RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Aldeas on Sunday 26 July 09 15:23 BST (UK)
-
My gtgtgtgrandfather was Edward Edwards a farmer of Migin, Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog born 17.1.1768 and married Elizabeth Hughes in Llanarmon D.C. on 12.8.1794 Can anyone tell me please the dates when and where Edward and Elizabeth died. Edward was a widower aged 82 in 1851 census and he was aged 93 in the 1861 census still farming at Migin. I am also looking for Edward's parents Robert Edwards and Jane ? Robert Edwards was born c.1742. Can anyone also help as to when and where Robert and Jane where born and died. This seems a tall order but all help will be very much appreciated as I seem to be up against a brick wall !!
-
Hi Aldeas,
Welcome to rootschat :)
I think you may mean Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog.
maidmarion
-
Welcome from me as well :)
There is a Llanarmon Dyffryn Clwyd in Denbighshire.
However, if it is L D Ceiriog, I have the parish records.
Gadget
Added - think I was thinking of Llanfair DC ::)
-
Hi Gadget & Aldeas,
I had checked the 1851 census for Edward Edwards, farmer of Migin and it is L D Ceiriog ;D
Where is Llanarmon Dyffryn Clwyd then please ???
maidmarion
-
It's up near Ruthin :)
Not my bit of Denbighshire
I can check the early parish records when I get back from my 'holiday' at the end of the week. In fact, I've got most of the records of the Ceiriog valley parishes and surrounding area - about 50% of my ancestors (and I) came from that area :D
Gadget
-
It's up near Ruthin :)
Not my bit of Denbighshire
Gadget
That's Llanarmon Yn Ial aint it? ;)
-
Yes but D Clwyd's up there too ::)
Here's some photos of Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog that I took a couple of years or so ago:
The Church:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_L07.jpg)
and a general view of the village:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_L08.jpg)
I think I was thinking of Llanfair and Llanbedr mind ::)
Gadget
-
Think I was mixing up my Llanfairs and Llanarmons! Here's a full list:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/index.html#L
I'll check the parish records when I get home, Aldeas. If you haven't got the info you want, can you send me a PM at the weekend to remind me, please :)
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget,
I was a little confused by your mention of a Llanarmon Dyffryn Clwyd so glad thats all sorted :)
Thank you
-
Hi Aldeas,
Welcome to rootschat :)
I think you may mean Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog.
maidmarion
Sorry maidmarion, I did mean Llanarmon Dyffrynn Ceiriog.
-
Welcome from me as well :)
There is a Llanarmon Dyffryn Clwyd in Denbighshire.
However, if it is L D Ceiriog, I have the parish records.
Gadget
Added - think I was thinking of Llanfair DC ::)
Sorry Gadget, I did mean Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog
-
Don't worry, Aldeas - I boobed as well and I was born and bred in Denbighshire ;D
If you'd like me to look up the Llanarmon parish records this weekend, just send me a PM (personal message) on Friday - click on the little green scroll on the left beneath my avatar and send a message :)
Gadget
PS - the bits around Ruthin are less familiar to me as I only have one line from up there and they moved in from Scotland ::)
-
Hi Aldeas
I'm not having much luck with your Edward Edwards' parents. I have his baptism entry (as Edward Edward) on the date that you quote as his birthdate ( 17 Jan 18768). However there are no marriages showing.
Re Edward's death ~ Llanarmon DC is in the Corwen RD. Unfortunately there are a few death registrations for an Edward Edward(s) in the 1861-1871 period in Corwen so it might be difficult to find :-\
I'll see if I can find a marriage for Robert and Jane in neighbouring partishes.
Gadget
-
Hi again
I've checked the Llangadwaladr and Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr PRs for a marriage between Robert and Jane but so far I've not found anything.
Other parishes that I'll check are Llansilin, Glynceiriog, Llangollen (this parish was very extensive and bounded Llansilin at it's southern boundary) and Llanrhaiadr YM. There's also a possibility of Llangedwin or even Oswestry.
It will take a while. I don't have full registers for Oswestry but I think that they are on the online IGI.
Gadget
-
Hi Aldeas,I am a descendant of Morris Hughes the 9th child of Richard and Catherine Hughes of Sarphle and Penybryn,in Llanarmon D.C, Morris Hughes born 25,1,1767 married Jane Edwards,on the 9th of january1798,they are living at megain where their daughter wa born 19th october 1798.have you come across this info previously ?,i will try and see if they do connect,.Kind regards annun..
