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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: linnet27 on Wednesday 22 July 09 19:27 BST (UK)
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I wonder if someone can help to solve the mystery of my great grandparents family.
John Thorpe b 1881 Blyth, Notts and Maria Elizabeth Jackson b 1860 Scawby, Lincs. Their children are
John William, 1882, Blyth
Lily 1885, Blyth
Annie Elizabeth, 1887, Blyth
Mary, 1889, Blyth
Charlotte, 1890, Bury. Hunts
Charles, 1891, Bury
Flora, 1894, Bury
Ernest, 1898, Bury
George, 1899, Bury
Nellie, 1900, Bury
Mabel, 1902, ?
Ella, 1906, ?
I've found John & Elizabeth in 1911 at Elkesley with Ernest, George, Nellie and Mable but no sign of Ella. The only Ella Thorpe I can find is with Samuel Billyard in Walesby and it says granddaughter, age 5. However, I have no record of Billyards in the family so how can she be his granddaughter?
I realise I can't ask you to look at the 1911, but does anyone have any thoughts please?
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Are you sure Ella belongs to the same Thorpe family? Do you have her birth cert?
There are only 2 Ella Thorpe births on freebmd 1906 St Albans Herts and 1907 Southwell Notts
Walesby is in Notts
If you check freebmd you will find that Lucy Billyard married William Thorpe in 1906 in Notts
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Hi
Do you know John and Marias parents and grandparents? Also were John or Maria married previously? Is there an illegitimate child (Ella)? Are any of the following familiar Harrison, Darwin, Fletcher, Searcy as a Samuel Bill(y?ld) married all of these around 1870s?
Billyeald or alternative spellings could be maternal grandparents mothers names, previous marriages, adopted children etc. I have a grandmother whose mother died shortly after having her. She was adopted by her elder brothers in laws. It can get really intricate or a red herring!
I can only look up details for Notts and not other counties.
Regards
Jane
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Hi Jane and Carole. Thanks for your thoughts. I do have parent and grandparent information and I don't think either of them were married previously.
Flora was my grandmother, but she died in 1927 when Mum was only 5, so we don't know a great deal about the family and I was trying to put some flesh on the bones rather than keep tracking backwards.
Thanks for the info about the Billyard/Thorpe marriage. John Thorpe had a brother William born 1855. I have no information on him, perhaps he had a son William, so that could definitely be a link. Perhaps I should invest in the certificate for that one. I think I should also send for the birth certificate for the Walesby Ella, to confirm her parents.
There is another twist to this. In 1911 there is another Thorpe listing for Elkesley -
THORPE, WILLIAM HEAD SINGLE 56 BLYTH NOTTS
THORPE, CHARLES SON SINGLE 19 BURY HUNTS
THORPE, ANNIE DAUGHTER MARRIED 24 BLYTH NOTTS
THORPE, FLORA DAUGHTER SINGLE 16 BURY HUNTS
These appear to be 3 more of the children of John & Maria but why are they listed as son and daughters here. Also Annie is married but still called Thorpe.
What a family!!
Lynne
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Lucy Billyard was my great aunt. She was the daughter of Samuel Billyard and Annie (Fletcher) of Walesby. She married John William Thorpe in East Retford in 1906 and they duly produced Ella. Lucy died in Walesby RD on 10 March 1907 at the age of 26, of acute nephritis, caused by tuberculosis. Ella was only a very young baby at the time.
I haven't followed Ella through, but she certainly kept up contact with her mother's family. Her cousin Irene (Dawson) remembered her very well when she was corresponding with me in the 1980s.
I can see this is quite an old thread, but I hope it helps.
Sheila
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I am revisiting this family after some considerable time and have only just seen Sheila's reply. This is very interesting and I think I may have a possible answer and would appreciate any thoughts.
The eldest son of John & Maria is John William born May 1882. I know from his granddaughter that he married in Sep 1908 but could he be the same JW that was married to Lucy Billyard? Is it possible that Ella was taken in by Lucy's parents after her death in 1907 and JW went on to marry again and have a new family, (10 I believe).
Maria was born in 1860 so it is unlikely that she had more children after the birth of Mabel in 1902, so this does make some sort of sense (at least to me!!)
Lynne
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John Thorpe had a brother William born 1855. I have no information on him, perhaps he had a son William, so that could definitely be a link.
Baptism Blythe
6-7-1861 John son of Thomas & Elizabeth Thorpe father a labourer
6-3-1859 Henry ditto
8-5-1864 Sarah Ann
27-1-1867 Mary
13-6-1869 Elizabeth
12-11-1854 William
14-9-1856 Charles Freeman.
The William on the 1911 census is in Blyth on the 1881, with his parents Thomas and Elizabeth, he seems not to have married, being single on the 1891 (with brother Henry in Rawmarsh) and the 1901, back in Blyth with his widowed mother.
Annie is called Swift on the 1911. There is a marriage for an Isaac Swift and Annie Thorpe at Worksop Jun Q 1911 7b/104.
There is a birth registered for Flora Thorpe, Mar 1895 St Ives 3b/293. She is with her parents John and Marion on the 1901 in Bury Hunts, Charles is also with them along with 7 other children, quite why they are with their Uncle William on the 1911 ???
