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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 29 July 09 20:38 BST (UK)
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Victorian books wrote of the death in 1811 of one John Upton of Desford, who had worked for 93 years as a FWK.
I think this is probably my direct ancestor and am really rather chuffed, it's my closest brush with fame yet! 8) ::) ;D
Does anyone have a copy of Desford burial records for 1811 and if so could they possibly check any details of this death/burial? I realise it probably won't say much but would be very grateful for any snippets.
Muchas gracias :)
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Greeting’s Again Annie……
Fiche No'. DE 370. / 4.
St: Martin’s Parish Church
Desford.
Burial Registers read thus :~
BURIALS ANNO DOMINI.:~ 1811.
John Upton Buried…28th. April. .......Aged. 102.
So that makes it that he started work aged…….. 9.
And worked to the day of his death
to achieve those 93 years as a Frame Work Knitter……….Umm
But to be fair his was the only entry which had an age written down.
MIKE.
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Thanks, Mike.
Obviously the figures are likely to be a bit flexible; his age may well have been a little out. I don't find it odd that he would have started work at 9 or younger; some references to him in Victorian literature state that he worked to the age of 93 rather than for 93 years.
Either way, let's not split hairs -- that's a lot longer than I plan to go out to work! ;D
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John Upton who died in April 1811 is/was my 6th great grandfather. The Desford Parish register is confusing. Someone has inserted 1712, I believe in error. The page prior is 1811 & the page after is 1811 & signed by the official. Then the next following begins 1812.
His son Thomas Upton b 1747 is my 5th great grandfather.
The jpgs are from the Parish registers, 1559-1875 Church of England. Parish Church of Desford (FHC microfilm)
Obituary:
John Upton of Desford, Leicestershirer, died 1811, aged 100. He was a framework knitter, in the coarse worsted branch, and at the time of his decease had worked for one manufacturing firm in Leicester, Moore & Co., during the unparalleled long period of ninety-three years, having commenced his monotonous unremunerative drudgery whilst he was yet in his eighth year.
What is your line from John?
Anne
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Nice one, Anastarr - I've seen the copy of the Desford records but it's good to see them again!
John is/was my 7x gt grandfather, again through his son Thomas and then Thomas's son William.
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That is my line also!! - William & Anne Archer Upton > John Upton christened:19 May 1793 Desford & died 3 Feb 1868 Desford & his 1st wife Rebecca Lester b 17 Nov 1788 & died in Desford 20 Jun 1816; (John's 2nd wife was Anne Fradstain) > Henry Upton christened 13 Jun 1813 Desford & died 23 Mar 1879.- My 2nd great grandfather.
I have a many many pages of the Desford Parish register copied if you need any.
I have probable parents of John Upton (the 100 yr old) as John Upton & Martha Bradshaw & wonder what you think of this possibility??
If he was an infant in 1716 he was still a tiny bit short of the 100 mark, but what the heck. That is still old even by 2010 standards!
John Upton was christened 11 Nov 1716 Woodhouse; parents: John Upton & Martha Bradshaw. Woodhouse is pretty close to Markfield I think?? His father John was christened 19 May 1678 Long Watton & was married 24 Nov 1710 to Martha Bradshaw.
Anne
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I'm descended from John Upton and Ann Fradsham (not Fradstain!).
I have seen a marraige for John Upton and Rebecca Lester but hadn't realised that this was the same John -- are you sure of this? My line is through John and Ann's oldest son, Augustus (I would love to know where that name came from, it doesn't seem to have been in either family!)
I have a copy of John's will, made in 1858, and it mentions his children as: Augustine; William; Charles; Dora; Charlotte; Ann Elizabeth. (no Henry!!) You probably know that John and Ann's tombstone is in Desford churchyard?
re the centenarian John - I've seen trees which name his parents as the Woodhouse couple but I have yet to be convinced. When he married, he was said to be from Markfield and there was a Markfield family of Uptons at the time - for this reason I rather favour Henry and Elizabeth Upton of Markfield as his parents -- unless someone has seen some evidence to persuade me otherwise! :P Although I havn't found any baptism for a son John to Henry and Elizabeth, Henry's will leaves a substantial part of his assets to "his son John".