-
Hi Annun,
Thanks for getting in touch. I do have this information but if you can confirm that Edward Edwards my gggg grandfather b1768 farmer of Megain was the brother of Jane Edwards who married Morris Hughes in 1798 that would be great. I believe Edward Edwards married in 1797 an Elizabeth Daniel of Llanrhaiaidr ym Mochnant and not Elizabeth Hughes as mentioned in a previous posting. I am still trying to trace the dates and place of birth of Edward's parents Robert Edwards born c1743 and Jane both of Denbighshire. If anyone has any information I would be very grateful.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas,your Migin is the correct address,megain is how my family used to pronounce it,"Ok" i know of a Richard Hughes he married a Mary Daniel,his father is john hughes (2nd) child of Richard & Cathine Hughes Sarphle..john's wife is Jane Edwards they lived in Ael y coryn,I will try and find your Edwards connection hopefully in the near future.."Morris Hughes moved to Cocaenog,his daughter Elisabeth married Thomas Hammond Nantur,in 1881 census Henry Hughes clocaenog was living at Migin,il go and see what i can find..regards ANNUN
-
Hi Aldeas,that took a while,but i didn't give up ;D.....Robert Edwards born1743,married to Jane their children at megen are Edward 1768,Anne 1760,Elin,Mary 1778 and JANE Morri's wife,I have seen Edward in the census as being 93 IL try and find out more where they are buried,but we have a little more to go on.regards annun
-
Hi Annun
Thank you so much and well done. Good luck with your research..I will keep on looking too.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi again Annun
Do you happen to know where Robert Edwards of Megin was born in 1743 and do you know anything about Tyn y Fedw. I was told a while ago that Robert had a brother who lived at Tyn y Fedw. I posted a note on the Clwyd Boards but so far had no replies.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas, ill have a look at robert tyn y fedw,i wonder if it was a Richard ?,still haven't found burial yet,but this may compensate, Robert Edwards c1743 married Jane Roberts 1752,the children are... Edward 1768-1865...Elin,1762....Anne,23-may-1760,....Jane,25-aug-1764,Mary..1766...............Edward married Elizabeth Daniel they were married 31-jan-1797 in LLanrhaiadr,Denbighshire....Elizabeth's parents are John1749-1837 and Jane Hughes Ael y Corryn ..., John Hughes is the older brother of, Morris Hughes 1768 -1857 whom married Jane Edwards,..John and Morris are the children of Richard and Catherine Hughes of Sarphle and Pen y bryn,..... Elizabeth's siblings are.......Catherine,1777-1850,.. (1)Edward,..(2)Edward,..Richard,..John,..Jane,..Anne,.1791-1878,........Edward Edwards and Eizabeth Daniel's children are John 1812-1899 married Margaret Ellis ,..Elizabeth 1796-1800,..Elinor 1799-1807,...(2)Elizabeth,..Jane,..Edward,..Thomos,..Evan,...i hope it makes sense,just ask if u need direction, there is a lot more info,..regards annun
-
Hi Annun :)
I'm a bit confused with your dates. You say
Robert Edwards c1743 married Jane Roberts 1752,the children are... Edward 1768-1865...Elin,1762....Anne,23-may-1760,....Jane,25-aug-1764,Mary..1766.
I'm assuming that you mean that Jane was born circa 1752. If so then she would be aged 8 (1760) ; 10 (1762) ; 12 (1764) ; 14 (1766); 16 (1768) when these children were born ???
Gadget
-
Hi Annun :)
I very much appreciate your help but can you check the birth date for Jane Roberts. I think it would be more like 1742 if their first child was born 1760. I have my gtgt grandfather Edward Edwards b1768 LLanarmon D.C. marrying Elizabeth Daniel in 1797 but have been unable to trace her parents or siblings and I understand she is not in the baptism records for Llanrhaiadr. Edward and Elizabeth's son John b1812 was my gtgtgrandfather marrying Margaret Ellis of Dolgelly c1843 and lived with their children at Birkenhead, Cheshire. I haven't been able to trace Margaret Ellis's background either. I am confused when you say Elizabeth's parents were John Hughes and Jane Edwards. of Sarphle and Ael y Coryn although there is a connection as Jane is the sister of my gtgtgrandfather Edward. I hope you can make sense of this and once again many thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi again Annun :)
I have Mary Daniel b1787 of Trebrys marrying a Richard Hughes in 1806 in Llanrraiadr ym Mochnant who maybe a younger sister of my Elizabeth Daniel. Daniel was not a common surname at that time in Llanrhaiadr. I found an Elizabeth Daniel born in 1769 to Edward Daniel and Elizabeth Roberts of Wrexham. On the marriage entry in 1797 for Elizabeth Daniel and Edward Edwards the witness was an Edward Edwards, Sadler. What do you think?
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas,yes i think your right, I went down the same road,to trace Mary Daniel,Elizabeth Daniel is not John and Jane Hughe's daughter,their daughter Elisabeth married Lewis Edwards "tyn twll" Llanarmon,and Elisabeth Daniel marriage 12-8-1797 was in LLanrhaiad Ymochnant .there were cousins of the Hughes in Pen Y Bont,Llanrhaiadr Y Mochnant, You said in the begining you thought it was up in that area,was any of the descendants of Edward and Elisabeth correct.regards annun
-
H Annun
I found a Will on National Library of Wales for Edward Daniel of Trebrys, Llanrhaiadr ym Mochnant who died in 1829 which mentions his children Elizabeth, Edward, Robert, Eleanor,William, Mary, Jane, Thomas (1) and (2) and Sarah all born between 1769 and 1800 and I am wondering if this Edward is the father of my Elizabeth 1769 and your Mary 1787 ?
