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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Miss Trees on Wednesday 22 July 09 04:41 BST (UK)
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Has anyone had any luck tracing Presbyterian church records in Dublin (particularly from afar)? I would love to locate the birth/baptism of my gg grandfather Henry Wilson (who according to British census and other records was born in Dublin abt 1851), and if possible his parent's marriage.
He married at the Parish Church of St George in 1868 but according to family information he was Presbyterian. At the time of his marriage he was living in the parish of St. Thomas.
Any help or suggestions much appreciated - this is my major brickwall :)
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Ooops I meant to post this under the Dublin forum, so if any moderators feel it should be moved then feel free!
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The Presbyterian records do exist (well mainly exist!) but many of the churches have closed.
My g-grandfather was the minister at the Abbey St Presbyterian Church, which is now closed, but I did manage to fine that the records had been transferred to another Presbyterian church which is still operational, and they were kind enough to extract the information that I needed.
You would need to find what was the original Presbyterian church(es) in St Thomas and St George. If there is a Dublin resident reading this they can give you that information much quicker than I can research it! Then if it is closed email or phone a neighbouring Presbyterian Church to see who held the records.
I should add that 100 years ago in Dublin (and in Scotland) there were various "flavours" of Presbyterianism, as every so often there was a schism on some deep point of principle, and half the congregation would move down the road and set up a new church.
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Found this by using a search engine,
seems to be lots of information that should help
finding where the records might be.
Anne
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06r4/
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You can contact the below website and they can do a search of St Thomas parish for you.
http://www.library.ireland.anglican.org/
They did this for me for free.
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You can contact the below website and they can do a search of St Thomas parish for you.
http://www.library.ireland.anglican.org/
They did this for me for free.
St. Thomas' is Church of Ireland, not Presbyterian.
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Thank you all!
Well... I recalled a long time ago I had signed up with the Presbyterian history of ireland website. There was a technical glitch and I never got my login information so forgot about it, but now I've managed to sort it out. They have a database with some history on the congregations, churches and their ministers, quite interesting. Corisande I might have found your Reverend here, I can PM you some details in case there is anything new to you!
None of the congregations look to be a stones throw from where my fellow was so far. The website says explicitly they don't answer general genealogical inquiries either so finding out who has what records and where is going to be fun! I did check out Proni website but looks like any of the records they hold for Dublin is fairly limited.
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St. Thomas' is Church of Ireland, not Presbyterian.
No matter, I've got a mixed bag with CofI, Presbyterian, and Catholic / Carmelite in my past, so I'll probably need that information soon!
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I just had to read a little further to find some good information and just in case it might help someone else:
http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com/index.php?id=39
I'm too spoilt by the internet these days but this would be an excuse for a holiday just not any time soon!
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Here's the PCI's website with links to a few Dublin congregations at the bottom of the page-
www.presbyterianireland.org/congregations/index.html
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You may get the marriage you are looking for in the civil marriage register as there is a record of 'non Catholic' marriages that goes back further than the 1864 date when registration generally started for BMD's in Ireland.
St Thomas's Church of Ireland church was on Marlborough Street parallel to O Connell Street but it was destroyed by fire in 1922 and nothing remains. The charred records are in the church library on Braemor Road.
The Representative Church Body Library is open Monday to Friday 10 to 1, and 2 to 5
RCB Library, Braemor Road, Churchtown, Dublin 14. You should phone in advance of a visit as it is a small place.
I came accross this bit too
Presbyterian Parish records for the counties of Northern Ireland are kept mainly in P.R.O.N.I., although some records are also available on microfilm in the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast. Records for congregations in the Republic of Ireland are usually held locally by the minister.
Note: There is no one finding-aid that records all Presbyterian congregations in Ireland, from the 17th to 21st Centuries. Consequently, it will require research simply to identify whether records for a specific congregation and time-frame survive, and where they can be accessed
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If there's a query about any particular Presbyterian church I have copy of History of Congregations and might be able to provide dates of existing records, etc.
Note: I was in Belfast today with the intention of checking something at the Presbyterian Historical Society but was told that it was closed as there's no librarian at present (ight be open with temp. cover for a few hours on Wednesdays but best to check beforehand).
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Annie,
You might be right about the civil registration. I did a search on pilot.familysearch.org (which has turned up a few excellent results for me lately) but didn't see anything promising.... it might be easier if I knew the bride's name... but I was hoping to get this from Henry's birth records. However just found out (and I don't know why I never knew this before) that there is a family history centre right near me. It's closed for the next couple weeks but I will be heading there as soon as it opens to see if it returns anything more!
aghadowey -
that's good to know about the Historical Society before I jump on a plane for a Genea-oliday :D
I think your History of Congregations would be the same as what they have on their website? I'm going to read into it a bit more closely this weekend.
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Just an update to my own post and maybe this will help someone else, not sure.
I am very much a visual person (and not knowing the geography of Dublin all that well, being over 10 years since I've been there) I decided to create an online "google map" pinpointing approx locations of known past and present Presbyterian congregations in Dublin, and their approx dates. It has given me a few clues where records for my family could have been generated and where they might have moved to.
