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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Gillian Mauchan on Tuesday 07 July 09 12:56 BST (UK)
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:-\ I am trying to find out when my Gr Grandfather Andrew McCurdy Gowans arrived in St John's. It must have been some time between 1894 and 1900. His youngest child was born in Greenock Scotland in 1894. I have found newspaper and directory records that indicate the family lived at 35 Springdale st where the daughter Prudence married a Harold Bishop in 1904. Andrew died in Canada on 18/3/1916 and his wife must have returned to Scotland sometime afterwards she died there in 1931 (Margaret Gowans nee Martin )
The children that appeared to have gone with them to Canada were Andrew who married an Ethel Florence and died in Boston, Prudence, Archibald, Mary, Thomas and Margaret my Gr grandfather Andrew remained in Greenock.
Cant find any record on findmypast or Ancestry
Any ideas?
Gillian
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Blimey...my Dad lived at No. 62 Springdale Street :o :o :o..I have a couple of photos taken there when I visited ten years ago...what a small world...
They were living in Hamilton Street by 1935...but you probably know that already!
And Here he is in 1904
http://ngb.chebucto.org/M1904/04-sjc-g.shtml
Carol
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Thanks I found that , I have just checked my database and it looks as though Andrew snr must have been in St John's on hi own in 1901 as his wife and children are still at Greenock on the 1901 census. So they must have folled between 1901 and 1904. It was Thomas who was living in Hamilton St in 1935.
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Haven't found them on passenger lists as yet but there is a public family tree on ancestry with George Wilkie Gowans, son of Andrew and Ethel, born 1907 Harbour Grace and died 1999 Mississippi. There is also a private family tree with George born 1908 Newfoundland on it.
Debbie
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Thanks for looking - the Private tree is probably mine and I think I copied some of the details from that public tree
Have found some of the older children of this couple in South Africa
Cheers
Gillian
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Newfoundland didn't join Canada until 1949 so you won't find information from the early 1900s in the usual Canadian resources (ie Canadian passenger lists or census).
Here is a link to the Newfoundland & Labrador resource thread in the Canada Resources forum:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,219420.0.html
Here's a link to the Newfoundland & Labrador GenWeb site which might give you some ideas on where to search as well:
http://nl.canadagenweb.org/
When I searched that site I did find a transcription of a newspaper article dated 28 Jun 1904 regarding the marriage of Prudence Gowans to Harold Bishop with Maggie Gowans was a bridesmaid. Here's a link (it's about halfway down the page):
http://nl.canadagenweb.org/freepress1904.htm
There was also a mention in another transcription dated 27 Jun 1937 to a Martha Gowans, 16, daughter of a Thomas Gowans drowing. Here's the link:
http://nl.canadagenweb.org/dailynews_1937.htm
There were a few other references to Andrew as well on the main site. I didn't search the regional pages.
Jacquie
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Hi Gillian,
I don't know if you've tried this one but it's worth a look:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-130-e.html#c
Here is a photo of Springdale Street, St. John's Nfld.
Carol
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Carol
Thanks for the photo - I hadn't found that! Will add it to my growing family collection!
Jaquie,
Thanks for the links - I had found those they were quite useful - my family seem to be very successful at hiding their shipping records. I think I have found Margaret's return to Scotland in 1919 on ancestry.com but no sign of their sailing to NF. My father and his family went to South Africa in the 1930's and I haven't found those records either! And my Gr Grandparents on my Mom's side moved from Aus to SA in 1890's and again no hope of finding the recrds
Still I live in Hope!
Gillian
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Hi Gillian...You wouldn't...It's one in my collection..I took that photo when I went there for family research in 1999...If you want the larger one for printing you are welcome if you want to P.m me your email address.
This is the site I use and there are photos here too..I have found Craig Peterman to be very helpful:
http://ngb.chebucto.org/SJWest/index-sjw.shtml
Good Luck
Carol
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Gillian...the photo was taken looking towards Water Street and the docks...here is an old postcard of Water Street...the oldest street in North America 8)
Carol
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:D Carol, Thanks those are great! I will certainly use them to illustrate my modest family history - I am doing it just for my immediate family- we are a bit of a nomadic breed it looks like most of the Gowan's passed through St John;s and moved on. Strangely my Grandmother did not appear to make contact with her cousin's in South Africa after she emigrated there - or not that my father made known!
