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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 09 10:22 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I first made enquiries about members of an extended FLINT family who served in World War One. This is the thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,391031.0.html
Having received a huge amount of help, I am a bit closer to knowing the answers to the WWI questions, but have gained a vast amount of info on the intricate web of FLINTs in Clayton through the 19th century.
The 1911 census has shown that my colleague's gf is the son of James H. and Mary A. FLINT. James was born in Chorlton on Medlock in c1875; Mary was born in Bradford, Manchester in c1877. They had been married 12 years.
A matching marriage registration in Q4 1898 records James Hunston Flint and Mary Alice Yates.
I would appreciate some help in tracing James. I can find now birth registration, nor a match in the 1881 census.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
What was James occp. in 1911?
In 1901 Census is he the one shown as born Manchester, living alone with children Mary,3 and Thomas 1. Actual image Mary is his wife aged 23 born Bradford. Occp Fur??? cutter.
Trish
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Hi Justin,
Have you seen this marriage? Might be relevant:
from Lancashire bmds
Thomas FLINT m Esther HUNSTON 1877 at St John's Manchester
free bmd ref is Manchester Jan-March 1877, vol 8d page 269
Hope this helps
:) Barbara
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Hello Trish and Barbara,
Trish - you have found the right man in 1901. He was a fustian cutter at the time; he went on to become a green grocer.
Barbara - That is very interesting. Have to check the 1881 census again.
Justin
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Snap Barbara I was just about to post that :)
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1881 is James down as Job aged 5 ???
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In 1901 Census is he the one shown as born Manchester, living alone with children Mary,3 and Thomas 1. Actual image Mary is his wife aged 23 born Bradford. Occp Fur??? cutter.
Trish
FUSTIAN CUTTER = a person who work on trimming velvet.
Migky ;)
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Thank you MIGKY :) I was being lazy and should have googled it.
If Thomas is our man he seems to have had 3 wives ;D
Trish
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Many of my family members were Fustian cutter and came from Cheshire to Manchester with there trade.
Here are a few more flint's to thrown a spanner in the works ( i have a bag of spanners here with every ones name on) ;D
Buried in Phillips park C-of-E section, Mary A Flint. Grave number i 1978 on 28th June 1924. Age 70 & married ( hubby must be still alive) Address 474 Mill street Bradford.
1913 Daniel Flint Householder 474 Mill street Bradford.
1927 Albert Flint Greengrocer 782 Aston new road Clayton
Miss Alice Flint 62 Clayton street Clayton.
James Flint Greengrocer, 2 FLINT street Clayton.
James Flint 98 Whiteley street Clayton.
John Flint Beer retailer (off sales) 8 Garner street Clayton.
Thomas Buller Flint Motor engineer 8 Flint street Clayton.
Thomas H Flint Householder 4 Flint street.
Migky ;)
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It may be that the Flint / Hunston marriage I found was a bit previous... (must be one of Migky's spanners ;D)
this family on the 1881 look more promising;
Back of Ashton New Rd, 4 Boothmans Buildings
Richard Flint 27, Carter b. Droylsden
Mary Flint 30 b. Wales
Thomas Flint 9
John Edward Flint 6
James Flint 3 born Clayton Droylsden
Hugh Flint
:) Barbara
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I'm ducking in case you have my name on one ;D
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(http://i27.tinypic.com/5ygrq1.jpg)
CLICK 4 FLINT MANCHESTER (http://www.spinningtheweb.org.uk/bookbrowse.php?page=136&book=940.467+N1&theme=home&size=800x1079)
Migky ;)
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Missed ;D ;)
Gosh I never realised that Flint was such a common name.
Trish
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Migky - Love the spanner! I shall show your list of Flints to my colleague to see who he recognises - if anybody.
Barbara - I do not believe that James Hunston was the son of Richard and Mary; Chorlton on Medlock and Clayton are close to each, but not adjacent.
I shall urge my colleague to buy James' marriage cert.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
Yes, the marriage cert is a must :)
As first son is names Thomas, I think James father is likely to be a Thomas.
Also the Thomas, born 1810, with 3 younger wives is a fustian cutter.
Cheers,
Trish
EDIT; Also cannot find James Flints birth on freebmd, but there is a James Henry HUNSTON birth, December 1875, Chorlton 8c 750. Maybe they married later if they are his parents??
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The marriage cert will be ordered tomorrow!
