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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Red Kite on Monday 13 July 09 21:12 BST (UK)
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I would like to hear from anyone researching my Watts ancestry.
My Watts were mostly farmers in Glamorgan. When my mother, Margaret Watts died in 2005, she was the very last of my line of ancestry. As I am not aware of any other living Watts connected to her family, it would be so interesting to hear from anyone so connected.
I have a good record of siblings of my Watts ancestors, but my direct line is as follows -
Thomas Watts 1794 - 1860 Welsh St. Donats m Margaret Thomas 1791 Penllyn
Edward Watts 1825 Farmer Pendoylan m Rachel Jones 1823 Pentrych
John Watts 1851 Farmer Pentrych m Elizabeth Jenkins 1857 Haverfordwest
Thomas Watts 1882 - 1946 Llantrithyd m Ethel Evans
Margaret Watts 1920 - 2005 Gilfach Goch Rhondda
Farms included in this family were at Ty Draw, Duffryn Bach, Pwllysarn, Pendoylan.
I read an old thread from 2007 by a member " Selena by the Sea", in answering another matter, she makes a comment that I find very interesting,and indicates that she may know of my family - I wonder if this lady is still an active member?
I would be delighted to hear from anyone who is interested in the above.
Thank you
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Hello there,
The street I now live is Ty-Draw and was once a farm.
Where was your Ty-Draw ?
Heddwch
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Hi Heddwch,
Thank you for your response - I am not sure where Ty Draw the farm is/was.
I had assumed it was in the Llantrithyd, Pentrych area, I could however, be completely wrong about this. ::)
I can get most likely get an answer to this from another contact, and get back to you.
What you tell me sounds very interesting.
Thanks again Heddwch - appreciated
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Hi Heddwch,
I have checked the location of the farm "Ty Draw" - it is as I thought in Llantrithyd. There was a large farm known as "Llantrithyd House, and Ty Draw was to the west of this. Another farm "Ty Uchaf" was to the east of Llantrithyd House.
My family also farmed at the next village of Pendoylan - that farmhouse is now run as a hotel I believe.
Is Ty Draw located near to you?
Kind regards
Red Kite
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hi red kite,
saw your interest in watts family. Ty dRAW is still a working Farm and is in Llantriythd but your branch never lived there . Rachel jones was a young widow when she married Edward Watts and they farmed Castle farm St.Georges super Ely and had six children. Your John & Elizabeth were farming Ty Uchaf by 1881 taking over from his childless uncle & aunt.
Edward's brother David had Ty Draw. then his eldest unmarried son David and in 1912 his youngest son William took over. He was my great grandfather.
We therefore both descend from Thomas Watts and Margaret Thomas. I can go back to their parents Edward and Margaret who farmed Bwlch Gwyn, Ystradowen. More info if you want.
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Hi Dragonsheep,
Thank you for your message - I am very interested in the information you have.
Unfortunately, I have to go offline now, but, if I may, I will check my tree, and get back to you later.
Thanks again, it is good to get a response after all this time.
Kind regards,
Red Kite
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Hi Dragonsheep,
Thank you for confirming the location of Ty Draw, and that my branch did not farm there, but at Ty Uchaf. My Gt Grandfather John Watts 1851, was living with aunt Margaret Morgan, nee Watts, and Thomas Morgan from at least age 10 yrs. He seems to have remained with them until his marriage - This must be the couple you refer to.
My Grandfather Thomas Morgan Watts was named after Thomas Morgan.
There was later a marriage between the Watts and Morgan family.
I have William Watts b. 1870 at Pendoylan, son of David b. 1830 and Charlotte Howe. Would they have been your Gt Grandparents?
My earliest record is of Edward b. 1857 St Donats, married to Margaret c. 1762, but until now knew nothing further.
I have details of other branches of the Watts family, and if there is anything you think I might know, I would of course be pleased to pass this on.
Thank you again for answering my post, I would be very grateful for any info you can pass onto me.
Kind regards
Red Kite.
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Hi Red kite
The other Watts / Morgan wedding of Thomas watts/Alice morgan lead to a third. Thomas watts was my grandfathers uncle and Alice Morgan was my grandmothers aunt and my grandparents met through their joint first cousins and married. Therefore both morgans and watts are my family.