Regards Aldeas :)
-
Hi Aldeas,the 1752 date was conected with Jane,i could see it had nothing to do with her birth nor christening,and because i have found a conection between the spirituality of Robert Edwards Megain, and Richard and Catherine Hughes Sarphle that date may be a clue to something ellse,....The both family's worshiped at the Llanarmon Church,and at that time had an intrest in the Calvinistic movement.The meeting's for the Llanarmon comunity took place under the roof of Robert's home Megen and allso Richard Hughes home Sarphle and later Penybryn,it could be an entry in a family bible,we might find out sorry if i caused confusion regards annun
-
HI Aldeas.John Edwards 1812 -1899,married Margaret Ellis.1815 -1862,It looks like Elisabeth Jane Edwards their daughter 1856-1928 married a mr Smith. regards annun
-
Hi Annun :)
Yes, you are right my gtgrandmother was Elizabeth Jane Edwards who married a Thomas Smith of Barton under Needwood, Temple Hall, Leicester in 1881. Their son, Frederick Thomas Smith is my grandfather and his uncle Frederick John Smith, Thomas Smith's brother ,was a nurseryman,seedsman and florist at St Leonard's Hastings, Sussex, and in 1895 made a flower arrangement for Princess Mary Duchess of Teck . All the Smith family seemed to have an interest in landscape gardening and both my sister and I seem to have it in our genes too as we are keen gardeners as a hobby !!
The children of Edward Edwards and Elizabeth Daniel were correct as you gave them as they were taken from the LLanarmon D.C. Parish Records.
I also have a Robert Edwards born 24.6.1798 taken from Llanrhaeadr ym Mochant records. Father farmer of LLanarmon D.C. and Elizabeth. Robert married an Elizabeth Davis of Lansilin in 1816 and farmed at Ty Coch, LLanarmon D.C. Do not know if they had any children.
I am still having problems finding where Robert Edwards farmer of Migin c1743-1778 LLanarmon D.C. and his wife Jane Roberts were born and also Elizabeth Daniel of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. Iif anyone has any information it would be a great help.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas, having trouble with my home computer at the moment,im using facility's at local library presently.I was in the process of tracing Robert Edward's,his parents and where he originated from, he may as Richard Hughes was a tenant farmer of a CORNWALIS WEST,there is a West Arms in Llanarmon D.C,so i take it the West's are titled people,and there could be a chance of Manorial or etate records at Aberystwyth or Hawarden library if you care to check ,my time is limited to 60 mins at the moment. regards Annun.
-
Hi Aldeas, Anne Edwards christening took place on 23-may-1760 at LLANARMON D.C The address being Tyn y fedw,i allso have a list of buerials for Llanarmon not 100% shure of their relevance,
Robert Edwards died 23-april-1778 at Megen,Elizabeth Edwards died (sic) 2-1-1800 Megen,Elinor Edwards died 6-june-1807 Megen, Edward & Elizabeth birth of a son Evan 10 -June-1810,Megen,regards annun.
-
Hi Annun :)
I have Jane married Morris Hughes 9.1.1798 Witnesses Thomas Andrew son of Edward and Jane of Ty'nfedw and Thomas Lewis
Ty'n Fedw, Pentre Ucha, Llwythder Ucha and Ael-y-Coryn farms converted into shooting lodges. Just beyond Pentre Ucha is a heap of stones, the ruins of the sixteenth century Crown Hotel.
Thanks for information on Anne Edwards of Tyn Fedw death, Robert's and Elizabeth's , I notice in the Parish Record that it doesn't say whether this was an infant or an adult. Do you know anything about this Elizabeth? Although it says of Megin was she in fact an Edwards as it just gives christian name?.
I looked for the Cornwallis West Estate papers on the National Archives and these will probably be at Aberystwyth. I live in North Wales but I am too far away to get access to check. I have looked in the Wills and found a Bond relating to Robert Edwards estate in 1778 but it doesn't give any detail other than a mention of Jane his wife. There is a marriage bond for a Robert Edwards of Llanderfel and Jane Roberts of Derwen in 1763 but don't think this is relevant.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas, the Anne Edwards entry 23-may-1760 Tyn y Fedw is a christening of Robert and Janes daughter,and in 1778 Hugh and Mary Hughes are residing at Tyn y fedw,i found an entry for Jane Edwards 3-7- 1752 death of an infant,im beginning to wonder wether Megen is more than one household and probably a district or collection of houses,Tyn y fedw looks as it was a home farm.i had a look for Robert and Jane's marriage in Llanarmon,Llangadwaladr,Glynceiriog,Llansilin,i found nothing,i will keep looking,regards Annun
-
Hi
Just thought I'd interupt your conversation to let you know what I've searched through:
Hi again
I've checked the Llangadwaladr and Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr PRs for a marriage between Robert and Jane but so far I've not found anything.
Other parishes that I'll check are Llansilin, Glynceiriog, Llangollen (this parish was very extensive and bounded Llansilin at it's southern boundary) and Llanrhaiadr YM. There's also a possibility of Llangedwin or even Oswestry.
It will take a while. I don't have full registers for Oswestry but I think that they are on the online IGI.