My colleague was always told by his grandparents and father that the Flints had come to Clayton from Tideswell in Derbyshire. He even recalls going to Tideswell as a lad (a good 35 years ago) with his father to look at the Flint graves in the local cemetery. Apparently a local man came out of a house across the road from the cemetery and asked what they were doing - he turned out to be a Flint!
Anyway, the 1881 census records two Flints from Tideswell living in east Manchester:
Samuel Flint, b. c1833, living at 78 Ashton New Road, Clayton with 10 year-old son, Washington.
William Flint, b. c1835, living at 2 Halls Buildings, Droylsden with older wife.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
I just checked my mail before going to bed and saw your reply so logged back in.
I think this is spooky ;D
1891 Census
6 Townhead, Primrose Cottage
TIDESWELL, DERBYSHIRE
RG12/2777/180/2
Thomas FLINT, 81,head, mar, fustian cutter, born Manchester
Esther, 53, mar, Manchester
1881 you have, married to Esther, living in Manchester
1871 he is a widower, youngest child 3mths, in Newton Lancs
1861 married to Kate, living in Newton, son SAMUEL,18 and TA DA- Mother Mary FLINT 76, born TIDESWELL ;)
1851 Cant find yet
1841 In Manchester married to Mary
All these he has same occp, 2 much younger wives + lots of children. I think I have found all 3 marriages as well.
I am just hoping the 1881 Census Job, which looks like Jos is short for James and not Joseph.
Even if he is not your Jame's Father there is a definite connection to Tideswell.
Cheers,
Trish
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Trish,
Thanks very much for that - very interesting indeed. All roads lead to Tideswell!
I shall look through the IGI batches for any matches.
Does this mean that John Flint (b. 1830) who started out as a fustian cutter was Thomas' eldest son? In fact, was Thomas the progenitor ne plus ultra?
I would be very interested to see the details of your census finds.
Could Jos be Jas = James?
Take care, Justin
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Hi Justin,
I have just spent a 12hr day at work so dont feel like typing up al census entries. I will do that after you get the marriage cert if you dont mind.
Re- John born 1830, Was he born Lancashire or Derbyshire?
Thomas in 1841 I think;
1841 Census
Manchester, Lancashire
HO107/576/9/Manchester
Thomas FLINT, 30, fustian cutter
Mary, 30
JOHN, 11
Thomas, 6
Edward, 1
All born in County
Trish
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Trish,
Now that's a tiring shift!
John was born in Lancashire!! He could well be the one you found in the 1841 census.
I shall twist my colleague's arm now.
Justin
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Last one for tonight :)
Marriage;
Thomas FLINT
Mary MIDDLETON, 07 June 1829, Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire
Christening;
John FLINT
21 February 1830, Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire
Parents THOMAS and MARY
Sibling;
Alfred 06 July 1832
This batch only covers christenings 1829-1832
Later Batch;
Thomas Middleton FLINT, 28 December 1834
Later again;
Edward Alfred FLINT, 08 December 1839
All christened same place same parents. All children match with 1841 census details :)
Death;
Alfred Flint
Christened 06 July 1836, Newton by Manchester
Died 06 September 1836
Parents Thomas FLINT and Mary MIDDLETON
So that is marriage 1 for Thomas sorted. I had already found marriage but not christenings til just now.
I still cant find them in 1851 Census, but by 1861 census he is married to another woman.
cheers,
trish
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Hello My maiden name was flint and my great grandfather, grandfather and father all lived at 8 Garner Street Clayton, as did I, until it was pulled down for urban renewal in the 70s. I was the last person to be born there and the line has now finished because I am one of three daughters. My father died in 1973 and as my mother was not popular among the family, we never saw or heard from any of my father's side of the family again. It was the Flints of Garner street, that Flint Street was named after, as far as I am aware and yes there were a lot of relatives in and around Clayton, including Droylsden, where John and Ruth lived before 8 Garner Street sometime between 1891 and 1901. I don't know if John and Ruth actually inherited from John's father, or he was the first person to own it. My great grandmother's maiden name was Ruth Yates and she was born around 1867, great grandfather being about 3 years younger than her. I am assuming my grandfather was their son John, but will have that confirmed as soon as I recieve my father's marriage certificate. The only other boy I could see from the census was Leonard and two sisters Edith and Pauline. From what I was told as a child, the Flints used to own a great amount of Clayton.
Many of my family members were Fustian cutter and came from Cheshire to Manchester with there trade.
Here are a few more flint's to thrown a spanner in the works ( i have a bag of spanners here with every ones name on) ;D
Buried in Phillips park C-of-E section, Mary A Flint. Grave number i 1978 on 28th June 1924. Age 70 & married ( hubby must be still alive) Address 474 Mill street Bradford.
