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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: CFP39 on Friday 17 July 09 22:52 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone
Can anyone tell me if the White Hart Inn at Sonning still exists?
Also does a list of early 20th century landlords exist anywhere?
The reason for my interest is that my grandparents may be on that list. I had the vague idea that they were somewhere near a bridge in Reading but a cousin has just told me that it was called The White Hart. Sonning is the only one that seems to fit?
Any information would be appreciated. :)
Regards
Lee
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HI,,SEEMS IT USED TO BE HERE ?/
http://www.greathouseatsonning.co.uk/great_house_at_sonning_rooms.html
http://www.old-picture.com/europe/Sonning-on-Thames-England-Hotel-White.htm
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Thanks for the link Gortonboy. :)
Wow! If that's it I bet they would only recognize the view! :o Although it's probably there under the glamour. :D
My father taught his youngest brother to swim in the river so guess they would have been there in the 1920's.
Thanks again
Regards
Lee
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It is still there but you need to extend your mortgage if you think of eating there. I have been to a couple of celebrations there, when someone else was paying. Most expensive bottle of wine on their list £790.
David
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Hi
Now not sure if this is the right place. :-[
Have been some more googling and found that there used to be a White Hart Inn at 1 & 2 Oxford Road, Reading! This being at junction with St Mary Butts. In 1911 the family were living at no. 5, St Mary Butts, sooooo ::)
This building would possibly have been demolished when alterations were made in this area. Does anyone know?
Would like to know which is the most likely candidate before looking for directories!
Any hints would be appreciated. ;)
Regards
Lee
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Hi. I can confirm that it is now known as The Great House
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Hi CFP39
Just caught up with this thread. Have a look here - there appear to be three White Harts actually in Reading
http://www.deadpubs.co.uk/Berkshire/Reading/index3.shtml
Anne
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Hi Anne
That's brilliant! Shows James Payne (my grandfather) as publican in 1920 at St Mary Butts one! And the address expanded to include no.5, where they were living in 1911.
Did locate a postcard showing a little of the building. Don't know if it still exists as haven't been to Reading since getting the 1911 address. :(
Does anyone out there know?
Regards
Lee
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Hi Lee
Sorry, it's not still there. There's a sixties shopping centre where it used to be. Have a look here - you'll find a few pictures of it I think.
http://readingimages.epixtech.co.uk/extra/test3.html
Anne
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The 1920 directory (Kelly's) is a bit confused over the White Hart - in its list of Berkshire publicans it shows Payne as the landlord, in the Reading street listing it has Percy Thomas Crisp. Crisp is there for many years after, so I would read this as showing that Payne left the pub around 1919/20.
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Hi
The link was great and I've been trying to work out when the building was modernised. :-\
The 1920 aerial shot shows the later building so assumed that he was in that building.
However if there is doubt that he was landlord in 1920, maybe not!
Have been wanting to pin him down after 1918. He joined Royal Berkshire Reg at 18 years and served 21 years (up to Feb. 1914). He was recalled for WW1, but haven't got details of that, believe he served the full term. Know he had a variety of occupations, and on his death in 1935 he was an estate agent.
Seem to remember being told he was with the Territorials before the start of the "Great'" war.
Would records of licensees be at the Library or The Berkshire Records Office?
Thank you both for your help. ;D
Regards
Lee
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The records of licensees are at the Berkshire Record Office.
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Thanks for the info :) Will have to make the effort to visit BRO.
Would like to correct a mistake. :-[ For reason unknown I got it into my head that the family were living at no. 5 St Mary's Butts in 1911. They were in fact at no.12!
In the photos I've been looking at no. 12 is sometimes down as Territorial Army and other times as Salvation Army Citadel! Is this correct?
Thanks for your help.
Regards
Lee
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Kelly's Directory of Berkshire 1920 (Reading street index section - St Mary's Butts):
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Thanks again.
I've had a look in the Kelly's directory for 1915 and found James Payne named as at White Hart! :o
Thought he would have been away with the army. If his wife was running the business while he was away would his name still have been entered in the directory?
