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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: nestagj on Tuesday 28 July 09 23:12 BST (UK)
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Hello - this is a huge longshot we are trying to trace an Australian branch to our family which we lost touch with. This is what we know:-
Ivor Thomas Ling left Snape, Suffolk, UK sometime in the 1900's to go to Australia. By 1914 he's on the electoral register as a farm labourer in a small town called Tallangatta Victoria, Australia; he joined the Australian Army in 1914 in Sydney and his mother (back in the UK) was listed as his next of kin. By 1919 he is back in Tallangatta Victoria, Australia. By 1930 he is now at a town called Meigunyah, Walbundrie in NSW about 90 miles NE of Tallangatta and he is also married by now to an Alice Miriam he's now down as a Farmer. They are both still there in 1936.
I think I have found their marriage in 1920 in Sydney; her maiden name is also listed as Ling ? this could possibly be a transcription error. He also joined the military during the Second World War joining up at a place called Royal Park Victoria. I'm pretty sure I have sound the record of his death in Sydney in 1971 if I read the reference correctly . I can't seem to see Alice's death. Apparently they had three daughters one of whom was called Nancy.
Family legend says that one of his daughters married a David or Donald Mccallum who was the brother of John Mccallum the famous Australian actor; going through the marriage indexes I have found a marriage between Donald Bruce Mccallum and a Nancy Elizabeth Ling in 1949 in Sydney which seems to tick the boxes................
Can anyone suggest how I can do some further research and perhaps find some living relatives......
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Hi :)
Welcome to rootschat.
May I suggest you read rootschat policy on searching for living people.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368728.msg2632620.html#msg2632620
This appear to be Alice's death notice in the Sydney Morning Herald
http://www.ryersonindex.org/
LING Alice Miriam
Death notice 16 Sep1987
Death 95 years late of Bayview, formerly of Walbundrie NSW Sydney Morning Herald 19 Sep 1987
There is a facility on the home page of the website to request a copy of the death notice. This may give you more information.
Cheers
Cando
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Another possibility on Ryerson Index.
McCALLUM Donald Bruce
Death notice 27 Apr 1991
Death late of Toukley
Sydney Morning Herald 30 Apr 1991
Cheers
Cando
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Death mentioned
1349/1971
LING Ivor Thomas
Father William Mother Deborah
District Sydney
A death certificate would give you more information
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/certificateDatesAndContent.htm
It is a cheaper and quicker option to purchase a transcription of a certificate from an authorised transcription agent - usually costs about AUD $17.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm#TranscriptionAgent
You will need all the death details above. The transcription can be emailed to you.
Cheesr
Cando
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Thanks so much Cando - I have had a read of the thread about living people and I think what I've asked and posted is OK but please if its not can you or one of the mods let me know and I will edit my post.
I found the same listings you pointed out to me after I had posted - we must have been searching at the same time......I have asked for a copy of all three listings - hopefully I will get details of the children, grand children and so on and maybe even some addresses.
I have also sent for his WW2 records - digital copies; maybe there will be some clues there also. The amusing thing is is that by his enlistment in 1939 he's knocked 11 years off his date of birth !
Hopefully the info I've requested above will help....one of the reasons that pushed me into this search is that when I was searching on ancestry there was someone else with Ivor Thomas Ling and Alice Miriam on their tree but that was all the info there was there - I have sent a message to them but it was longer than six months since they had logged on so I suspect they are not around......I am optimistically hoping that I may find someone else researching this family
Nesta
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Hi Nesta
They all seem to be deceased ;)
Oh these blokes and their ages ;D However it appears he was in the Volunteer Defence Corps, but 11 years ::) :P However his summary below indicates he enlisted in 1942 not 1939.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/
LING, Ivor Thomas
Australian Army Service#V373736
Date of Birth 4 May 1893 Suffolk England
Date of Enlistment and locality 5 Feb 1942 Walbrundrie, NSW
Place of Enlistment Royal Park, Victoria
NOK LING, Alice
Date of Discharge - 1 Jun 1944 with Rank Sergeant
Posting at Discharge - Volunteer Defence Corps
I hope the newspaper snippets are helpful.