Gadget
I helped a year ago but I seem to have been ignored - extremely rude of both of you ::)
It really is always worth reading the thread thoroughly to avoid duplication of effort.
Note that I grew up in the area and have many ancestors there.
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
I am extremely sorry if I did not acknowledge your posting in 2009. It was certainly not intended as I realise and appreciate the time and effort put in by all searching on my behalf.
Regards Aldeas
-
Thank you Aldeas.
I did spend a considerable amount of time looking as I know how difficult it is to find ancestors with the limited surnames that we all share :-\
Gadget
-
Hi Aldeas and Gadget,you mentioned a wrexham connection with a shoe maker in an earlier posting.
Edward Roberts & mrs Roberts ,Wrexham the birth of their daughter Jane Roberts 5-July-1723,
and the marriage of Robert Edwards of Wrexham Parish to Jane Roberts of Wrexham parish on the 10-June-1747,this is on one entry in the L.D.S,records for Jane Roberts..Jane is 24ys old when she is married and i thought Robert was born earlier than c ,1743,in both family's the ages for marriage is late 20's early 30's, what do you reckon,it's something to work with,regards Annun
-
Hi Aldeas,the info you gave on Mary Daniel wife of Richard Hughes Ael Y Corryn,confirmed a connection ,her address prior to marriage,was Trebrys Llanrhaiadr Ym Mochnant,it looks as if they are buried in Llangollen,at Pen y Bryn Baptist Chapel ,Mary and Elisabeth were sisters.the
parish registers for Wrexham are 1757-1776 and 1789-1820. The records prior to 1757,are I'm informed by the Library service,they may have Bishops Transcript's at Rhuthin and they will be at Aberystwyth,..found Edwards death registration No .I shall try and locate where the graves are,I will look at the Robert and Llowarch Chapel info, cant recall when it was built,I do know that my Taid and his parents worshiped at Llowarch Chapel,and in Llanarmon village there was a Methodist and Calvinist Methodist Chapel,.Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun & Gadget
Is it possible the marriage of Robert Edwards and Jane Roberts 1747 Wrexham taken from the IGI could have been the parents of Robert Edwards c1743 . The date of birth for Robert could have been later, say c1747. I don't have the parish records for Wrexham but if you have the records can you tell if this Robert and Jane had any children, including a Robert.
I notice In the LLanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog parish records there is a marriage
19.8. 1742 between Robert "Edmund" and Jane Roberts of Tre'r Llan. Their children were ELizabeth 23.9.1742 parents Robert and Jane Roberts (LLowarch) and Edward 13.12.1743 Robert and Jane (abode not given). There is no mention of a "Robert" but do you think there is a link.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi both
I don't have the Wrexham registers but I know that others who frequent the Denbighshire board do.
I think it might be best to put up a separate thread about them to get the widest coverage.
Roberts is perhaps as common in Denbighshire as Jones (which I know, having ample of both!) and we are also moving back to patronymic times :-\
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
Thanks for your reply. I agree there are so many Edwards and Roberts in Denbighshire which makes tracing so difficult. I will do as you suggest.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi again
I'm not sure if you have this because I might have missed it being mentioned with all the names being listed but I think that this is your Robert's burial:
Llanarmon DC April 23 1778 Robert Edwards. Abode - Megain
No age given. I was looking for Jane's death to see if there was anything more on her but so far I've not found it
Gadget
-
A possible marriage in Montgomeryshire
21 Nov 1758 - Penant Melangell
Robert Edwards of Llandderfel and Jane Evans of Penant
I've not checked this up at all but I know that my Ellises came out of the Penllyn parishes of Merionethshire over the Berwyns into Llangynog, Montgomeryshire and then to Llansilin/Llanarmon
Gadget
-
Hello Gadget
I do have Roberts burial in 1778 but haven't been able to find the death of his his wife Jane. I wonder if she remarried as Robert died young.
The marriage at Penant Melangell to Jane Evans in 1758 seems a possibility but how would I go about checking? I have looked on the IGI but this wasn't any help. Other than Parish Records is there another source?
Many thanks for kind help.
Aldeas
-
No other source than parish records :-\
I see that there was a Thomas (Jones ? - this from memory) of Llanrhaiadr YM mentioned in the probate/admon for Robert's death and Robert was a yeoman. It might be worth checking up on this Thomas.
Are there any refs to Megain (variations) on the Nat Lib site?
Gadget
-
Gadget
I have a copy of the probate and it was John Thomas of LLanrhaeadr ym Mochnant Yeoman.
I will check the National Library Site.
Thanks again.
Aldeas
-
Hello all
This is a very confusing thread, so not sure if this helps, but the only Robert Edwards in mid 1740s that I can see from the Wrexham St Giles baptisms 1730-1756 is
Dec 14, 1744 EDWARDS Robert s/o Edw (Shoem) of W.R. (Wrexham Regis)
Heather
-
Hi
Thank you for checking the Wrexham records for Robert Edwards and finding an entry for 1744. If you have the parish records for Wrexham I would be grateful if you could check if there is a marriage for Robert and Jane (surname could be Roberts). Robert and Jane's children were born at Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog but so far we can find no trace of the marriage. Their first child Anne was born 1760.
