current births, deaths and marriages. Postal applications are normally dealt with promptly as they are received.
Also known as "stop bothering us you horrible lot" ;)
A lot of my family appear to be from this area though, so I might give them a go next time. What has confused me about ordering online from the GRO is that I gave full index reference for the certificates. Maybe the others were nearer the back of the archives! :P
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Bona Vacantia list
For some reason, I've started to record the list each week. Not that I think there will be anyone on there to inherit from.
Interesting to see how long some estates take to get to the list. One today from 2000 and one from 1991.
also noticed this on FAQ
Is there a time limit for making a claim?
In most cases the claim will become statute barred 12 years after the date that the administration of the estate is substantially completed. The Treasury Solicitor operates a discretionary policy whereby claims may be admitted up to 30 years from the date of death.
I didn't think they indicated on Heir Hunters that up to 30 years was discretionary policy.
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We caught up with a couple of episodes this evening and my OH (retd. MN), made a point to which it would be interesting to know the answer.
The case was of Vincent McGarry who had served in the Army.
All service personnel have to make a Will .(and many in the MN ,also)
Would the claims become invalid if a will was subsequently discovered , and how was the possibility overlooked ?
Spring
Lots of wills made in earlier times were "simple wills" which noted the serviceman's next-of-kin and his wishes for the distribution of his assets, but these would not stand up in a court of law, because they were not properly witnessed. Modern servicemen do have the ability to draw up legal wills, but I'm not sure how long they have had this option.
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Bona Vacantia list
For some reason, I've started to record the list each week. Not that I think there will be anyone on there to inherit from.
Interesting to see how long some estates take to get to the list. One today from 2000 and one from 1991.
It's the duty of the executor of an estate to make sure that they explore all avenues in finding heirs (or a will) and this process can take some time. Most of the cases that make it on to the bona vacantia list will already have been researched by at least one company, because the average person acting as executor won't be able to do the searches themselves. Also note that the episodes now being screened in the UK are repeats of earlier series, which have been tacked on to the current series.
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An 89 year old rellie, suddenly divulged yesterday, at a family gathering, that whilst he was away, at sea, during the first part of WW2, his solicitor, who administered his late father's Estate, had 'allowed someone to commence building on a large plot of land', which was supposed to be held 'in trust' for this rellie, from his late father.
TEN houses were being built on the plot and this was only discovered when said rellie, returned on shore leave and just happened to stroll past 'his plot' and discovered 10 houses being built on it.
The same day, his solicitor (who was his father's solicitor) convinced him, that as the country was at war, none of the same rules applied, and that as part of the war effort, said plot had been commandeered for the building of houses.
Has anyone else heard of this phenomenon?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Thanks Nick,
I know our retirement Estate (for ret'd MN / RN personnel) requires all of us to make wills . and to say with whom they are lodged.
Eliminately sensible .
Danchaslyn,
That sounds like a scam to me. Even if the land had been compulsorily purchased there would have been money to come!and legal documents.to prove this transaction.
certainly most unlikely during the first part of the war.
My Grandpa was a builder and had land during the War. But in no case was he made to build on it . Too many houses needed rebuilding / repairing.
Spring
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not heard of land being commandeered for house building, compulsary purchased yes (this happened alot after the war for housing estates to be built) but not commandeered. In my own area of Essex all housing development was put on hold for the duration of the hostilities and were only resummed in late '45.
old rowley
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Hello Springbok & Old Rowley
The "owner" of the plot, the son of the father, who left it to him 'in trust', when we queried it with him yesterday, saying "It can't be right, how can your solicitor say it was taken for the war effort", said:
As he had such limited time ashore (understandably) and each shore leave had to be spent, not only with his wife and children, but organising repairs to the neighbouring six houses, to the plot, which were let, he 'let it go', i.e couldn't cope with it.
He in later years has 'dealt' with the grandson solicitor, of his original solicitor, (also, obviously his father's solicitor) and gave us details of the firm!