Cheers and good luck
Cando
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Thanks again for the information - whilst browsing looking for Thomas I have found my grandad's embarkation record for the WW1. He was a sailor working on ships sailing the coastal waters of Australia when war broke out in 1914 and so joined the Australian Army (already have his service records) we knew he was in Melbourne but not where now we have an address of 3 Victoria Grove. He returned to the UK in 1921 and married my gran in his hometown and there they stayed !
N
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Hi,
I have sent a PM with contact details of the local newspaper which services the region around Walbundrie and Tallangatta. A letter to the editor with similar information to that given in this topic might be useful in obtainig informaation on living relatives.
regards
Robyn
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Crew on coastal shipping are named amongst the Unassisted Passengers arriving NSW on passenger lists on Ancestry. I have found over 30 arrivals with my grandfather named. He was an engineer on coastal runs between 1900 and 1910.
Would you like to find the names of the ships on which your grandfather worked?
Cheers
Cando
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Sydney Morning Herald, Sat Sept 19, 11987
DEATHS
LING, Alice Miriam - September 16, 1987 at Bayview, formerly of Walbundrie NSW, widow of the late Ivor Thomas Ling, mother of Miriam (Mrs Patton) and Nan (Mrs Austin), grandmother of their families. In her 96th year. Privately cremated.
I can't see a town/suburb called Bayview - perhaps it's an aged care home??
Cheers, Judith
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And here's Ivor;
Sydney Morning Herald, 1 Mar 1971
DEATHS
LING, Ivor Thomas - February 27, 1971, of 18 West St Balgowlah, formerly of Walbundrie , beloved husband of Alice Miriam, loved father of Miriam Patton and Nan Austin.
Sydney Morning Herald, 2 Mar 1971
FUNERALS
LING, Ivor Thomas. - A Service for the late Mr IVOR THOMAS LING of Balgowlah and formerly of Walbundrie, will be held THIS DAY (Tuesday) at 11.20am at the Northern Suburbs Crematorium. Undertakers: Allan Walsh, Chatswood.
Judith
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The 1991 death notice for Donald Bruce McCallum that Cando found shows his wife as Betty, and children as Peter and Belinda. It does show his brothers as John and Ian. As Nancy is given with surname Austin in the other death notices I think we can rule out her being married to a McCallum unless it was earlier or later in life.
By the way, Royal Park is a suburb of Melbourne close to the city centre. There was a large military base there in WW2 and it is where my own father enlisted in the Army. From there the recruits would be 'sorted' and receive basic training or be sent onward.
Cheers, Judith
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Thank you all for your amzing response - more work for me tonight now. I agree that the Donald MCcallum notice looks as if its a long shot although my mother in law is quite adamant about the connection - Googie Withers being married to John MCcallum the actor has also being mentioned .................
To Cando - I would love to find the ships my "Taid" worked on ..........we know he was in the UK in 1907 and he joined up in Australia in 1914 so that's a reasonable timeline.
nesta
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Well just to update you on what I've done;
Have emailed the local newspaper - The Border News - to ask if I can do a letter asking for information to be published. Have done the same for the areas of Balgowlah and Bayview - The Manly News I think. Have also spoken to John Mccallum's agent here in the UK and explained what I was after and asked if they pass a letter on I have written to him (I left the letter open so they could read it) and they will forward it on to him or his family......... I've found the house where Ivor Thomas Ling lived just prior to his death on google maps; Bayview is about half an hour away. Have looked in the phone book for the daughters but too many hits come up. Can't find any marriages for the daughters at the moment.
Thank you all again
Nesta
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Well done Nesta,
Very quick and organised. I hope eyou get responses just as promptly.
good luck
Robyn
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Hello there Nesta and welcome to rootschat
by the look of things Googie Withers and John McCallum are still alive, but don't know if they still live in Australia or England.
So as we are in the realms of living people here perhaps best not to discuss them any further ;)
Jenn
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Working from a Wikipedia entry which gives John McCallum's father as John Neil McCallum and that he travelled to England for schooling I found on the incoming UK port register for 1935 an entry for the family arriving on the Mongolia into London amebarked Brisbane: John Neil landowner 62, Lilian H home duties 47, John N 16, Ian C 15 and Donald B 11, MCCALLUM, all with last place of residence Australia and going to an address in Kirkburton near Huddersfield.
So it looks possible that the Ryerson notice that Cando found IS for the brother of John McCallum. However we have no connection with the daughters of Ivor and Alice, unless the possible third daughter who is not mentioned in either death notice was "Betty" in the Donald McCallum death notice - or if Nancy married him and then divorced/separated and then married/lived with Mr Austin.
