RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: dot on Saturday 26 February 05 16:05 GMT (UK)
-
~~~~~~~~
I am trying to find out about Joseph Maitland who was born in 1860 but does not show up on any of the UK censuses. He was a coal miner in Co Durham and may have come from Ireland as many miners did. His father's name was Robert - that's the only info. I have on him. He lived for some time in Gateshead and married for the second time in 1901. He was a Methodist lay preacher in Gateshead, therefore presumably a Protestant.
-
Hi Dot
Do you have the Marriage Certificate from his second marriage ?
Where did the marriage take place ?
What was his profession then ?
Was his father still alive ?
Is that where you got his age from ?
Have you looked for the first marriage ?
It's very likely there will be an entry for Joseph on the 1901 Census but mis-transcribed. If you can give me more details I can take a look.
Regards
Helen K
-
Hi Helen
Yes I have the MC from his second marriage. He was married in Gateshead and his profession was labourer. His father was Robert Maitland (deceased). His age was given as 40. He does turn up in the 1901 census - one of your fellow investigators found it. It was mistranscribed as Maillande. In that he gives his age as 39! So he lost a year.
The only other Joseph Maitland I can find in the Pittington area is one who was born earlier (sometimes spelt Mateland), who was a miner and he seems to have been widowed in the 1890s which would fit in but there is no BC for either Joe Maitlands which is odd. I am going to have to have a look at the microfiche for Pittington parish. If these two Joes are the same man then each time the wrong age has been given. It's all very strange
Dot
-
Hi Dot
I'm glad you've now got Joseph in 1901. Where was he then ? Are there any clues on that entry that might suggest where he was in 1891 - such as children from the previous marriage ?
Regards
Helen K
-
Hi Helen
He was still at the same address he was at on the marriage certificate from 1900 - in Gateshead. I don't know why I didn't think of checking the address. Just goes to show you shouldn't rely on how the handwritten records are transcribed.
The entry I have for 1891 which I think may be him even though the age and profession are different (38 and coal miner) is at 62 Hamsterley Colliery, Pittington, nr. Durham. He may have got fed up with being a miner and just did labour work after that. Who knows. His wife was Eleanor (spelt Ellenor on the 1881 census) and they seem to have had an adopted daughter Elizabeth 16 (although she is shown as a daughter on the 1881 census).
The 1881 entry shows Joseph Mateland aged 29. An Ellen Maitland died in Gateshead in 1896 aged 50. The age is right, Ellen could be an abbreviation for Ellenor (Eleanor).
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Your Joseph Maitland - he is undoubtedly from the large family of Ulster Maitlands who crossed to Co. Durham in the 1840's (famine time). The heads of these families were James (born about 1790) and his wife Jane (maiden name as yet unknown). They came from Comber town, Co. Down, but not all at the same time. Some were already married, some with children, some not yet married. I am convinced your Joseph is the one born about 1853, in the Durham area (Pittington), and who married Eleanor Hopper in 1873. His father was a Robert, born Comber Town, but about whose age there is great confusion: I think he was born1811/1813. I can find no record of Eleanor's (Ellen's?) death, but that proves nothing, especially as no-one could decide how to spell Maitland (just as people were very vague about their ages).
Robert, his father, had come over with grandfather James, and died in 1892. In 1861, Joseph was living with his grandfather James; in 1871 he was lodging in Tow Law, with Mr & Mrs Wilson; his father Bob and his brother Jim were there too. By 1881, spelt Mateland, he was with his wife & child, Elizabeth, born at GATESHEAD c.1874, at Collierley (is this the same as Hamsterley colliery?). The 1891 census says that Elizabeth was their ADOPTED daughter. I haven't found Joseph in 1901, but this may relate to the changes of spelling that occurred. Again, I have found no record of his further marriage, but the same things apply. The Patriarch James, by the way, died in 1864 in Pittington; his wife Jane died in 1867.
What you say about him being a Methodist preacher is interesting: he had a cousin, David ("Davey Maitland") who was noted as a (Methodist?) preacher at Seaham Harbour. I THINK the Maitlands were Presbyterians when they came across: my grandfather became a strong Anglo-Catholic. He used to read religious tracts in the toilet!
I am a Maitland on my mother's side.