You won't be able to send pm's until you've got a couple more posts but once that's done, if you want to mail me off the board, feel free though I'm happy to exchange info here where others can see it and perhaps help too.
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btw the Uptons in Long Whatton go back to the mid-1600s but came there from Egginton, in Derbyshire.
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I thought I was descended from this line, thus:
John 1709ish
Thomas 1747
William 1770
but I have William's son John (1793) m. Mary Dexter Desford 1813/14, not Ann, and this John died 1837, not 1868. Their first child, Ann, was born Desford 1815, but thereafter the children were born in Stanton-under-Bardon, down to my father in 1906. Mary is down as a widow on the 1841 census and my line is solid down from there, so the question is - were there two John Uptons born Desford around 1793? His headstone says he died in 1837 aged 44, hence the 1793 birth date.
Can anyone shed light on this?
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These Uptons are certainly confusing and whilst I've got lots of info, I am very happy to hear all other theories as I'm not sure what's going on myself!
I have copied out part of the Desford PRs (it sounds as though anastarr may well have more full cpoies than I) and I have only 1 suitable baptism:
May 19 1793; John, son of William and Ann
this is the one I've taken as "my" John who married Ann Fradsham.
Marraiges are v confusing: I have the following:
- John Upton (batchelor) m Jane Flabel 4 Mar 1790 - I think John may have been son of John and Mary, bapt 1760 as I can't see another suitable John
- John Upton m Mary Jarvis 10 May 1802, witnesses John Roberts and James Kinton
- John Upton m Rebecca Lester July 31 1812, witnesses Sarah ? and Mary Billings
- John Upton labourer m Mary Dexter 16 Mar 1814, witnesses James ? and Ann Upton
- John Upton m Ann Fradsham 25 Jan 1823, witnesses illegible (to me!)
The John Upton who married Ann F was a FWK; it's his will I have, with children named, so I'm confident that he is "my" John. His tombstone implies a birth year of 1793 - 1794.
As to who the husband/s of Rebecca Dexter and Mary x 2 were - any suggestions?!
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My name is also Anne - but there are so many at Rootschat, I was forced to go with something else.
Well it certainly looks like the "plot"is thickening. I am so glad to find not one but two of the Upton line.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: John Upton
Birth: abt 1793
Death: Jan- Mar 1868 - Market Bosworth, Leicestershire
John Upton, age 75, Jan-Mar Market Bosworth, Vol 7a - page 50
Do you have the Death Certificate? If so does it identify his parents?
My Henry Upton was born 13 Jun 1813 in Desford to John & Rebecca Lester Upton; He married Anna Sutton about 1843 & they had a daughter Rebecca born 9 Jun 1844 Market Bosworth & a son John b cir 1846. In Jun 1847 they moved to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on the ship, London. Anna soon died & Henry married again & had a son James Joseph Upton b 1849 in Philadelphia - my great grandfather. Henry was a Framework Knitter and at times listed as stocking Maker, employed in Philadelphia. There were other Uptons of Desford who moved to Philadelphia.
Did you have this marriage?
1821 Oct 01 -Henry Upton, Framework Knitter - Charlotte Hollis spinster Banns Desford
Witt: Thomas Upton & Ann Fradshaw. (Must be your lady, she would marry the next year to John Upton.)
I will go back in my Desford pages and see what else I can find for the Mary Dexter/John Upton family. His tombstone as listed by WGU puts a crimp in who I thought he was.
1812 Aug 31 John Upton & Rebeccah Lester, Banns Desford
Wit: Sarah Nede. Mary Billings.
1814 Mar 16 John Upton labourer Mary Dexter Banns Desford
Wit: James Hannay. Ann Upton.
I have 300+ pages of Desford Parish copied jpgs (you are welcome to any and all) In April I will be in Salt Lake and will copy more. Do you have access to the Parish records?
I would like to collect as much as possible before I go - so I would appreciate any ideas either of you have or corrections or "facts".
Any suggestions of research appreciated.
Anne
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Arrgghh, I'm now starting to doubt my research too! (though there's no harm in things being questioned and checked, is there? ;D)
I don't have John or Ann's death certificate but it wouldn't identify their parents anyway; marraige certificates do but only those produced post 1837, which is too late for John and Ann.
