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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cannie lad on Tuesday 07 July 09 16:55 BST (UK)
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My g.g.grandfather was a John George Goodwin who appears on his son's baptism certificate on 27 April 1830 in Eton as "George Goodwin - servant" and as "John George Goodwin - servant" on his son's wedding certificate in Farnham Royal, Bucks. 12 Jan 1852. I have tried to find more about him but he does not appear on any census that I have checked so far. On the baptism cert. his wife is shown as "Rebecca". All searches for Rebecca Goodwin have failed.
It's been suggested to me that John George Goodwin might have been employed at Windsor Castle as a servant and chose to have his son baptised in nearby Eton. I have been able to record his son's life from 1830 to his death in 1913, but so far, John George and his Rebecca have proved to be the proverbial wall.
Would anyone be kind enough to do a lookup in the 1851 Berks. census to try to trace them for me?
Thanks
Jack
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might be easier searching for the son c1830 - whats his name, and I'll look in 1841 too :)
Charles George ?
suspect you know he's lodging in West Wycombe in 1851 ?
HO107/1720; Folio: 146; Page: 17
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Jack,
I assume the son is Charles George who married an Emma ?
In which case in the 1841 and 1851 census he is not living with his parents.
Harry
Update:
I've looked at the census for both Rebecca and John George / George. I can't see anything obvious.
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probably the same Charles is with another family in Chipping Wycombe in 1841
HO107/55/6; High Wycombe; District: 6; Folio: 6; Page: 6
Chipping Wycombe - Cowdens Row
all born in County
Ann Plumridge 50
Mary Plumridge 35
Jonathan Plumridge 3
Mary Plumridge 1
Charles Goodwin 11 (cant read 'occupation - overwritten)
Eliza Martin 25
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Many thanks to Past Master and HarryW.
The son, Charles George Goodwin was shown in the 1841 census in Chipping Wycombe as "Ind" (over writing what I believe to be "Chairmaker") and I've assumed that to be shorthand for "Indentured" and he was lodging with the Plumridge family. In the 1851 census in Downley, West Wycombe he is lodging with another family but is now described as a "Chairmaker". His future wife, Emma Ridgley, is also in Downley and they married the following year.
One year later, Charles George and Emma uplifted home and family to Newcastle-on-Tyne where he remained, working as a chair maker, until his death in 1913. Emma died three weeks after Charles and they share a grave.
Is Windsor Castle listed in the 1851 census with the staff - rather in the manner of a Union Workhouse where the staff and inmates are all included under the same header in the census pages? Just a shot in the dark!
Thanks again
Jack
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I did have a look at all GOODW* names in the areas involved - no sign of a relevant one.
Expect Windsor Castle* is there, but all names will be enumerated - so the searches should have found him - John / George whichever). Some sort of mistranscription is of course possible....
IND (I wondered if twas that, but unsure) on the 1841 usually means 'of Independant Means' ......
*Turns out to be a unique District in the 1851 census, part of PIECE #1695 - 3 pages on individuals resident there.
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I doubt he would be of independent means as he was only 11 years old in 1841, which made me guess he was INDentured.
So, do I take it John George Goodwin wasn't among those in the three page Windsor Castle section of the 1851 census?
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The Instructions to Enumerators in the 1841 included a standard list of occupations.
You can google up this information.
Indentured wasnt one of them - (Ap (Apprentice) was tho) .... and your lad could have been considered of Independant means if someone was paying his keep.
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You learn something new every day.
Thanks for that and I've downloaded the Instructions to Enumerators for future guidance. I'll also alter my family tree records.
My wife and I started our research on respective families only a few months ago and so guidance is greatly appreciated.
Jack
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Just another thought - might he have been a servant at Eton College?
Nell
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Nell
That's something I've already done. I wrote to Eton College and had a nice reply from the College Archivist. It appears they would possibly have records of some names of servants who would have looked after the King's Scholars but no dates etc. Any other servants in the boarding houses or the masters' private residences would not have been recorded. Pity, but there you are.
Thanks
Jack
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Presumably, they would also have appeared on the Bucks census?
