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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Michael Dixon on Saturday 11 July 09 18:57 BST (UK)
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A new series of six UK TV progs "Who Do You Think You Are ?" starts on Wed, 15th July, 9 pm BBC1 ( first up is Davina McCall)
Presenter Kate Humble ( surname Humble strongly rooted in North-East England) is one of the following five progs.
It will feature her g.g.g.g/father's involvement in the New Hartley pit disaster of 1862 when 204 men and boys died underground.
Michael Dixon
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Thanks Michael, will look out for that one
Barbara :D
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Thanks Michael
I wonder if they will show the Memorial at St Albans. It might shame the council into sorting the place out.
Gary
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Gary,
So do you think that Earsdon, St Alban's, graveyard could win the award for the " Most Overgrown Cemetery in Christendom " or even the " Most Dangerous ... " ?
Michael Dixon
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Hi Michael
There would be no competion, St Albans, Earsdon would win hands down.
Gary
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I second that I have relatives there
had a terrible job to find their headstones but did after someone told me I was looking in the wrong place did find them just beside the church door
I think my folks worked at the New Hartley
Elizabeth
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I must have been there the day after the yearly mowing!! But getting in and out of the churchyard is scarey--the bend in the road and the wall around the churchyard.
There is going to be some sort of 150 yr memorial of the Hartley disaster. Someone on the comittee contacted me a few years ago as I have a relative that lost his life. I don't have his name anymore though (computer emergency reformat) But they were looking for descendants. I thought they should also look at the other landmark disaster in Felling in 1812--that would be 200 years. I don't know if there are plans for that one though.
Janis
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Hi Just thought you might like to know there is an article available on line from:
http://newspapers.bl.uk/ Just search for Hartley Pit Disaster.
You can download the article for free and print it.
One of my ancestors William Wilson died there aged 12 and is recorded on the memorial at Earsdon
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There was an article, with illustrations, on the Hartley disaster and the mass funeral that followed, in the Illustrated London News of the time. I do not now have the date or other details, but it is worth looking for [at a large reference library perhaps] if anyone is interested.
A
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I ws challenged by a friend to go round Earsdon Graveyard as she had tried and given up..no problem says I, nettles n all. It has indeed got to be the most unkempt and unkept of them all. I even stepped on a rat! Get it sorted council.
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Kate Humble is on next Wednesday - 29th July
Liz
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A moving programme.
Humble is a name I came across when researching my own family in Earsdon on the Durham Bishops Transcripts.
The following gives an account of the part Kate Humble's ancestor played in the aftermath
http://www.ndfhs.org.uk/Articles/HartleyDis.html
a very sad record of the victims & their dependents
Liz
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I agree with you Liz very moving program. Wonder if it gave one or two councilors a sleepless night?
Gary
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I noticed a Jaques on the list of the dead.
I found that Winship Jaques was the son of Andrew Jaques, 61 (1851) Andrew Jack, 50 (1841).
My Gt Gt Grandfather James Jaques (or Jake) had an elder brother, Andrew, who was baptised at Earsdon on 13. 6. 1787.
Is there another Andrew that I've missed, or does this mean that Winship was my Gt Gt Grandad's nephew?
Liz
ps Fascinating name, Winship. I wonder where it came from.
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On a whim I've just looked on IGI
Andrew Jackes m Isabella Winship 8. 3. 1817 at Christ Church , Tynemouth.
On the 1841C Andrew & Isabella have 7 children & Winship is 3.
In 1851 3 older lads are still at home & Winship is 12.
By 1861, a year before the pit disaster Winship is married to Elizabeth with 3 little ones 3, 2. and 1 yrs.
It seems likely that Winship is my 3rd cousin (I think, I'm not sure how to work these things out.)
There are other family names on the Hartley Disaster record. I am not sure whether I want to persue these any further.
Liz
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Hi Liz
It seems quite common for parents to give a child the mothers maiden name as a forename, I have come across several of them at Earsdon.
Gary
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That's interesting, Gary. Were they unusual names? I have found Mothers surnames as middle names, but not as first names - and Winship is a very unusual name.