I have seen the marraige enrty for Henry Upton and Charlott Hollis but I had assumed that this Henry was brother to my John.
It would be so useful to find another will; I have the will of Henry Upton of Markfield, 17700ish (not at home at the moment so I can't check the exact date), then of John Upton of Desford as above. We really need a will or two of the generations inbetween!
BTW, William Upton m Ann Archer and I've not been able to find out any more about Ann -- but John names as an executor one William Archer of Newbold Verdon, and I wonder if this was a cousin on his mum's side - I haven't yet traced William though.
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A thought - does anyone have a possible date of death for Rebecca lester/Upton?
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Greeting’s Again. …Annie
Just two Burials for a Rebecca Upton showing......
1816.
St: Martin’s Parish Church. Desford.
Parish Burial Register No’. 41.
Rebecca Upton.
Abode. …Desford.
28th. June.
NO age given…….
1817.
St: John’s Parish Church. Whitwick.
Burial Register No’. 820.
Rebecca Upton.
Abode. ….Whitwick.
23rd. October.
Aged. …72.
MIKE…….
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Thanks Mike, should have known you'd come up with the goods ! ;D
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I am also thinking I need to re-evaluate my research. John & Rebecca Lester Upton are my Henry's parents. I am not sure now who my John is?
Who is the John Upton also born in 1793 m Mary Dexter?
I have made tables/outlines (births, marriages, deaths) for Upton from the Desford parish registers (in Word) and would like to get them to both of you to input other information.
Need to spread out and check other churches in Desford area.
I don't have any information from the cemetery. What Uptons are there?
Rebecca Lester born 17 Nov 1788 Desford to James & Elizabeth Lester & died 20 Jun 1816 Desford m 30 Jun 1812, John Upton. She was just 27.
I thought I read somewhere that death certificates as late as 1868 did have more information such as parents.
Why was your John's will not probated until 1877? I had this reference: "John was listed a a framework knitter in Probate records from "Somerset House Probate" filed in 1877, which gives his death as 02/03/1868 in Desford".
I did not have any information from the John Upton will and see he did not mention a son Henry, although Henry came to Philadelphia in 1847.
1814 May 22 William Drakeley,batchelor. FK Elizabeth Upton** spinster. FK Banns Desford wit: Ann Plant. William Maides.
**I think she is the Elizabeth Upton born 23 Nov 1795 to William & Anne Archer Upton.
William Drakeley was dead before 1841. Two of their sons, Thomas White Drakeley & George Drakeley and their families also sailed on the London in 1847 to Philadelphia with my Henry Upton.
Anne Archer was christened: 3 Feb 1771 at Kegworth or born 1771 in Kilby.
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The only Upton gravestone in Desford is that of John and Ann; I will post a picture of it if possible when i get home.
The only other Upton that I know of who has a headstone at Desford is Mary Grudgings nee Upton, who is buried with her husband Daniel. There may, of course, be others whose married names I haven't recognised, but I'm confident that there are no other surviving stones with the Upton name on.
My line of Uptons moved into Leicester and were buried in Welford Rd. The only other headstone I know of that may be connected is that of John Fradsham, who I believe to be Ann's father; he's buried in Enderby, about 4 miles from Desford.
I have no idea why there was a delay in issuing the probate for John's will, unless it was left until after Ann died as well - another date to check this evening!
Certainly if Rebecca died in 1816 it's entirely possible that John remarried Ann Fradsham. I have seen the entry in the PRs and I don't think it states whether he was a widow or not - can you recheck from your records? How do you know that John and Rebecca were Henry's parents? Do you have his marraige cert - that would give John's occupation -- who were the witnesses?
Times were very hard for FWKs in the 1840's, which is maybe why Henry emigrated. Do you have any info regarding any other Uptons who went to Philadelphia, perhaps at other times?
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Firstly, as promised, John and Ann Upton's headstone in Desford graveyard.
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secondly - trying to sort out all these John Uptons:
There are 2 John Upton and Mary marraiges (1802 and 1814)
I've found the following baptisms for children of John and Mary:
Martha 1802; Sarah 1804; Mary 1806; Charles 1809; Elizas 1812; Joseph 1814; Amelia 1825.
