RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jean McGurn on Saturday 18 July 09 08:29 BST (UK)
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BBC News has just announced the passing of Henry Allingham Britain's Oldest man.
R.I.P Henry
Jean
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Just seen that myself.
RIP Henry
Kerry
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So sad.
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R.I.P Henry
Omega
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Lets hope the country do whats right and honour the last of the many great war veterans. R.I.P Henry and may you fight many great battles where ever you are today.
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I was very sorry to hear the news this morning. May this grand old gentleman rest in peace.
We must never forget them
Rabbit B ;D
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We will miss him. as we miss them all.
With his passing a physical link to that generation may break, but the link that really matters will not pass until we fail to remember them.
Thank you, Mr Allingham, for so much
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Like they say, a person lives for as long as their name is spoken, or for us, written....
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Rest in Peace, Henry.
I echo all the sentiments expressed here.
Maggie
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Farewell Mr Allingham, you were and always will be a Pride of this Nation.
Here's hoping you are now happily chatting away to all those lads you spent your life making sure no-one else forgot.
Your work here is now done, and your rest can now begin
RIP
Glen
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And now the only one left is Harry Patch.
It is the ending of an era.
Carole
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Very sad news, we owe Henry and many many others a massive debt of thanks for what they did.
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Farewell Henry, rest in peace.
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I believe a state funeral has been mentioned previously. Hopefully this will take place, but only if the family want it.RIP Henry 1896-2009
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I believe a state funeral has been mentioned previously. Hopefully this will take place, but only if the family want it.RIP Henry 1896-2009
If I'm not mistaken, only the last veteran was to be offered the State Funeral.
Also, if my memory serves me correctly, both Patch and Allingham refused this honour when it was mentioned a few years ago.
Although we see them as special, they see themselves as one of millions who fought.
It is a sad day though. At least he held on long enough to become the World's Oldest man.
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I thought a state funeral would be fitting, not thinking about his family`s wishes I Perhaps he has said what he would want, that will be the guide.
I was so sad that he could not quite make it when he struggled so hard to lay his wreath himself on the cenotaph.
There was just one WAAF helping him and great strapping men just stood and gave no help, I felt then that how sad if it was the last remembrance service he attended.
It is so upsetting when we hear of another young soldier killed in the present conflicts and I don`t mean to diminish those deaths but it is hard to imagine when whole streets , of Pals Battalions were wiped out - in the first five minutes for the Accrington Pals on the first day of the Battle of The Somme .Brothers and fathers and sons from the same family. Some women lost three or four family member in one day .Every death is one too many. Viktoria
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I know anyone's passing is sad, but it some ways I think it's fitting and symbolic that the very last survivor of the war is Harry Patch - a Lewis gunner who was there fighting in the trenches.
Carole
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How stupid to fight in that way when in Belgium at least the people had flooded the land so the German`s could not properly occupy it so our barmy( and that`s putting it mildly!) -brass hats decided to fight from trenches. For TRENCHES read DRAINAGE CHANNELS.
I agree it is fitting that the last WW1 survivor fought in the trenches. They were the epitome of horror . It is a wonder the troops did not mutiny, but people were much more in awe of authority
and of course "shot at dawn " would have been the sentence.
I asked my dad once "however did you get the courage to go over the top?" He explained that often there was a Military policeman behind them and men who did not go over on the whistle could be shot---there was more chance of surviving if you went over. I don`t know if that is exactly true but when troops were very demoralised I can imagine they needed an" incentive "to go and get shot!!! Such bravery.I get very angry, the cream of youth destroyed by old men. Viktoria.
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How stupid to fight in that way when in Belgium at least the people had flooded the land so the German`s could not properly occupy it so our barmy( and that`s putting it mildly!) -brass hats decided to fight from trenches. For TRENCHES read DRAINAGE CHANNELS.
I agree it is fitting that the last WW1 survivor fought in the trenches. They were the epitome of horror . It is a wonder the troops did not mutiny, but people were much more in awe of authority
and of course "shot at dawn " would have been the sentence.
I asked my dad once "however did you get the courage to go over the top?" He explained that often there was a Military policeman behind them and men who did not go over on the whistle could be shot---there was more chance of surviving if you went over. I don`t know if that is exactly true but when troops were very demoralised I can imagine they needed an" incentive "to go and get shot!!! Such bravery.I get very angry, the cream of youth destroyed by old men. Viktoria.
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Lions led by donkeys indeed Viktoria! Though it is important to distinguish the Officers who led the troops in the field from the incompetent hooray henrys who were the senior commanders. Officers in the field had a very short life expectancy; from memory I believe it was about 14 days.
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Yes Redroger, the 2nd.Lieutenants,often young men from public schools---Eton,Harrow Winchester etc.They were armed only with a hand pistol .Remember the last scene in the last Blackadder when Rohan Atkinson went "over the top"? It`s unbelievable nowadays even though there are casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was blind obedience inWW1. I reccommend a book to you about The Sheffield Pals"Covenant with Death " by John Harris. It`s difficult to come by but so accurate and I think it ought to be compulsory reading for older school children.It may be available on Amazon,
HUTCHINSON LIBRARY SERVICES. My copy bought when our library was having a clear out is from1973 and a little different from the original from 1961 when it describes the strange noise coming from the battlefield ,then it is realised it is the sound of thousands and thousands of wounded men,moaning . It is of course about the first day of The Battle of The Somme. Takes place at Beaumont Hammel on the little river Ancre,a tributary of the Somme. Get some tissues!Viktoria.