Judith
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I assume you have also seen this item about his WW1 military service on a. Australian Defence Force Academy database that draws on a wide range of sources to provide details on the 330,000 men and women who served overseas in the (First) Australian Imperial Force, 1914-1918.
http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/index.html
I see he won a military medal and bar. Judith
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Yes thank you - have gone through his 1st World war Record and have oredered his 2nd World War Record. The Bar he was awarded was for Bravery under fire. He was a Sergeant in charge of Stretcher Bearers and he rescued injured whilst under heavy fire - standing in the open is how its described !
Thanks for looking at that Port register - it does look like its the Donald Bruce in the death notice as it mentions brother of John and Ian.... Mm yes - the mysterious third daughter; my mother in law says something about one girl who came back to the UK . Maybe a family rift - if she had previously would they mention her on the death notice - so many questions..................
N
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The World War2 Nominal Roll also shows that Nancy Elizabeth Ling also enlisted in WW2 her posting at discharge was 102 AUSTRALIAN GENERAL HOSPITAL
I will not post her details as it is possible ? she may still be living,.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/name.asp#searchtabs
Jenn
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Hi,
It is always a possibilty that Nancy Elizabeth Ling divorced and remarried to Mr Austin.
Although divorce was difficult until relativley recently it was not impossible and occured far mre often that is usually agreed.
The NSW Divorce lists might be another place to look however they are only avalilble on line until 1923. But from myemeory they may have been reported in papers of the time even if just listed in the Legal Notices.
regards
Robyn
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Are we referring to possible living people here?
Cando
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As has been mentioned here (and reported) some of these people may still be living, but I see nothing here to put any living persons security at risk. Jenn rightly directed us to the WW2 Nominal Rolls site (which is not accessable via search engines) to get information on a person who may still be living.
We are all living and the mention of a persons name does not put their security at risk unless accompanied by a lot of other detail. Things which may put a persons security at risk are - full names with dates of birth, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses etc, none of which have been listed here. I have no problem with the thread at this stage. I would suggest that if you are able to assist with personal details which may put any living persons security at risk please respect their privacy by sharing these details using our secure PM system. Thank You.....Kris ;)
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Thank you for your input on privacy Kris; it does put my concerns to rest somewhat.
Without seeing the cert it seems to be pointing more and more that the Nancy Elizabeth Ling who married Donald McCallum was Ivor Thomas' daughter as the nominal record roll shows an Ivor Ling as her next of kin. Also her place of residence was Manly; well Balgowlah and Bayview are in the Manly area I believe - well the Manly Times is the newspaper !
How do I look for Divorce notices / Marriage notices in the newspapers.
Many Many thanks to you all for all this help - I know I'm in Wales (the original one !!! ) but if I can help at any time please let me know.
N
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I just had a thought - Probate - so I'm going to put a look up request for the NSW Probate Index which I discovered exists................... I've also found the website for Manly Library who has a local studies / history person so I'm going to email him.
Got to do some work now !!
Nesta
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Hi,
Just a note Nancy was not married when she enlisted in WW2 and the marriage was in 1949 so it is logical that she would have listed her father as NOK.
regards
Robyn
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Yes its given us some of the confirmation we needed that Nancy Elizabeth was Ivor's daughter ; tried to look for more marriages for ling girls to patton or austin but obviously as I'm not sure of their first names I'm not going too well with that....
Looked also for Lings in the WW2 Nominal Roll born in the same place as Nancy (which is dead on with where we think her parents were living). Found one other - William; mmm Ivor's Dad was called William - might look for a William's death.
Have also found a land grant for Ivor Thomas in 1922 in Walbundrie
Thanks
Nesta
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Would have thought that the William Ling would be to old to have been Ivor's son.
Plus his NOK was Timothy Ling
Jenn
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I know just not thinking straight at the moment !! AAAAargh too many Lings !!!!!!
N
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Hi,
Yes there may be too many Lings, as I have found a 1902 birth oin NSW (Whitecliffs) of an Alice G. M. Ling #37360 father Frederick W Ling mother ELizabeth M but she is probably 10 years younger than Alice Miriam Ling who died in 1987est dob (1891/92).