Will keep searching - might have to temporarily upgrade my Ancestry membership to do a bit of North American research!
Thanks again
Gillian
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Hello,
This is the first time I've seen new info about my great grandfather. Thomas Crawford Gowans (born 1893 in Scotland) was my GGrandfather. I now see where he got some of his children's names. He had two sons: Thomas and Andrew and four daughters: Margaret (my grandmother who died of TB in 1942), Martha, Elizabeth and Rita. Both Bet and Rita are still living but are not in great health. Rita lives in Montreal and Bet lives in St. John's NL. Both sons (Tommy and Andrew) are now dead and lived in the States. Neither of them had children. All of Bet's children live in NL. She has 3 sons and 2 daughters.
So are you saying the Andrew Gowans who died in 1916 was Thomas Gowans father? And that they were from Greenock, Scotland? Tom Gowans is buried in St. John's, NL. Although he lived for years in Montreal and his wife, my GGrandmother, is buried in Cote de Neige cemetery.
If you have other info such as who was Thomas's oldest sibling or their birth order, I'd really appreciate it. I know very little about his life as a child. And until today I knew nothing of his aprents. I know Thomas served in WW1 with the Royal Newfoundland Regiment. We have some photos of him in uniform.
Thanks
for any help.
Regards
Valerie
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Hi Valerie...Don't know if this Thomas is yours on the 1935 :
http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1935/35-st-johns-pgs-600-614-sjw.shtml
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Yes that's him. His daughter Margaret was my grandmother (although she died at 22). I just don't have any info about him before he was an adult. When I read that earlier thread I realized this might be his parents and siblings. I knew he had a least one brother and one sister and the fact that he came from Scotland, he was in the Army during WWI etc. My father remembers him quite well as does my father's younger brother who lived with his grandparents in Montreal.
I didn't know where in Scotland he was from (perhaps it is Greenock), who his parents were etc. In my notes it says he had a sister Dorothy but there is no Dorothy in the list of children of Andrew and Margaret Gowans. If you have any info I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
Valerie
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actually the son Andrew Gowans Jr. died 27 Jun 1913 Lakeville, Massachusetts...but he was buried in Boston
Image with cause of death etc. can be found here:
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#givenName=andrew&searchType=close&p=recordResults&collection=fs%3A1463156&surname=gowans&deathYear=1913
Marriage same year Aug. 26 1913 Cyril FARNHAM and Miss Mary GOWANS.
There was also a John b. 1872 and a David b. 1873 you hadn't mentioned
Welcome to rootschat Valerie!
Not often we find a great resource like this, his stint in ww1, injuries, return to NL & promotion in ranks
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08ss/ Lieutenant Owen William Steele of the Newfoundland Regiment: diary and letters
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Hi Valerie...Here is some info on the Newfoundland Regiment:
http://ngb.chebucto.org/NFREG/index1.shtml
Carol
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wills: Prudence B Bishop 1960 / & not sure if this is right Harold - Harold Ashley Bishop 1933
http://ngb.chebucto.org/Wills/nfwillsb.shtml
A Martha Gowans, but daughter of whom on the census
http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1921/21-Pg-723-742-supp-2-sjw.shtml
Cyryl & Mary with daughters 1921 http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1921/21-hearts-content-1-tb.shtml
and 1945 http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1945/45-hearts-cont-tb-s.shtml
a photo of Mary with him same year of his death http://ngb.chebucto.org/Stonepics/stonepics-ef.shtml
wills : Cyril Farnham 1959 http://ngb.chebucto.org/Wills/nfwillsf.shtml
A Gowans previous to your family coming to Newfoundland http://ngb.chebucto.org/H1864/64-st-johns-f-g.shtml
and a stray Archibald from Scotland...see now that he is yours http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1921/803027-sjw.shtml
There is a Gowans on the list of seafarers...Wonder if the family came as passengers on a merchant vessel
but its a $ cd http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/names/names_g5.php
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Wow J.J. this is great stuff. My GGrandfather must have been quite a bit younger than his brothers. He died in 1977 and he was about 84 then. Where did you find all this info?