If he's living on independent means with another family at the age of 11, and yet his father appears to still be alive when he marries in 1852, there must be a reason that the child has been 'left behind'. Did you ever find any siblings for Charles?
As father is a servant and you can't find him on the 1851 census, could he and his wife have been travelling with his employer - possibly overseas?
Jack, I can't remember from your other thread on this subject if you'd had any luck finding George/John George and Rebecca on any later censuses - or indeed if you'd looked for a death for either or both of them?
And another thought - would it be worth researching a possible family link between George Goodwin and the Plumridge family who he is staying with in 1841? It's so hard to tell from the 1841 census because of the lack of relationships, but it's just possible that Ann Plumridge (50) could be a sister of (John) George's? :-\ :-\
Jill
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Hi Jill
We meet again. As I'm having no success I'm inclined to believe that my man John George Goodwin and his wife Rebecca did indeed, live abroad and they came back to Eton for their son's baptism in 1830 and then John George at least, returned for his son's wedding in 1852. I mentioned this belief on the Bucks. page as you remember.
To sum up: I've found the father and mother once - on the baptism cert. and then the father again on the marriage cert. But no mention at all of either father or mother in any census other than a John and Rebecca Goodwin and family on the 1841 census at Sutton, this Sutton being in Gloucestershire. They are there again in 1861 but no mention in 1851. But the description for John is Ag. Lab. not servant.
I've found no siblings for Charles and no record of the deaths of the parents. Your suggestion of a link to the Plumridge family is something else to check and I'll start doing that. I seem to remember the name Plumridge in connection with a chair making family that existed in the Downley area of Bucks at that time and of course, Charles George became a chair maker. Thanks.
This is certainly keeping me off the streets.
Jack
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Hello Jack
I feel I have to come in on this one as there is some confusion about whether John or John George GOODWIN was alive in 1852 when his son was married. The marriage entry at Farnham Royal, Bucks, reads thus:
13 Jan 1852 Charles George GOODWIN, of full age, bachelor, chairmaker of Salt Hill, son of John George GOODWIN, servant
Emma (X) RIDGLEY, of full age, spinster of Salt Hill, dau of John RIDGLEY, sawyer
Witnessed by: George LESTER and Elizabeth JARVIS
Note that, although John George is given as the groom's father, he is NOT a witness. Also not every clerk/incumbent noted in the entry that the father of one or both of the parties was deceased.
I am in agreement with Jill about a possible connection between Charles George GOODWIN and the PLUMRIDGE family. There was a GOODWIN family (John GOODWIN and Ann) baptising children at High Wycombe between 1802 and 1815, including a son John in 1806.
Finally, servant and agricultural labourer could be the same thing as one could be a servant in husbandry.
Orpheus
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There is a Rebecca Plumridge baptised in W Wycombe 15 Nov 1795 d/o William & Hannah and an Ann baptised to the same couple 18 Jan 1789.
Ann would be the right age to be the Ann Plumridge from the 1841 census. Could her sister Rebecca be the one who married (John) George Goodwin. This would rely on Ann remaining unmarried. Can anyone find her on the 1851 census to see if - by any strange chance - she was !!
I can't find a marriage for a Rebecca Plumridge!!! Scream!!! ::)
Jill
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Hello Orpheus
Regarding your point querying John George Goodwin being alive in 1852 at his son's wedding. You might well be correct as, just to perhaps prove the point, I checked on John Ridgley, Emma's father. He was there with his wife Hannah and family in the 1841 census, but going to the 1851 census he is missing and Hannah is a widow and head of the family. So this might perhaps confirm that the clerk/incumbent did not always state the father was deceased.
Now the interesting part - In the 1851 census there is the following entry for Farnham Royal (i.e. where Charles and Emma were married):
Salt Hill
Henry Williamson Head 47 Gardener born Farnham Royal
Rebecca Williamson 52 born Stokenchurch, Oxon.
William Williamson Son 12 born Farnham Royal
Ann Plumridge Lodger 60 (?) Lace maker born Finges (?)
So perhaps this is the Ann Plumridge Jill mentions? Another interesting fact is that the address Salt Hill is the very same as the "Residence at the time of marriage" shown on the wedding certificate for Charles and Emma in Jan. 1852 which perhaps might suggest they stayed there to gain residency before the marriage.
