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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: johnbarr on Friday 17 July 09 04:10 BST (UK)
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Further to topic # 386489.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,386489
We have now received the Birth Cert of George Street, born 24th Sept 1854 at Nettlebed, Henley. Mother's name is shown as Mary Ann Street - no other name shown, so possibly her maiden name.
HarryW and jillruss could find no sign of the birth on Henley PR.
Can anyone advise if it is likely the birth was not recorded on PR as there was no father? Or any other suggestions?
We have no confirmed record of him from birth in 1854 until marriage in NZ in 1896.
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As clarification:
The Nettlebed PR transcript finishes at 1853.
Jillruss found a GRO reference and also checked the Henley PR (more than one church) transcripts.
There was a possiblity that he had been born in Ipsden, but he does not appear in the PR transcript.
I think you will need someone to look at the original PR.
Harry
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Thanks for your reply, Harry.
Sorry for my confusion - these placenames are all new to me - but looking on Google maps it seems Nettlebed (clearly marked on Birth Cert) is quite a distance from Ipsden.
Did you mean I should try to get someone to check original Nettlebed PR for any listings in Sept. 1854 - as transcriptions on CD had finished in 1853 ???
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Hi John,
Yes, I think a check of the original book is your only way forward. It will be a case of someone who is going into the Oxfordshire Records Office being able to look for you (assuming the originals are there - not all are).
Harry
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I've just had another look at your original thread, where you say that George was possibly born in Nettlebed and that his parents were Thomas and Mary Ann. But later, you say that Mary Ann's maiden name may have been Street! :-\
So, I'm a bit confused (doesn't take much!).
Can I ask if you can go back to the information you have about George Street that you know for sure? Is it possible that the Nettlebed chap isn't yours at all?
I notice on the 1881 census on Family Search that there is a family living in Cookham, Berkshire (not that far from Nettlebed, Henley):
RG 11 1316/19 Page 9
Thomas Street Head Married age 58 born Cookham, ag lab
Mary Street, wife Married age 55 born Bankside, Surrey charwoman
George Street, son unmarried age 23 born Cookham, ag lab
This George would have a birthdate of c. 1858 - is he too young to be yours?
Jill
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Hi Jill and Harry.
Thanks for your help.
Original post was based on George's Marriage Cert and a handwritten note from an elderly now deceased relative. MC stated his parents were Thomas and Mary Ann (nee Barrett) and the note gave these names as well as born 23.09.1854 in Nettlebed. So data in note and MC probably came from George himself, and may not be accurate ???
Previous thread suggested that possibly the mother was a single woman living in a workhouse with son George and two other children in UK Census of 1861, as there did not appear to be any other George born 1854 living with parents Thomas and Mary Ann in 1861. Of course, it's possible they may have traveled to NZ before then, but we've been unable to find him on any passenger list either.
There is also a George Street born 1854 in Ipsden showing as a lodger in 1871 Census which could be him.
So we ordered the Birth Cert hoping to get confirmation or new data.
Date on Birth Cert was 24.09.1854 (i.e. within one day of previous information) and mother was listed simply as Mary Ann Street with no maiden name given, or father details. So was she married? There appears to be no record of marriage Thomas Street to Mary Ann Barrett.
So Birth Cert does not confirm if his Mum was single or married. We think if he had no father, he may have 'invented' one when asked for parent details at his wedding, and they may not be genuine. So if someone is able to check original PR we'd be very grateful. :)
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Hello helpers of the George and Mary Ann Street query.
I am the Great granddaughter of George Street, and have been working with Johnbar to help trace this line of my ancestry. Tonight I was online searching the Henley workhouse where Mary Ann and her son George were in 1861. No records for that year appear.
I also checked for deaths by her name, and only came up with two likely dates/places. 1873 (age 38) Easthampstead, Birkshire or 1898 age 61 Islington, London. Not very solid leads sadly.
I am hoping we can find Mary Ann's birth cert. I tried FreeBMD but had no luck, as I only have her estimated birth year (1836) and know she lived and worked in Henley, Nettlebed. But again we don't know where she was born for sure.
Can anyone suggest a way to find this family please?