Obviously they may not all be sibs (especiallu Amelia?) but I found these links:
1841 - John age 60 (ag lab) and Joseph age 20, living in Ravenstone, next to Eliza and Thomas Hunt
1851 - John living with Eliza and Thomas - "father in law" (late grocer)
1851 - Joseph Upton b 1816, baker, brother, living with Martha Grant (nee Upton) (innkeeper and grocer))
1851 - Charles age 41 is also a "maltster" in Desford
so I'd certainly think that Martha, Eliza and Joseph (and probably Charles) were sibs, with baptisms ranging 1802 - 1814.
Their father John was b around 1880 so was probably son of Thomas Upton and Elizabeth Holt, and brother to William Upton who married Ann Archer. The timescale suggests therefore that this is the John who probably married Mary Jarvis in 1802.
Comments? Ideas?
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Greeting’s Again. ..Annie…..
John Upton ~ Mary ? ........Marriages 1802. & 1814. ?
1802.
St: Martins Parish Church. Desford.
John Upton. ~ Mary JARVIS.
10th. May. …By Banns.
1814.
St: Martin’s Parish Church. Desford.
John Upton. ~ Mary DEXTER.
16th. March. By Banns.
Other John Upton Marriages Desford.
1812.
John Upton. ~ Rebecca Lester.
July …By Banns.
1823.
John Upton. ~ Ann Fradsham.
25th January By Banns.
Hope this helps
MIKE. ….
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I managed to spend a few hours in the Record Office on Monday and can now contribute some more to the discussion.
My first thought is - since both John Uptons seem to have been born around 1793, the one who married Ann Fradsham in 1823 would have been 30 then - late for a first marriage. His first wife is unlikely to have been Rebecca Lester, with such a long gap since her death in 1816. John and Rebecca, then John and Mary Dexter is much more likely. It seems likely, then, that Ann Fradsham was the other John's second wife, although I haven't explored the possibility of a first one.
Since only one of these Johns seems to have been baptised in Desford, I looked at neighbouring parishes, results as follows:
Thornton - DE 1269/5 1779-1795 - 1793 Mary Dexter bap daughter of George and Elizabeth. No Uptons
Markfield - DE 1729/2 1785-1812 - 1795 Mary Dexter bap daughter of Joseph and Alice, 27 June. No Uptons
Ratby - DE 994/1 1778-1805 (stopped at 1795 for lack of time) No Uptons
Kirby Muxloe - DE 123/6 - 1784-1794 No Uptons
Kirby Muxloe - DE 123/7 - 1794-1812 No Uptons 1794-8
Newbold Verdon - DE 750/3(1&2) 1754-1804 No Uptons 1790-1804
Kirby Mallory - DE 515/3 - 1754-1812 No Uptons
Kirby Mallory - DE 515/4 - 1783-1794 No Uptons
Woodhouse marriages 1754-1797 (started at 1780)
1792 - Henry Upton m Sarah Wire 9 April
- John Upton m Mary Wire 13 Aug
- Benjamin Upton m Ann Wootten 3 Sept
Any of these could have been the parents of the John born 1793 who was not born in Desford.
Woodhouse Bishops' Transcripts - MF 457 (looked at 1764-1803 before time ran out)
Plenty of Uptons, but no Johns baptised around 1793
I looked in the Wills index, but couldn't find one that would help.
Not sure where this gets us, except back to Woodhouse, where the centenarian John may have been born. But no other baptisms around 1793 for a John.
Anyone any more ideas?
Judi
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Gosh, Judi, how long did that lot take you at the RO?!
As before, my feeling is that the centenarian John Upton was the child of Henry and Elizabeth Upton of Markfield; firstly because his wedding registration states he was from Markfield, and secondly because Henry's will starts by leaving his house and frame to his son John, from which I suspect that John was his oldest son. Other children are mentioned!
That doesn't help us with the John Upton/Ann/Rebecca/Mary marraiges though :(
I have BTW followed John and Mary's children through the censuses (as per my post 2 above) and confirmed that Charles does indeed belong in this batch of siblings. Martha Upton was blind and one of her daughters was listed as "partially blind" -- anyone noticed any other blindness in the family?