I'd better stop before I take over the whole of this topic.
Many thanks
Jack
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Jack, that's interesting.
Does the 1851 census say whether the Ann Plumridge age 60 is married or unmarried - or widowed?
Jill
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Now don't get too excited, as there are lots of people listed on the page, but -
Marriages in Uxbridge Reg District Sep Quarter 1845 ref: 3 358
amongst the 8 (a couple are duplicated) names listed are
Rebecca Goodwin
Henry Williamson.
There's about 6 miles between Uxbridge and Farnham Royal.
I suppose - for people with a sub with Ancestry - there may be a way of trying to match up the other 6 names on the 1851 census, to eliminate them (as marrying each other!). the other 6 names are:
Charles Baynes
William Fletcher
Marti(?n) Watts
Mary Ann Hazel(l)
Fanny Parrot(t)
Sarah Prickett.
If this is the right couple, John George must have died pre 1845.
Jill
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Jill
That's quite amazing and we seem to be getting somewhere after all.
Sorry, but I omitted to say that in the 1851 census extract I mentioned earlier, Ann Plumridge - Lodger is marked under the Condition heading 'U' which I assume to mean unmarried. Her age is, I'm pretty sure, 60 although the last digit is looped in the handwritten 0.
So it would apear that John George Goodwin died quite early on and Rebecca remarried. I think the pieces of the jig-saw are coming together. Everyone has been such a help and it's greatly appreciated.
Jack
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Hi Jack,
It does seem to be coming together - I'll be happier if someone can account for those other people on the same marriage page in Uxbridge, but perhaps I'm being overly cautious! :-\
Now that you've confirmed the Ann Plumridge was unmarried - it also looks as though she was Rebecca's sister, which would explain why Charles was living with her in 1841. What it doesn't explain is why we can't find a marriage between a Rebecca Plumridge and John/George Goodwin and can't find Rebecca (+ possibly her husband if still alive) on the 1841 census. Did you try other counties or just Bucks? I don't have a sub with Ancestry so my hands are tied as far as the censuses go.
With us not being sure whether father's name was John or George, it's very hard to identify a death, but I did come across this one.
Eton Reg District June Quarter 1844 John Goodwin Ref. 6 251
I'll leave it up to you whether you think it worth taking a punt and sending for the certificate. Do you know about the reference checking service they offer? You can put in a detail (e.g. occupation has to be 'servant') and if the certificate doesn't match that reference, they'll only charge you £3 instead of the £7 for the actual certificate.
Another route you could take would be to ask Bucks FHS for a name search - they do them from databases covering baptisms, marriages & burials and they're very reasonable. That's assuming the relevant missing events took place in Bucks of course.
Jill
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Jack (and Jill)
I was just about to post the death of John GOODWIN in June Qtr 1844 but Jill beat me to it.
My advice would be to go for the Bucks FHS search before applying for the death certificate as this should find burials in both Eton (where Charles George was baptised) and Farnham Royal (where he later married). Also, there is still the little problem of John (George) and Rebecca's residence in 1841.
Orpheus
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I've just realised - I have the PRs for both Fingest and Stokenchurch on CD, courtesy of Oxfordshire FHS. (It's been a busy day and it's only just registered in the brain!).
I've found Ann Plumridge's baptism in Fingest:
Nov 20 1791 daughter of Charles & Jane.
And lo! In Stokenchurch:
Aug 4 1799 Rebecca, d/o Charles & Jane.
So she named her son after her father!
I then pushed my luck and looked for Rebecca's marriage in Stokenchurch, but it's not there.
I'll keep looking!
Jill
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Orpheus
I can't find a Rebecca Goodwin in the 1841 census that fits in with the facts as we know them. I have a John and Rebecca Goodwin in Sutton, Gloucestershire in 1841 but they are still there in the 1861 census which shows they are not our people.
I recently asked and paid, for the Bucks FHS to search their parish records database and although the baptism of John Goodwin, son of John and Ann Goodwin showed up, the earliest burial they show is 1853 and there are only three Goodwin marriages listed, the earliest being 1834 and none for our two.