Regards
Aldeas
-
I've checked the Wrexham marriages by banns and licence and there doesn't seem to be any marriages that fit. If the Robert Edwards found baptized in 1744 was your Robert and his first child was baptized in 1760, then I would suggest this is stretching the boundaries of credibility. In essence that he married and fathered a child at age 15?
Have you tried a search of the North Wales Marriage Index? Either online through Genfair or at the Clwyd FHS resource centre.
Heather
-
Hi all
I have asked Genfair to see if they can trace anything on the North Wales Marriage Index. Will let you know when I get their reply.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Gadget and Annun
I checked with the Genfair site and they produced the following:-
1756 Eglwysbach - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE THOMAS
1757 Llanddoged - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE THOMAS
1755 Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE ROBERTS
1757 Betws Gwerful Goch - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE DAVIES
1756 Llandderfel - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE HUGHES
1762 Llandysilio - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE DAVIES
1758 Pennant - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE EVANS
1760 Holyhead - ROBERT EDWARDS/JANE GABRIEL
Do you think either of these could be a possibility? As I mentioned in an earlier posting the name John Thomas was mentioned in the Bond on Roberts death, who could have been a brother of Jane or her father, and the name Roberts is given in the LLanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog Parish records. What do you think?
Regards Aldeas
-
Oh dear - none of them look very promising :-\
I wonder if Shropshire might be an alternative search area.
Gadget
-
Hi Aldeas, hope your keeping well,have you been sucssesfull in your searches, I have found one or two interesting bit's of info which you may know already,or may help a little.
I tried to track Morris and Janes Hughe's movement's after their marriage,their first daughter Jane was born 1798 at Migin,their second daughter Elisabeth was born 1802,at Hen Hafod Nantyr we have seen an Edward born 1801,but it needs looking at ..
The Land owners in LLanarmon were Frederick West of Ruthin casttle,and Watkin Williams Wynn,of Wynstay Ruabon.
Robert & Jane's home Migin was in Llanarmon D.C, parish and Tyn y Fedw Edward & Jane's home,was in the parish of Llansilin,Edward was Robert's brother
-
Hi Aldeas, hope your keeping well,have you been successfully in your searches, I have found one or two interesting bit's of info which you may know already,or may help a little.
I tried to track Morris and Janes Hughe's movement's after their marriage,their first daughter Jane was born 1798 at Migin,their second daughter Elisabeth was born 1802,at Hen Hafod Nantyr we have seen an Edward born 1801,but it needs looking at ..Mary Hughes was born 1807...
The Land owners in LLanarmon were Frederick West of Ruthin castle,and Watkin Williams Wynn,of Wynstay Ruabon.
Robert & Jane's home "Migin" was in Llanarmon D.C parish, and "Tyn y Fedw" Edward & Jane's home,was in the parish of Llansilin,Edward was Robert's brother. Robert and Janes children appear in some records with their names as Jane Robert,Edward Robert, so do Elin,Anne,and Mary .........One of Morris & Jane's grandsons and his family emigrated to the U.S.A,and I have found their descendant's now living in Springfield Massachusetts.Regards Annun
-
Hi annun
We are in Vancouver, Canada, at the moment visiting relatives and just checking our e-mails on their computer. Just wanted you to know that we are not ignoring you and will be in touch again in a week or so on our return. Sounds as though you have been busy with your research. I did see on the IGI some records where the names Edward and surname Roberts appeared for their children Ellin, Anne and Mary and will have to consider on my return. Weather hasn't been too kind to us over the past three weeks but today has been great ...hope it continues!!! Regards Aldeas :)
-
Hi Aldeas. Llanarmon D.C
John Roberts ==Elinor Roberts. married 1704
born 1684 born 1684.
.
.John & Robert.. .EdwardRobert Robert..
twins.17.Nov.1716. 4.Nov.1710 2.Dec.1705--1716
.You can leave the rough wether in Canada,it's nice and warm here in Chirk,have a nice holiday, :)Regards Annun.
-
Hi Annun :)
Back home yesterday after our holiday. From the information you very kindly sent me do I take it that the surname Roberts which appears in some records was transposed and became Robert Edward and Edward Robert (both brothers marrying a Jane) and are they ancestors we have been looking for ?
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas :) welcome home hope you had a relaxing break,
The John Roberts married to Elinor 1704,has the address Llanarmon D.C, FLINT ...and there are no marriages recorded in 1704 in the Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog, so there are a number of questions to be asked, I will check the burial records of LLanarmon D.C first to see if there is a connection,and I'm sure that Llanarmon yn Ial was all so in Denbighshire, and was on the border of Flintshire. Do you have these people ?,they are Elisabeth Daniel's relations I take it .
Robert Daniel =Elisabeth of Trebrys.
sons, Edward .& . Robert
born .1 Nov 1809 9 Nov 1810.
do you recall Thomas Andrew a witness of Morris and Janes marriage ,I found him on a census living in Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd,
was he the son of Edward & Jane Tyn y fedw.
