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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Saturday 26 February 05 20:59 GMT (UK)
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I was wondering where I might get information or find photos taken of Langney or Langley Green, possibly of Ivy Cottage, where my great-grandfather George Sherwood and his family lived from at least 1891 until 1916.
I recently visited Eastbourne, and this whole area has been built over; but I did try to locate where his house was by referring to Eastbourne Directories from 1894 until 1916.
The cottage/house was somewhere right at the east end of the road called Seaside; travelling eastwards, on the right-hand side, opposite The Archery Tavern. The Arlington Arms is also mentioned in these directories as being close by. So is St. Anthony's Avenue, Anthony Tower Rd, and the Eastbourne Aviation flying grounds.
You can see how confused I am about the exact location of "Ivy Cottage", Langney Green, so could someone with a good local knowledge of the area over the last 100 years, and possibly an idea where I could look at some pre-1916 photos, please come to my rescue.
Very best wishes,
Keith
p.s. The Langley name seems at some stage to have changed to Langney....
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Hello,
Langney and Seaside are not side by side - so your posting is a little confusing !
I live in Eastbourne, and work just off seaside - I will print it off and have a closer look (your posting that is !) - Let me know if you find anything else out..............
cheers
sandra
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Hi, Sandra,
Sorry to be so thoroughly confusing about all this... I'll have another look at it and try and untangle what I'm trying to get at. It's Langley or Langney Green that I want, and I was only trying to use Seaside to home in on it. Directions that I read in the various directories tended to thoroughly confuse me...
Keith
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Morning Keith,
I will take your posting to work, as there are some older people there than me, they might have a clue, never knew we had an Aviation flying ground !
I am also looking for old photos of Eastbourne, but as yet, can only find the Pier
and the Bandstand - we recently moved, and I am trying to find one of our house when it was first built.
If all else fails, I will give the contact details for our local paper, and you could write to the editor, and someone might reply - you can access our paper on line, so you would be able to see the replies - I could always post you a copy as well.
I will keep you posted if I find anything else out.
P.S snowing here in Eastbourne today, very very rare for us to have snow, and this is about the 3rd time in 7 days................world record !!!
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra and Keith
If you're looking for old photographs of the Eastbourne area to help you in your quest there was a book published some years ago of Eastbourne in old photographs I think called Eastbourne past and present and from a quick website by David Arscott. It will be available from public libraries. by Alan Sutton publishing. I have one of Heathfield and one of Hailsham, they were all part of a series published in the early 90s and I know there was one for Eastbourne - I borrowed it from my library. Alan Sutton Publishing has a website.
Hope this helps
kerryb
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Thanx Kerryb,
will check it out at the library first, before buying -
Keith you, can this on line at www.amazon.co.uk
cheers
Sandra
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Thanks again Sandra, and kerryb,
Sorry to hear that the E. Sussex Riviera is more like The Alps at the moment, but thank you for putting so much effort into my query. I'll see if I can get hold of that pictorial book about Eastbourne. I hope that maybe those at your workplace with older local knowledge might know more.
Maybe they have a collection of photos and maps at Lewes Record Office...
Keith
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Hi,
I have a couple of books of Eastbourne photos. The first is "A Century of Eastbourne' by David Arscott. It was produced by WH Smiths. Topically, it contains a picture of the Great Blizzard of 1908. Having looked at the picture I would hardly call it a great blizzard! I used to live in Eastbourne but now live in Boston, MA, USA and have just returned from a week's vacation in London. It was funny to see all the fuss about a few flakes of snow. I guess that it is all what you are used to. As an aside, did you know that England's greatest avalanche disaster occurred in Lewes? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/nature/wtt/03.shtml).
This book also contains several aviation photos and mentions the Eastbourne Aviation Company which built seaplanes at a factory on the Crumbles.
The second book is Francis Frith's "Around Eastbourne." Photos of Eastbourne can be found at www.francisfrith.co.uk.