Thanks for you continued interest.
Jack
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Hi Jill
My reply to Orpheus answers some of your queries and I think I will ask Bucks CC for the death cert. I'll keep you informed.
I feel I can certainly start adding the details we now have to my family tree but it would be nice to know where Rebecca and John George were in 1841. However, with help like yours and from everyone else who has helped so far, I'm sure it will turn up.
Jack
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Probably taking a wrong turn here, but can either of you look up a Rebecca Plumridge on the 1841 census in Eton - age is correct (40). I found her on the free search on Find My Past but don't have any credits. I suppose it's possible they never married? :-\
Jill
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1841 Colnbrook, Horton
Joseph Plumridge, 67, carpenter, N
Martha " , 64, Y
Rebecca " , 40, Y
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A good try Allisont but I think the person Jill found is living in Horton with parents (?) Joseph and Martha PLUMRIDGE who are aged in their sixties.
Orpheus
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Realised after and have changed it!
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There was a GOODWIN family (John GOODWIN and Ann) baptising children at High Wycombe between 1802 and 1815, including a son John in 1806.
Upon death of [John] George GOODWIN, if born High Wycombe, it is likely his widow Rebecca would have been returned to his parish of settlement. It just so happens there is a 'Rebacca' GOODWIN, F.S. with recorded age 40 at Little Marlow, Bucks, in 1841 [Sub-district High Wycombe] Not born in County.
Has any research been undertaken to establish if Charles George was placed an apprentice by Wycombe Union?
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hello Orpheus
You mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that a Goodwin family - John and Ann - were baptising children in the Wycombe area between 1802 and 1815 including a son John in 1806. Do you happen to have details of John's siblings and any info on the parents?
Jack
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dee-jay
I have a copyof the relevant page with the Little Marlow entry you mention. What do others think - any connection?
Strangley, there is an entry for a John Goodwin - gardener, in the 1851 census at Westhorpe House, Little Marlow. He was born at Easton, Suffolk and is obviously not the John Goodwin under discussion.
Jack
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Jill
Regarding your discovery of the children of Charles and Jane Plumridge - Ann and Rebecca - baptisms on the Oxford FHS CD.
I've picked up the following info from the FamilySearch web site:
William and Hannah (nee Childs) Plumridge - two children
Ann Plumridge christening 18 Jan 1789 West Wycombe, Bucks.
Rebecca Plumridge christening 15 Nov 1795 West Wycombe, Bucks.
It seems the names run in the family but the Charles and Jane's twosome seem to be the ones we want as on the census of Rebecca Williamson, it's mentioned she's from Stokenchurch which confirms the Oxford FHS CD details. Is - or was, Fingest and Stokenchurch in Oxfordshire and not Bucks.?
Jack
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Hi Jack,
I'll probably get this wrong, but I think Fingest was in Bucks but is now in Oxon and Stokenchurch was in Oxon and is now in Bucks. it's very confusing. I just wish these bloomin politicians would stop moving county boundaries whenever it suits them - usually when they want to manipulate the votes in a particular constituency, no doubt!!
Did you say you were going to send for that death cert in Eton, hopefully the right John Goodwin? In an ideal world, the person registering the death will be Rebecca!!
It might be a good idea to send for that 1845 marriage cert of Rebecca and Henry Williamson in the hope that a) it's the right couple from all those names on the same page [use the referencing service] and b) to see what she gives as her maiden name. Again, ideal world, she'll be "late Goodwin, formerly Plumridge".
You never know, sometimes things do just come together!!
I'm glad you found that other Rebecca Plumridge from W Wycombe, as I found a marriage in W Wycombe on the IGI for a Rebecca Plumridge and Daniel Blick in 1827 and feared the worse. ::)
Jill
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Jill
Rebecca Williamson is in the 1861 census aged 61, living in Upton, Slough, and a Charwoman. Her birth place is given as Cadmore End which I see is only a few miles down the M40 from Stokenchurch which was listed as her birthplace on the 1851 census. Her Henry Williamson is still there as a gardener.
They are still in Slough in 1871 but I can't find either in the 1881 census.