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Hi and welcome :)
Can I just ask where the 1861 census gives as Mary Anns birthplace? I can't immeadiatly find it - or what is the reference so I can take a look.
To confirm what John thought - that birth certificate with no father named and no maiden name for the mother would mean that the mother was unmarried and the child illegitimate
DebbieG
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Ok - I found it. It gives her place of birth as Peppard, I think this should be Rotherfield Peppard (not far from Henley) I will see what else I can find
:)
DebbieG
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Hi DebbieG, thanks for your help. Wow what a quick response.
I have attached a copy of the 1851 Census which shows Mary Ann Street as a servant (age 15), born oxen, benson. Hope that helps.
Tho the 1871 Census shows her birthplace as essex (I think), working (again the spelling is hard to read).
I have never seen the official 1861 Census with Mary Ann Street on it, as some Rootschat member typed out their findings for JohnBarr originally. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I am still learning :P
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Hi - I can't PM you until you have made 3 posts - but you might want to take that image off - it breaks all the copyright rules and we will get in big trouble if the mods see it
DebbieG
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OK - I might be finding bits now. Still nothing on baptisms for any of the children found in the Henley Workhouse in 1861, It could be that she didn't have them baptised, but working through the various places of birth given on that, I did find this in the Ipsden transcripts
Baptism 1837 Feb 26th
Marrianne d/o Jane Street of Stoke Row
so the mother not married
DebbieG
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It seems that Jane also had a son baptised March 27th 1831 in Ipsden - his name was George, now if we have the right Mary Ann/Marrianne she might have called her son after her brother :)
This is the family from the 1841 census for Ipsden
John Street 57
Ursula Street 65
Jane Street 33
James Lucass 28
Rachal Lucass 27
George Street 11
Mary Street 4
It seems that Jane with her 2 children is still living with her parents John & Ursula, but the 1841 census does not give relationships
I then found a marriage in 1848 at Ipsden
William Woodard to Jane Street d/o John Street
and then I found this family in 1851 In Rotherfield Greys which would tie in with the biorthplace of Marianne's eldest child from the 1861 census
1851 Rotherfield Greys
William Woodward 43
Jane Woodward 42
Marian Street Woodward 14
William Woodward 2
I am trying to think of a way to prove that this is the right Mary Ann/Marianne that was the mother of your George
:)
DebbieG
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This may be a long shot but here goes - I am trying to track down a Lucy Street (nee Parker), who in 1921 was living at 3 Summerfield Street, Baring Road, Lee, Kent. She was my grandfather's sister. On seeing the name Street I was wondering if there is any connection.
Irene
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Hi DebbieG,
thank u for catching my mistake with the Census image. Don't know what I was thinking. :-[
The birth for a marianne to Jane Street in 1837 sounds promising, since we have Benson, Ipsden as Mary Ann Streets birth place from an 1851 Census.
But then the Woodward family Census in 1851 clearly shows Marian Street Woodward age 14 at their residence, when we have Mary Ann Street at age 15, as a servant in household of Heath Family, in Henley.
The George connection is also promising though, so I am not ruling out Jane as the mother to mary ann/marrianne/marian Street. Not forgetting mary ann is how the name is spelt on george streets birth cert.
If it helps we have a Census in 1871 showing a mary ann street, age 35, as a lodger housekeeper in the household of william and isabella Janet, westminster.
I wonder then if the death for mary ann street in islington, london, 1898, age 61 could be the same woman. Is islington near westminster? or Rotherfield Greys even?
Thanks again
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Hi
Yes the problem is sorting out which Mary Ann/Marianne Street is the mother of 'your' George. I had 'go' at this yesterday.
I checked for Mary Ann (etc) of the right age in the area of Henley in the 1841 census and found 2 in Ipsden which were the daughter of James & Mary Street aged 5, and the daughter of Jane Street aged 4.
I think the servant you have found in 1851 in Ipsden who was born in Benson, would be the daughter of James & Mary, the house where she is working is only 3 houses away from where they are living in that census. She is with them in the 1861 census, she married in 1862 in Ipsden to William Green - I have a copy of the transcript. So not her in the workhouse.
However I can't find a candidate for the daughter of Jane Street/Woodard anywhere else in 1861 at the moment.