-
Dot
I have found an ELLEN MAITLAND who died 4th quarter 1896, at GATESHEAD. Volume 10a page 533. Death certificate might be helpful to you!
-
Hi Murphicle
It's great to find someone who know about "our" bit of the Maitland family! Joseph does indeed show up on the 1901 census with a really weird spelling - Maillande or something like that. Anyway it was the correct one although he's suddenly lost 7 years in age! He married my husband's grandmother who was 22 in 1900. So Eleanor (Ellenor, Ellen) his first wife and first child, Elizabeth (whether adopted or not) were not relevant for the purpose of my research. I'm not sure where Collierley is - my geography of Durham is poor (although I lived on Tyneside most of my life!!).
I think Robert was born in 1822/23 although his age varies on the censuses. I think it likely that they were Presbyterians to begin with an probably adopted Methodism later on because it was more prevalent in the pit areas.
Do you know anything of the Londonderry mines? Did the Maitlands come because of the potato famine or were they brought over by the Marquis of Londonderry to break the 1844 miners' strike? Or a combination of the two reasons?
I have a little bit of info. from Co Down. namely that James Maitland was a tenant farmer in 1824 in Cattogs, Comber on land owned by the Londonderrys.
I had to laugh at your remarks about Davey Maitland. My husband, Richard, has a brother Davey who also reads in the toilets - only comincs though!
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
-
Hi Dot
Busy day, only just been able to get to net. Can you check what the "wrong" name was for Joseph in 1901 - I'm interested to follow up, as I'm trying to get a total picture. My bet for Robert's age is 10 years older, though i can't now remember why i came to that conclusion (I think it was by comparing the ages of James (1791) sons and daughters. There was a better "space" for him at the earlier date. I knew about the Londonderry connection - but my ignorance of Durham history is showing. your suggestion about miners' strike 1844 seems convincing; I had always said I thought Londonderry "brought" them over, but did not know this reason. (Though i suspect the later arrivals in the family just followed "Dad"). I had vague info about Cattog, but didn't know about who owned this land - where did you find that?
You got me slightly wrong re reading theology on the toilet: that was my grandfather, James Samuel, who was a high churchman, not Davey Maitland, his (2nd cousin?), who was the Methodist preacher. Whether James preached while on the toilet, i don't know, but they were outside toilets in those days!
Murphicle
-
Hi Dot
I have tried all the variant spellings of Maitland on FreeBMD, over 1850 to 1864, Durham reg area. And this is what I got:
Joseph Middleton, born "Mar" 1853, vol 10a p.197. Middleton IS one of the variant spellings I have found on censuses, of people I KNOW to be Maitlands.
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
I have checked the Pittington parish records and Joe Maitland was born in 1853 but not registered.
Dot
-
Hi Murphicle again
I think the 1901 census showed Joe as Maillane or Maillande - something like that. Anyway he was living at 34 Walker Street, Gateshead at the time which is the same address as I have on the copy of his marriage certificate to Hannah Powell.
I think Joseph has always been confused about his age (as many people were) but by knocking 7 years off when he married a 22 year old woman seems like he wanted to appear even younger. Could be my suspicious mind or a genuine mistake. As there appears to be no other Joe Maitland in the area, this has to be the one and Joe's father's name is given as "Robert" "deceased" and profession "coal miner" on the marriage certificate.
I was quite ignorant of Durham history too but it has improved in the last few weeks!! I am visiting the Tyne and Wear Archives in Newcastle in a couple of weeks and after that I will plan a visit to Durham Records office (though at the moment I don't know when this will be) and check out some info. - the agent for Cattogs was John Andrews and there is correspondence between him and the Londonderrys about the tenants. For instance there is a report of the evidence given by George Hunter, agent at Belmont, Penshaw and Winyard collieries about "using Irish labourers as strike-breakers and putting down the 1844 miners' strike". The same may have happened in the other Londonerry pits of the area, including Pittington.
You didn't say which "Maitland" was your ancestor.
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Just a brief reply - I have to go out again.
I envy your being able to pop in to the record offices etc - I'm planning to make a trip of it some time - we live in W. Yorks. I still think "Joe Middleton" is your Joe Maitland! Try his birth cert!
I'll be following up your useful leads - they make sense.