I'll probably make tracks to get both the certificates you mention early next week.
Jack
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I found Henry Williamson's death:
Sep Q 1878 age 73 Eton 3a 315
and then struggled to find Rebecca's. Then I remembered that you said son Charles had moved to Newcastle, so I think this might be Rebecca's death:
Rebecca Williamson Mar Q 1880 age 80 Newcastle 10b 14.
Jill
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Hello Jack
You asked me for the High Wycombe GOODWINs so here they are:
BAPTISMS 1775-1820
7 Jun 1802 Elizabeth d John and Ann
12 Aug 1803 Hannah d John and Ann
23 Feb 1806 John s John and Ann
18 Apr 1808 Edmund s John and Ann
12 Apr 1811 Ann d John and Ann
11 Apr 1814 James s John and Ann
29 Nov 1816 William s John and Ann
The following marriage is from the IGI:
13 Apr 1802 John GOODWIN and Ann GIRST
I'm afraid I don't have any burial records so can't say whether any of the children died young.
Orpheus
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Hello again Jack
I forgot to mention in my previous post that John's occupation of carpenter was given in the baptisms of James and William. I know this family look promising but I do have some reservations about them - especially after finding Rebecca GOODWIN in Little Marlow in 1841. If she is the right person, why wasn't her husband with her if he didn't die until 1844? I know that lots of men were away from home in the 1841 census as this was taken in June at the time of the hay harvest (this being the reason subsequent census were taken in late March/early April), but it would be unusual for a married woman to be working in a live-in position. A widow might do this, leaving the child in the care of a relative.
I think we can be fairly certain that Rebecca's maiden name was PLUMRIDGE but we still don't know whether her husband was named John or George - or even John George. As well as the High Wycombe family there were also GOODWINs in the parish of Datchet which is adjacent to Eton where Charles George was baptised. This family used the christian name George. Datchet is also close to the borders of Berkshire, Surrey and Middlesex and a marriage could have taken place in any of these counties - as well as London.
I've said my piece so on to Fingest and Stokenchurch. Fingest, although close to the border with Oxfordshire, has always been in Bucks and still is. Stokenchurch was in Oxfordshire until 1896 when it was transferred to Bucks. It was a chapelry of Aston Rowant, Oxfordshire until 1844 although it did have its own registers from 1707. Cadmore End is a relatively new parish. It was created in 1852 from parts of Fingest, Stokenchurch and Lewknor (the Uphill part also known as Ackhampstead).
Finally, Dee-jay asked if anyone had tried the Wycombe Union to see if Charles George had been apprenticed by them. Sadly very few records have survived from this Union. There is a register of baptisms commencing in 1853 (much too late), and minute books 1836-39, 1854-56, 1881-87 and 1903-30. Although apprenticeships are sometimes recorded in the Minute Books those that survive from this Union are either too early or too late to be of use.
Orpheus
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Jill
Thanks for that. It completes the picture - almost. She probably lived with Charles and Emma and family in Newcastle.
Incidentally, Charles and Emma had 12 children, 7 of whom died. One was called George and another Ann. Family connections, of course, but no Rebecca unless she was one who did not survive.
Jack
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Sorry for the duplication
Jack
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Jack,
Let us know if you learn anything more from the certificates, won't you?
I think I told you - at the very start of this topic - that I have Godwin/Goodwins from Eton in my tree, but much earlier than your John George. Mine "start" with Elizabeth Godwin baptised in Eton in 1701 and her father Richard was a gardener at the College.
It would be interesting to know if there's any connection. I've totally lost it at the moment - have you got John George's birth/baptism or is that one you're still looking for?
Jill
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Orpheus
Thanks for the West Wycombe Goodwins. I have a copy of the Little Marlow 1841 census and saw the entry but this is a "Rebbaca" Goodwin. Of course perhaps the enumerator couldn't spell and wrote it down as he heard it but it certainly adds to the mystery.
I've been unable to find a George Goodwin in 1841 Datchet although I can find a John Goodwin with a family, although no Rebecca. There's even a George Goodwin aged 45 followed by a Rebecca aged 50 in the 1841 Wainfleet All Saints, Lincolnshire entry. Obviously not the ones we're looking for.