At the end of the war, after his return home, he gradually sold off the six houses, but never did anything about the plot being taken away from him.
Is it to late, do you think, for the family to initiate an investigation?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Hi Danchaslyn,
Whilst I don't know the legal position, it might be worth your while to ask for an appointment with a Lawyer (one specializing in Wills/Trusts)at your local Citizens Advice Bureau.
I remember that you could get a 20min. consultation for Free.
Not sure if that still applies but no harm in asking.
Spring
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A lil Message for anyone who can help
can you tell me how i can find out about a bill of sale .and also get a will translated?
my grt grt grt granpa william buckley 1800 born in nantwich was a cooper and had a shop i think in the high street, he must have done pretty well as he and the wife and family moved to Stokehall Farm in cheshire..
going by his will he left all his wordly possessions to his wife mary and the kids..
the next thing i find is that wife Mary had left the stokehall and the farm to live with her sons on their farm.
i have tried to google to see if i can find out this info but no luck so far...
seeing as on the programme you guys seem tobe able to get these things relatively easy(though not all the time)
i thought i'd ask you and see if you know...where i can go .......
Stokehall was a very large estate which i believ now from the photograph i have , they have made it into flats...wht a shame and to be honest i did feel as my family had lived and worked so hard there i felt sad.but i guess its the signof the times.
if you can or anyone can help
i'd be so greatfull.thanking you in advance.
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:)
Hello Spring
What a great idea.................will certainly do as you suggest.
Visiting the family again to-morrow, so am sure they will be happy with that suggestion.
Thanks again
Danchaslyn
:)
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Danchaslyn
Before you make any appointments, I would have thought the best place to start with is a copy of the will to see if it states about land being held in trust.
Then to ascertain if the father 'disposed' of the land before he died.
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Elektra
You are SO right, go armed with the "proof".
I have the addresses of the six houses next door to the plot, which was 'comandeered', but not the address of the plot. But, of course it will be mentioned by number or whatever, in the Father's Will.
The rellie son, who told this to us yesterday, is now to old to go and view the 10 houses on the plot, and also lives a couple of towns/villages away.
All this came about, as he suddenly starting discussing his Will and mentioned how saddened he'd been about 'losing' the plot, which had belonged to his father.
Thanks so much for your help
Danchaslyn
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Bona Vacantia list
For some reason, I've started to record the list each week. Not that I think there will be anyone on there to inherit from.
Interesting to see how long some estates take to get to the list. One today from 2000 and one from 1991.
It's the duty of the executor of an estate to make sure that they explore all avenues in finding heirs (or a will) and this process can take some time. Most of the cases that make it on to the bona vacantia list will already have been researched by at least one company, because the average person acting as executor won't be able to do the searches themselves. Also note that the episodes now being screened in the UK are repeats of earlier series, which have been tacked on to the current series.
If this was the case why is the list published at all?
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Cases on the list are only occasionly cases that have been previously worked, they are the very hard cases to work the TS have to give 30 years after the end of the administration it is the law.
The case from 1991 on yesterdays list has got us stuck I cant work out is if is worth any thing
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Yes, but Neil, surely they must have all been researched to some extent, otherwise how would anyone know that there are no heirs ?
I watched an episode from this week last night, where a lady in a shoe shop in Blackpool was the sole heir to about £280,000 and after all the work you did, she didn't sign up. You must have been gutted ! Do any of your researchers ever get "admonished" for giving away too much information ? ;)
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Our staff are given free reign with the heirs they see, they all sign about the same % of heirs if we were to find a week link then we could deal with it but some times you can give away too much some times not enough.
the cases have very little work done on them be for it goes to the TS as no one has authority to charge for there time until heirs are found, if I could be told about the cases early I would be a happy man.
it does mean that if people find run down properties where people have recently passed away then just drop us a line and I can have a look to see if it is a case, you never know it may get on to heir hunters as it looks like we will start filming in September.
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I'm sure it's a tough situation to be in, they need to know enough information to know you're legitimate and to trust you, but give away too much and you've basically drawn the family tree for them. And the added factor that you're basically informing them of a death in the family.