My John (who married Ann) was a stocking maker, as was Henry of Markfield all those years before. His sons were FWK or wheelwrights/carpenters. OTOH the children of John and Mary seem to have been involved in the alcohol trade and bakers. Has anyone else found any other possible patterns of family trades?
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please see this thread for more re the Markfield Uptons:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=443113.new#new
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On a completely different tack.... Annie - saw you're researching HOLYLANDs too.... were they from Desford as well??
TreeGirl :)
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HI, my Holylands can be traced back in Market Bosworth, I suspect they went there from Desford around 1700 but that's a gut feeling rather than based on evidence!
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Ah - shame! Mine are from Desford and I can trace them back there a few generations from the early 1800's. If you find a link, let me know!
TreeGirl :)
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I am trying to find more info on the Drakeley family. My husband's great,great grandfather was Thomas Drakeley who arrived in Philadelphia, PA on the ship London in 1847. He arrived with William Drakeley and his family as well as Henry Upton and his family. You mentioned that Thomas's parents were William Drakeley and Elizabeth Upton. Is this correct? Also you said he came with a brother George but the passenger list has a William, wife Jane, a George who was 4 and infant Joseph. Any more info would be appreciated.
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My Great, Great, Great Grandfather was the William Drakeley who arrived in Philadelphia on the Ship London with his wife, Jane. Their son, Thomas Drakeley married Caroline Aspell. They were my Great, Great Granparents. Their daughter, Genevieve, was my Great Grandmother. She had a sister named Laura and a brother named William. The Thomases and the Williams seem to be numerous in the family, which leads to some confusion, especially when cousins of the same name are also close in age.
I gather that I also share an Upton ancestor. Am I correct that the brothers who came to the US on the London were maternal cousins to Henry Upton?
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Sorry, I can't answer re the Drakelys but I do have another couple of scraps re the Uptons in Desford.
From the Desford PR (all burials):
Rebecca Upton Jun 28 1816 (which we knew), wife of John Upton Jnr
-- I'm 95% certain that it says "jnr". Now I can't see any John Uptons who were alive and who were the son of another John Upton. So maybe that simply refers to the fact that there were 2 men of the same surname in the village and she was married to the younger of them.
This date of death does rule out her widower marrying any of the other candidates except Ann Fradsham.
buried 30 Jan 1825, John Upton, FWK age 65
- this would tie in with John b 1760, youngest son of the centenarian John
Jane Upton, widdow age 73 - June 7, 1833 - this was presumably Jane nee Flabel who I think married the above mentioned John
Mary, wife of John Upton, shopkeeper, age 59 -- Dec 22 1839 -- my money would be on this being Mary Jarvis; her husband John was listed as a widow in 1841, living in Ravenstone; his offspring were bakers, grocers, maltsters, which would fit with "shopkeeper".
Not sure if this gets us much further though!
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And a few more burials of possible interest to people on this thread:
William Upton age 68, FWK, May 23 1839 (I think this will be the William who married Ann Archer)
Ann age 76, July 10 1844 --- probably Ann Archer
James, son of John and Rebecca - Jan 27 1829 - I have no baptism notes for him
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A quickie re William Drakely/Elizabeth Upton:
found an index card in the Poor Law cabinet at the Leic Records office:
UPTON Eliz 1814 of Markfield (now residing in Desford) Wm Drakely, jnr, of Desford, farmer, is the reputed father of her expected child
So Elizabeth was from Markfield -- so maybe NOT William Upton/Ann Archer's daughter!
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Have no idea if this is even relevant, but doing my family tree and have a marriage of an Elizabeth Upton (born 1795) who married Richard Picken in 1825?
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I did not have any information from the John Upton will and see he did not mention a son Henry, although Henry came to Philadelphia in 1847.
1814 May 22 William Drakeley,batchelor. FK Elizabeth Upton** spinster. FK Banns Desford wit: Ann Plant. William Maides.
**I think she is the Elizabeth Upton born 23 Nov 1795 to William & Anne Archer Upton.
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The plot has been thickening re my John Upton - the one who m Ann Fradsham and whose tombstone is in the pictures shown earlier in this thread.