I believe John George Goodwin was likely to have been known as "George". My reasoning is that the baptism certificate for his son Charles shows him as George, father. However, the wedding certificate for Charles lists him as "John George". At that time George was dead but obviously whoever was asked the father's name formally gave his full name.
Jack
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Hi Jill
I will certainly keep everyone informed as soon as I have the certificates.
Bucks. FHS did a search for me as I mentioned, and under baptisms they show John, son of John and Ann Goodwin 23 Feb 1806 West Wycombe, All Saints. No other details given. Orpheus has confirmed the date as you can see on this thread.
For what it's worth I discovered another Goodwin family who have their roots in Buckinghamshire. The 1841, 1851 & 1861 census for Wellow, Nottinghamshire have several separate Goodwin families, all from High Wycombe and all chair makers so possibly they are an enlarged family. It would be interesting to investigate if any of the male members of the families are related to John Goodwin as they mirror some of the names that Orpheus has listed - e.g. William.
Jack
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The IGI also has a John Godwin baptised in Colnbrook, Bucks 10 March 1797 son of Edward & Mary. Colnbrook is only a couple of miles from Eton.
If that 1844 Eton death cert is correct it will hopefully give his age at death and help you home in on his birth year - and of course will also mean that he must be on the 1841 census somewhere!
Jill
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Jack
The GOODWINs I listed are from High Wycombe - not West Wycombe - and it seems certain that they are the persons who appear in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census at Wellow, Nottinghamshire. It looks like the whole family moved, perhaps including Mum and Dad too. So it looks like we can rule out Rebecca PLUMRIDGE marrying John of High Wycombe, born 1806, as he is with his wife Elizabeth in Wellow.
Orpheus
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Orpheus
Sorry, High Wycombe of course, my error. So now we start looking again for John George Goodwin. I'll order the certificates and, hopefully, find out more details.
I'll let eveyone know as soon as I have them.
Jack
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I've just ordered the certificates for
John George Goodwin - death 1844
Henry Williamson & Rebecca Goodwin - marriage 1845
Rebecca Williamson - death 1880.
They will be despatched 20 July. Will await with bated breath.
Jack
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I received two of the three certificates I ordered, in today's post.
Jill, here is confirmation of Rebecca and Henry Williamson's marriage:
No. 486 - Aug. 31st. 1845 Hillingden, Middlesex.
Henry Williamson Full age Widower Gardener Res. at time of marriage Hillingden Father's name - Edward Williamson - Labourer.
Rebecca Goodwin Full age Widow Res. at time of marriage - Hillingden. Father's name - Charles Plumridge (dead) - Gentleman's servant.
Married in the Parish Church after banns signed William ?? curator.
Signed Henry Williamson X his mark
Rebecca Goodwin X her mark In the presence of Francis Weeden; Daniel ??
GRO ref: 1845 Sep. Quarter Vol. 03 Page 358.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The other certificate related to Rebecca's death:
Year 1880 March quarter Vol 10b p.14 - 31 January 1880
4 Douglass Terrace, Newcastle-on-Tyne Rebecca Williamson Female 80 years Widow of Henry Williamson Gardener Bronchitis - senile 2 months Certified by A.W. Newton Surgeon Charles Goodwin - son present at death Reg. Second February 1880 Wm S. Findley Registrar.
I'll post details of the third certificate as soon as it arrives.
Jack
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That's great. Don't you just love it when a plan comes together? Interesting that Rebecca's father was also a gentleman's servant - it poses the question, did her father work with John George's father and that's perhaps how they met?
Hopefully the death cert for John George Goodwin will make it a hat trick!
It still leaves his baptism to find as well as his marriage to Rebecca though. ::) And, of course, will also mean that he should be on the 1841 census - somewhere!