(Was the graveyard cleaned up for the Who Do You Think You Are programme?)
Liz
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Hi Liz
I have come across sankey, stamper and farrell, to name just a few, as first names. Graveyard is still a jungle.
Gary
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Hi Gary
What strange names.
I can't help thinking that they were not handed down to the next generation as family names.
Pity about the jungle.
Liz
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The family name thing is a nightmare - in my distant family the kids and the parents names are intertwined with uncles cousins and neighbours! Makes researching very difficult!
As you said pity about the jungle.
Ros
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A little snippet.
Three Gallaghers died in disaster.
John, born in Byker, left wife Jane and two children, the younger Charles died aged 18 months four months after disaster.
Duncan/Dunkin, born Byker, single lived with his widowed Irish-born mother and widowed sister Margaret Tierney, and Margaret's son James, 13 yrs who also perished underground.
Northumberland Record Office holds many papers/records on disaster and it's aftermath, including payments made to dependants, from the Disaster Fund.
e.g., Jane Gallagher , Fund Recipient Number 65, for herself and two children received 15/- (fifteen shillings) per week.When Charles died in April 1862, benefit reduced to 12/- . Jane remarried in 1864.
One account of the disaster, in the "Miners of Northumberland and Durham", reads.....
" One resolute young man, named John Gallagher, appeared to have been making a desparate effort to clear away the shaft above where the men were located, judging from the position in which he was found".
I researched this family of Gallaghers from cradle to grave, thinking they were mine. I was wrong ! But still very sad !
Michael Dixon
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talking about passing on family names - i have just been looking into:
Robinson Peacock Bywater of Sunderland!!
actually my own maternal gfatherwas David Cook Aitkin young - cook / aitkin both in family
I enjoyed the Humble prog. my gggfather was from Earsdon and a miner but luckily not involved in this disaster. i do however have an ancestor who died aged 76 in a Scottish pit when he fell on the winding drum!!
Diddy
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It's amazing how many of us have ancestors who were miners!
I wonder just what %age of the population in the NE in the 18th, 19th & early 20THC were involved in mining.
My own mother moved from Seaton Burn, but I was still taken back regularly as a child to see my Auntie Aggie. The kettle was on the fire & there were peg rugs on the floor.
Her husband Tommy used to come in still black from the pit. I'd hear his boots on the cobbles and then the sneck would go clack, & I remember his white teeth grinning in his sooty face when he saw us.
But he got the dust in his lungs, and died in the chair in front of the range, as he couldn't lie down to go to sleep at the end.
My Dad used to say that Tommy would give you the shirt off his back.
Liz
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Totally off topic to Hartley Pit disaster but on the subject of overgrown churchyards, has anyone been to St John's in Red Row? I couldn't even get near the stones - the grass is shoulder height or more and the gravestones were all lined up against the walls around the perimeter which is inaccessible.
My ancestors were mostly miners and bottlemakers.
Angela
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My maiden name is Liddle and there were 9 Liddles on the memorial at Eardon church. My grandfather was William Liddle b 1856 - I don't know whether we have a family connection or not but hoping to talk to me uncle, also William, about it soon
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Hi Priorygirl
Welcome to RootsChat.
If you need any help just ask there are loads of very helpful people on this site.
Gary
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I was looking for headstones, 2 weeks ago, in Earsdon. I had read about how bad it was, but thought it can't be 'that' bad. Well it was worse. I think it's shameful to allow our history to decay like that.
I tripped and fell into a colapsing grave, a very scary moment.
I couldn't even find my GGrandfathers grave. I knew where abouts it was as that it was boardered and had green gravel. This I remembered from my childhood.
Anyway my next step is to find out the plot number somehow and have the grave resored.
I drove away very sad and very disappointed. I only get back up to the north once a year.
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Hi MrsDusty
Welcome to RootsChat. I am afraid you are member of an ever growing band of people who are shocked and dismayed by what they see at St Albans. I am in the process of photographing and transcribing as many of the gravestones as possible in the churchyard. However it is a long slow process. I have tried for some time to find a burial plan but as yet no luck. If you post details of a person that you are interested in I will check through transcripts that I have done so far.
