RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: kerryb on Sunday 27 February 05 13:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi I have a brickwall I cannot break down and would like some help.
I am looking for my gr gr grandmother.
The true information I have is as follows:
marriage cert -
Helena Lorraine Lovekin married James Frederick Samuel Harmer on 13 Oct 1889 at parish church, Bodle Street Green, Sussex. She was 22, abode was Bodle Street Green. Her father was John Lovekin, Labourer. Witnesses were Edwin and Emily Haffenden.
Thereafter 1881, 1891 and 1901 census have her as Lorraine born 1867 in Mountfield or Battle, (my guess is that Mountfield would come under Battle anyway?)
As an aside her grand-daughter who brought up my gran, married as Emily Luffkin, notice change in spelling.
The untruths:
From the original data I found from other people's records on family search.org she is named Helena Lorraine Lovekin Stanford Smith. I have no idea where these names came from as there are no sources.
I cannot find a John Lovekin in Sussex. I did a search on Smith and came up with an 1871 census of family John and Emily Smith living in Punnetts Town. He is an Ag Lab. They have a daughter called Lorraine aged 4 born in Mountfield. They also have a daughter called Emily aged 18. Also a daughter Florence who in 1891 appears on census possibly as Florence Lovekin living alone with younger sister and son. Her birthplace matches - Warbleton.
That's the information I have or have guessed at. I would really appreciate some help with finding her parents for definite and also finding her birth. I have tried FreeBMD for all the children named on the 1871 census and came up with blanks for Smith and Lovekin.
Thank you
Kerryb
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Hi Kerryb
I just looked up some of the entries you refer to (to give me a better idea of the whole family) and will post here because now I have typed them out they might be useful to others:
1871 Warbleton
John SMITH head mar 39 ag lab b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 38 b.Horsham
Emily dau 18 b.Ore
George son 14 b.Rye
Mary Ann dau 11 b.Ashburnham
Bertha dau 8 b.Battle
William son 6 b.Warbleton
Lorraine dau 4 b.Mountfield
Florence dau 1 b.Warbleton
RG10/1045 folio 30 page 24
.............
1881
Netherfield Place Farm Barn, Battle
John SMITH head mar 49 b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 48 b.Holborn Middlesex
Bertha dau 18 b.Battle
William son 15 b.Warbleton
Laura dau 14 b.Mountfield
Flora dau 11 b.Warbleton
Jessie 8 b.Wartling
Thomas 4 b.Mayfield
RG11/1034 folio 34 page 21
..................................
1891
Darwell Hole, Brightling
John SMITH head mar 59 gen lab b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 58 b.Horsham
William son 25 gen lab b.Warbleton
Thomas son 14 gen lab b.Mayfield
RG12/768 folio 117 page 19
.............................
1891
3 Dragon Houses, Wartling
Edwin HAFFENDEN head mar etc..........
Emily wife 38 b.Hastings
Rg12/776 folio 130 page 10
Emily must be Lorraine's sister b.Ore (Hastings) ???
Emily LOVEKIN m Edwin HAFFENDEN 1877 Eastbourne RD.
I think there's little doubt that you have the right family here ......... there could be a number of reasons for the change of name ............ perhaps Emily (the mother) had LOVEKIN as her maiden name and didn't marry John SMITH? Had she been married before? Did John SMITH have an alias?
It would be a good idea to catch them in the 1861 census if you can. Unfortunately, the 1860s are still not that well represented on freebmd. Baptisms of the children may shed more light on the scenario.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Casalguidi
To add to your very helpful reply:
the 1881 census, Laura could quite easily be written down for Lorraine (thick Sussex accent or misspelling!) Jessie shows here and she is the sister in the 1891 census return for Florence in Bodle Green. Judging by the different places of birth the family have really moved around!
I agree there is little doubt I have got the right family. Can anyone help with 1861 census or earlier? and a prize to the first person to find one of the baptisms of these children! :)
Kerryb
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Hi
1851 census for Mountfield, no Lovekin's or Luffkin's -
the only possible link I can see is
James Harmer, 65 pauper, bricklayer , Herstmonceux ?
But more than likely to be no relation whatsoever lol
cheers
Sandra :)
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Hi
My brickwall gets higher!!!!
Just got the marriage certificate of Emily Lovekin to Edwin Haffenden back. Emily is born 1853 so that matches the sister of Helena. However her father is down as Henry Lovekin and he is deceased so he cannot be the same man as John Smith.