Jill
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most impressive ! 8)
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Jill
Regarding your point about Rebecca's father being a gentleman's servant and the possibilty that she and John George met through that connection. I can't remember if I mentioned it on this thread but I have John George & Rebecca's son, Charles, on the 1911 census in Newcastle and under Birthplace it states he was born at "Eton Colledge" (sic) Buckinghamshire. Now this was written by the enumerator who might have thought anything described as "Eton" meant Eton College. BUT, I suppose it could be that John George was indeed a servant at the college and that Charles was born there. I have mentioned that I wrote to the archivist at Eton College but they have no records which he could check with any certainty.
I wondered if anyone has the 1841 census for Buckinghamshire which might show those people living in Eton College on the night the census was taken?
Jack
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Eton College appears to be Schedule 1557 on Find My Past, but I've no credits left.
Can anyone with an Ancestry sub find it please?
Jill
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I searched but couldn't find them at Eton College or nearby cottages. I fear that as Charles appears to have been an only child, his father may have died pre-1837.
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Let's hang on a little until I receive the death certificate for the John George Goodwin I've sent for. It could arrive in the post tomorrow (Monday) and assuming it's for the correct man, it will give his birth date.
Jack
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If you mentioned John George specifically, it could hold up the process as the 1844 reference is in the name of John GOODWIN [no mention of George].
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I received an email from the GRO today saying that they have issued me a refund as the occupation of the John Goodwin I referred to was not a servant and so they have not issued a death certificate.
I'm in two minds whether or not to reapply for the John Goodwin died June Q. 1844 certificate on the chance it could be the man we're all looking for. Any opinions on this would be gratefully received.
I would like to thank everyone who has taken part in this thread. I certainly appreciate all the help and suggestions. At the beginning of July, I had Rebecca Goodwin shown on one certificate and the name of George, then John George, shown on two and that was it. Now I have just about everything on Rebecca except her marriage to J.G. and their whereabouts in 1841. But J.G. is proving a difficult find. I'll still keep excercising those "little grey cells" though.
Jack
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How disappointing! Still, I suppose 2 out of 3 is pretty good going.
I fear Dee-jay was right and it looks as though John Goodwin died pre 1837, especially probable as Charles appears to have been an only child. As Rebecca would have been about 30 when she had Charles, it's also possible that John was quite a bit older.
I remember that someone found a Rebecca Goodwin in the 1841 census in Little Marlow - sorry, have just read through the thread and can't find it! :-[ Do we have the exact details? is this your Rebecca, perhaps fallen on hard times that she had to 'farm out' her son to the family?
Another question that you may have already answered (it's my age!) - did your search requests to Bucks FHS include a burial/death for John (George) Goodwin, and, if so, was it a blanket search for all Goodwins in a specified date range, or was it a specific search for a John George Goodwin?
I've looked at the Gale newspaper site but found nothing relevant; I've had another look at the Bucks Poor Law records CD and even at the Berks Poor Law Records CD - nothing.
Running out of ideas... don't suppose he might have left a will?
Jill
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Running out of ideas... don't suppose he might have left a will?
Jill
Good heavens, I'm quoting myself now!! ::)
That set me off, and I looked on
nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline
to see if I could find a will. And I did! However, I don't want to spend your money for you, so you'll have to decide if the risk is worth £3.50 but there is a will for a John Godwin servant of Richmond Park, Surrey 5 Oct 1833. The ref. is PROB11/1822. Richmond isn't that far from Eton (?15 miles).
I don't know if you've used the site before, but you can pay online and download the will almost straight away - if it's the right one (please don't shoot me if it isn't) don't forget to download it into your files as it will only be available for you to view for a limited time (used to be about 50 days or so).
Let us know what you decide, won't you?
Jill
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Hi Jill
Thanks for that.
I found the reference and downloaded and saved the will, which was part of a set of other wills on about three pages. There is no mention of any of the people we know and, despite difficulty reading the script, it seems that John Godwin servant to family named Bishop of Richmond Park, was, at that time, in poor health and was leaving £20.00 to his parents - after debts and funeral expenses were paid. A month or so later, he had obviously passed away and probate was granted to his father Stephen.
So I doubt if this man was our man but it was an interesting find.
Jack
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Sorry about that - I thought we might be on to something there. :(
Jill
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I'm in two minds whether or not to reapply for the John Goodwin died June Q. 1844 certificate on the chance it could be the man we're all looking for. Any opinions on this would be gratefully received.
