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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Carol Ann A on Tuesday 14 July 09 12:47 BST (UK)
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I am still trying to find my Burchell family, and as I got such a good response from members last time, thought I needed to try again.
I have a John Burchell b. 1813, Arundel, married to Eliza b. 1816, Arundel, I do not know her maiden name. John is a master-shoemaker.
I have all the census records for John and his family which show them living in King St, Arundel. Johns death is recorded in 1875, but no record of his birth.
I am trying to find John's parents, and the maiden name of his wife Eliza.
In the 1841 census, I have found Ann Burchell, a widow, 64 years, a grocer,not born in Arundel, she has two sons living with her George 26, a grocer b. Arundel, and Charles 24, a excise officer also born Arundel.
Ann Burchell and her two sons live in the same street as my John Burchell, it is very possible that Ann could be Johns mother.
I would very much appreciate if someone could check these details for me.
With very best wishes to all,
Carol Ann
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Hi Carol Ann,
Did John and Eliza have any children? If their births were registered then the certificate will show Eliza's maiden name.
Who was the informant on John's death certificate in 1875?
Nanny Jan
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All the childrens baptisms are on the IGI.
James ch.19.1834 Arundel
Thomas ch. 6.818.43 West Chiltington Sussex
Ellen ch. 31.5.1846 Arundel
Fanny ch. 30.9. 1849 Arundel .
If their births were registered then the certificate will show Eliza's maiden name.
Ellen Burchell Sept. q 1843 Petworth 7 - 412
Thomas Burchell Sept.q 1843 Westhampnett 7 - 490
Fanny also appears but her page number is debatable. Sept.q 1849 Worthing 7 - 535 or 635
I couldent find the marriage of John and Eliza on the IGI :(
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According to Sussex Online Parish Clerks James, Ellen, Fanny were all baptised at St. Nicholas Arundel,
John and Eliza also had another Fanny baptised 16.3.1848 who evidently did not survive.. also there is an Emma 25.4.1852 and Allen 28.6.1857 to John and Eliza Burchell.
I could find no baptism here for John or a marriage :(
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In the 1841 census, I have found Ann Burchell, a widow, 64 years, a grocer,not born in Arundel, she has two sons living with her George 26, a grocer b. Arundel, and Charles 24, a excise officer also born Arundel.
Ann Burchell and her two sons live in the same street as my John Burchell, it is very possible that Ann could be Johns mother.
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George Burchell 26 and Charles 24 are on the IGI children of James and Ann, I think its unlikely that she is Johns mothers also :-\
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Interestingly the notes accompanying the baptisms of the children on the SFHG index says Burchell or Fletcher, and another says Burchell alias Summersill.
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The name Summersil was mentioned on the St. Nicholas marriage records with a Henry (I think) Burchell.
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Okay I have found a John Summersel baptised 24 Jan 1813 in Arundel St Nicholas, mother Ann. Maybe Ann married a Burchell after and so it could well be the one in that street.
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A breakthrough :D
Looks as if John was the illegitmate son of Ann :-\
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Just to recap all the childrens baptisms in Arundel and notes
James 19 Jan 1834
Jack 6 Sep 1835 (Summersill alias Burchill)
Eliza Elizabeth 25 Dec 1836 (Summersel alias Burchel)
Kate 14 Apr 1839 (Summersell alias Burchell)
Ellen 31 May 1846
Fanny 16 Mar 1848 (Burchell or Fletcher)
Fanny 30 Sep 1849 (Burchell or Fletcher)
Emma 25 Apr 1852
Allen 28 Jun 1857
I have looked through the Sussex Marriage Index but cannot find anything that will help !
Sean
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I cant seem to find a marriage of Ann to a James Burchell. ::)
This family is very confusing isent it ;D
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Hi Carol Ann A
Found John's baptism on the SFHG baptism database
John Burcher baptised 8 August 1813 at St Nicholas, Arundel
to William and Elizabeth Burcher, labourer
Kerry
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Marriage of his parents from the SMI
William Burcher married Elizabeth Parsons on 16 December 1812 at Arundel.