Im descended from Robert's brother (Joe's uncle) William, via his son Samuel (who also was born in Ulster, and who married Hugh Maitland's daughter - his cousin! - but that's another story!
Have you got the stuff about (another) Robert Maitland and his death in the Trimdon disaster? & (another) James Maitland who died in a mine accident in 1866 (from memory)?
The Maitlands seem to have been close buddies of Mahaffeys from Ulster (presumably Comber) - have you come across these?
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
Thanks for reply. I forgot to mention last time how I found Cattogs. Have a look at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com under SURNAMES.
Now I can see where you fit into the family tree. I'll check that Joe Middleton out as you suggest.
Popping into the records offices isn't as easy as you think. We live in south west Scotland but I go to the Newcastle area every two months or so.
Yes I had read about the other Robert Maitland who was killed in Trimdon. At first I thought that might be "our" Robert Maitland but of course the age and location were wrong.
Can't say i've heard of the Mahaffeys. My brother, who has a friend in Pittington, said there are quite a few Maitlands living there.
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Yes, through another website I've been in touch with 2 Maitlands, who are cousins (of each other). There are several Maitland families, related to the Comber line, spread around mostly N/E Durham.
Just a few, my grandfather & his sisters, moved down to the west Riding in the early 1900's, which is where my line comes in. My dear late mother always told us we were from Scottish Maitlands - well, we are, but from much further back than she thought! (I guess late 17th century, settles from Galloway to Ulster).
Thanks for the web address.
Murphicle
-
Hi Dot
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:oBO2unVqXnoJ:www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/the_north_east/history/echomemories/durham/105/020205.html+%22coal+strike%22%2B1844&hl=en
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
I hope that web address worked. I had a go and couldn't find the file. However if you do a search on People's Names of Co Down that should find it. The website is run by someone called Ros Davies.
Well when I find out more about the Comber connection, I hope to trace back the family to Scotland - some ambition, eh - the Ulster Scots also have a colourful history.
I suppose you already know that it's a Norman name and anglicised from Mautelant to Maitland. Have you visited Thirlestane Castle in the Borders, the country seat of the Earls of Lauderdale? It's very interesting.
When I'm in Newcastle next Friday (6 May) I will write down all the info. for the Maitlands from the Pittington parish records from 1840 and send you what I find.
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Murphicle
I just checked that website you mentioned. It's very interesting
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Yes, the address worked, but I can't follow it up yet - busy.
Yes, I know about the borders families (mum was convinced we were just a few generations away from Aristos; but when you read their record, it's best to pretend you're NOT a Maitland. they were a treacherous lot!). Clan chief says virtually all Maitlands must descend from the one family.
Thanks for the promise of info: look forward to it.
I'm also interested in the group of Maitland families who emigrated from Ireland to Canada about the same time. Unfortunately, the canadian census doesn't specify county of origin. but I have noticed that many of the same Christian names crop up.
Have a good Bank holiday if we don't contact before then (Scotland? Not sure!)
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
I don't suppose the Maitlands were any better or any worse than any other family at the time. But many of them were military leaders, politicians (Maitland of Lethington for instance - secretary to Mary Queen of Scots) and a Maitland even ruled Scotland for a short while, but many were poets, musicians, etc.
Both Richard and I are Geordies and moved to SW Scotland in 1998 - we're semi-retired. Richard is tickled pink that he's come a full circle (although I am the one who instigated the family history research) and has ended up where his forebears originated (perhaps not the exact region). And he's started singing Irish songs - I'm getting a bit sick of hearing "The Mountains of Mourne" and "The Star of County Down"!!
Have a good weekend too!!
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Yes, but what I meant was - who would want to be associated with ANY (or most of) aristo family!
Musicians - this one still is!
Galloway: apparently they settled in Eccles, Penpont, and Auchenbreck.
What makes us laugh in our family is the thought of my grandfather's Ulster ancestors spinning rapidly in their graves when he became an Anglo-Catholic! Also, the fact that any thought that my mother's (paternal) origins were in Ireland would have given her acute indigestion (she objected to my sister going out with an Irish Catholic despite being married to one!!)
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
Richard is scraping away at his violin just now - he hasn't played it in years (and never was much good). Now the house resounds to Irish ditties!!