Eastbourne Local History Society also have published a book "A History of the Eastbourne Aviation Company"
The book "Eastbourne's Great War 1914-1918 by RA Elliston, SB Publications includes a chapter on the Royal Naval Flying School. It states "On 1st December 1911 the Eastbourne Flying School opened on a 50 acre site on Willingdon Levels to the west of St. Anthony's hill. One row of hangars fronted the line of the present day Leeds Avenue whilst a double row was located at right angles to Lottbridge Drove in what is now Birch Road.
I have looked at the 1891 census and see that Arthur Sherwood and family (including George D Sherwood, age 4) lived at 8 Seaside Road.
Is this the right family? If so it is at the opposite end of Seaside Road from the area that you describe.
There is a mailing list dedicated to Eastbourne family history on Rootsweb (ENG-SUSSEX-EASTBOURNE-L ). Folks there may be able to give you more information about Ivy Cottage.
Regards
Mark Milton
Belmont, MA, USA (but formerly of Eastbourne)
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Hi, Mark,
Thanks so much for that comprehensive response to my query. I'll certainly have a look at all the sources you mention.
And, no, the Arthur Sherwood you mention is not the household I'm referring to. In the 1891 Census George William Shearwood (sic) is at 2, Ivey (sic) Cottages, Langney, with his wife and six sons.
In the 1901 Census he is listed as George Sherwood, at Ivy Cottage, Langley (sic) Green.
All these mis-transcriptions and name changes do indeed leave one feeling rather "sic" and perplexed oneself at times!
But seriously, thanks for all that info. re the Flying School nearby, amongst other things.
Keith
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Hi Sandra
As you are living in Eastbourne, you may be able to point me in the right direction with a minor problem.
My mothers birthplace, in 1921, is listed as Selhurst Road,Eastbourne.
I cannot find any reference to Selhurst Rd, on the maps that I currently have for Eastbourne. I have also tried the AA route planner, without success, and have even driven around asking directions on a recent day trip.
Do I have the wrong maps, am I blind, (and stupid) or does Selhurst Rd no longer exist ?
Jard
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Jard,
Could it be Salehurst Road?
Regards
Mark
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Hi
I cannot find a Selhurst Road either -
Salehurst Street, is in the "old town" of Eastbourne, if that
helps - do you know for definate that is the correct spelling ?
Sorry I am not more help, but after your first posting and all the replies since, I have learnt an awful lot about Eastbourne that I didn't know lol
Let me know if it is Salehurst Street, and you want me to go and take a photo and email...........you don't happen to live near Blackwell, Co Durham do you ? Then you could and go and look for my ancestors..............
cheers
Sandra ;)
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Hi
Thanks for the info.
The only reference I've got is on mothers birth certificate.
You could both be right, as she did live in the old town area. The names and addresses on the certificates are usually passed on verbally, so allowing for the old sussex accent, Salehurst could well be mis-interpreted as Selhurst.
I'm so pleased that I'm not blind or stupid, that I'll clutch at any straw !!!!!!
It gives me something to go look for, so thanks again.
Take care
Jard
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Jard,
What was your mother's maiden name? Do you know whether her family was living in the same house in 1930? I can look in the 1930 Kelly's Directory for her parents and that may help confirm the address.
Regards
Mark
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Hi Mark
Thanks for the offer.
My mothers was born Audrey Alice Elliott, apparently at 17 Selhurst (Salehurst ?) Road, Eastbourne.
Her birth date was 14/8/1924
Her father was Bertie Walter Elliott, and her mother was Alice Ticehurst.
The Ticehursts have been Eastbourne based for many years prior, but the Elliotts were originally from Newbury, until they moved to Eastbourne prior to 1900
My mother was put into Dr Barnados in Burgess Hill, at around 2-4 years old, so I don't know who would have been at Salehurst Rd in 1930 ........but you never know !!
Regards
Jard
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Hi Keith,
Just a thought, have you got the printout of the 1901 census, with your ancestor on - the reason I am asking is, because if there are any other roads mentioned on
the same page, apart from Seaside, it might give another clue - as I was driving along seaside this morning, I noticed a row of old terraced type houses, which could be classed as cottages, next to Myrtle Road - Haven't got round to asking them at work yet, as the phone didn't stop ringing - hopefully 2moro.