Maybe John Smith was not her father but Emily (snr) was her mother? Maybe that is why the children are called Lovekin - mother's maiden name. I am awaiting birth certificate of Thomas one of the other children, most of the births such as Helena and Emily I could not find records for. Emily (snr) maiden name will be on Thomas's birth cert (hopefully).
If anybody else has any theories or advice please share as I am really puzzled!
Thanks
kerryb
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Hi Kerry
Yes, that's really interesting. It would certainly lead one to believe that Emily was previously married to a LOVEKIN or at the very least somebody else prior to John SMITH.
It looks very much like they are all siblings or half siblings in one way or another but it's going to take quite a bit of sorting out just who belongs to who!
Roll on the 1861 census online and hope that sorts something out for you!
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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1861 - I have had a quick look through Ashburnham and part of Battle on the basis of the children's birth places but no luck. that does not mean they were not there - it was a quick flick through and I did not finish battle.
Andrea
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Hi
To add to all of the above, I received one of the brother's, Thomas birth cert today. The maiden name of mother is - Emily Stanford, so that is where the Stanford fits in. I am beginning to think she must have been married before to a Lovekin but why all the children have taken that name later on remains a mystery. I continue my search.
kerryb
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Hi,
This is probably a wild goose chase for both of us but, as the surname seems unusual, to me anyway, I thought I would reply anyway.
My 3 x Great Grandfather (who was my brickwall) married a Jane Jones and on their marriage certificate it stated that Jane Jones was formerly 'LUFKIN' - now I have traced a 1st marriage for Jane Lupkin (another spelling variation maybe)to a James Jones, married 3 August 1827 in Weaverham, Cheshire. My Jane was born abt 1803 in Crewe, Cheshire. Now I realise you are looking in Mountfield, Sussex but, the strange coincidence I found was that Jane married Robert Mountfield!!!
Regards
L xx
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Hi Lizzie
How many variations have we got now then:
Lovekin
Luffkin
Lufkin
Lupkin
It gets worse! :o ::) ::)
Kerry
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How about:
Lopkin
Lofkin
Luffkin
:P
L xx
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HELLO KERRY
E-MAIL IS NOT MY BEST SUBJECT BUT IM DOING MY BEST
I THINK EMILY SMITH AND EMILY LOVEKIN COULD BE
ONE OF THE SAME PERSON, MY CONNECTION TO
LOVEKIN AND SMITH IS.
SAMUEL PAGDEN MY GT GT GRANDFATHER BORN
3 - 11 - 1954, NEWICK. SUSSEX, DIED 12 - 12 - 1876
MAYFIELD. SUSSEX. SON OF JAMES AND SOPHIA PAGDEN NEE SIMMONDS, SAMUEL WAS ONE OF SEVERAL CHILDREN.
THE CHILDREN OF SAMUEL AND EMILY PAGDEN NEE
LOVEKIN OR SMITH, AND EDWIN AND EMILY HAFFENDEN
NEE LOVEKIN OR SMITH. ARE AS FOLLOW'S.
MARY ANN FLORENCE PAGDEN BN 1873
D. 14 - 3 - 1874 MAYFIELD
WILLIAM SAMUEL PAGDEN MY GT GT GRANDFATHER
BN 1 - 4 - 1875 MAYFIELD. M 2 - 6 - 1900 BEXHILL.
D 19 - 1 - 1942 NEWICK
EDWIN THOMAS HAFFENDDEN BN 12 - 4 - 1878 BURWASH
EMILY ELIZABETH HAFFENDEN BN 4 - 1 - 1881
WARTLING
GEORGE HENRY HAFFENDEN BN 24 - 9 - 1883 WARTLING
EDITH FLORENCE HAFFENDEN BN 28 - 8 - 1886 WARTLING
JAMES HAFFENDEN BN 18 - 1 - 1888 WARTLING
ALBERT VICTOR HAFFENDEN BN 1 - 6 - 1897
BODLE STREET GREEN
ALICE MABEL HAFFENDEN BT 11 - 6 - 1898
BODLE STREET GREEN
SOMETIMES THE MOTHERS NAME ON THE BIRTH
CERTIFICATE'S IS GIVEN AS PAGDEN OR LOVEKIN
OR SMITH OR LATE PAGDEN
POSSIBLY HELENA LORRAINE LOVEKIN AND EMILY
LOVEKIN OR SMITH COULD BE SISTER'S OR COUSIN'S.