He is described as FWK or stocking maker until the 1861 census when he is described as "independent". I think I have identified his house in Desford, and whilst not manorial, it was a lot bigger than his brother's, with access to the side so a cart could get round the back. It almost certainly had the long FWK windows (now converted to modern smaller windows) on the ground floor, and may have been a small factory rather than simply a family home (not dissimilar in size to the FWK museam at Wigston - room for several machines inside).
And he left several properties in his will!
So how did he get his money at a time when many FWKers were literally starving?
Well - I also found mention of his brother in law, George Windram (also the executor of his will) avoiding giving evidence at an enquiry into election fraud by fleeing the country! So were there dodgy dealings afoot? Who knows? - I wish I did!
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Hi,
Are we dealing with Thomas married to Elizabeth Holt? As I believe I am decended from a daughter called Elizabeth Upton, married to a Simon Richards.
Nice one, Anastarr - I've seen the copy of the Desford records but it's good to see them again!
John is/was my 7x gt grandfather, again through his son Thomas and then Thomas's son William.
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Yes, Thomas Upton m Elizabeth Holt 1769 - children William, Elizabeth, Thomas, John, Mary (plus any others that people may have found!)
I haven't got any details about their daughter Elizabeth, other than a birth date around 1771. PLease tell us more!
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Well I have an Elizabeth Upton marrying Simon Richards in Hinkley in May 1798, they then settled in Hinkley (Simon was widowed at this time) and later moved to Billsdon.
One son Charles (born Hinkley 1800) married a Holyland (noted your list) in Balby Methodist Chapel in 1824. Their granddaughter born Leicester 1883 was my grand-mother.
Coming back to the question, this Elizabeth Upton is right age and rightish place, that is about all I have. So this Elizabeth, if I could prove the link (the right Elizabeth?) could be 3rd great grand mother.
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Firstly, hoave you seen the marraige registration for Elizabeth and Simon? I can't remember when witnesses started being named but that offer clues.
Secondly, who was your Holyland grandmother? We could well be related!
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Hi Annie (I hope I can call you Annie),
You are right, I need to order the micro film through the FHC here in Ottawa of the Hinkley Parish. As I said I am only just getting back in to Leicestershire, for many years I have been bogged down in London issues, which out of frustration I have abandoned for a time and doing other research.
I hope they recorded "daughter and son of" info or at least the witnesses. Maybe the banns may help. I have one for St Mary Nottingham about 1820 and that does have witnesses and fathers.
My Holyland is Anne Holyland, who married Charles Richards the son of this Simon and Elizabeth (nee Upton) Richards.
Anne was the daughter of John and Judith (nee Parker) Holyland and baptised in Balby 1801
John (the Father) was baptised in Ratby 1770 looks to be the son of a John baptised in Desford 1737
Before that we have a William baptised 1701 and a Thomas 1679 both Desford.
Hope something matches.
John
Firstly, hoave you seen the marraige registration for Elizabeth and Simon? I can't remember when witnesses started being named but that offer clues.
Secondly, who was your Holyland grandmother? We could well be related!
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I'm going to start a new Holyland thread rather than derail this one - this thread keeps coming back to life with new Upton researchers so it would be nice it if can still do that in the future!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545452.new
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I have a connection to John Holyland & Judith Parker... On my tree they have a daughter Frances, who was my 4th Great Grandmother.
John.
Hi Annie (I hope I can call you Annie),
You are right, I need to order the micro film through the FHC here in Ottawa of the Hinkley Parish. As I said I am only just getting back in to Leicestershire, for many years I have been bogged down in London issues, which out of frustration I have abandoned for a time and doing other research.
I hope they recorded "daughter and son of" info or at least the witnesses. Maybe the banns may help. I have one for St Mary Nottingham about 1820 and that does have witnesses and fathers.
My Holyland is Anne Holyland, who married Charles Richards the son of this Simon and Elizabeth (nee Upton) Richards.
Anne was the daughter of John and Judith (nee Parker) Holyland and baptised in Balby 1801
John (the Father) was baptised in Ratby 1770 looks to be the son of a John baptised in Desford 1737
Before that we have a William baptised 1701 and a Thomas 1679 both Desford.
Hope something matches.
John
Firstly, hoave you seen the marraige registration for Elizabeth and Simon? I can't remember when witnesses started being named but that offer clues.
Secondly, who was your Holyland grandmother? We could well be related!