Thanks so much.
valerie
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Hi J.J.
Just saw your next treasure trove of info. Thanks again. I can't wait to check out all these threads.
BTW Martha Gowans was my grandmother's younger sister. I've always found it odd that she's listed on a street her family did live on when she was an infant in the 1921 census and she's listed with a lot of other babies. Almost seems like it would be a hospital or orphanage yet my parents (who have lived in St. John's all their lives know of no such thing there. Granted it could have been a home of some sort but where is her family?). In the 1921 census I can't find the Gowans family and I've tried every variant spelling I can think. Someone stated earlier that Martha drowned and it probably says that in the death announcement but my father said they were swimming at Ocean Pond and she suffered a brain aneuryism. Whether from that or drowning, she died that day at 16.
Cheers
Valerie
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::)
Well taken me a while to get back to this post.
The Thomas who was the son of Andrew and Margret Gowans was born in Greenock on 8th Oct 1891
I have surmised from the Canadian web site mentioned that he married an Elizabeth? and had children Thomas, Margaret, Elizabeth, Rita and Andrew. I stopped there on this line.
I am descended from his older brother John Gowans who remained in Scotland. His father Andrew died in in St John's and his mother returned to Scotland and died there later. She lived near another daughter Martha Orr Gowans who had returned to Scotland and Married an Arthur Frame
If this is the same family I am happy to share the information I have gathered for them - Unfortunately I haven't got further back than the Andrew's father being Capt Andrew Gowans who died in Jan 1855, I have traced Margaret (Martin) back quite far to farming stock on the Isle of Bute and Ayr
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
I will gladly take any info you have about Andrew Gowans and Margaret Martin. Until yesterday I didn't even know Tom Gowans parents names. This is fantastic.
Thanks so much
Warmest Regards
Valerie
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Valarie
You can download his Birth Record from http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - it does cost but if you're smart you can get 5 records for your initial investment
His record is 1891 GOWANS THOMAS CRAWFORD M GREENOCK EAST /RENFREW 564/01 0953
This record should confirm Margaret And Andrew as his Parents.
So the Family is:
Andrew McCurdy Gowans only Son of Andrew Gowans and Prudence Bell b 01 Aug 1836 Greenock
married 14 Dec 1869 Rothsay Bute
Margaret Martin daughter of John Martin and Martha Orr b 21 Apr 1850 Rothsay, Bute
Children:
- Andrew b 01 Sep 1870 died 21 Apr 1874
- John b 26 Apr 1872 died Wandsworth England 1942
- David b 08 Dec 1873 died South Africa c 1943
- Martha Orr b 06 Nov 1875 died 1946 Hamilton, Scotland
- Andrew b 25 Nov 1877 died Boston 1913 (see earlier post)
- Margaret Martin b 24 Jan 1880
- James 08 May 1882
- Prudence Bell 18 May 1884 died c 1960 St John's
- Archibald 18 Nov 1886 died 10 Jul 1887
- Mary Orr 02 Feb 1889
- Thomas Crawford 08 Oct 1891
- Archibald Martin 10 Apr 1894
Andrew and Prudence were married 08 Mar 1824 in Greenock - according to her Tombstone (see my post more Impossible Gowans on the Renfrew page) he was 'Lost at Sea in January 1855 - I have not found any further information on capt Andrew - he was at Sea on the census records I have found for Prudence and Andrew Jnr. Prudence was the daughter of David Bell and Janet according to her death record 27 Mar 1869 Greenock -I haven't found her birth - she came from Irvine
John Martin 27 Mar 1869 Rothsay Bute son of Archibald Martin and Margaret Jamieson
married 27 Jul 1849 Martha Orr b 1826, Dalry Ayr daughter of James Orr and Margaret Muir
There is a wonderful site http://www.butesonsanddaughters.co.uk/ which you can find some history of the Martin's on - it's not totally accurate but you can get the gist search the farms for Martin.