Ty Uchaf belonged to the MoRGANS as tenant farmers from at least 1788 when my ancestors Thomas & Catherine Morgan had 50 acres. It then passed to Christopher Morgan and his second wife Margaret the parents of your Thomas Morgan. Christopher retired from farming in his 80s to become a miller and lived to 94 on it. My ancestor was his youngest son JoHN fathered when Christopher was 65. The Morgans all live to great ages and John died two months before he was 100. He also farmed in LLantrithyd and was brother in law to my ancestor David Watts and Charlotte at Ty Draw.
. Their son William Watts was my great grandfather and had Ty Draw from 1912 to his death in 1930s. Edward Watts was the last at TY Uchaf about 1945.
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Hi Dragonsheep,
Thank you for the info re the Morgan marriages.
Due to the interaction between the Watts, and Morgan famillies, I have kept a good record of the Morgan's also. The earliest being Christopher Morgan b. 1710, and wife Elizabeth. Their son being Thomas 1735 of Llantrithyd, married to Catherine John.
The John Watts b1830-d.1930 that you mention, I have as married to Sarah Mathews. I believe that John was a Bard, known as Ioan Trithyd or Ioan of Trithyd.
Are you able to confirm the following for me please -
I have Thomas Watts b. 1860 at Trehedyn Pendoylan, a farmer at Plas Llanmihangel?
Also, Edward Watts b. 1825 at Pendoylan, married to Rachel Jones.
Edward was my Gt Gt Grandfather.
Do you happen to know where he farmed? I haven't been able to establish this.
Kind regards
Red Kite
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hI Red Kite,
Yes Thomas Watts was at LLamihangel Place until his death in 1924. He and Alice initially farmed at Dyffryn Bach, Pendoylan. His parents farmed there before moving to Ty Draw. They were in LLamihangel by 1901 census. My g.grandmother was working for them, helping Alice with some of her 13 offspring at this date. She married Alice's brother Thomas Morgan a few years later. My grandmother spent alot of holidays at LLamihangel. It is a fairytale looking place and you can now stay there as an up market B&B. It was said to be haunted and she said you cyll ould hear rats in the old walls. She and her cousins loved it because the house was so big the adults could not hear them chatting and coming in late!
Edward Watts farmed at St-Y-Nill and Castle Farm, St.George-super Ely. He and Rachel married5-4-1850 at Pentyrch. Her father farmed at Castell-y-mynach, Creigiau and I think they lived there briefly with her family. Castle farm then passed on to eDWARD'S youngest son Thomas. This information is from the research of Thomas Llewellyn who lived at Pentyrch and was the above Thomas Watts grandson so should be right.
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Red Kite
"The John Watts b1830-d.1930 that you mention, I have as married to Sarah Mathews. I believe that John was a Bard, known as Ioan Trithyd or Ioan of Trithyd."
This was not John Watts, Ioan Trithyd was John Morgan, my Gt-Gt-Grandfather. His daughter Alice married Thomas Watts (1860 - 1924) and their eldest son Arthur Thomas (1886 - 1973) is my Grandfather. Arthur also farmed at Ty Uchaf in Llantrithyd until his death when his son Parry Morgan took over.
Ty Draw is in Llantrithyd, although there is another farm of the same name in St Georges where I have reason to believe that a member of the Watts family also farmed. Unfortunately I have not yet been able to determine which of the many Watts' this was.
If anyone with an interest in the Watts family is interested I have a family group photograph taken at Plas Llanmihangel showing Thomas Watts, his wife Alice, and (I think) all of his children. It is possible that Enid, who died in an accident at Llanmihangel, is not included. Will need to dig the photo out and check that.
I also have a photo of the Morgan family showing John (1830 - 1930) and others. Names of others on the photo escape me at the moment, and i don't think I ever had them all.
Sorry that this comes nearly a year after the original messages, but I have only just found this thread.
Regards
A Turtle.
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A Turtle,
Thank you for your message concerning John Morgan, Ioan Trithyd. I noticed the error some time after my original post, and amended my records accordingly, I am nevertheless grateful to you for pointing this out, as I may not have known.
Should I discover which of the Watts farmed Ty Draw at St. Georges, I will of course let you know.
I believe there were three marriages between the Watts and Morgan families, so therefore I have an interest in the Morgan's.