Gay
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hi all been keeping eye on this topic but what i wanted to say we have a very helpfull resercher in gary
neil P.S. gary i think you should have a look at the way you spelt your name on your last post
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Hi Neil
I guess thats what I get for posting replies on RC before the obligatory extra strong black coffee ;D
Gary
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how true gary im drinking black coffee now
neil
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Earsdon cemetery
Hi If you can get hold of the Vicar for Earsdon he has the burial plans
and can give you the plot direction. I phoned him to get my ancestor thomas langleys (the hartley hero) plot number.
I did suggest he keep a copy in the church and also perhaps have the church open to the public more often but the suggestion didnot go down well. Perhaps when we get a new vicar??
I live up in the borders and can pop into lots of church at anytime during daylight some churchs here have maps of the headstones in the churchyard
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What a good suggestion,I drove for three hours to St Albans and indeed I would have loved to have been able to go into the church itself ,still it was worth the trip,
maybe we should all email the vicar and request he posts a little more information for visitors,
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Hello
Elizabeth Wandless married Winship Jacks 21-05-1857 at Earsdon Parish Church. They had three children. Isabella born 25-11-1858. Ann born 13-07-1859. Elizabeth born 26-10-1861 Winship died 16--01-1862 Hartley pit disaster. Elizabeth also lost three brother's Christopher age 20.John age 14, Thomas age 19. Winship Jack ( Jacques) age 24. Elizabeth widow of Winship then married Thomas Legg. 01-04-1865. Earsdon Parish Church. Elizabeth Wandles was my ggrandmother.
My father when to the Centenary Memorial Service for the victims of the Hartley Pit Disaster at Earsdon Parish Church on friday, 26th January, 1962.
I have never been able to find what happened to the three children. near to the Monument is a grave for the Wandless's. and Windship's name is on the headstone.
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I took these photo's a few years back.
Thought they be be of interest.
Bill_r
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A few years ago someone contacted me about a relative of mine that was killed in the New Hartley disaster. This man was on a committee that was formed to plan a Memorial "celebration" on the 150th anniversary which will be in 2012. They were looking for descendants. I don't know the person's name and I had a computer problem some years ago and lost my emails but I don't think I was the only one contacted.
I suggested they look also at the Felling disaster of 1812--that would be 200 years--both mining disasters played a major role in changes to mining as it was known then.
Janis
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While researching one of the victims of the mine disaster (William Tibbs) I have just traced this recent article from the Journal for anyone with interest/connections with the commemorative event:
http://www.journallive.co.uk/northumberland-sites/seaton-delaval-northumberland/seaton-delaval-news/2011/04/14/group-plan-events-to-mark-hartley-mining-disaster-61634-28521919/
including the contact details of organisers.
I hope that an event of this significance might stimulate the council into some clearing work - it this has not already been started.
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Tried to contact via the e-mail link as I am a descendant of one of the victims families (William Wilson b1850 died at Hartley pit 1862) but the email bounced back with a failure notice. I'd love to know what is going to happen.
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I also got an error message at that e-mail so will try phone asap to check.
I came across this very recent (10/5/11) article from the Newcastle Journal stating that there is an intention to refurbish the memorial site - in preparation for commemorative events in 2012 - although not clear whether this is dependent on funding.
http://www.journallive.co.uk/northumberland-sites/seaton-delaval-northumberland/seaton-delaval-news/2011/05/10/hartley-pit-memorial-set-for-revamp-61634-28667883/
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The council have not started any work in St Albans ,I hope they do start soon, and then it might done in time for the commemoration in 2012,I did email the friends of Earsdon a month ago, and as of today no one has contacted me.
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Hi
i would like to know more about this subject as i am trying to trace member family name michael dixon or any family named dixon or diskey they came from ireland and moved to wolverhampton.
jenney
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Jenney if you want to contact,
( the Michael Dixon of Roots chat fame),
click on his posting and send him a pm ,he will answer you himself
page one of this board posting,
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My ancestor was Jim Amour the back overman who died with Richard his son, in the disaster. My mother used to have a wooden doll as a child made from the disaster timbers but she gave it to a friend.