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So sad for his family, he was a remarkable man, may he rest in peace & his scarifice & those of all his Collegues never be forgotten.
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Which C.W.G.Cemetery is that? It looks a bit like Peronne, but it is quite some time since I was there.
Wonderful museum, much larger than the one in the cloth hall in Ypres.
That`s very nice collage. Viktoria.
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Which C.W.G.Cemetery is that? It looks a bit like Peronne, but it is quite some time since I was there.
Wonderful museum, much larger than the one in the cloth hall in Ypres.
That`s very nice collage. Viktoria.
Thanks Viktoria
It seemed an appropriate picture to put on a thread about Henry Allingham, as the memorial spans from WW1 to the present day.
All the photos were taken at the National Arboretum in Staffordshire by me, and each individual photo has a significance to my family.
I would reccomend a visit there to anyone - put good walking shoes on though !
Gaille
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Gaille, we are hoping to visit The National Arboretum later this year, have been looking to book a cottage in the Peak District.
Regarding Henry Allingham, my grandfather was born the same year, he enlisted in the Royal Naval Flying Corps at 16 (he lied about his age on his papers). His medals from WWI read Royal Air Force. He too was a mechanic on the airfields of northern France. Pop rarely spoke of what happened, only shortly before he passed away at the age of 94 he mentioned going up in a plane, 'just the once'. He also talked of The Red Baron often flying over the airfields and said he was a very daring young man.
He loved to recall a visit to the RAF Museum at Hendon and telling one of the guides that he had worked on air planes the same as the one displayed. 'Oh no, I think you are mistaken', came the reply, 'these are from the First World War'.
'I know' said Pop, 'I've taken enough of their engines apart and rebuilt them and sent them up again to know which one'.
Whilst stories of Henry Allingham were being told, I still felt that strong link to my grandad who may well have served alongside him on the airfields of northern France.
Pat ...
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I know anyone's passing is sad, but it some ways I think it's fitting and symbolic that the very last survivor of the war is Harry Patch - a Lewis gunner who was there fighting in the trenches.
Carole
Am I not correct in mentioning Claude Choules?
I agree with your sentiments though.
At the end of the day, none of these men should be forgotten.
Dave
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Claude is also British and had been posted to Australia in 1920. When he left the service he decided to stay there. Would think he is now an Australian citizen by now.
Jean
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I suppose the last three survivors represented all three services - and also how there was much more to the war than just the fighting in the trenches. However it is the fighting in the trenches that has come to symbolize the whole war, and as such I feel Harry Patch as the last Tommy, whether he'd like it or not (and I suspect not) symbolizes something more than the other two.
Carole
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My late father, working on a farm nr. Wisbech Cambs aged 15 volunteered for service with the Cambridgeshire Regiment in October 1914 "because he was bored". He was told by the recruiting sergeant that he was too young, but the recruiting unit would return the following April if the war was still on, he could enlist then "only be more than 16" April 1915 Dad put his age up to 19 and enlisted. From his heavily annotated copy of the Regimental History, he never spoke about the war,and a photo I had now I fear lost, I have deduced that Dad was present as a headquarters signaller when the HQ dugout suffered a direct his during the battle of Bapaume in September 1918. Most of those in the dugout, including the Regimental CO Lt. Col. Saint were killed or seriously wounded.He has marked details of a young white faced runner telling Major Clayton commanding the forwward unit of the incident, Clayton became CO on Saint's death; and though he never talked about the incident I believe from these notes in the book that Dad was the runner concerned. I only wish I could prove it.
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Hi, there is a good account of what a runner did in the trench system in a harrowing book called "Death of a Hero"by Richard Aldington. It was first published by Chatto &Windus in 1929 and my copy is a republished one from1968 by Sphere Books ,but in between there is one :-Consul Books1965 and Catherine Guillaume holds the copyright . My copy printed by C. Nicholls and Company Ltd.The 1929 version is "expurgated"- there are descriptions of intimacy- nuff said!
Perhaps Amazon can help but get your tissues ready when you read the Epilogue.
My dad, born 1897 was in the trenches and was taken prisoner of war,which no doubt saved his life
I grew up hearing interesting fact about WW1,he did not tell the dreadful stories he could have told us but more about the friendship and laughs. He did tell us more when we were old enough to understand.
His health was very poor when he came home and did not marry until in his forties because he just could not work. I am proud of him. Viktoria.
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I forgot to mention we heard the news of Harry Patch`s death whilst we were away f or a few days. I am a bit out of touch at the moment but I think the funeral is going to be in Wells Cathedral, The Queen is hoping to do something apart from Remembrance Day.
Any RootsChatter more up to date? Viktoria.
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Viktoria, See link for Harry Patch.
Roger
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See link for Harry Patch
You forgot to add it :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,394641.msg2655111.html#msg2655111
Jennifer
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Many thanks for giving me that link,Harrywas a wonderful example of someone who had learned good standards and values at an early age and never lost them despite hardships.He had a certain charm and could have mixed with anyone from any walk of life and maintained his quiet dignity.
Other than the Australian gentleman there are no more living links with one of the most cataclysmic events in our history. It was a privilege to hear him speak.
I hope people who can`t be bothered about Armistice Day will remember Harry and make the effort
this year to at least keep 2 minutes silence, such a little to ask compared to what all men like Harry gave so freely.Viktoria.