The one thing that bothers me is that the eldest child in the workhouse with M. in 1861 is aged 10 and I would have thought should have shown up on the 1851 census, perhaps she was very pregnant - which is another possible reason she might be in her mothers house in 1851, I doubt she would be working as a servant.
I don't think the one in 1871 who is giving her birth place as Essex is the right person - it is not an uncommon name and I think I can see this one in 1861 already in London
There were 3 marriages (no deaths) for Mary Ann Street in the Henley district between 1861 and 1871
the first in 1862 to spouse William Green - I have mentioned above.
The second in 1869 spouse William Tranter - I have found this couple in 1871 and Mary Ann was born in 1820 in Buckinghamshire - so not our lady.
The third in 1870 spouse Job Greenaway, this one is interesting, Job was born in 1844 in Stoke Row Ipsden, the same small hamlet that all the Ipsden Streets that have been mentioned come from. I can find him in 1861 working away from home as a labourer, but then I can't find him again after that. His birth doesn't seem to have been registered and there is no corresponding death for him in FreeBMD. Did he immigrate?
Anyway - I hope all the above makes sense, none of it is conclusive and most of it is based on the assumption that the family in the workhouse in 1861 is the one we want, which is tricky with no first names just initials. I wonder what records survive for Henley workhouse at that time, the Oxford Records Office would probably be the place to ask.
:-\
DebbieG
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Hi Debbie
I have a Mary Ann Street (limited info) married Job Greenaway at Henley
2 qtr 1870 and a note that they emmigrated to Canada but unfortunately no date for that.
Ray
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OOOHHH Hi Ray
Do you have the marriage certificate? or any other info at all, I spent some time on this lot yesterday I feel almost like I know them I would love to know what happened to some of them, do you know who Mary Ann's parent/s were? did they have any children with them when they went?
:)
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Hi Debbie,
My original interest was Job, but having found that they emmigrated I did not bother with them anymore, so what I gave you is all I have, sorry.
Ray
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UPDATE!
After all these years of searching, I have uncovered more about my great great grandmother Mary Ann STREET of Oxfordshire.
I was fortunate enough to be shown a photo of , what was believed to be, Mary Ann as an adult. The frame was intact and gave a photography studio in Reading, England. After failing to find any census or death record for Mary Ann beyond the 1861 Henley Workhouse census, I decided to look for a marriage in Berkshire (where Reading is located, the place the image was taken).
I found the other marriages previously mentioned in this thread (William TRANTER and Job GREENAWAY), and dismissed them based on no matching census info for these potential marriages. The other name I discovered was "Henry BARRETT" in 1876, registered Hungerford, Berks.
I thought, well that's interesting.....BARRETT being the surname Mary Ann's son, George STREET used for his mothers maiden name on his marriage in NZ in 1896. It was too coincidental. So I checked census records for this couple.
1881 I found them as follows:
Peppard Cottage Farm House, Henley, Oxfordshire
Henry Barret age 46 Head Occ: Pensioner Gardener Domestic Born: Kintbury, Berks
Mary Ann Barrett age 44 wife Occ: wife domestic Born: Henley-on-Thames, Oxf
And in 1891:
Brook Street, Bensington, Wallingford, Henley, Oxfordshire
Mary Ann Barrett age 55 Head Widow Occ: Seamstress Born: Henley-on-Thames, Oxford
While the birth place for Mary Ann was not quite the same as 1861 ("peppard, Oxford"), I thought it was close enough given the age matches. And bearing in mind this woman has eluded me in all other census searches.
So I ordered the marriage certificate and the following information was gleaned:
Henry Barrett Bachelor of full age Occ: Labourer Residence: [kell?] Peppard Father: Thomas Barrett deceased
Mary Ann Street Spinster of full age Occ: Servant Residence: [Kell?] Peppard father: John Street deceased
I purchased a death certificate (reg 1891 Oxfordshire) for Mary Ann BARRETT and the following was revealed:
Mary Ann Barrett died 1 Jun 1891 Brook Cottage, Bensington, R.S.D, widow of Henry Barrett (occ: Farm Labourer and an Army Pensioner) Cause: Gangrenous Erysipelas; Informant: George Street, Brother, residing Well Place, Ipsden, Oxford
Now I had a father, John STREET and a brother, George STREET.