Not sure what the situation was in war years if licensee was 'called up'. ::)
Your help greatly appreciated
Lee
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I've had a look in the Kelly's directory for 1915 and found James Payne named as at White Hart! :o
Confirms what I read from the confusion in 1920 - he left around the time the directory was being compiled (so one section had him and another had his replacement).
Not sure what the situation was in war years if licensee was 'called up'. ::)
I am not sure what happened in Reading, but in Newbury they seemed to have ignored the licensees absence for a while (turning a blind eye to the legal requirement for a licensee to actively supervise his house). Eventually it dawned on them that the war was not going to be over by Christmas and the licenses were transfered to the wives or some temporary landlord (at least one pub in Newbury had a retired landlord return for a while).
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This is very interesting. My gran on my mother's side of the family (Lay, Jones, North) use to tell me that there were houses and a pub in the middle of the road at St Mary's Butts in Reading. I'm trying to remember if she said that she had family who lived there, or if she just knew someone who did, but on my father's side of the family, Payne is one of our surnames.
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Hi Silva
There could be a family connection as my grandfather had an elder brother and three sisters (as well as a younger brother who was killed in WW1). Don't know what happened to brother William but all his sisters married (1 x White & 2 x Pratt). My father was vague about his cousins but I know that there were several girls a lot younger than him. No connections to Lay, Jones or North that I know of!
Grandfather & great grandfather were both born in Rickmansworth. They moved to Speen some time between 1875 - 1881.
Hope this is enough to see if there is a connection. Have my Payne family back several generations now, but more recent events are more difficult to confirm.
Good luck
Cicely
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Hello Lee
This is a long shot, but I saw your post about James Payne of Reading, and your description of his career with Berks Regiment fits what I know of my great-grandfather, also James Payne. Any chance it's the same man? My great-grandfather married Gertrude Southgate-Sands, and my grandmother was, I think, their 6th child.
Look forward to hearing from you,
Naomi
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Hi Silva
There could be a family connection as my grandfather had an elder brother and three sisters (as well as a younger brother who was killed in WW1). Don't know what happened to brother William but all his sisters married (1 x White & 2 x Pratt). My father was vague about his cousins but I know that there were several girls a lot younger than him. No connections to Lay, Jones or North that I know of!
Grandfather & great grandfather were both born in Rickmansworth. They moved to Speen some time between 1875 - 1881.
Hope this is enough to see if there is a connection. Have my Payne family back several generations now, but more recent events are more difficult to confirm.
Good luck
Cicely
Now that is interesting too because I remember my mum saying that the Lay's had family or some kind of connection to Rickmansworth.
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Hello again
Since I last posted I have asked my Dad whether there was any chance his grandfather (James Payne) was ever a landlord, and he immediately said, 'Oh yes! The White Hart in Reading!' So there you have it - I suspect, Lee, you are my first cousin, once removed. Would love to hear from you!
SN
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Hi SN
Have sent you a PM. Hope it has arrived now.
Lee
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Hi Silva
If you can give me details of one of your Payne ancestors might be able to link you to our family. :)
Not being greedy, but 2 new cousins would be great. ;D
Just back from hols, so a lovely surprise.
Regards
Lee
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Hi Lee,
I know this is an old posting (I came across it on google), and I'm new to genealogy, but I believe James Payne at the White Hart is my great, great grandfather (I'm descended from his son Percy).
Would be fabulous to find out more about James and any other Payne ancestors as I hit a wall with the Payne's (my father didn't have a lot of family knowledge) and so I turned my attention to other family branches. I felt a bit of a failure as my surname is Payne!
I look forward from you.
Kind regards
Johanna
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Hi Johanna
Welcome to Rootschat! That's the way I found this site. :)
Well there are are a lot of Paynes about. Was your Percy born 1899? Don't know much about mine as he died young, 10 years before I was born. Have only recently been shown a photo of him, by a cousin.
James Payne was my 'brick wall' but have now gone back another 3 generations on all families!
If you are an unknown relative, will send you the recent ( and more difficult to trace) family members by pm, when you have the required 3 posts.
Regards
Lee