I too saw the lady in the shoe shop programme the other day, that was one where I truly felt sorry for you guys. Purely because without people like you researching it she would have never known.
When it's a family member people knew I can understand, to a degree, going it alone. But when it comes out of the blue like that (the way it came across she didn't even realise the "Auntie" she met just once was her mother's twin!) it's probably worth paying them for the research work.
Neil, do you ever have cases where the person decides to go it alone, but then when they realise how much work will be involved come back to you?
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I wonder if any of the heir hunters are going for the lady with the double-barrelled Russian name on this week's BV list ?
I did a quick search on Ancestry and came up with nothing ! ;) That's me out ;D
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The charges made by Heir Hunters can vary and with a VAT on top the cost to a beneficiary can erode a small inheritance.
Our organisation have a number of articles in the PRESS room which may enlighten many of you potential beneficiaries.
The industry (or profession) needs some control as it is currently not regulated and whilst there are many well established HHs a few could do with improvment.
Regretably many people see HHs as "seedy" and it could be a few genuine beneficiaries have slammed their door in the face of any attempts to tell them good news.
With the BBC's Heir Hunters prog glamorising the issue there is a big interest, rest assured "Hunters" are here to stay, billions go to the state (internationally) and it could be in OUR POCKETS if we know when, how and where to look!
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As potential beneficiaries sign a contract I guess there would be a cooling off period so a chance for them to change their minds.
In order to submit a valid claim to the TS the relationship and therefore the entitlement to the estate has to be proved, I would of thought? And once this is accepted then that heir would become the estate administrator and their duty would be to make sure all potential heirs are located.
The purchase of all the necessary certs [unless needed for research to find the heirs] would not be needed until the cooling off period has expired.
The main outlay would be the time and costs [wages, office etc] in the 'hunt' to locate the heirs. SO in cases where you have 10-12 staff dedicated to one case even if they only spent an hour each on the case would surely out weigh that of obtaining the certs. So if they don't sign/change their minds you have already incurred the main costs to locate the heir.
That's a reason why you look for cases with property/high value, you may fail to sign some cases but that if offset by the potential high gains from the ones you do sign.
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It would be sensible and expedient to be adminstrator of an intestate's estate if both the number of beneficiaries and value are small. For large estates which could be complex a solictor or accountant would be better and safer.
I believe the average intestate estate is 67,000
It is normal also to insure on closure in case other beneficiaries turn up later, the premiums are based on the risk and require a detailed family tree and research.
I got 25% of a 250,000 estate which cost 2,000 to insure and since I knew nobody in the tree for all I know there could be others.
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WARNING E-MAIL HEIR HUNTING SCAM:
Hi RootsChat,
Just want to issue a warning there is an email SCAM circulating claiming to be from the BBC and 'Heir Hunters'
it says the following:
From: Thomas Wellington <bbcheirhunters@bbc.co.uk>
Date: 2009/9/20
Subject: Across Your Contact
To:
Hello There,
I am writing you from Heir Hunters Company in the United kingdom , Heir Hunters probate detectives looking for distant relatives of people who have died without making a will, here is our website page on BBC TWO News,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00cfx9y/Heir_Hunters_Series_2_Hilliard/?src=ip_ra
We came across your email while searching and we will be glad if you can get back to us with your full name, date of birth, address and your direct number if it corresponds with the one on our data base in order to enable us carry out necessary process and to get your claim across to you without any delay.
Thomas Wellington.
Heir Hunters BBc TWO News
E-mail: bbcheirhunters@yahoo.com.hk
IT IS A SCAM PLEASE DELETE IT.
I would also like to take this opportunity to say that the programme and the BBC have no connection with the 'Heir Hunters Association' as mentioned above.
Thanks
Heir Hunters
BBC TV
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I belive the HHA make that point clear on their web site
" Note: We are an independent organisation and have no connection with the Heir Hunters TV program.
" and that includes a link to Flame TV who make that excellent program.