Now I was confused as we had previously found a family with a "Head" being John STREET with wife "Ursula Street" in 1841, with a young George Street (age 11) and Mary Street (age 4) with seemingly their adult daughters Jane Street (age 33?) and Rachel Lucass (married with her husband in household also).
It has been a thrill to discover these connections, but I still need to tie them all together somehow. I have searched Ancestry.com.au for baptisms for George Street (b. 1831 Ipsden) and Mary Ann Street (born 1836 Peppard) and nothing is coming up.
I am confident George STREET , the brother on Mary Ann's death certificate is the George STREET born 1831 in Ipsden, as using his residence from that document, he matches an 1881 census record:
"1 Well Place, Ipsden, Oxfordshire
George STREET" age 50, Head Married Occ: Agricultural Labourer born Ipsden, Oxford
[with wife Mary]
If anyone is interested in this very protracted search for my great great grandmother, feel free to offer insights and tips on how I can put the puzzle pieces together. I am always grateful to the Rootschat members who contribute and share an interest in my family history.
Many thanks in advance, regards,
J
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Oh and I forgot to mention I finally found a baptism for my great grandfather George STREET, son of Mary Ann STREET
22 April 1864 St Marys Church, Henley-on-Thames "George Street s/o Mary Ann Street abode: Henley Union Workhouse"
George was aged about 10 at this time, and it shows he and his mother (and presumed brothers Thomas and Charles) were at the Henley Workhouse for at least 3 years. [having been seen there in 1861 census]
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Timetraveller77,
In case you need it, Mary Ann Street was bapt. 24-8-1828 In Ipsden, Oxon d/o James & Elizabeth -
a Blacksmith.
The image is on Anc...y if you have a sub.
Have sent a PM
Alan
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Thanks Alan for the baptism above.
After revisiting this thread in it's entirety I think we can safely deduce that my GG grandmother Mary Ann/Marianne is in fact the illegitimate daughter of Jane STREET. Therefore the granddaughter of John STREET and Ursula DEACON (as seen in 1841 census).
The baptism of "Marianne Street d/o Jane Street, of Stoke Row, Singlewoman" in Feb 1837 fits and I have been unsuccessful in finding any other baptism that may match our lady.
So Jane seemingly also had George Street (b. 1831) out of wedlock. I still haven't found a baptism record for George.
This George Street married Mary REEVES in 1855, Ipsden, Oxfordshire. On this marriage record his fathers name is written as "John" [with no surname], and in fact the "John" word is crossed out and a mere scrawl is written where the surname ought to be. I must admit this is something I haven't seen before in all my years of research. Presumably both he and sister Mary Ann Street used their maternal grandfathers name "John Street" as their father, as a way to hide their illegitimacy.
I am thinking of contacting Oxfordshire records office for some help with this family anyway. Especially for the years Mary Ann and her young sons were at the Henley Union Workhouse.
Interestingly, Jane Street was born 1808, and her parents, John and Ursula married in July 1808 in Ipsden, Oxford.
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Hi TT77,
I'm not sure if you already have this piece of info but Jane Street (born abt 1808) married in 1848 to
William Woodward in Ipsden and lists her father as John Street, Labr.
Marianne Street was bapt... 26-2-1837 Ipsden , single woman.
These entries tie up with the 1841 census Jane is aged 33 but I think you may already know this.
Alam
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Hi TT77,
I'm not sure if you already have this piece of info but Jane Street (born abt 1808) married in 1848 to
William Woodward in Ipsden and lists her father as John Street, Labr.
Marianne Street was bapt... 26-2-1837 Ipsden , single woman.
These entries tie up with the 1841 census Jane is aged 33 but I think you may already know this.
Alam
Thanks Alan, yeah, Debbie did all this earlier research for me in the original days of the initial post [2009]. What a legend....I feel like I owe her hug now. If only I had been able to piece it together sooner....but there you go....the timing of getting the photo [2012] and then realising I could use the photography studio to broaden my search (!) ....there's a good lesson in that for any readers :)
Thanks again