Kerry
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What a brilliant find Kerry :D so we have been searching for the wrong surname all along :(
Just found if myself... its easy with the correct name ::)
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I looked at the Burcher baptism and thought about it being a mistranscription but there are a lot of Burchers so I would be wary of that one being correct.
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Too true Patrish, I've learn the hard way! ::)
I tried searching for a Burchell etc but nothing came up so started looking through the Arundel records and that one jumped out at me.
A couple of siblings at Arundel also to Willaim and Elizabeth
Jane baptised 7 January 1816, Labourer
William baptised 19 September 1819, Carrier
Kerry
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The only Burchall that came anywhere remotely near was
John Francis Burchall baptised at St Nicholas, Brighton
on 6 March 1816 to Elizabeth, servant, abode George Street baseborn
Kerry
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Right ok, now I#ve gone back and reared the thread, I missed swebby's bit completely about John Summersel. Apologies its been a long day
So went and had another look at Arundel, St Nicholas baptisms and came up with the following:
Elizabeth Summersel baptised 25 December 1809 to Anne Summersel
then John as swebby said
Ruth Summersel baptised 20 August 1815 again to Anne Summersel
so maybe Mr Burchell was father but not married to Anne?? :-\
Kerry
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Looking at the overall picture of what we have found between us.
It looks to me as if Shaun has found the correct birth of the eluvise John Burchell who was in fact born a Summersel, his d.o.b is corrrect so is the place and the fact that some his children are given as Summersill with the alias Burchell ( have I got this right) :-\
The Ann Burchell married to James with the children George b 1814 and Charles in 1816 same place Arundel would seem to fit in nicley for her being Ann Summersill then either marrying or just living with James Burchall. :-\
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WOW!! Thank-you all so much for your help with this. I am in Western Australia, and research can be difficult, I have been stuck with this one for many months. When I went to bed last night there were no replies to my post, but then this morning, there you were. I very much appreciate your efforts with this.
The children you have for John Burchell are defiently my family, the youngest Allen b. 1857, is my g-g-grandfather.
I did not realise there was another Fanny born and a Jack, I have all the names for the other children, but was not aware of the other surnames, Summersil and Fletcher.
Would anyone have any idea as to why there are two other names?
I will start researching what you have given me, but you are right, this is a difficult one, and it is so easy to make a mistake.
If anyone can come-up with anymore, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks and best wishes to you all, Carol Ann in WA
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Most of my research is through Ancestry, and I have not managed to find a John Summersel, but I have found another Ann Burchell.
I now have my first Ann Burchell living in King St, the same street as my John Burchell. She is a widow, a grocer and was born 1777.
My second Ann Burchell is living in Preston Place and born the same year 1777.She is a housekeeper to a John Fletcher, the name mentioned on the birth registration of some of John Burchills children.
Could this mean that this is Johns mother? Is it possible she is un-married and living with John Fletcher, and John Burcell is her son her maiden name?
I will keep looking.............
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In my eagerness I forgot to mention that.......
The 2nd Ann Burchell is in Preston Place which is also in King St. She is not born in Arundel, and John Fletcher's occupation is given as Shoe-maker, which is interesting as my John Burchell is a Shoe-maker too.
In 1861 , John Burchells eldest son James has a son named Jack Fletcher Burchall, ( here we have the Fletcher name again ), James is married to Emily Susan Fry.
I am unable to do anymore research for today, but I would love to hear what you think.
Looking forward to your replies,
Carol Ann
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Looking at the overall picture of what we have found between us.
It looks to me as if Shaun has found the correct birth of the eluvise John Burchell who was in fact born a Summersel, his d.o.b is corrrect so is the place and the fact that some his children are given as Summersill with the alias Burchell ( have I got this right) :-\
The Ann Burchell married to James with the children George b 1814 and Charles in 1816 same place Arundel would seem to fit in nicley for her being Ann Summersill then either marrying or just living with James Burchall. :-\
Hi Patrish
I would be a bit careful in assuming this as Ann Summersel had Ruth baptised in 1815 between George and Charles.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
I know we cant take anything for granted with this one and it was purely my brief overview from what we already know.