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The point about the scam email is very relevant I have received almost 100 copies of this mail from "bbcheirhunters@yahoo.com.hk" or "heirhuntersbbc@gmail.com" with the subject line "Re: Enquiry Needed" or "RE: Across Your Contact". Please just DELETE the mail it is a scam.
It is very rare for a real "Heir Hunter" to make first contact by email.
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As a further point I only last week heard of "Heir Hunters Association" I have checked with a few of the big firms and not have any affiliation with them or even heard of them, please take any advice given as a advice from a member of the public not some one in the know; there is very little or no support for this "Association".
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The point about the scam email is very relevant I have received almost 100 copies of this mail from "bbcheirhunters@yahoo.com.hk" or "heirhuntersbbc@gmail.com" with the subject line "Re: Enquiry Needed" or "RE: Across Your Contact". Please just DELETE the mail it is not a scam.
It is very rare for a real "Heir Hunter" to make first contact by email.
huh?
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thanks "violeign" well spotted I have edited my original message
sorry
Neil
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I am not so sure there is no support for a Heir Hunters Association.
Clearly professional firms are biased as an association concept may create more competition, but is that a bad thing?
The Heir Hunters TV program now heading to a 4th series has done much to make the public aware of this new breed of researcher a "Heir Hunter" and many people fancy being one - at least until reality sets in, and that would seem a logical role for a Heir Hunters type assocation.
Clearly an association of this type would have to be devoid of any association with professional firms and the media.
The public are also I guess keen to know more about the possiblities of coming into some sudden money, no matter how rare that may be.
I see the job of tracing heirs becoming more difficult as peoples lives are different creating more problems for tracing.
I am sure this is a thread that will go on and on.....
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I belive the HHA make that point clear on their web site
" Note: We are an independent organisation and have no connection with the Heir Hunters TV program.
" and that includes a link to Flame TV who make that excellent program.
are you saying the above email Neil Fraser posted is NOT a scam?
because how ever many times i read it, scam jumps off the page,
or are you part of HHA ? and you want people to pay £20 to join the HHA ,
as i couldnt really understand this bit in your first post ?
"Our organisation have a number of articles in the PRESS room"
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THE EMAIL IS A SCAM! If you get one delete it.
The HHA is an unrelated issue (sorry for the confusion) and is run by websi7 who does want to charge you £20 to join his association. His forum is free though.
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E-mail: bbcheirhunters@yahoo.com.hk[/i]
IT IS A SCAM PLEASE DELETE IT.
That email address is a dead giveaway. A Hong Kong based Yahoo account for a bbc address ;D
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E-mail: bbcheirhunters@yahoo.com.hk[/i]
IT IS A SCAM PLEASE DELETE IT.
That email address is a dead giveaway. A Hong Kong based Yahoo account for a bbc address ;D
Precisely !
I get quite a few emails every week from people purporting to represent one bank or another, and if their email address doesn't match the institution concerned, then it ends up in the bin. Heir Hunter emails without a valid email address would end up in the same place.
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Hi All,
I though you might like to know there are some rpeats of Series One of Heir Hunters planned on BBC2 at 7:30pm starting tomight and tomorrow.. :D
more info here : http://bit.ly/hiersbbc
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oh yes i watched it
and really want to know what happened to the old gentlemens girl friend that disappeared when he returned from iceland during the war...how sad for him
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Hi Oldwrinkle We are related. Carl Franz (Charlie) was my fathers brother. I have a family tree which goes back to 1810.
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Hi Oldwrinkle,
This is rather an old thread so i hope you're still watching!
I used to work with your Uncle Charlie (or Carl, as I knew him) in the 70s and 80s, and in fact lodged for a while in his house in Ivydale Road before I moved out of London and got married.
I decided to register here so that i could do a bit of research, and also so that I could send you a PM with what little I can tell you about Carl to help you with your research. However, I can't seem to find a way to send a PM!!!
From information in the "help" section, it appears that I can't send a PM until I have posted a few times in the forum, so this is the first!
