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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: nessa on Saturday 25 July 09 17:29 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace Henry Guest born in Rowley Regis Staffordshire in 1811, he married Elizabeth Johnson, they had a daughter Mary Emma born about 1843. I believe they were the last people to live in Netherton Hall, Dudley, before it was demolished due to subsidence about 1865. I can't find any information before 1841 on Henry or Elizabeth.
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Extracted.
WILLIAM HENRY GUEST.
Birth, 11 OCT 1833.
Christening, 08 NOV 1835. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.
MARY EMMA GUEST.
Birth, 19 FEB 1843.
Christening, 13 JUL 1851. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.
Parents:
HENRY GUEST.
ELIZABETH.
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Many thanks for responding. I must apolgise that was my very first post on an internet forum and my daughter has just educated me to introduce myself first! Here goes:
Hi, I'm Vanessa and I've only recently started researching my family tree. I've made progress back to Henry Guest but am looking for more assistance on tracking down his parents.
I don't believe that this the correct Henry Guest as I understand that ours was born in 1811 and not 1833 that this one shows.
I think the Mark Emma was correct though so thank you for this information.
Are there any other Henry Guest' that you can locate?
Many thanks in anticipation
Vanessa
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Extracted.
WILLIAM HENRY GUEST.
Birth, 11 OCT 1833.
Christening, 08 NOV 1835. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.
MARY EMMA GUEST.
Birth, 19 FEB 1843.
Christening, 13 JUL 1851. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.
Parents:
HENRY GUEST.
ELIZABETH.
Hi Nessa,
These could of been children of your Henry (1811) and Elizabeth.
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Possible christenings for Henry.
HENRY GUEST.
Christening, 08 MAR 1812. Halesowen, Worcester.
Parents:
JOSEPH GUEST.
CATHERINA.
HENRY GUEST.
Christening, 25 DEC 1812, Halesowen, Worcester
Parents:
HARRY GUEST.
CHARLOTTE.
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Hello, Thank you for quick reply the Henry I am looking for had only two children Elizabeth and Mary Emma. I can find Henry on the 1841 census and later census but nothing earlier, especially who his parents might be. Again many thanks,
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
Could you post the census details perhaps? I'm not sure I am looking at the right people!
I see:
1871
Blowers Green
Henry Guest wid 58 farmer of 20 acres Rowley
Noah Daniel Allport s in law 30 cow keeper & butcher Dudley
Mary Emma ditto dau 28 cow keepers wife Dudley
Noah Henry ditto gson 6
Alice Ann gdau 2
Clara Hellena ditto gdau 1
Elizabeth Lucy Guest niece 18 milk maid Dudley
Anne Millington cousin 13 nurse maid Dudley
Would you mind posting Henry's ages in the 1861/51/41 census so I can find him there?
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Hi again
I had a bit of a go at this and I'll paste in what I collected together - see what you make of it.