My Grandfather Thomas Morgan Watts 1882 - 1942 was named after Thomas Morgan 1814 - 1887. Thomas Morgan, and his wife Margaret (nee Watts) had raised my Gt Grandfather John Watts 1851 - 1920 from age ten. I believe they were childless, and John remained with them into adulthood, and eventually took over Thomas Morgan's farm.
With regard to the photographs you mention, I will send you a PM.
Kind regards,
Red Kite,
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Hi Red Kite,
PM received, but I am unable to reply to it - the "New Message" button isn't there.
Just a thought, is it possible that we have contacted each other regarding the Watts family on another web site? The fact that you thought the Watts line had died out seems familiar.
I have just spent a week in Cardiff and the Vale, visited my son who lives in the city, went round some haunts from my childhood, met up with a few long lost relatives, and took photographs of some of the places the family has lived in over the years. Admittedly most are probably considerably different to the way they were 100 years, or more, ago - but there's not a lot I can do to wind things back. I missed Dyffryn Bach, but got Ty Draw, Llantrithyd; Penrheol (Pen Yr Heol), St Mary Church; and Sant Y Nill, St Brides super Ely. Ty Uchaf and Plas Llanmihangel I already had. I also have photos (35mm) taken in the graveyard at Zoar Chapel in Bonvilston showing the inscriptions on the many Watts and Morgan gravestones and memorials there. I also got Ty Draw in St Georges in the hope that I can find out which Watts farmed there.
The pictures of people, and of Plas, were scanned from photos owned by others and I only have them on the computer. Any of these can be emailed to you pretty much immediately. The ones from 35mm will have to be scanned first. Please excuse me for being selfish but I would prefer to keep the originals that I have. Mind you, with the ease of storage, and linking to trees, I see jpg's as being better than hard copy. With the proviso that everything is backed up, and ideally more than once.
btw - I also have a copy of the announcement of the death of John Morgan (1830 - 1930) that was published in one of the papers there, possibly the South Wales Echo. He was sufficiently well-regarded to warrant a write-up that covered something like a third of a page. Also scanned so available for email.
Reference the family group at Plas Llanmihangel, Enid is not on it so the picture must have been taken after her death.
I intend to visit South Wales again, hopefully later this year when I have more queries that need local research, and will hopefully have more locations to photograph, in addition to the new one mentioned earlier in the thread.
Regarding the possibility of Watts at Ty Draw, St Georges: Is this the Castle Farm referred to by Dragonsheep that has been renamed; have I been given the wrong info; or did members of the Watts family occupy both of these at some time? As so often happens, one answer throws up several questions. Glamorgan Records Office which has now moved from Cathays onto the University campus holds some account books and farm papers that belonged to Edward Watts of Castle Farm.
Regards
A Turtle
Later edit:
Castle Farm and Ty Draw are not one and the same. Coflein.gov.uk has a description of the house at Castle Farm and it does not match what I saw at Ty Draw.
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Hi A Turtle
Have just registered and seen your post re John Morgan (Ioan Trithyd), he is also my Gt Gt Grandfather, son William, son Edwin is my grandfather. I would be interested in copies of any Morgan pictures that you have, also a copy of the announcement of the death of John Morgan.
Thanks in advance
C Morgan
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"Hi A Turtle
Have just registered and seen your post re John Morgan (Ioan Trithyd), he is also my Gt Gt Grandfather, son William, son Edwin is my grandfather. I would be interested in copies of any Morgan pictures that you have, also a copy of the announcement of the death of John Morgan.
Thanks in advance
C Morgan"
P.M. sent.
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Thomas Watts is my great grandfather. My grandmother, Amy, is still alive and living near Cowbridge. She was brought up in Llanmihangel.
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hello Alan ,seems we r all connected to the same watts :) Kaye
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If anyone with an interest in the Watts family is interested I have a family group photograph taken at Plas Llanmihangel showing Thomas Watts, his wife Alice, and (I think) all of his children. It is possible that Enid, who died in an accident at Llanmihangel, is not included. Will need to dig the photo out and check that.
I also have a photo of the Morgan family showing John (1830 - 1930) and others. Names of others on the photo escape me at the moment, and i don't think I ever had them all.
Regards
A Turtle.