Hmm Middle name Crawford maybe a clue to some of those records I cannot find
So what was Thomas's wife maiden name and when did they Marry? Can you please tellme their death dates as well
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
Thanks for this. You know a week ago I knew nothing about Tom Gowans other than he served in WWI, was born in Scotland and was a pretty crotchety old guy. Now I have tons of history.
So here's what I can fill in for you. Tom died in St. John's in 1977. Tom's wife (my GGrandmother) was Elizabeth Janes b. 22 Jan 1893 in St. John's, Newfoundland (NL), Canada. Around 1948 they moved to Montreal (actually Tom was already there so not sure when he went. Elizabeth followed after her son-in-law (my grandfather) remarried. She had been caring for her 3 little grandsons. Elizabeth died in Montreal in 1963 and is buried in Notre Dame des Neiges cemetery. Her headstone says she was born in 1894. Elizabeth's parents were James Janes b. Oct 1870 in Grate's Cove, NL and Mary Murray b. Aug 1875 in Cape Broyle, NL. So far I have no other details on them but I don't live in NL anymore so when I'm home I spend time at the Provincial Archives. Their records are not all online unfortunately.
Tom and Elizabeth had 6 children:
- Tommy b. 1915. Married Syvia King, had no children. Lived in Boston I think but has since passed away.
- Margaret (my grandmother) b. 1919, d. of TB 03 July 1941. She married my grandfather William Finney in 1937 and had three sons William (my father) in 1938, Kevin in 1939 and John in 1940.
- Martha b. 1921, d. of a barin aneurysm while swimming in 1937.
- Elizabeth (Bet) b. 1923. Married Mike Yetman, had 3 sons Jim, Mike and Robin and 2 daughters Dorothy and Gail. Bet is still living in St. John's.
- Rita b. 1926. Had a son Bobby Gowans. Later married Art Roberts and had 2 sons, Gary and Glenn. Rita is still living in Montreal.
- Andrew b. 1929. Married a woman named Rosa and lived his life in Florida. They did have children but I know no details. He has since passed away.
I know plenty of details about aunt Bet as I grew up knowing her and her children are my father's first cousins. Everyone else lived away from NL so I never met them.
Regards
Valerie
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Thanks will update my Records
I will be in Scotland later on this year -and intend to visit the Scotlands People Office to look up a whole lot of information. Will Look at Thomas's birth record whilst I am there
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Valerie,
My name is Charles. I am the youngest son of Andrew James Gowans. My Grandfather was Thomas Crawford Gowans, your Gr Grandfather. Andrew had 3 sons with his first wife Rosa and a daughter with his second wife Gladys. My brothers are Andrew James Gowans Jr. and Bradham Thomas Gowans. My sister is Barbara M. Gowans.
Thanks,
Charles
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Hi Charles
- I seem to be tracking down a lot of Gowans' through Rootschat.
Let me know if you are interested in Thomas Crawford's Ancestry - I did look at his birth recrd in Scotland and he is the child og of my Gr Gr Grandpa Andrew McCurdy Gowans
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
Yes I would like more information. He did live with us in Florida for a short amount of time when I was a small child. The only people I have met, from my fathers side of the family, is my Uncle Tom and Aunt Rita. I met Rits's son Glenn when they visited Florida once in the 70's and talked to my Aunt Bettyonce to inform her that my father had passed. I have not been able to reach any of them in the past 2 years and have been trying to make some connection. I am going to go through my uncle Toms old photo albums and if there are some old family pictures I will post them.
Thanks,
Charles
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Andrew
I have traced the Gowans's family back a couple of generations from Thomas Crawford - his grandpa Capt Andrew Gowans is proving very illusive - I think I found some shipping records in Kew for for him sailing between Greenock and Geelong - will have to go back next time I am in London and try again. I have traced back Margaret Martin a few more generations on the Isle of Bute. The key to my post on the Newfoundland board was a Gowans tombstone in Greenock up until I found that I was lost as to what happened to Andrew McCurdy - still don't know where he is buried as he doesn't appear on the Stonepics site mentioned above I presume it must be in St Johns. I am still puzzled as to why he moved there in his 60's
If you Personal Mail me your email address via this site I am happy to send you a gedcom file of what I have found
Regards
Gilllian