1913 Daniel Flint Householder 474 Mill street Bradford.
1927 Albert Flint Greengrocer 782 Aston new road Clayton
Miss Alice Flint 62 Clayton street Clayton.
James Flint Greengrocer, 2 FLINT street Clayton.
James Flint 98 Whiteley street Clayton.
John Flint Beer retailer (off sales) 8 Garner street Clayton.
Thomas Buller Flint Motor engineer 8 Flint street Clayton.
Thomas H Flint Householder 4 Flint street.
Migky ;)
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Hello Kay,
Great to hear from you. I am still trying to coerce my colleague into obtaining some BMD certs so that he can progress with his lineage.
The only Ruth marrying a John Flint in the right period that I could find on FreeBMD was a Ruth ROBLEY. Are you absolutely certain about her maiden surname?
Interestingly, the James Hunston Flint from whom my colleague descends, married a Mary Alice Yates. Was she perhaps related to Ruth?
My colleague's grandparents (Nelson & Winifred) lived at 782 Ashton New Road, opposite the church. She had a corner shop just behind in Ecceshall Street.
Justin
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Hello Justin
Yes I am absolutely positive about ruth, I have the 1891 and 1901 census and marriage cert. There is a Prestwich connection here, so it would not be a surprise if Alice's parents were not from there either. I have also since found the John Flint that was married to Ruth died in WWI in Flanders 1917, it also looks like his son John may have died there too. Ruth died in 1915. My Grandfather is Leonard Flint, who then named my father John. I am sure of the information because it shows the address I was born at in the 1901. I have also found that John's father who was born in 1830 was married to Betsy, who was born in 1847, they lived at Flint buildings, so I think they started building their business's prior to 1830, this is from the 1831 census, but as the marriage certs did not show the maiden names then, I do not know what Betsy's name had been. I think your Flint is actually a relation to mine, from the proximity, but you never know. When Clayton still existed as it was, Flint street was only round the corner from Garner St. The reason I think my family were a little higher in the pecking order is because 8 Garner st was quite a large house and shop, with four bedrooms, attics and cellars, but I am only going off what I remember from early childhood. :) Hope this helps you. My Grandfather married Minnie Fitzgerald, she died before I was born. My family were very well known in the area though, I do remember that. There was a problem with my grandparent's marriage due to Minnie being catholic I think, I know this, because it filtered down to my father's burial, which was a farce.
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Hello Kay,
In which year did John Flint and Ruth Yates marry?
James Hunston Flint stated out as a fustian cutter. However, by 1911 he was running the greengrocer's shop at 2 Flint Street. He must have been a cousin of your John senior.
My data shows that your John was born in about 1870. That was surely too old to have served in WWI, unless he was already a regular serviceman. What makes you think that he died in action? Moreover, if he died in 1917, who was the John Flint beer retailer of 8 Garner Street in 1927? I am currently assuming that it is their son John (Leonard's brother) who is comemorated on the war memorial in Clayton. Did Leonard serve?
I was trying to find Garner Street on a modern map. Does it still exist?
Justin
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Hi Justin
Ok, in answer to your questions, there are lots of johns, which is good and bad for this kind of thing. The John that is commemorated is probably Leonard's brother, my great uncle. I would be interested to know where the memorial can be found, as I have never seen it. I thought he was a bit old too, he would have been in his 40s and yes he was born around 1870, as his wife was born in 1867, but she did die in 1915 and he might have volunteered, I don't know. Leonard did serve, he was awarded the victory medal and another I can't remember the name of. I didn't save the source for their marriage, so am going to have to find it again, but they seemed to be quite recently married in 1891, as the census say that their eldest son, John is just over 7 mths old at the time and they are living in Droylsden at that time, which makes sense, so I think they got married around 1889/90, they are then seen in 8 garner st by 1901
Garner st no longer exists after the urban renew, it is now the car park of the health centre sadly, but they did name a close after the Flints, so there is a Flint Close, the whole area is a dive now, from what I have seen a few years ago, I no longer live in the north, so have not been there for a long time.
If you go on wikipedia photos under clayton, there is one photo of the corner of 8 Garner st and Flint st I think. If you have probs finding it, tell me and I will see if I can see it again. I would not be surprised if it did not appear in a publication to do with old clayton, if one exists.