You may well have to get a transcription of the marriage certificate to check what her parents names were, and the death certificate to see who the parents are ( Restrictions may apply see http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/deaths/whoCanApply.htm )
One inhibiting factor is that the persons may be living or only have died recently so available material on them will be restricted.
Can't wait to see what response you get from the newspaper queries.
Checked Victorian recorsds for Alice Ling only a PREMETTA ALICE AH LING b 1895 in Bright to Helena Curry and Ah Ling so while possible not probable.
good luck
Robyn
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Hi
Your letter was published in the local paper today, I hope you get some response.
I grew up around Tallangatta and also know the Walbundrie area so I am very interested to see if you get any results.
mum mum
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Hi again,
Meigunyah would most likely be the property name, not a town. I will make some enquiries amongst people from out that way, see if anyone knows anything.
I see he was at Annandale near Tallangatta in 1919, my parents were sharefarmers there in the early 1950's, so too late. It's just over the hill from home, I will see if Mum can find out anything at the local museum.
mum mum
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That's brilliant about the letter in the paper
- like you I wondered if Meigunyah was a property rather than a town.
The National Archive of Australia today released his World War 2 record to me and it lists his home as Walbundrie and his occupation as Postmaster (unofficial) which again confirms what Mother in Law told me - I can't believe the family knew so much but lost contact.....
Nesta
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Mum Mum
I was out all day yesterday and only now going to post about the publication of the letter. Nice letter anad hopefully will get results. It seems there are Lings still in the area.
Hhope the other papers are as prompt in publishing the letters.
good luck
Robyn
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Hi Robyn,
I wonder if you could try ringing the Walbundrie Store/PO and see if they know of any history buffs out that way.
I just tried to ring but my phone is not working, I only have a mobile and I must have dropped it.
I work for the Post Office and I was going to ask the mailman if he knew of anything.
mum mum
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Mum, Mum,
Was working at Wodonga Family History Library this morning. Seems he was rather widely known with some other members commenting about him and the fact that someone's wife (sadly now deceased) had been good friends with one of the girls. People are talking about it and Lings still live in the area but perhaps no reltions to this family as he only had daughters.
Consensus was thast there should be quite a few around who would remember them.
Will try and call lbefore they close today, if not then tomorrow. Do you know if there is a local history group in Walbundry? They may be able to help too?
regards
Robyn
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Hello Nesta
I think I may have found Ivor Ling's arrival into Victoria
MR I LING aged 29 OCT 1913 on the PORT MACQUARIE ref{B 883 009}
regards
Robyn
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Thank you both for all your hard work - The Sydney Morning Herald have confirmed that they will publish but that I am in a queue but the Manly paper told me to take out a classified ad !!!
I emailed the paper yesterday to say thanks and have told them I will keep them posted.
Better get back to work now.
Nesta
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Thanks for the info Robyn...........
I noticed you're researching the Davies family - Wales - where in Wales ? We live in Criccieth in the North West - right on the coast.............
Nesta
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Nesta,
My grandmother was Verinda Davies born Cardifff 1894, her father was Willliam Henry James Davies b c1863, marriec 1887 Sarah Chilcott, her grandfather was James Davies born c1841 Ebbwvale he marriedc 1861 Sarah Ann Parry b Bristol c 841.
I am fortunate enough to have a copy of my grandmother's birth certificate and her parents marriage certificate (mother given as Sarah Verinder) and details from the census on James family and my grandmother's family. I have traced living relatives of one of my grandmother's brothers. Two of her sisters came to Australia.
So I think they are all well away from where you live.
regards
Robyn
regards
Robyn
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Unfortunately yes - but my mother and all her siblings were born in the welsh valleys (coal mining area) as their parents had moved down there for work in the early part of the century..........
N
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Hello all - still nothing from the newspaper letter - any suggestions would be appreciated about where I go from here.
Nesta
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Nesta,
have pm'd some hopefully useful email addresses for Walbundrie PO and Tallangattan ewspaper.
Robyn
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The National Archive of Australia today released his World War 2 record to me and it lists his home as Walbundrie and his occupation as Postmaster (unofficial) which again confirms what Mother in Law told me - I can't believe the family knew so much but lost contact.....
The record is now digitised online and on his discharge papers [he was discharged at his request] his occupation is now listed as grazier.
Cheers
Cando
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Not really sure as to what you are really wanting to know, that you don't allready have???
Ivor 's death certificate will list his childrens names.