Maybe a bit of a longshot, but worth asking.
best wishes
Sandra
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Hi again, Sandra,
Thanks so much for keeping on my case! Myrtle Cottages sound rather evergreen, like Ivy Cottages, so maybe there's a connection.
I'm hoping to make a swift visit to London tomorrow, and hopefully will have a little time in the FRC, so I could look up the 1901 on the fiches there.
Is there anything pressing that you'd like me to do a quick look-up on for you while I'm there, by the way...?
Keith
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Hi
No nothing pressing at the moment - where exactly are you based ?
I visited the frc last August probably the hottest day that year, and the building is lovely and air conditioned, didn't want to leave........
I am waiting on a marriage certificate at the moment, to hopefully give me some more leads - anyway thanks for the offer, let me know how you get on.
cheers
Sandra
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As there's no word yet about Langney Green, and because this thread has been used for several other friendly enquiries about the Eastbourne area, could I possible throw another query into the ring?
My grandfather John Sherwood's birth certificate of 1883 states that he was born at "Gate House", New Willingdon. I can find no trace of somewhere so named on today's map, so does anyone know where exactly this might have been, or what larger building or estate this might have been the gate house to?
Keith
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Hi Keith,
Can't say I have ever heard of the "Gate House" - I live quite close to
Willingdon - any other clues ? not heard of "New Willingdon" either -
so not a lot of help really.......lol
Sandra
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Hi again, Sandra,
Hope the snow-shoes are not working overtime in East Sussex. The only other clue is that the registration sub-district was Westham.
Tuesday's trip to the FRC turned out to be a bit of a rush, so I never had enough time to have a close look at those Langney/Langley streets on fiche in the 1901 Census. I'll be down there again soon, though,
Keith
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my immediate thoughts on Westham, are Pevensey and Pevensey Castle, which
would have had a gatehouse..........
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Sandra
I'm not too sure about Gate House being in Pevensey. An alternative explanation is that Gate House was near the Toll gate that was (I think) in what is now Seaside Road. Tollgate Primary School is located on Winston Crescent which is just off of Seaside Road, just past the Roundabout at Lottbridge Drove on the way out of Eastbourne. If correct (and it just a wild guess that Tollgate School is near the site of an old Toll) then that means that Keith's family weren't moving around that much (Tollgate School is near Leeds Ave which was one of the entrances to the Flying grounds).
Like you I have never heard of New Willingdon.
Mark
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Thanks again, Mark and Sandra,
I think the Tollgate in the Seaside area sounds the more likely - as there seems to be such uncertainty about this Seaside area of Eastbourne prior to the 20th Century, and even after WW1, perhaps I need to pay a visit to Eastbourne again and have a browse in the library there; or take myself off to Lewes Record Office to look at maps.
This Spring, sometime...
Best wishes,
Keith
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Hi All
Yep all seems to fit better, where Tollgate school is, is what
we call "St Anthony's" but as you say not too far from Seaside,
Further along there towards Pevensey is a small close called
Langney Green - so I think generally we are in the right area.
Cheers
Sandra
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Hi
Found the link below which shows all the boundaries - Sussex Family History site.
http://www.sfhg.org.uk/ssxmap7.html#X
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra - trouble with the computer over the weekend, but all sorted now.
How old is the map you showed - is it in fact one of the Sussex Hundreds, or were they called Rapes? Wapentakes in the North, I believe....
Hope the snow has cleared in Eastbourne now,
best wishes,
Keith
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Hello, in Eastbourne we have both Langley and Langney, Langney Green is at the very east end of Eastbourne, way past the Archery pub and the Arlington Arms, also it is Salehurst Road, not Street as has been suggested.
Brenda [and OAP, born,bred and still living in Eastbourne]
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Hi, Brenda,
Lovely to hear the facts given by a born and bred Eastbourne person! And thanks for those details. I've just intervened in quite an animated thread in the Common Room about where a photo was taken - it was in Cambridge, where I have lived for the last 33 years. Now they're arguing about the photo's date, but I'm not getting involved in that...