1881
Blowers Green
Henry Guest wid 70 Netherton
Noah Allport 43
Mary E ditto 36
Henry ditto 17
Alice ditto 12
Clara ditto 11
Walr ditto 8
Danl ditto 7
Frank ditto 6
Major ditto 4
Fredk ditto 2
1871
Blowers Green
Henry Guest wid 58 farmer of 20 acres Rowley
Noah Daniel Allport s in law 30 cow keeper & butcher Dudley
Mary Emma ditto dau 28 cow keepers wife Dudley
Noah Henry ditto gson 6
Alice Ann gdau 2
Clara Hellena ditto gdau 1
Elizabeth Lucy Guest niece 18 milk maid Dudley
Anne Millington cousin 13 nurse maid Dudley
1861
Blowers green
Henry Guest 57 horse keeper WHampton
Elizabeth ditto 48 Netherton
Emma ditto dau 17 ditto
Henry Dovey nephew 17 ditto
Charlotte Brookes niece 16 ditto
Stephen Guest grandson 8 ditto
Elizabeth Guest granddau 3 ditto
1861
Hall Lane
Edward Onions 62
Edward Onions son 35
(same address)
Joseph Guest 40 ag lab Netherton
Maria ditto 39
Thomas ditto son 16
Wallace ditto son 14
Samuel ditto son 12
Clara ditto dau 11
Ellen ditto dau 9
Henry ditto son 7
Lilias ditto dau 5
Harriet ditto dau 4
Edward? Onions boarder 30
Next address
Netherton Hall
Samuel Guest 36 carter Netherton
Martha ditto 35 ditto
Maria ditto dau 14 ditto
Louisa ditto dau 12 ditto
Eliza ditto dau 10 ditto
Blanche ditto dau 5 ditto
Betsy ditto 4 ditto
Harry ditto son 2 ditto
Emma ditto dau 3wks ditto
Next address
Benjamin Dovey wid 45 carter Dudley
Mary Ann ditto 10
Benjamin ditto son 5
1851
Netherton
Harry Guest 64 labourer Halesowen
Benjamin Dovey son in law 30 Ludlow
Mary ditto wife 28 Black Brook
Henry ditto son 6 ditto
George Dovey son 2wks Black Brook
Sarah Brookes dau of H Guest wid 40 miners widow ditto
Celena ditto dau 16 ditto
Elizabeth ditto dau 13 ditto
Sharlotte ditto dau 6 ditto
Ellen ditto dau 4 ditto
Allen ditto son 1m ditto
1851
Cinder Bank
Henry Guest 40 farmer of 50 acres Dudley
Elizabeth ditto 48 ditto
Emma ditto dau 7 ditto
Isaiah Addleton serv 13
Elizabeth Jukes visitor 31
Selina Brooks serv 16 Dudley
Previous address
Joseph Guest 29 stone loader Dudley
Maria ditto 29 ditto
Thomas ditto son 6
Wallace ditto son 4
Samuel ditto son 2
Clara ditto dau 1
1841
Dudley
Allen Brookes 25 stone getter
Sarah ditto 30
Selina ditto 6
Thomas ditto 3
Allen Brookes m Sarah Guest Halesowen 31 March 1834
1841
Southall´s Lane, Dudley
Richard Jewkes 68
Mary ditto 55
Sarah ditto 25
Elizabeth ditto 20
Stephen ditto 15
same address
Henry Guest 25 farmers lab y
William ditto 7 y
1841
Black Brook
Henry Guest 50 lab n
Charlotte ditto 45 n
Joseph ditto 15 lab y
Samuel ditto 17 lab y
Mary ditto 20 y
Eliza ditto 9 y
Betsy Brooks 3 y
Children for Harry*/Henry Guest and Charlotte
Sarah Guest 30 Dec 1810 Halesowen
*Henry Guest 25 Dec 1812 Halesowen
*Elizabeth Guest31 May 1818 Halesowen born 21 May 1815
Thomas Guest 31 May 1818 Halesowen
Mary Guest 23 Apr 1820 Halesowen
*Joseph Guest 12 May 1822 Halesowen
*Harry Guest 17 Apr 1825 Halesowen
*Eliza Guest 4 Nov 1827 Halesowen
Eliza Guest 7 Jul 1833 Halesowen
Bit much to take in, and the ages tend to wander a bit but basically Samuel Guest is at Netherton Hall in 1861 and I think his brother in law Benjamin Dovey lived in the next address, and his brother Joseph Guest in the previous address. I could not find Samuel's baptism but think the rest of them are in IGI with the father as either Harry or Henry Guest.
I could not find a marriage for your Henry Guest and Elizabeth - how do you know she was Johnson?
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Firstly Samuel Guest B.1824 (+2) Netherton Hall c.1861
Cross reference his children with GRO records you will find their mother's maiden name is Parker.
Samuel Guest married Martha Parker in St Mary's Kingswinford in 1847. (you will also find this couple in Peartree Lane in c.1851)
Check that source first! Non of the above have even viewed it, yet they are all talking about the next generation back.
On that Marriage Source is listed the father of Samuel Guest who is none other than Henry Guest his profession is given as Labourer. That is a far cry from farm of 50 acres owner.