Re-Earsdon church yard, and my mother. Her father Thomas Douglas was a fireman in Seaton Delaval, and died after fighting a fire, in 1940 i think it was, and had a fire service funeral at Earsdon. His grave is against a wall by the road, as there was so many people there. My mother is now 81 and had wanted to find his grave, to see where he is. There is no headstone, and the vicar could not help with any grave plans.
I'd be grateful if anyone did have plans and could let me know.
Thanks again
Dave
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If you go here http://www.northtyneside.gov.uk/browse-display.shtml?p_ID=26322&p_subjectCategory=403 and click on bereavement services there is an address and phone no to contact and they are very helpful,and might give you an idea where the grave is.
Ros
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My brother did try this for my mother but it was no real help.
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Seghill,
What do you mean by " it was no real help" ?
Were the North Tyneside officials unable to provide info on exact site of his grave ?
See http://www.dmm.org.uk/names/n1862-01.htm
for info on James Armour and other fatalities.
Be aware that not all the miners listed on the monument in Earsdon church cemetery are buried in the churchyard.
For example the Gallagher brothers and their nephew James Tierney were buried in the small Catholic graveyard at St Cuthbert's, Cowpen. (The nearest Catholic church/graveyard to New Hartley)
Michael
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Thanks Michael, but i know all about the Amours,- its my Mothers fathers grave ( Thomas Douglas ) thats the problem. There seems to be no clear record of where it is in the Church Yard
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Earsdon Memorial,
At last the memorial has been properly cleaned and the base re-pointed,the paths are well under construction,and it is going to be a lot easier for people to get down there ,no work men there today ,and they have chopped down a few bushes immediately in front of the memorial,pity they didn't start a bit sooner,
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Yes they have got it looking nice, and chopping down those bushes have revealed several of the disaster headstones.
There has been a lot said in the local papers over the past few weeks, and names mentioned of those involved,- but the one name i did not see was that of John Seymour. If it was not for John and his late wife and all the hard work they have done, there would probably be no memorial garden and i don't think these remembrance services would be happening. So i'd like to make it clear, the work he has done, and thank him myself.
I will try and upload a photo of one of the headstones.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/Gintheborder/DSCF0383.jpg)
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Just in case anyone is able to attend, there's a service being held at New Hartley Memorial Hall today at 4pm. Also, an event involving local schoolchildren in the village's memorial garden, on Monday. Ref BBC News.
My brother and I are both adopted, and we aren't related. On researching his birth family, I discovered that his gg uncle, Samuel Birtley, died in the disaster, aged 24. He was married with a little boy aged 18 months, and his wife, Isabella, gave birth to a daughter 5 days after the accident, on 21 Jan 1862. If I've read the accounts correctly, that would have been before all of the victims were recovered. It's hard to imagine just how awful it was for her and all of the others.
Isabella remarried in 1868, to a Tailor! Less risk of repeating the experience, I suppose.......
I haven't yet been down to St Alban's to check out the headstones and the memorial, although I've seen Samuel's name on it in pictures. I must say, the descriptions of the jungle were putting me off a bit, and I'm delighted to hear that they have finally got around to tidying it up. I have newly discovered relatives of my own buried there, also.
Regards
Pauline
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Yes Pauline, its not too bad in most areas now, so i'd go along.
I will be at the memorial garden on Monday, anyone else going from on here.
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Thanks Seghill, I've moved this activity higher up my To Do List now that I know it's more user-friendly. :)
The anniversary has crept up on me and unfortunately I'm not able to go today, and I'm at work tomorrow :(
While my brother is interested to hear what I find on his tree, I'm not sure whether he would want to go, and anyway I can't get hold of him. Probably out shopping, he sometimes likes to go to the Quayside on Sunday mornings.
I think that there might be a good turnout, following on from a recent event involving Alan Carr, after his WDYTYA episode.
Regards
Pauline
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Thanks Pauline
Yes i hope there is a good turnout tomorrow as its 150 years to the hour, and this should not be forgotten.