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Confusing, isn't it!!
Thanks for the baptism information. I didn't have all of those.
Lynne
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I've just checked the 1911 census where Ella, incorrectly indexed as Ella Sharpe, is in Walesby Notts with her grandad Samuel Billyard, and his daughter Annie. Irene, who I referred to in my earlier post, was Annie's daughter.
Does that help at all?
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Baptisms at Blyth parents John and Maria Elizabeth Thorpe.
11-6-1882 John William father a groom
26-8-1883 Charles, father a groom, burial 25-5-1884 aged 10 months.
23-11-1884 Lily father a labourer
29-5-1887 Annie Elizabeth father a labourer
9-12-1888 Mary father a labourer.
There is a marriage at Worksop Priory
27-6-1853 Thomas Thorpe and Elizabeth LAYHE, are these yours?
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Thanks for those dates. I didn't know about Charles. The next 6 children were born in Bury, Hunts. The final one, Mabel was back in Notts, 1902. Don't suppose she was Blyth?
Thomas & Elizabeth are my gg grandparents. The Layhe family are my next project! It sound a good name to search, but I bet there are lots of mis-spellings!
Lynne
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Lots of the Layhe family in Worksop.
My Cds only go to 1900.So cannot help with Mabels baptism.
There are 4 Elizabeth Layhe baptisms in Worksop, so to get you started,
3-10-1824 parents Richard and Elizabeth - labourer abode Chesterfield Lane. There is a possible burial for this one 22-9-1825, aged 1 abode Norfolk St.
3-8-1828 parents Richard and Elizabeth - labourer abode West Gate.
14-3-1829 parents Charles and Mary labourer abode Low Town
6-7-1834 parents Samuel and Ann postboy abode Lead Hill.
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Thanks for those details. Charles & Mary are correct. I have just trawled through FreeReg looking for births and found 12 baptisms between 1827 and 1847.
Found them on census for 51, 61 and 71 and assume Charles had died by 81. Nothing for 41?
Do you have Worksop marriages? They were both born Worksop according to census.
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I cannot find a marriage or a burial for Charles Thorpe.
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Found a possible death in Notts Guardian July 1873 - Worksop, Charles Layhe 14 July 1873 age 68. No marriage yet.
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I cannot find a marriage or a burial for Charles Thorpe.
My goodness senior moment there :-[ Thorpe--sorry.
Worksop Priory burial
16-7-1873 Charles Layhe aged 68
13-2-1867 Mary Layhe aged 63
The only marriage I have is 5-8-1867 Charles Layhe and Elizabeth Billam.
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Glad it's not just me ;D
If Mary died in Feb 1867, I wonder if this is my Charles marrying again in August. Perhaps he was lonely!
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Sorry, forget that. Charles is alone on the 1871 census.
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There are 51 burials for Layhe at Worksop.
There is another Mary, but too old I think to be yours.
27-11-1867 aged 77
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I think the first one is correct. She was born 1804, so the age is spot on.
I am wondering whether to invest in the Notts FHS cd's. Is that what you use?
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Yes I do. My husband treated me a few Christmasses ago as they are expensive. I recently updated them. Well worth it for me as most of my Parishes are on there, however check them as some are missing.
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That's a thought. Never know what to ask for!
It would be useful as my Dad's family were in Carlton, Gedling areas and my Husband's family were in villages around Newark.
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Carlton and Gedling are both on there for baptism, marriage and burials. My fathers family are also around Newark in the villages, I have discovered some of them in the oddest places too, not where I thought they should have been, going by the census'.
I have traced my dads lot back to a 1610 marriage, strangely in the same village we live in now, how about that for a small world . I have come Home ! :D
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I've come back to this today after realising that I have done little work on my father's cousins.
It looks as if Ella died in the spring of 1923 and was buried at Elkesley from an address on Bunkers Hill, Elkesley.
I have sent for a PDF of her Death Certificate to tie up this loose end.
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It’s strange you have returned to this now! I have been busy trying to find my unknown paternal grandfather using DNA but it’s proving very hard so I decided to put it on the back burner for a while and return to my Mum’s family in Elkesley. Sadly, she passed away in March, a few weeks after her 100th birthday. A bit different to her own Mum Flora, who died at 27. Mum remembered spending holidays at Bunkers Hill and taking food out to the workers during harvest!
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That's amazing!
I feel sorry for Ella who died so young. Sadly, this is the curse of the Billyards.
Next time I am up that way I will look for her grave and lay some flowers.
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I now have Ella's death certificate.
She died at Bunker's Hill on the 16 March 1923 at the age of 16 of bronco-pneumonic Phthisis ie TB, same as her mother.
She is described on the certificate as the daughter of William Thorpe a stud groom.
Another loose end tied up.
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Thanks for that information! I will update my family records. My grandmother, Flora Thorpe, died in April 1927, age 33, from TB, at 173 Bunkers Hill, leaving 5 and 7 year old daughters! It must have been an incredibly hard time. I would like to visit the cemetery some time.