Next
We are now looking for a Samuel Guest living with a Henry Guest on the c.1841 and you will find them living in Blackbrook Road, Netherton. Where Henry Guest is listed has being a labourer his wife however is a Charlotte and not what everyone in this post is looking for.
Netherton Hall was demolished between 1963 and 1976 you can look at Aerial photography to determine that.
View the sources every single time you look at people study and follow them. I am looking into this at the moment and I will come up with my own summary on my facebook page
Facebook @JamesHadleyTM
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Hi James
This is quite an elderly post and I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I don't see anything wrong with most of the information here and do not dispute that Samuel Guest married Martha Parker. It is worth noting that in 2009 it was not possible to find online the maiden name of a mother for an early birth certificates - this is quite a recent luxury, so not including it does not suggest poor research methods.
The original question was about Henry Guest born abt. 1811 - the son of Henry and Charlotte Guest who you located in the 1841 census. Samuel was another of their children, although no baptism has been found for him to confirm that.
You say that Samuel's marriage certificate gives his father as Henry Guest, labourer, and you contrast this with Henry Guest, farmer of 50 acres. The latter is Samuel's brother.
As given above:
1851
Cinder Bank
Henry Guest 40 farmer of 50 acres Dudley
Elizabeth ditto 48 ditto
Emma ditto dau 7 ditto
Isaiah Addleton serv 13
Elizabeth Jukes visitor 31
Selina Brooks serv 16 Dudley
This Henry (the one being asked about) married Elizabeth Willetts in 1850 and their marriage certificate says that he is a farmer, residing Cinder Bank, and his father is "Henry Guest labourer" so that fits nicely with the rest of the information (source: Black Country Connections site).
Mary Emma's birth certificate (source: same site) has no first name for her but says "father Henry Guest ...mother Elizabeth Guest formerly Willits ...occup of father Farmer ....signed by Mother E. Guest mother Netherton Hall". So by 1844 Henry was already calling himself a farmer, even though 1841 lists him as a farmer's labourer.
As for Netherton Hall, https://www.dudley.gov.uk/media/6298/netherton.pdf states "In 1856 the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway was built through Blowers Green. A hall, the residence of John Bradley was taken down at the junction of Peartree Lane and Blowers Green to make way for it. Netherton Hall fell down a few years later in 1860 due to mining operations in the vicinity."
I don't know how that fits with demolition in 1963-1976, and I have no reason to look into this further.
Any posts made on this site are usually made with the intention of assisting people who are looking at their family history. Some take this more seriously than others, and obviously anyone who wants to be certain of the facts will make an effort to double check everything and look at each source. But that is a personal choice, and we are not all in a position to seek out every document.
This particular family seems to be a typical Black Country Nightmare! The William Henry born in 1833 appears to be Mary Emma's half brother, and his mother was a different Elizabeth.
Have fun with your study :-)
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I'm not looking into the Guest I'm looking into the Foley estate.
I was commenting on the clear lack of sources for the Guest Family which could be achieved even in 2009. Yes GRO is a nice addition to research but there are no reason Parker could not be identified and the marriage sourced with or without GRO. That would open the door to the search for baptisms of Samuel and his siblings given the correct step had been carried out to validate the next stage of research.
You say Henry is Samuel's brother but if the marriage to Parker is not sourced then the baptism are not sourced either. Henry the farmer could be confused with his father,brother cousin or not even related and that is exactly the point I was making.
Please view and follow the sources because people will latch onto any bit of information and think it is fact.
I will continue my research into the Netherton Estates of the Foley's (Robert Foley 1624-1676) because this fits into the history of the Hall.
Netherton Hall become Netherton Hall Farm in 1835 or so. The location of the moated manor house is visible on your map on the North side of Hall lane it was demolished between the 1860-1880 due to subsidence from mining. The outbuildings and dwellings or (Lower Barn) are on the south side of Hall Lane these are visible on O.S maps and aerial photograph from 1880 to 1963 and were demolished between 1963 and 1976.