I've two suggestions:
(1) Instigate searches for the whereabouts of the burial of John GOODWIN 1844 and any GOODWIN burials in Eton parish/district from, say, 1829.
(2) Check out the names of the Buckinghamshire miscreants in the 1830 'Swing' riots. [I've twice deleted this suggestion from my previous feeds into this thread but, what the heck, you've nothing to lose ....] ::)
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Upon death of [John] George GOODWIN, if born High Wycombe, it is likely his widow Rebecca would have been returned to his parish of settlement. It just so happens there is a Rebacca GOODWIN, F.S. with recorded age 40 at Little Marlow, Bucks, in 1841 [Sub-district High Wycombe] Not born in County.
Correction: This lady was recorded Rebbaca GOODWIN and the only likely variant I encountered in 1841 Census in the likely age range and locality.
Update: I checked on the marriage witness Francis WEEDEN and he appears to have been the Sexton to Hillingdon Church. I wondered if there was any particular reason that drew the groom to Hillingdon: 1841 [Widower] Henry WILLIAMSON, in Farnham Royal with children in his father Edward's household. However, although their marriage was after banns, I could not find any trace of a likely Rebecca in Hillingdon district in 1841.
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I've checked in my copy of "Buckinghamshire Machine Breakers - The Story of the 1830 Riots" by Jill Chambers and there are no GOODWINs listed.
Perhaps the NBI could identify the 1844 death. My suspicion would be the parish of Datchet where there is a GOODWIN family.
Orpheus
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Perhaps the NBI could identify the 1844 death. My suspicion would be the parish of Datchet where there is a GOODWIN family.
I reckon Orpheus has just saved Jack £7. ;D Mary Ann of Datchet is shown as a widowed Fundholder/Landed Proprietor with son Ralph in 1851. In 1841 Head of household was John GOODWIN, Farmer.
So that appears to bring us back to the NBI for GOODWIN burials of George/John c1829-1844 taking into consideration that he could have died away from home.
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Thanks for the checkups.
I don't have the set of CD's for the NBI and if anyone has and could do a check, I'd be more than grateful.
Jack
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Jack,
When you were in contact with Eton College, was any mention made of the location of College Chapel registers, in particular Marriages and Burials?
In the recesses of my brain I seem to recall that certain privileges were extended to servants of some of the ancient colleges. In the case of Eton, it could be advantageous to ascertain if there are registers other than those of the Parish Church which are deposited at Aylesbury. The College Chapel appears to have 'doubled' as the Parish Church for a slice of the 19th Century but the registers listed on the Bucks FHS site do not include any mention of those of the College Chapel.
See also the 'St John the Evangelist Eton' thread on the Buckinghamshire forum of this website: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=289841.0
An enquiry there might produce an early result for an NBI search. ;D
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dee-jay
The reply I had from the Eton College archivist was as follows:
"We have no information on the servants who worked in the boarding houses or in the masters private residences. The names of the very few staff who looked after the King's Scholars (a minority in the school) can be found in the accounts but we would have no information beyond the years they were paid i.e. nothing on dates or residence".
Thanks for the various links you've given me and I'll add a comment to the thread on St. John The Evangelist, Eton.
Jack
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Cannie Lad
Just by way of a change from the elusive GOODWINs I have the marriage of Rebecca PLUMRIDGE's parents:
17 Jan 1791 Charles PLUMRIDGE and Jane STEVENS at Lewknor, Oxfordshire
Orpheus
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Orpheus
Many thanks for that and it helps extend the Plumridge connection a little further. I see that Lewknor is very close to where Rebecca Plumridge was born in Stokenchurch.
But the Goodwin mystery continues!
Jack
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I've just checked in the Pallot's Marriage Index 1780-1837 on Ancestry (UK) and found the following entry:
Rebecca Brown & George Goodwin. Christchurch, Newgate, London. 1829. The original image gives no further information other than the two names.
Could Rebecca Plumridge have been previously married to a Mr. Brown before marrying John George Goodwin in 1829? The date is very close to the baptism of Charles George Goodwin in Eton on 21 April 1830.
Jack