Perhaps a way round that would be for you to PM me, and I can reply to that!
I can't promise very much information, but it all helps I suppose. Let me know.
Keith
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hi keath and welcome to roots chat make a few more postings then you can use the P,Ms so say hi to me then may be post another topic then you are sorted.
neil
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Hello Neil,
Thanks for the friendly greeting!
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Hi Keith welcome to RootsChat :)
Unfortunatey posts on the Lighter Side boards don't count, you will stay on zero until posting on another board. Oldwrinkle is also on 0 so he won't be able to receive PMs until three posts.
Keziah :)
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Hi Bartman and welcome.
You are not getting credited with postings on this board .
Go to somewhere like beginners. and post again!!
That will give you one aat least, then just reply another twice!!
Spring P.S Don't thank me on here!!
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Keith (Bartman) and Ronc - you have been given good advice about adding to your post count, in order to let you use the Personal Message system.
Unfortunately, Rootschat doesn't allow posts about living people, so I would be grateful if you would let me know when you've established contact and I will edit these posts accordingly.
Many thanks
Arranroots ;)
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Hi Oldwrinkle,
This is rather an old thread so i hope you're still watching!
I used to work with your Uncle Charlie (or Carl, as I knew him) in the 70s and 80s, and in fact lodged for a while in his house in Ivydale Road before I moved out of London and got married.
I decided to register here so that i could do a bit of research, and also so that I could send you a PM with what little I can tell you about Carl to help you with your research. However, I can't seem to find a way to send a PM!!!
From information in the "help" section, it appears that I can't send a PM until I have posted a few times in the forum, so this is the first!
Perhaps a way round that would be for you to PM me, and I can reply to that!
I can't promise very much information, but it all helps I suppose. Let me know.
Keith
Hiya Keith,
Thank you for your reply. Due to the fact that I have just moved and lost the interweb connection for some time, I have only just seen your thread. I will have to post in a different part of the forum to enable me to PM you. I look forward to chatting with you.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Bartman, I would be interested in what you know. I am already in contact with Oldwrinkle via email. Carl as you call him was my fathers brother.
Ronc
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Ronc,
Oldwrinkle has sent me a PM with his email address, so I have sent him an email containing all the information I can think of, and I suggested to him he could forward that to you. Hope that's OK.
Keith
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Just to let you know we are in the 2nd week of repeats of HH3 at the moment. HH4 starts next week, and should be on for 4 weeks although they are still in the off line edit at the moment I heard that they were filming yesterday aswell !
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I just found out that I am related to someone who was on the Heir Hunters show years ago as an unclaimed estate.
I discovered this person in my family tree pretty recently, and then today found out about the estate being unclaimed. I am really curious why genealogy work on this estate either didn't turn up our side of the family, or is it that we're too distantly related to qualify?
I'd love to find the episode of Heir Hunters that this estate was on and try and find out more about it, if only to satisfy my curiosity. Can anyone help while I try and read back through thread #1 and check YouTube for old Heir Hunters shows?
I've found an episode list on the BBC, but I can't find this estate listed, it's for John David Roberts, son of the English cubist artist, William Roberts.
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Do you know what your relationship is to John David Roberts? I believe they usually start with the paternal and maternal lines first. I think they only spread out as it were, if they don't get anywhere with the immediate lines.
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There is this episode in series 5 (2014)
The estate of David Hugh Roberts, worth two million pounds, had eluded the heir hunters for five years, but there is fresh hope. ... David Hugh John Roberts died in a modest, first-floor flat.
On the other hand there is a bona Vacantia listing
https://www.unclaimedestates.com/estates/john-david-roberts-669566. D.o.b 1919. Died 1995
Are they two different men?
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Do you know what your relationship is to John David Roberts? I believe they usually start with the paternal and maternal lines first. I think they only spread out as it were, if they don't get anywhere with the immediate lines.
John David was his parents only son.
His father's paternal-side aunt is my 2nd great grandmother.