Very best wishes,
Keith
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Keith,
It may be worth your while to take a look at the following:-
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
Put Langney in the box and then search, it should bring up the 1879 OS map for the area, scanning around I see it shows the Lodge and Archery pubs amongst things on it could be worth a look.
Trangy.
Guildfordian living in Langney!
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Thanks, Trangy,
I'm still not sure when Langley changed to Langney, or whether they are still interchangeable. I've had a look at the old map of 1879, and there really wasn't much there in those days, was there? Eastbourne was quite tiny compared to Brighton...
I once changed trains in Guildford hoping to get to somewhere nearby in Surrey, and ended up in Hampshire by mistake, if I remember...
Keith
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Interesting issue, what is the correct name? The Uckfield to Langney Bridge Turnpike Trust of 1754 clearly shows one spelling. The Yearkell and Gardener map of 1778 shows Langney point, yet the first Ordance Survey map (1793 survey Sheeet 88 Hastings, printed 1811) uses Langley, but the modern maps again show Langney.
As to Ivy Cottage, if it is possibly in Westham parish, it may be a bit further north or west than the end of the more modern Seaside road.
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Thanks very much for that, Rod,
I too had noticed how interchangeable Langney/Langley has become on the various maps, documents, and perhaps there is no definitive answer.
Thanks for choosing this thread to make your first posting - this is an excellent site, I guarantee!
Keith
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HI KEITH,MY NAME IS ANN,I NOW LIVE IN BRIBIE ISLAND AUSTRALIA BUT WAS BORN AND GREW UP IN EASTBOURNE.WE MUST BE RELATED AS MY MOTHERS MAIDEN NAME WAS SHERWOOD,HER FATHER GEORGE WILLIAM AND HIS FATHER GEORGE WILLIAM OF IVY COTTAGE ALSO WHICH I HAVE HEARD BY MY GRANDMOTHER MANY YEARS AGO CALLED BLACK COTTAGE.WHICH SIBLING DO YOU COME FROM?MY GRANDFATHER GEORGE WAS THE SECOND OF 17 CHILDREN AND BERTIE ENDED UP WITH HIS FAMILY IN AUSTRALIA TOO,AS DID CAROLINE AND FRANK FOR A FEW YEARS,SHE RETURNED TO EASTBOURNE BUT ONE OF HER DAUGHTERS STELLA STILL LIVES IN AUSTRALIA,VERY AGED NOW AND LIVING IN PERTH.WE HAVE ONLY JUST COME BACK FROM THE UK AND WE DID SOME RECORD SEARCHING WHILE OVER THERE.WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU,IF YOU WANT TO RESPOND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU MY EMAIL ADDRESS.
BEST WISHES
ANN
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Ann,
Oh, how exciting, and welcome to Rootschat!
It has always puzzled me that with as many as 17 children - I have only 14 on the radar, so you must let me know about the other ones - too expensive to send away for birth certificates for all of them to determine which SHERWOOD's born in Eastbourne from 1878 had George William and Annie/Hannah as their parents - sharp intake of breath, sentence getting a bit unwieldy; it has always puzzled me that I have never come across in my SHERWOOD family history research any other lines descended from that generation of siblings, the first nine of whom were remarkably all sons.
My family are descended from John Charles SHERWOOD, their third son, and the next one down from your ancestor, it seems. At some stage in his adulthood he went out to New Zealand, made a bit of money, was able to buy a house in Eastbourne, and married there in 1916, the same year that his father George William died. I've always been fascinated about where they lived, and you giving another name to their residence brings it to life for the first time...
I think you need to post another couple of times on here before I can send you a PM (Personal Message), so if you'd like to acknowledge this post, and then my reply, I will PM you with my e-mail address and we can begin to exchange SHERWOOD information...
How very good...!