So Robert Edwards & Edward EDWARDS both married to a Jane,is correct, Their Llanarmon D.C ancestors ? ???..they need checking,Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun and Aldeas,
This may well be a source that one or both of you have sucked dry long ago, but I just thought that it might be worth posting a link to some of the material on the Sarffle/Sarphle family to be found in the archives of the RootsWeb Clwyd List (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/clwyd/2007-05/1179163887). If those and related messages are all very stale info for you, at least the link might help some future reader of this thread.
I am afraid that otherwise I know next to nothing about the families you are researching. Ref. Replies 14, 16 and 20, I observe that Hafina Clwyd attributed an alternative (additional?) wife to the Morris Hughes who was b.1768, and a different house:
The youngest of Sarffle's ten children was Morris (1768-1857) of Plas, Clocaenog near Ruthin and he married Mary daughter of Cadwaladr Thomas, Penlan, Gwyddelwern.
So some reconciliation-of-source work probably required on that sub-issue. I see that Reply 16 does mention that "Morris Hughes moved to C[l]ocaenog". Reply 14 refers to "Morris Hughes born 25,1,1767 married Jane Edwards", while Reply 20 speaks of "Morris Hughes 1768-1857 whom married Jane Edwards".
Rol
-
Hi annun
According to the LLanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog Parish Records Jane Edwards married Morris Hughes 9.1.1798 Witnesses Thomas Andrew and Thomas Lewis. This Thomas Andrew must be an earlier Thomas, say, c1762. There is a Thomas Andrew born 22.5.1804 given as the son of Edward Andrew and Jane of Tyn y Fedw. Edward Andrew and widow Jane Evans of Llansilin married 6.8.1802 Witnesses Edward Edwards and Thomas Jones. I am assuming there could be a connection between the Edwards and Andrew families of Tyn y Fedw but how. Do you think we will ever get the answers?
I do have Robert Daniel and Elizabeth of Trebrys and their 2 sons. I also have an Elizabeth 1814.
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas .Thanks ROL for posting the link relating to Morris Hughes...Aldeas is a descendant of Edward Edwards the brother of Morris Hughes's first wife Jane,the family that Hefina refers to whom emigrated to the U.S.A and the family which I'm descended from are the product of Morris & Jane's marriage (Llanarmon D.C). Mary their daughter married a Hughes with Gwerclas and Llwynsaint family connections..as for Morris's second wife Mary Thomas,Cadwaladr Thomas's daughter, I'm unsure.and as for "Plas",they may have lived there,the 1851 Census for Tre'r Park and Morris's death certificate indicate that he is residing at "Park" Clocaenog.Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun,
... as for Morris's second wife Mary Thomas,Cadwaladr Thomas's daughter, I'm unsure ...
Me too! Before seeing Hafina Clwyd's post, had you ever come across any sign of this Mary Thomas, I wonder; I see now from the topic you started in July headed Hughes Llanarmon D.C,and Clocaenog (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,466156.msg3265918.html#msg3265918), which has yet to garner any responses, that the concept of a second wife for Morris was not new to you. I wonder what the extra pointers were that prompted you write in that opening post "Im aware that Morris Hughes had more than one marriage at Glynceiriog and Clocaenog" -- and whether those pointers fit in with Hafina Clwyd's info, or perhaps actually contradict it. (I suppose wife no. 2 might just appear in the 1841 census.)
... as for "Plas",they may have lived there,the 1851 Census for Tre'r Park and Morris's death certificate indicate that he is residing at "Park" Clocaenog.
Yes, I would hazard a guess that the two names do refer to the same house. Maybe someone with detailed local knowledge will help us with that point.
Ref. my last post, I wonder whether you are able to shed any light on whether Morris Hughes's correct dates of birth/baptism fell in 1767 or in 1768?
... the family which I'm descended from are the product of Morris & Jane's marriage (Llanarmon D.C). Mary their daughter married a Hughes with Gwerclas and Llwynsaint family connections.
That is interesting. My apologies to Aldeas for straying away from his main (Edwards) focus; but your remark about connections with Gwerclas and Llwynsaint is new on this thread -- although I have now just seen from the 8 July topic, started on the Denbighshire Lookup Offers board, that you did touch on the subject there. If (but really only if) you have the relevant file easily and conveniently accessible, it would be nice to have some chapter and verse on the exact link.
Rol
-
According to LLanarmon Parish Records Jane Edwards 1764 was the SECOND wife of Morris Hughes of Sarphle. They married 9.1.1798 Llanarmon D.C. Morris's FIRST marriage was to Mary Cadwaladr Thomas of Glyn Ceiriog on 25.5.1792. As far as I can tell they had one child Edward Hughes born 18.7.1793 LLoran. Don't know if Edward Hughes lived and how Mary died...could have been in childbirth?
Aldeas
-
Good, that provides a useful step towards clarity about the marriage sub-plot -- many thanks, Aldeas.
Rol
-
Hi Annun & Gadget
I found the following on the Familysearch Beta site: Robert Edwards born January 1737, Selattyn, Shropshire, England. Father's name Robert Edwards. It doesn't give any mother's name or mention Robert's marriage to Jane but it is the nearest I have found to his possible birth date. What do you think?