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There is this episode in series 5 (2014)
The estate of David Hugh Roberts, worth two million pounds, had eluded the heir hunters for five years, but there is fresh hope. ... David Hugh John Roberts died in a modest, first-floor flat.
On the other hand there is a bona Vacantia listing
https://www.unclaimedestates.com/estates/john-david-roberts-669566. D.o.b 1919. Died 1995
Are they two different men?
I just scrolled through the info for the Hugh David Roberts episode, and he doesn't seem to be John David. The Unclaimed estates on BV that you found there is the John David I am referring to.
Here's the BBC article I found today about the unclaimed estate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33705441
So, if I am understanding correctly, it's the lineage of the first cousins of the deceased that counts as a potential beneficiary, and I would be descended from a 2nd cousin. That's a shame, but I'd still like to learn more about what genealogists did discover about his family tree as the artist William Roberts was a first cousin to my great grandmother, they all lived in Hackney, and I'd love to find out more about them all.
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One wonders just how much sideways these heir hunter firms go when looking for descendants. So that means William had an aunt who married. However if these firms only go so far outwards then any more distant relatives don't count.
I find that a little surprising. I would have thought that passing an estate to any relative would be preferable to the government getting the value of the estate.
I would have thought John's great aunt would be a reasonably close relative but evidently not.
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One wonders just how much sideways these heir hunter firms go when looking for descendants. So that means William had an aunt who married. However if these firms only go so far outwards then any more distant relatives don't count.
I find that a little surprising. I would have thought that passing an estate to any relative would be preferable to the government getting the value of the estate.
I would have thought John's great aunt would be a reasonably close relative but evidently not.
William's father had about 7 siblings, not only my 2nd great grandmother. So it did seem surprising to me that genealogists hadn't found those lines. It makes more sense if they simply didn't count as heirs.
I suppose the rules have to put a line somewhere, but it is a shame for distant relatives of people like John David who die intestate that the money can't even go to a relative but instead goes to the government.
I hope William Roberts art that is part of the estate will be able to be displayed as 'national treasures' though.
I was surprised when doing family tree research to find a 14 year old who was listed on a census as being an art student...that made me wonder if he became some kind of artist as an adult. I never expected that he'd turn out to be someone who had write-ups on things like the Tate website as a fairly major British artist!
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Well I suppose you could try writing to whomever is mentioned on the Bona Vacantia and ask what relatives count for inheritance purposes.
Mention what your relationship is to John David Roberts and see if you get any reponse. Worth a try at least.
You know what they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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In England and Wales, where there's no valid will it's only first cousins and their descendants who are entitled to claim a share of an estate.
The official guidance is at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/make-a-claim-to-a-deceased-persons-estate
After a quick look online, I believe the situation in Northern Ireland is similar, but in Scotland more distant relatives are entitled to claim.
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One wonders just how much sideways these heir hunter firms go when looking for descendants. So that means William had an aunt who married. However if these firms only go so far outwards then any more distant relatives don't count.
I find that a little surprising. I would have thought that passing an estate to any relative would be preferable to the government getting the value of the estate.
I would have thought John's great aunt would be a reasonably close relative but evidently not.
They only cover the people who would be entitled to inherit from the estate of a person who died intestate. That is fairly limited. If nobody fits the criteria then the estate goes to the Treasury.
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Lineage ProbateTv new YouTube series - Discovering the world of probate, following genealogists around the world
Get ready to be captivated by the untold stories. Our new series Lineage, follows Fraser and Fraser as they uncover family secrets and reunite heirs.
Episode 1:
Episode 1 is out, completely unknown to the heirs, see how the researchers work to locate next-of-kin, and unravel the hidden truths. Follow genealogists, Fraser and Fraser, as they unearth the truth of Sydney David Allen...
Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RD-tT6i5X8
Episode 2:
In episode 2 of lineage follow the Fraser and Fraser team as they take on the fascinating case of Brenda Cox, exploring the history of the Searle family as the heir George Searle shares an insight into his family connections.
Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-W8kBZ5tp0