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hello Justin
I just thought I would bring you up to date with the Flint search. I wrote an email to the taxi firm my father used to work from periodically, while mum looked after the shop at Garner St and had an answer from a lady, who used to live at 9 Garner St, whose father remembers a lot about the Flints. Apparently all the Flints and their businesses were connected in the Clayton, Droylsden areas, sometimes they appear as prestwich and ashton under lyne too, because the borders kept changing, but they were all in Clayton. For me this clears questions up, as some people were shown to have died in prestwich, but they in fact died in Clayton. The question about the war memorial also has an answer, you see my family had mixed catholic/protestent marriage and so the protestant John, can be seen on the St Cross Church memorial and the catholic John on the memorial in phillips park. I will be having a chat with this person who remembers so much about my family in a while and if I can find out anything for you, just give me your quesitons and I will see if he can answer them, as it seems its all the same family.
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Hello Kay,
This is fabulous stuff.
The geography is at times confusing. You may find this overview useful:
Clayton was part of the following registration districts:
before 1894 see Droylsden parish
1894 & 1895 Ashton Under Lyne (sometimes "Ashton" or "Ashton & Oldham" in early listings)
1895 to 1896 Prestwich
1896 North Manchester
I shall try to press my colleague to order the certs to progress the research. Although, I too am certain that all these Flints are one family - originally from Tideswell in Derbyshire - it is odd that James Hunston Flint was born in Chorlton-upon-Medlock (acc. to 1911 census).
Did you manage to refind John and Ruth's marriage cert?
Justin
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Kay,
Do you know whose son Catholic John was?
The CWGC database contains no clear matches for either John.
Justin
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I don't know what the CWGC is in honesty, I am new to this, so would appreciate any more lines of discovery. Basically, the John on the St Cross memorial will be protestant, as St Cross is a protestant church, if that helps you. I have not finished looking at this line yet, but hope all will become clear when I have :)
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CWGC = Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
Their website (www.cwgc.org) has a database of all known war graves.
Justin
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Hi, I have taken a look at the link you sent me, but both the casualty number and service numbers are missing from the data on the memorials. I do remember the lady I spoke to yesterday, said that some families had their own memorial in their local cemetries if they could afford them, and as this strand of Flints was wealthy I suspect this might be the case here, so maybe that has an impact on what is on the link. I don't know just guessing. The doc I have shows the numbers quite clearly and rather insensitively the word dead is written in capital letters across the paper.
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Hello,
The marriage cert was finally ordered and arrived last week.
James Hunston Flint's father was indeed named as 'Thomas Flint (deceased), fustian cutter'.
Mary Alice was the daughter of Robert Yates.
Justin
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As Droylsden gets a mention on this thread have you all checked out the burial site that Tameside has? There are loads of FLINT burial records on there and for FREE.
Migky ;)
CLICK 4 TAMESIDE BURIALS (http://public.tameside.gov.uk/candc/regenq.asp)
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You may also want to check out the absent voters list for Clayton 1918 to 1923 held at Manchester central library. This can not be done one line, you will have to visit the library. It gives names/ranks & service numbers of men who served WW1 at an address.
Migky ;)
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Justin
So great to see your post and the discussion. My partner's mother is a Flint with lots of knowledge of the people you are talking about. Her father was Thomas Flint and her grandparent lived in Tideswell and were fustian cutters.
Are you still stuck on anything in particular that you would like first hand knowledge on? Have you been able to unearth any pictures?
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Hello Sian,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Great to hear from you.
Which Thomas was your partner's father; Nelson's older brother?
The one thing left to clear up is whether the birth cert of James Henry Hunstan (aka James Hunstan Flint) names his father.
I would be very interested to hear more about your partner's line.
Best wishes,
Justin
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Yes it was Nelson's older brother. Nelson was my partner's mother's (bear with me!) Uncle. As an aside, I am told that the big horse was named Nelson as well! My partner's mother, E, is now 83 (I think) and remembers a lot of the people who are mentioned in your threads, including her grandparents in Tideswell. I am going over to see her tonight and will take the information for her to see.
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James Hunstan Flint was E's grandfather. You are right in his parents being Thomas and Esther. E does not know about birth certificate and therefore if they were married when James was born.
Got mixed up earlier. It was her great grandparents who lived in Tideswell. She didn't know about the move from Manchester to Tideswell before going back. Fascinating stuff. E thinks that she has met you colleague as a little boy in High Lane.
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Hello Sian,
My colleague was very excited and immediately tried to contact his widowed mother to see if she recalls meeting her husband's cousin E. I going to urge him to order the Hunston birth cert.
Have you been to see E already?
Justin
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Justin
Has your colleague been able to talk to his mum yet?
Sian