Best Wishes
Dave
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Well it was a very good turn out this morning, and a very fitting tribute and reminder, of those miners. What they must have gone through, they would know very well, that they would only have hours and not days to be rescued, or the stythe (carbide) gas would kill them.
These glasses were on sale, copies of original but also marked 2012 at £45.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/Gintheborder/15012012001.jpg)
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Following on from Seghill,
there is a small book compiled and edited by Keith Armstrong and Peter Dixon,
if I am allowed to quote him ,(Keith Armstrong)
We are the widows of Hartley,
our men and boys are dead
our lives cracked open
damp corpses in our beds
Still the sea rolls on,
moderator please remove if this is not permitted
Still the seas roll on,
The Hartley Pit Calamity of 1862
a commemoration in words and images to mark the 150th anniversary
featuring poems,stories and drawings and photographs by local people
North Shields library do not have any copies at the moment but the Keel Row book shop opposite Christ Church does
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I wonder if you can re post your photo of the commerative glass,under a new post,
after a very pleasant chat with John and Jim last week up in New Hartley he informed me that no one actually knows who produced the original piece of glass wear,for the Hartley disaster.
my thoughts are it would have been produced in possibly Seaton,other think Sunderland,
has any one any views or knowledge on this subject,
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The National Glass Centre is situated in Sunderland.
Assuming that there will glass experts there.
Michael
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During my last visit home to Seghill, my Father and I spent an interesting couple of hours at Woodhorn Colliery.
I am an antique dealer here in the USA with a strong interest in Northumberland Pottery & Glass.
I was pleasantly surprised to find some wonderful examples of these Historic etched drinking glasses on display at Woodhorn.
I highly recommend a visit to the Woodhorn Colliery exhibits, well worth the trip.
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Thank you for your response I have travelled to Woodhorn many times,and the staff are all ways helpfull ,but they do not have the answer either to who actually made the original glass, I suppose it isn't really important ,I am just nosey,and thought some one some where may have the answer,
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There is a disaster medal on ebay just now,- i was outbid.
Just type in Hartley Medal
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ebay 0
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Sorry you were out bid,possibly more will surface and you can try again,
very good conditon,isnt it,I wonder if the seller knows who it was presented to
I see its in Wales ,
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Its £175 with 6 days to go, i don't think i will be affording any. I'd have liked it.
I recently was holding one of the silver medals, still with its original case. A very nice item indeed.
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Do you know who it was awarded to,
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Yes the Heron family
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Have you heard any thing about this,last week I was up at Earsdon,and a couple came along and where checking the names on the monument,so I went of for lunch,they said that there is to be a memorial path,made of stone inscribed with the names of all the poor miners that perished,completely for got to ask where it was going to be ,so surmising it will be near the pit head,or I hope it will be,so I went over to New Hartley to see John but he wasnt in,Jim his best friend and I had a little chat about mining instaed,
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Sorry, i have not heard anything about this. I will see what i can find out.
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Woodhorn Colliery have a bid in for the medal. I hope they get it.
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What a special piece of History...wish I could afford to bid..
I'm curious though...if they made bronze & silver medals...did they make any in gold ??
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Yes only one gold.. For William Coulson.
http://www.mining-memorabilia.co.uk/HartleyDisasterMedal.htm
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The latest bid is not Woodhorn Museum, they were outbid upto now.
I wonder who it is after it, they seem very keen
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Well all we can do is hope it is someone from the North East who wants to keep it in the area,
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Still going up. Its £330 upto now.
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Hello, i'm new to this forum but found it while looking for information on the New Hartley medal. I am originally from the village and collect local items from Hartley, Seaton Delaval and Seghill etc. especially mining. I was lucky to have won the medal on ebay after many fruitless years of searching for one. A silver one is out of most peoples reach now I think, and the gold one,,,,,,,
Anyone who wants to see it is welcome to. I do post pictures of local items and photos I have on my flikr photostream and there are a few New Hartley items on there to look at for anyone interested.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36891793@N08/
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I'm really pleased someone with a connection to New Hartley got it. Its an important piece of history.