His marriage certificate will list both parties parents names and where they were born and ages etc.
If you are still wanting to know of the McCallum connection you would need to purchase the marriage certiifcate of Nancy ling, that will also tell you her parents details as well as his.
Kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi,
Just trawling back through what's been written, they married in 1920 so the daughters would likely have been born in the early 1920's. That means they are most likely deceased by now.
You have two names from the death notice of Ivor Ling, the parents death certificates would list the other names.
If they married early you may find their marriages. Searching for obituaries on those names may find more, they may even have died earlier and you could get their death certs too.
So I think, death certificate first and see what it gets you.
Check the Ryerson Index for obituaries.
Check for marriages of the daughters, then deaths.
Again good luck
mum mum
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Thank you all for the suggestions - we're actually trying to trace their living descendants - mother in law's cousins or their children. To make contact with them.
Have trawled the ryerson index for the daughters' obituary's from the date I knew they were alive Alice Ling's was the latest death so I wil see if I can get her death certificate.
All the obits were in the Sydney Morning Herald so I did put a letter there but apparently there is a long waiting list; I may email to see if it has been published.
Do you know if I can get a search done of the Probate Index - as if there were wills there may be more info about the children and their children then.
Nesta
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Hi
You can search the 'Supreme court of NSW Probate Index'. I'm not sure how, I used the Albury and District Historical Society to help me find my G G Grandfather's death and the lady there came up with the details for me. They may even be able to help you for a fee, perhaps there is something in the local newspapers from back then. Most of them are on microfilm in the library at Albury.
I was then able to order his will, I cant remember what it cost me but I think it was aboout $40. i got a heap of papers with it, his address and his daughters details as she was the sole benefactor.
It could be worth getting if you can find it.
Maybe look under the resources at the top of the forum or post a separate query.
mum mum
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http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/wills/searchAWill.htm
If you look at this link you will obtain information on searching for a will
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Supreme_Court/ll_sc.nsf/pages/SCO_probatehow
another area available for searching
Jenn
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Thanks to you both - Looks like I'll be making some late night phone calls again ...................
Nesta
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Nesta,
The secretary of the Wodonga family History Association also had a letter featured in the Border Mail correcting the contact information they had published in your letter, evidently it was not accurate.
I hope this brings more success. The byline was hard to miss so it should have caught someones eye.
regards
Robyn
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That's great Robyn - thank you
Nesta
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Hi. My name is Belinda, and all these people are my family. My mother was the daughter of Ivor and Alice Ling. My mother's sister is Miram. My mother is still alive and lives in Sydney. My great grand parents are buried in Snape. I have been there, I meet my mother cousin in Wales, my mother visited her cousin in Snape.
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Hello Belinda
Welcome to rootschat ;D
Nesta will be thrilled to read your post and make contact with you. After three posts are made by you, you can access the secure personal message system by clicking the green icon on the left of the page and then you can send Nesta a message.
Wonderful outcome ;D
However I must add that I had expressed concern quite early in the thread, about discussing possible living people and this has now proved to be the case here.
Cheers
Cando
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hi just making contact from australia about my family connection BELINDA
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my grand father was ivor ling belinda
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Belinda I wish you well. Hope your contact with Nesta is rewarding for you both;D
Cheers
Cando
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Hello there Belinda
Welcome to rootschat
it is very pleasing to see a living contact for Nesta
I am sure she will be pleased
Was there a third daughter to Ivor and Alice Ling? Was Alice also a Ling prior to her marriage to Ivor?
Is there a link to John McCallum the Australian Actor as Netsa was lead to believe?
I only ask these questons for they were covered on the thread and do not wish to invade your privacy or talk about living family members
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hurrah I am so excited - I have sent Belinda a PM. Its quite ironic that the contact has been made as we have only yesterday travelled down to Suffolk to have a holiday and do some Family History research at the same time. Thank you all for all your help and I will keep you posted about stuff.
Nesta
xx
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A thank you to all of you who helped in this search - we have now made contact with our family in Australia and have loads of rellies over there;
The lady who posted to say she was related in fact googled her grandfather's name and found this thread on the forum so the thank you is a huge one cause all of you helped find her.
Remember if you have any queries in North West Wales at any time - give me a shout and I'll see what I can do.
Nesta
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Terrific news Nesta ;D
All the best :)
Cheers
Cando