Very best wishes, keith
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Hi Keith,
Thanks for your welcome,sorry about the caps,I have just been told it means you are shouting and people will not respond,so I am very glad you did. It sure is exciting and maybe between us we can piece more together on this line.When in the UK we did a number of record offices all over the Country and a lot is still on paper,I will now make an all out effort to put the Sherwood line first up on the computer.I went to St Marys Girls School and Bedewell,worked as a Telephonist first at Eastbourne then Derby. Lived in Milton Road as a girl my Mother was Dorothy Sherwood,her Mother Alice Gearing Barber,married George Willam Sherwood.I did also see you have been researching the Miles family as have I and still unable to find the Birth or Christening of Elizabeth Upton,did go to the Birmingham Record Office but not Coventry which is where I probably should have.
Very Best Wishes
Ann
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Ann,
Is that Milton Road in Eastbourne? (One of the main roads heading north out of Cambridge happens to be a Milton Rd...)
I managed to get a little bit further back with the UPTON family, mostly with the help of people on here. Have you found the thread I started - about Elizabeth, I think - and if not I'll look for it and send it to you. I also have the SHERWOOD's back to a John SHARWOOD/SHERWOOD who married a Fanny GRINYER at St Nicholas Brighton in 1804. Then I am not absolutely sure whether he is the same individual who I can trace back to Arundel and the 18thC, or the man who came from Arlington and roots back to the 16thC.
I have Hannah Miles birth and death certificates, and if you have not gathered those in your research I can let you have copies, lots of things in fact,
So, one more reply on this thread and we can continue by PM or e-mail. What is the time difference between GMT and where you are, by the way?
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
Yes that is Milton Rd in Old Town Eastnourne.I had found Elizabeth prior to reading your thread but have sent for two birth certificates both wrong as I know that her Father was a Tailor and have Census,would very much appreciate a copy of her Birth Certificate. Was going to send for her Death which I have details for but have not got to that yet,so if you are happy to send that would be wonderful indeed.Not too sure about George W Sherwood senior's parents as I had been following back on a Kent surname Line but I did find he was rather illusive.
Looking foward to chatting more,do you have Skype?
Regards Ann
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Ann,
Good, now we'll be able to PM one another. And no, I'm not on Skype unfortunately, so we can't as yet compare SHERWOOD family likenesses!
I have so few photos of the SHERWOOD family during their time in Eastbourne, just one of my grandfather John Charles SHERWOOD with the POLLARD family he married into, possibly in the garden of their house in 29, Jevington Gardens, perhaps after the end of World War One. Does your branch of the family have any snaps of the SHERWOOD family any time from the 1870's onwards in Eastbourne?
I'll PM you now, so we can discuss things in more detail, living relatives and so on...
Regards, keith.
p.s. The death certificate for Annie (Hannah) Maria (nee MILES) SHERWOOD shows her at the house of one of her sons, who is stated to be an A.C.SHERWOOD, in Windsor, in 1952. Could this have been her son Alfred, born 1892? Her age is given as 92, but I have her birth certificate that gives her date of birth as being in 1863, and therefore she could only have been 89. I think she had her first child, Albert, who was born in 1878, when she was only 15 and not yet married to our gt-grandfather George William, and maybe because of this always added 2 or 3 years to her age when asked in Censuses.
I did not know in her/my lifetime that I had a SHERWOOD gt-grandmother still alive until I was 5 years old, and therefore wish I had met her and had had a memory of her. Did you ever meet her - imagining that you might possibly be a bit older than I am, with a grandfather born 3 years before mine!
But I'm jumping the gun a bit, I'll get on the PM thing now...
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Keith,
I have a photo of my Grandfather at my Parents Wedding plus a few of the family Caroline & Frank (George & Johns Sister) I knew plus a few others that were given to me by Cousin Stella out here in OZ but none of Elizabeth when we get to emailing I can scan you some through.Do not have one of Hannah but she did remarry did you know that?
What do you mean by PM?I am new on Roots Chat and do not yet fully understand it all I do have two email addresses.
I was born in 1937,when were you born?
Regards Ann
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Ann,
I've sent you a personal message now, and we can communicate away from this thread...
You had a ten year start on me in life, then...!