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas, Selatyn shows promise,I looked at Genuki for any clues and found a number of Edwards those we know about and others that could be related and it's the same with the Daniel's family.
Today I found that the Maurice Hughes who married Mary Thomas in 1792 is not our Morris Hughes who married Jane Edwards on January 9 1798.
Maurice Hughes otp Bachelor Bans whiteness Thomas Hughes
Mary Thomas otp Spinster & John Thomas.
Morris Hughes otp Bachelor Bans whiteness Thomas Andrew
Jane Edwards otp Spinster. & Thomas Lewis
Our Morris is not widowed....... the Mary Thomas has relatives at Lloran. Lewis and CatherinThomas.
In 1762 there was a burial of a Thomas Jones the son of John of Megen,not shure about any connection......but pre the 1740 to late 1750 there were Edward's family living at.Lloran and there a lot of Edwards in that district of Llangadwaladr,& Nantyr, PR Llansilin & Llanarmon. Regards Annun
-
Hmmm.
Good, that provides a useful step towards clarity about the marriage sub-plot ...
P'raps not then . . . In this game clarity can be a will o' the wisp.
Rol
-
Hi Aldeas, found this one in the IGI today, William Edwards christening 18 December 1814 parents Edwd Edwards & Elizth Daniel Llanarmon D.C. I will go and check the parish registers..I find Robert Edwards at Tynyfedw Llanarmon,perhaps Jane was from Selatyn,and there are Edwards family in Selatyn back into the 1600's..I don't understand why Elisabeth is a Daniel in this entry they have 4 other kids since their marriage in 1797.or is it someone with same name.Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun
Sorry not to have replied earlier but we have been away again for the past three weeks so my research has ben neglected somewhat. The William Edwards you found on the IGI christening 18 December 1814 parents Edwd Edwards & Elizth Daniel Llanarmon D.C. is a possibility and new to me. I have only looked at the Parish Records for Llanarmon up until 1812 so will be interested to know if there were more children. I found an entry on the IGI Family Search for the marriage of Robert Edwards and Jane Jones, May 1753 St Oswald, Oswestry, Shropshire which is also a possibility. With a popular name like Robert Edwards it has become difficult to prove. :-\
Regards Aldeas.
-
Hi Annun
I found a marriage 1.3.1756 on the IGI for Robert Edwards widower of Llansantffraid Glan Conwy and Jane Thomas widow of Eglwys Fach, Denbigh . They had a son Robert born Eglwys Fach 7.4.1758. They could have moved to Tyn y Fedw, LLansilin when Ann was born 23.5.1760. When Robert died LLanarmon in 1778 the name John Thomas appears as a guarantor on the Probate Bond. He could have been a relative by marriage. What do you think ?
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas,
William Edwards widow 65ys Llanarmon D.C born1814/16
Margaret Edwards daughter Un 24,Lodge Salop born 1857
William Edwards son 11 Llanfechen Montgomery born 1870
John R Edwards Grandson 2 Llanarmon D.C 1879.
This is an entry in the 1881 census for Ty Coch Llanarmon D.C. the address is known to us,Richard & Catherine Hughes lived there after leaving Sarphle and the Edward's family also lived at Ty Coch.The William Edwards,above was he Edward & Elisabeth Edward's Megain's Son.I wonder if any of the above Counties have any clues as to the movement of the Edwards family.regards Annun
-
Hi Annun
I saw the entry in 1881 census for William Edwards. IGI confirms that William was the son of my 3x gtgrandfather Edward Edwards and Elizabeth Daniel. I saw from the census for William that his daughter Margaret was born in Shropshire. He married a Frances Griffiths of Llangedwn in 1844. I wonder how William came to be in Shropshire. Most of their children were born there. In 1851 he was a publican at the Star Inn, Oswestry. In 1861 he became a farmer at Weston Hall , Shropshire and then moved to Penycae, Ruabon. He certainly moved around a bit. Maybe we were right and there maybe a connection with Robert Edwards of Megin and Selatyn, Shropshire. I see William ended up farming at Ty Coch so he may have taken over from his older brother Robert who was farming there in 1841. The 1901 census shows a Mary Hughes, widow, farming at Migin. Do you know anything about her background ? She must have followed Henry Hughes who had married and moved on to Penybryn and later Middleton Farm, Oswestry ? Maybe I need to get hold of a copy of the Shropshire Parish Records.
Best wishes Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas,
I'm certain I saw the Henry Hughes you mention at" Migin"on one of the Census,he was living there with the elderly Edward Edwards whom was
widowed,Henry Hughe's birth place was Clocaenog Rhuthin.
Made an error here EDWARD EDWARDS 19Y's farm labourer 1881 census..EDWARD EDWARDS wid Farmer "Migin" 82y's in 1851....93y's in 1861..