What instrument do you play?
yes I know what you mean about the aristos. They were a pretty foul lot. History fascinates me though and you would be surprised the amount of Scots who know very little about their own history and think their heroes (i.e. Robert the Bruce) were Scottish. And even today all but one of the titled landowners (and many of their "Scottish" names such as Sinclair) are of Norman origin.
Don't know about Eccles and Auchenbreck but Penpont is only 14 miles or so north of here. There could be another Penpont of course as the Scots like doubling up on names just to confuse people.
Yes religion has caused so many problems for people hasn't it. Richard's eldest (half-)brother (born to a different father before his mother married) married a Catholic and although none of Joseph Maitland's ancestors are particularly religious, this union was frowned upon. The Catholic in question is a lovely lady, now in her 70s and an asset to any family but prejudice often raises its ugly head.
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot
We've a few musicians in the family - but I play organ & piano (& sing). Two of my sons have music degrees, and some of my Maitland Aunts and Uncles were musical (nature or nurture?)
Uncanny that Richard may be living just 14 miles from where his forebears were living 350 years ago! You get all sorts of weird surprises when you're researching family trees: e.g., Ann & I have always felt affection for the Lower Wensleydale area (especially Masham). then we found out - what she hadn't known before - that that's where at least two lines of her ancestors were living up to 150 years ago. Spooky.
We all know that Robert the Bruce was a Hartlepudlian (well, I know he was Norman, but that's just a detail.) It always amuses me to hear the Etonian accents of the Scottish aristocrats!
Murphicle
-
Dot
Just checked the map. Eccles is away over in the borders, so the chief seems wrong about that. I find it's Auchenbrack (not breck), and it's 8 miles nw of Penpont. Nithsdale is Maitland country.
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
I think a smart move would be for me to join the local family history society here in Nithsdale. They may have all sorts of info. just waiting for me to discover.
I know what you mean about having an affinity for a place (although Wensleydale is a lovely place anyway). Ever since I was a teenager, I felt a sort of affinity for Bohemia - goodness knows why. I haven't established a connection yet although dad's ancestors were Anglo-Saxons and there may be a Bohemian-German connection. I was thrilled to be able to visit Prague after eastern Europe was opened up. But there I go waffling on again.
Incidentally the only one to carry on the Maitland name in Richard's family is his brother's daughter's son - she's an unmarried mother so the big advantage is that her son has her surname. However instead of choosing a traditional family name, she called him Zak which sounds more like a dog sneezing than a name.
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot
Zak, wasn't he king of Albania - oh no, that was Zog. Now Zog Maitland would have a ring about it. We do still have some (not many) with the Maitland name still here in W. Yorks - but I've only just re-established contact with them after 30/40 years. that's a good result of this hobby. There are also some 2nd cousins in the Midlands, but I have not yet pursued that.
My mother, who was much concerned with the Maitland ancestry, & claimed to be able to spot a Maitland chin, liked to claim James Stewart as "one of ours", as, I gather his middle name was Maitland. Well, could be.
Let me know if you make any progress in Nithsdale.
Murphicle
-
Hi Murphicle
As a matter of interest I checked the Dumfries and Galloway phone book. Not many Maitlands left there. I located Auchenbreck (not Auchenbrack) on the map which is just north of Penpont.
In the "History of Dumfries" it states "The daugher and heiress of Eklis married Richard de Mantelent, also of Norman blood. In course of time the original name was transferred to lands owned by the family in Penpont; and the family patronymic was changed to Maitland; hence the Maitlands of Eccles, one of the most ancient houses in the South of Scotland". I have located Eccles in the Borders but perhaps there is another Eccles in D&G.
James Stewart's middle name was in fact Maitland - one of my favourite actors. His family were Ulster Scots who left Co Antrim in 1785 to go to America (I have a fairly good library of film star biographies).
Don't know about the chin though - Rich has a little beard so I've never seen his chin.
Having checked out the Maitland Clan (Clan??) website (the one with the piechart at the top) I see they claim they can trace your descent from 1250. Some claim! Or is it just a ploy to buy their expensive "pedigree"?
Don't know about Zak being the king of Albania, but it's a bloomin' awful name. Zog would have been better!!
Regards
Dot
-
Hi Dot,
I've created a link to your Maitland in Ireland - again (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=49850.msg1491621#msg1491621) thread.
Christopher