I would be very interested to see the photos if you have a scan of them.
thanks
Alan
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Hi Alan O
P.M. sent
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I have just found this site on the Watts family. My grandmother Florence Watts was born in Castle Farm St Georges super Ely around 1886, one of 8 children. Castle Farm is now being restored, it is a Grade 1 listed building. Further details can be found in the CADW publications. I have photos of it and also of the Watts family taken many years ago.
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Hi Red Kite.
Further info is that my Watts family Thomas and Susannah Watts farmed at Ty Llwyd, St Georges, not sure if this was Castle Farm but my Grandmother Florence was born at Castle Farm in 1888. Other children were Mary, Rachel, Edward, John, Norah, Fanny born between 1883 and 1892. I visited it as a child with her to be introduced to the Great Aunts but have to admit to being more interested in the GWR line which ran alongside! There is also a connection to Sant Tylyll (or St-y-Nyll) a (now demolished) large house at St Brides-super-Ely through my great-great grandfather Edward Watts. One earlier posting from 'Dragonsheep' mentioned St-y-Nyll, Edward Watts and Thomas Llewellyn (my second cousin, son of Norah Watts) so we are clearly on common ground! My great Grandmother at Castle Farm was a Williams who was descended from Thomas Williams a Welsh hymn writer who built Bethesda Fro Chapel at St Athan. I have no information regarding any connection to the Morgan line.
Regards
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Hi StAber,
It would appear that your Gt. Grandfather Thomas Watts 1855, was a younger brother of my Gt.Grandfather John Watts 1851 - Their parents being Edward 1826 and Rachel Jones 1823.
The other siblings to Thomas and John were Edward 1854. Elizabeth 1858. Margaret 1860. Mary 1864.
I found your Gt.Grandfather Thomas 1855 and his family in the 1901 Census. Living at Castle Farm, St. Georges.
I expect you have this info, but I'll put it in anyway =
Thomas Watts Head b. 1855 Pendoylan Farmer
Susannah Wife b. 1859 How Mills Glam.
Margaret Dau. b. 1880 Welsh St. Donats.
Rachel Dau. b. 1882 Welsh St.Donats. Milliner.
Edward Son b. 1885 St. Georges.
John Son b. 1887 St. Georges.
Norah Dau b. 1892 St.Georges.
Fanny Dau b. 1893 St.Georges.
Florence Dau b. 1889 St. Georges.
Also living with the family described as Servant was Charles England b. 1838 from Lopan, Somerset.
Kind regards
Red Kite.
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Hi,
Not sure of myself as new to this site. The Watts family are on my mother-in-law's side. She is 96 and still going strong and was one of twins born to AT Watts and his wife Edith.
I have managed five generations starting with Arthur and have a few photographs of same.
Would be over the moon to have copies of early generations as mentioned by A Turtle but can someone explain how I go about it.
Regards
Stanslad
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Dear All
I read with interest about the Watts family though not a descendant but as the person restoring Castle Farm St Georges with a side interest and slowly building an dossier of its previous residents - certainly it seems that quite a few Watts lived here.
I have had a visit from a couple of Watts descendants and unsure if they are amongst this portal and lovely letters from the elderly lady - apologies abound if I have been slow to respond as this has been quite a project of restoration and after 6 years finding a bit of time to address this.
If anyone wishes to visit Castle Farm I would be more than delighted to assist.
I do have some old pics of the family here but I am sure this is common knowledge.
All the best.
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i AM RELATED TO WATTS AND MORGAN FAMILY IN LLANTRITHYD
MY GRANDFATHER M.I.WATTS USE TO FARM TY UCHAF FARM LLANTRITHYD!
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Hi c Morgan. I have been researching William MORGAN b 1855 as he was connected to my JENKINS family in three ways. One was Williams G Grandson (Edwin's 's Grandson ) married the grand daughter of my great aunt Miriam Cecile nee (JENKINS ) RICHARDS of Whitton Rosser farm. I can not find out who my g aunts grand daughter, Janet married. I wonder by any chance if you know. The MORGAN family has such a long history in Llantrithyd and my JENKINS ancestry is just as long in Llantrisant. William Morgan has Jenkins Bloodline back to my 5x g grandfather born 1725. Love this history !
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Sorry all. Correction I meant William Morgan born 1866 who lived Maerdy Newydd and died Walterton Gawr 1955.