MY MOTHER AND HER SISTER'S HAD SKIN VERY SIMILAR
TO GISPY SKIN COLOUR.
IM INTERESTED ON ANY INFORMATION ON PAGDEN
LOVEKIN OR SMITH
RUMBOLDS
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Hello rumbolds
Sorry I meant to answer you after the information you put on another post about the same family. I have so many strands on the go at the moment I am getting bogged down!!!
I think it is likely that Emily Haffenden nee Lovekin or Smith is the older sister of Helena nee Lovekin or Smith. I think I have just about proved that the Stanford bit was the maiden name of their mother Emily but so far have only managed to find evidence of one of the children being registered as born and find one birth cert. I wonder if the Lovekin comes from John Smith's mother. If they are gypsies they often took a matriachal name.
I will take your information and see if I can match it with my Emily. I will let you know what I find!
Kerry
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my name is colin haffenden and my family were from Ashburnham in east sussex.
my family tree includes Edwin haffenden
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Hi everyone
Just thought I would update this thread as I have just had a major breakthrough in my brickwall, all these years later and I now know where the Lovekin name comes from and just in case it is useful to anyone else:
I will try to be brief:
Emily Stanford, mother of Helena Lorraine. Ancestry trees had me believing for a long time that she was born 1833, Horsham backed up by all census returns and therefore daughter of Isaac and Mary Stanford in Horsham. A few years ago I felt uneasy about this because I found Emily with her father in Horsham on the 1861 census which did not makes sense if she was having children over in East Sussex.
He died before 1871 and she was in the Union Workhouse for 1871 which meant if it was her, she appeared 3 times on the census, 1 in Horsham and 2 in Punnetts Town, see page 1 of this chat. Impossible! Also both those Horsham census returns state she was deaf and dumb. I put it aside for a few years.
Then when the 1921 census came out I found Emily with one of her daughters, however she was called Amy! Oh!
So I did a search a few weeks ago for Amy Stanford born in Horsham 1833 and lo and behold I found her baseborn to Ann Stanford. Today I had a spare half an hour and decided to do a bit more searching and then my eureka moment! Ann married later in 1833 to George Lovekin! So that's where the name came from. Emily's stepfather!
Now I just need to find Emily, I found her on the 1841 census away from her family with a couple who as far as I know are unconnected, George and Mary Lintott. But I still haven't found her on the 1851 census. My search continues.
I just wanted to tell that to people who understand as my other half has just glazed over with that look, you know the one we genealogists get a lot! LOL
Kerry ;D
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Well done Kerry.
An amazing result after all this time.
I guess you have found George Lovekin was buried 28 May 1848 age 42?
Bapt Horsham 12 Nov 1809 to William/Mary?
(FreeREG)
Birth Reg
LOVEKIN, CHARLES mmn STANFORD
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in HORSHAM UNION Volume 07 Page 352
Death Reg
LOVEKIN, CHARLES age 1
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in HORSHAM UNION Volume 07 Page 256
Trish :)
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William Penfold 60
Lucy Penfold 50
Sarah Penfold 18
George Loockin 30
Ann Loockin 30
George Loockin 7
Charles Loockin 1
1851 Census
Elizabeth Cooper 60 Head
Ann Loockin 39 Lodger Widow born Rudgwick, Sussex
George Loockin 16 Lodger
John Whittington 40 Lodger born Horsham born Slinfold
Ann married John W 29 Feb. 1852, her Father JOHN Stanford a Labourer.
Ann also got 1 mth for larceny 1847
Sorry if you have already found all of this.
Trish :)
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Hi Trish, thank you I've found that. Loockin, another variation to add to the list! Haha ::)
And Emily had two little step brothers Charles and George. Nice!
Now what I am stuck on is Ann's baptism, according to the census returns should be 1812 in Rudgwick. Not there. There is a Sarah born in 1809 to John and Amy Stanford in Rudgwick. It's that name again - Amy. Could they be her parents? Trouble is, Stanford like Lovekin is spelt in multiple ways.
Kerry
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It is possible but I cant find anything else for John/Amy Stanford.
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Thank you for looking Trish, I've not found anything else so far so I'm giving it some thought.
Happy Easter
Kerry