If anyone is interested I can make the map public although it's very much a 'work in progress' and not near complete.
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Georgina
The registers of the former Marys Abbey Presbyterian congregation are held by the Abbey Church (often called Findlaters Church) on Parnell Square (formerly Rutland Square).
Contact details:
http://web.mac.com/abbeychurch/Site/Meet_Abbey.html
Adrian
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Thank you Adrian
I tried contacting the church last week as this seems the most likely one. I imagine they would be too busy to do any kind of 'research' for anybody but I was hoping I could perhaps hire a researcher if I knew they actually had the records there.
So far no reply.
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I believe my family attended the Abbey St Presbyterian Church in the 1820s-1830s. They were Scottish and apparently that church was called the Scots Church. Where are the records currently located? Thanks for your helpful post.
The Presbyterian records do exist (well mainly exist!) but many of the churches have closed.
My g-grandfather was the minister at the Abbey St Presbyterian Church, which is now closed, but I did manage to fine that the records had been transferred to another Presbyterian church which is still operational, and they were kind enough to extract the information that I needed.
You would need to find what was the original Presbyterian church(es) in St Thomas and St George. If there is a Dublin resident reading this they can give you that information much quicker than I can research it! Then if it is closed email or phone a neighbouring Presbyterian Church to see who held the records.
I should add that 100 years ago in Dublin (and in Scotland) there were various "flavours" of Presbyterianism, as every so often there was a schism on some deep point of principle, and half the congregation would move down the road and set up a new church.
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As far as I know the best places to try for these are PRONI (http://www.proni.gov.uk/) and the Presbyterian Historical Society (http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com/) in Belfast.
Shane
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http://www.findlater.org.uk/Church.htm
This would be nearest presbyterian church in city centre.
You could try the Braemor Road church records for church of Ireland?
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PRONI is only likely to have microfilmed copies of church records from Northern Ireland. You can check their online e-catalogue or look at the guides to church records, etc. on their website www.familysearch.org.
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I just checked the PRONI film catalog, vast majority of Presbyterian films are for Ulster counties but there are a few for Dublin - Clontarf, Lucan and Naas (listed under Dublin but actually Co. Kildare), no sign of Abbey Street though.
I've seen notes that the RCB Library holds some, but have not seen any list of these.
Shane
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Dublin probably refers to Dublin Presbytery rather than county. This website might help- you can "Find a church near you on a map" and "Find a church from a list by name"- there's also an email address for Presbytery Clerk who might know, or be able to find out, where the church records are now kept.
http://presbytery.ie/
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Looks like the records for Abbey/Findlater's Pres are located in Local Custody only. I'm hoping corisande will pass on contact information for the church :D
I believe my family attended the Abbey St Presbyterian Church in the 1820s-1830s. They were Scottish and apparently that church was called the Scots Church. Where are the records currently located? Thanks for your helpful post.
The Presbyterian records do exist (well mainly exist!) but many of the churches have closed.
My g-grandfather was the minister at the Abbey St Presbyterian Church, which is now closed, but I did manage to fine that the records had been transferred to another Presbyterian church which is still operational, and they were kind enough to extract the information that I needed.
You would need to find what was the original Presbyterian church(es) in St Thomas and St George. If there is a Dublin resident reading this they can give you that information much quicker than I can research it! Then if it is closed email or phone a neighbouring Presbyterian Church to see who held the records.
I should add that 100 years ago in Dublin (and in Scotland) there were various "flavours" of Presbyterianism, as every so often there was a schism on some deep point of principle, and half the congregation would move down the road and set up a new church.
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I have replied to that question to you directly as I don't want to put their email here.
I doubt that anyone will get much centrally on Presbyterian records, my feeling is that most Dublin ones are still with the successor churches.
Let me also add something that I was given by a keeper of Presbyterian records:-
However, I had been doing this for quite a while before it dawned on me to explain to enquirers that when a church moved premises, even though the congregation remained the same, they changed their name i.e. a Presbyterian church is normally known by their location.Therefore, briefly:
1) Bull Alley became Ushers Quay and them became Ormond Quay
Presbyterian Church.
2) Scots Church originally belonged to the Presbyterian Church in Scotland but joined the Presbyterian Church in Ireland in 1929.
3) D'Olier Street, became Gloucester Street and then Clontarf Presbyterian Church.
Ormond Quay Church & Scots Church merged in 1938 to become Ormond Quay & Scots Presbyterian Church, located in Abbey Street.
In the 1970s OQ&S became a joint charge with Clontarf i.e. two separate churches but one minister.Then in 2003 OQ&S closed and the congregation joined Clontarf. We then changed our name to Clontarf and Scots Presbyterian Church.
Scots Church was located in Abbey Street as was Abbey Street
Presbyterian Church which was destroyed - along with all their records - in 1916. The Presbyterian Church on Mountjoy Square, often called Findlater's church because of the association with that family is called Abbey Presbyterian Church. Why I don't know!!
Note the 2 Presbyterian churches in Abbey St. You need to be sure of the one you are researching. It is the Scots Church that still exists, although not functioning as a church.