Regards, keith
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Keith sherwood- I am trying to look at old areas of Eastbourne langney as my family are all from here, I do have some old pictures but was trying to get some information on 2ivy cottage langney Eastbourne around 1925 as my grandmother, father and auntie Sheila lived there. My father then moved to rotunda road which is in eye shot of where ivy cottage was. When I was a very young child I remember ivy cottage which was made of Flint. If this cottage was still standing it would be directly opposite a friend of mines house which is in Sevenoaks road langney, I have looked for foundations but Sevenoaks road is going over where it was stood. I am aware that somewhere within my family we have a picture of ivy cottage, but when my mum passed away four years ago everything was distrubuted between the family I am trying my best to locate this picture.
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Hi, Liz, and welcome to Rootschat!
And I do love it when what seems a dormant thread jangles into life again…
As you can see, I started this thread just one week short of ten years ago, and the last activity was just over four years ago…and so I would be absolutely delighted to see any pictures that you might be able to unearth that may give an indication of the location or even existence of Ivy Cottage. It's always a bit of a puzzle to me that although my gt-grandparents SHERWOOD had so many children, with the first nine all boys and therefore carrying on the male line, that I have never come across any other SHERWOOD descendants other than through my grandfather John Charles SHERWOOD's family.
Although I have since been contacted on Rootschat by someone who told me that my Gt-Grandma Annie remarried sometime after the death of her husband George William in 1916…
Very best wishes,
Keith
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FreeBMD has Hannah M Sherwood marrying Samuel Hobden Dec 1919 at Eastbourne
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Thank for your return message will try to get that picture also try to speak with a lady I came across who new my dad when he lived at Ivey cottage hope I'm writing this in right box need a five year to do my computer also can not spell speak again soon
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Thanks for that, Petmas,
I wrote to someone on Rootschat by PM about four years ago about this marriage and what subsequently happened to Hannah M Sherwood/Hobden. Must try and find our correspondence..
And Liz, if you do turn that photo up we can PM one another with details of either e-mail address or postal address (send a personal message via the facility on here), once you have done one more message, bringing your total of posts to 3.
Do please keep in touch!
Keith
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Hi think I can this now will send photo if I get hold of it I will also take photos of where the cottage was bye for now :D :D
Hi, Liz, and welcome to Rootschat!
And I do love it when what seems a dormant thread jangles into life again…
As you can see, I started this thread just one week short of ten years ago, and the last activity was just over four years ago…and so I would be absolutely delighted to see any pictures that you might be able to unearth that may give an indication of the location or even existence of Ivy Cottage. It's always a bit of a puzzle to me that although my gt-grandparents SHERWOOD had so many children, with the first nine all boys and therefore carrying on the male line, that I have never come across any other SHERWOOD descendants other than through my grandfather John Charles SHERWOOD's family.
Although I have since been contacted on Rootschat by someone who told me that my Gt-Grandma Annie remarried sometime after the death of her husband George William in 1916…
Very best wishes,
Keith
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Death registered for Hannah M Hobden, aged 82, Eastbourne 3/1946. There are a few Samuels of roughly the same age but the best fit looks like 3/1950 at Barnstable aged 86 as the others are about 10 years younger
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Yes, Petmas,
I'm pretty much sure that that is my gt-grandma's death registration. Thanks so much for looking up that too!
...and Liz, very kind of you to offer to look for that photo - would mean a great deal to me to be able to see a picture of Ivy Cottage at last. I'll PM you also now, so that you can see how it works.
Keith
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…and I have now - as I really ought to have from the first moment that Liz came on this thread the other day - looked back and read the whole of this thread again. And of course the lady called Ann living in Australia (Antonacb) had told me that her family are descended from the second of George William and Hannah's sons, George William himself; my own family come from the third son, John Charles. She also said that she remembered Ivy Cottage as being referred to as "Black Cottage". Liz says that she thinks it was "made of flint". Perhaps it the stones were knapped, then this would have given the cottage a dark appearance? A picture is beginning to emerge from the uncertainty…! I wonder too whether Ivy Cottage was the name given to it when it was built, or whether it became known as that because of ivy growing over it ultimately...
Keith