I did wonder wether Henry was Morris & Jane Hughe's Grandson,
because their first daughter was born at "Migin"..and the "Pen Y Bryn"
connection is,Morri's parents lived there,Richard & Catherine(Tudor) Hughes.Then Morri's brother Richard & Catherine(Evans) took over the farm,and their son Richard & Phoebe(Evans) the parents of John "Ceiriog"Hughes The Lyric poet, Phoebe's husband,Richard Hughes died in 1859 at Penybryn Llanarmon D.C. Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun and Gadget
I have just obtained a copy of the marriage certificate from Find My Past for Robert Edwards of LLandderfel and Jane Evans of Pennant Melangell 21.11.1758 being a possible marriage as mentioned in Gadget's earlier posting. The Witnesses were John Evans and John Thomas. As mentioned in my earlier posting the name JOHN THOMAS of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant and JANE his widow appeared as parties to the Letters of Administration (Probate)on Robert's death in 1778 at Megin. John Thomas could have moved to Llanrhaeadr at some date. Do you think I have finally found Robert's marriage?
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Aldeas. an entry in the Llanarmon PR
21 May 1762 burial of Thomas Jones son of John of "Migin",would that have been "John Thomas"perhaps,
Do you recall the posting of the Marriage of "Maurice Hughes"and Mary Thomas 25/May/1792 the witnesses were"John Thomas"& Thomas Hughes..Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun
I didn't realise the burial in 1762 was John Thomas of "Megin" although the entry is given as "fegen". The date of the Probate Agreement I referred to was 1778 so I suppose this could have been the same Thomas family living in Llanrhaeadr at the time of Robert's death. You also have a point about the witness to the marriage of Maurice Hughes in 1792. The mystery deepens. I just don't know what to make of it all !!!! By the way if you want to contact me off the website at any time about all this my e-mail address is (*)
Regards Aldeas
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi Aldeas.
Went to St Garmon's Llanarmon D.C,to see if by chance that if the Edwards family & the Hughe's,whom had family, property and Chapel & Church conectionns whilst living,were they buried in the same area of the Church yard, Result,
Grave (1) MEGIN
Edward Edwards born 1768,died April 1865 aged 97 y's.
Jane Edwards daughter,died August 1860 aged 60 y's.
Edward Edwards son ,died January 1867 aged 60 y's.
Grave (2) MEGIN
Elisabeth Edwards wife of Edward died 26.--1845 aged 76 y's
Grave (3) MEGIN
Robert Edwards born 1730 died April 25 1778 aged 48 y's.
Jane Edwards born 1737 died August 1st 1818 aged 81 y's.
Grave (4) TY COCH
William Edwards born 1814 died 1892 aged 78 y's
&
Frances Edwards..
Regards Annun
-
Hi Annun
Great news. Thank you so much. You have been very busy. Did you find anything out about Jane and Morris Hughes and do you know the date of death for Jane? I have been in touch with Flintshire record office and they told me that Elizabeth Edwards nee Daniel died 26.10.1845. As far as Robert Edwards is concerned...it is great that you have the date of his birth and death of his wife Jane but I am still struggling to find out where they were born and married. Did you see the gravestones in the churchyard or was this information from the church records? The only birth I found on Find My Past for a Robert Edwards was 9th March 1730, father William Edwards mother Jane at Castell Caereinion, Montgomeryshire. I suppose this is a possibility but there is no mention of a marriage. Will keep trying.
Thanks again
Regards Aldeas
-
Hi Annun
I have a copy of a marriage entry for Robert Edwards, widower, of LLanarmon to Jane Roberts, widow, of Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd, on 27th August 1755. What do you think...could this be our Robert?
Regards Aldeas :)
-
Hi Aldeas,
Thomas & Elisabeth Hammond of Hen Hafod Nantur, Llangadwaladr Denb's.Thomas is the son of John & Mary Hammond,of Hen Hafod Nantur,Thomas born 4.11.1802 and christened at Llanarmon D.C. Church, and was married on 25.4.1838 at Clocaenog Church to Elisabeth Hughes born 7.5.1802 at Llansantfraid Glyn Ceiriog, the daughter of Morris Hughes & Jane Edwards.
Thomas Hammond lived and died at Hen Hafod and had Freehold of the Anchor Inn Rhosymedre. A daughter named Jane married a Richard Williams,their offspring become Hammond - Williams. regards Annun
Thomas & Elisabeth Hammond's grave in Llanarmon D.C,St Garmon Church yard is close to the Hughes & Edward's graves.
-
Hi annun
Hope you are well. Many thanks for the information on Morris Hughes and Jane Edwards. I have updated my family tree. I still haven't been successful in tracing the marriage and birth of Robert Edwards and Jane although I did find on "Find My Past" an entry for a Robert Edwards born 9.3.1730 to a William Edwards and Jane of Castell Caereinion, Montgomeryshire, and a marriage in Pennant Melangell, Montgomeryshire, of a Robert Edwards to Jane Evans 21.11. 1758 which could be a possibility. The witnesses were John Evans (possibly Jane's father or brother) and John Thomas who is possibly the John Thomas mentioned on the Bond at the time of Robert's death in 1778, although he was a farmer living in the LLanraeadr ym Mochnant area in 1778. What do you think ?
Regards