I thought that maybe Ruth had been born earlier than she was baptised as we know that was a common occurance.
I dont have access to the SFHG data .
I also feel that the 2nd Ann Burchell is more likely to be the correct one purely because of the shoe makers connection and that fact that she was living as John Fletchers housekeeper, he may have had no offspring and some her children assumed his name but this need further investigation.
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Hi Patrish
I agree about the second Ann Burchell too, the shoemaker connection is really good. Be interesting to know where the name Summersel fits in. There don't seem to be any marriages in Sussex for an Ann Summersel to a Burchell.
Just one thought (I'm at work at the moment so can't look up till later) but has anyone checked the marriage of James and Ann, what was her maiden name?
I did wonder too whether Ruth was born earlier but it was odd that she was baptised under a different name than her brothers or is it? I'm not really sure actually.
The other thing I must check later is George and Charles because the two I found on the SFHG database last night seemed to have different parents although I didn't note because I wasn't looking for them specifically. I'll have another look later.
Kerry
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That's another marriage I can't see on the Sussex Marriage Index. James and Ann
Did none of the Burchell's actually marry?? :-\
Kerry
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The first Ann is probably the wife of James who on the baptisms that I can find is described as a grocer, until their son Wildsmith was baptised 21 February 1819 where James was described as a Baker. Charles was baptised 1 November 1816 to James and Ann.
The only George I can find is George Burcher baptised 11 October 1812 to Charles and Mary. I cannot see a George baptised in 1814 to James and Ann unless he was baptised away from Arundel.
Maybe George Burcher was a cousin and it was a mistranscription??
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
George Burchell 26 and Charles 24 are on the IGI children of James and Ann,
IGI extracted records. Parents James and Ann
George Arthur Burchell ch. 11.12.1814 Pulborough
Charles Burchill ch. 1. 11. 1816 Arundel.
I assumed these were the ones we were looking for, do you think they are wrong then. ???
There was no marriage on the IGI for James and Ann that I could see.
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Arrr I was looking for them in Arundel ::) but they were in Pulborough first. That explains that.
Found a burial for James 14 February 1820 age 52 at St Nicholas, Arundel so that I think would fit in with the 1841 census.
Preumably the Wildsmith I found in 1819 is one of theirs too.
These Burchall marriages are a mystery though, because I can't see any that fit on the SMI either.
Kerry
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My fault Kerry I should have posted the full details from the IGI previously :-[
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I need a decent nights sleep, I'm so tired at the moment I can't function properly, hence my mistake yesterday. ::)
I've just put the three surnames into the Sussex Marriage Index - Burchell, Fletcher and Summersel and I can't see any connections between any of them.
Carol this is a great puzzle ;D
Kerry
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I think buying one of the birth documents for one of John and Eliza's children would solve who Eliza was and from her surname it might help us to find John and Eliza's marriage.
Once you have the marriage certificate that might also give a clue to who John's father was, if indeed he had a father that he knew about ::)
Kerry
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I agree Kerry :) that was suggested in the opening couple of post.
I posted the bmd ref for Ellen and Thomas.
Dont think we can proceed any further until Carol Ann does that.
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Thank-you so much for all your help with this, although we do not have a final answer as yet, I am extremley happy with what we have found so far.
I am thinking the second Ann is most likely to be Johns mother, especially now I have discovered the Fletcher name being repeated with Johns grandson Jack Fletcher Burchell. Jacks father James is also a shoe-maker.
If it had not been for your help in finding the Fletcher name included in the Baptism records of Johns children, I would never have found the connection with Ann Burchell, the housekeeper to John Fletcher.
I will now do as you suggest, buy a birth document for one of the children, and fingers-crossed it will give new leads. I will post as soon as I know more.
Once again my many thanks to you, you are all gems!!
With best wishes from WA,
Carol Ann
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Hi Carol Ann
Looking forward to seeing the results and I hope we get some success for you.
Kerry
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Hello i saw a message from Carol ann, Im Tim O'Connor and my grandad was Mathew Connors of Knockavilla just outside Cashel and alot of the names you mentioned are the same as his sisters and brothers, wondering if there is a link? my email is
thanks tim
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