The James Amour (photo) on your Flicker site is my ancestor.
I'm from Seaton Delaval/ Seghill, and working at New Hartley. Also with an interest in the history.
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I am happy to that the medal is staying in the hands of a local person,
well done and thanks for posting the photo,
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Thanks, I did a little research into James Amour and found that he lived at Avenue Row, next to the New Hartley turn off in 1862. It was then called Hastings Row.
I have some modern pictures of some items retrieved from the pit along with the bodies including some personal effects of James. Ill dig them out.
It's well known that the shaft used to be in someones back garden, and it was still open with just a wall around it. The man who's garden it was in used to throw his garden rubbish down the Hester shaft!
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Congratulations on winning the New Hartley Medal and, as others have said, its good that it has gone to someone originally from the village. I spent a good couple of hours looking through your Flickr photos - fascinating collection!
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Thanks Billy
I work with Graham Thompson, married to Stacey and its her grandads back garden,- he is in a photo in one of the disaster books.
Great stuff,- well done pal.
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Thanks for your comments. I try to update the flickr site whenever I can with stuff as and when I find it.
I think the man in the garden may have been Geordie Carrs?
People were forever knocking on his door asking to see the Hester shaft in his garden, authors included.
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Yes billy, thats him.
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RE. memorial glasses.
My wife Christine is the gggg niece of James Amour she has visited the memorial at Earsdon several times and attended the 150 memorial service. At a talk on memorial glasses some time ago at South Shields Central Library, pictures of the Hartley disaster glasses were shown. It is unlikely that memorial items were actually commissioned. However glass engravers would buy glassware and do their own thing to sell on. Sometimes they would travel about and offer to engrave glasses already owned in the household. In that way memorial glasses, for whatever you can think of will range from wine glasses to beer tankards to fruit bowls. Anything to make a quick buck out of anything to remember.
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Just a thanks to Billy1967 for that link!
Nice photo of Melton Terrace there where my Great Grandfather was born.
My names from the village are: Quinnin, Harbertson, Taylor, Barrass, Morris, Sproat, Sharp and a few other branches.
Thanks again :)
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Theres some familiar Hartley names there!, I think most people from the village had a relative who lived in Melton Terrace.
It was a very long street but surprisingly few photos around of the street that I have seen. I have another one or two that will post in time.
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Yes, my Harbertsons lived there at the time of the Disaster, but thankfully none were killed there.
I believe my G G G G Grandfather, Robert Barrass, was on the 'jury' (I think that was it was called) for the Disaster too. I know some Sharps died there, but as of yet I've made no connection to them. My Sharps were originally from Seaton Sluice and worked in the glass works.
My Great Aunt Peggy Harbertson married a Sproat, so me mam has a few Sproat cousins. I believe some still live in the area.
I'd love to see these other photos of Melton Terrace. My Quinnins occupied No. 9 for a few decades at the end of the 1800s before spreading out. I know that by 1908 they had moved to Quarry Row.
Thanks again!
pckl
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For the attention of anyone interested in the New Hartley pit diaster
on Saturday the 8th of September there will be a sevice and official opening of the memorial path,
at the memorial gardens 2.30.
sadly I will not be there to congratulate all these hard working commited people,and enjoy a day out in Northumberland,
also there will be displays and activities at the memorial Hall New Hartley,worth a drive out I am sure,beats watching the football
everyone is welcome to go along and enjoy the day,
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Thank you for the reminder...
I will take a look over for sure. I went past the Hester Pit the other day and the workmen were beavering away in the memorial garden.
Billy
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Will you be taking your camera Billy
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Yes, my camera go's everywhere!!
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I have just stumbled across this forum by chance,The shaft in question was indeed in the garden of George Carss of NO. 9 Hester Gardens,he was my grandfather,my fathers name E B Carss is on the war memorial in the village.
My daughter lives in Hartley and we talked about George and the history book,his claim to fame was that he was the only living man in a history book.
Some amazing stories here.
Unfortunately the book was lost sometime before his death.
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Dad tells me folk were always knocking on Georges door asking to see the shafts.